I am poly, he is not; He is poly, she is not...

I am Laura. I am married to Harry. Our BFF's are Bob and Wanda. We met Bob and Wanda in the "lifestyle". Bob and I were never very good swingers. We are both very picky and just don't connect with people as easily as Harry and Wanda do. I, more often than not, was the girl in the kitchen all night at parties. Bob was the guy on the couch, playing on his iPhone, waiting on Wanda. Then the 4 of us met and BOOM! Instant 4-way connection. But then..... Bob and I fell in love. None of us had discussed poly before and this was new to us all. It has been hard for Harry and Wanda to accept and support Bob and I but they try every day because they love us and see how much joy our love for each other brings us.

Wanda use to have a BF and for a while things ran a bit more smoothly. Asking for overnight date nights were a bit easier as she had someone to be with. Harry also had a GF for a brief time but he that has also ended. Now that Wanda and Harry have no one, they don't see the significance of continuing to support Bob and I are once a week, overnight date nights. Harry is much better about staying home alone but Wanda makes Bob feel guilty and then he won't leave her. Plus, while we are both empty-nesters, if both are home, we have nowhere to go.

I have suggested that Harry and Wanda could spend the night together, even if they are not romantically involved they are at least, dear friends and have slept together before, but that does not appeal to Wanda.

I am becoming increasingly resentful of the constant roadblocks and fight for our time together. Bob seems irritated too but more resigned to "take what we can get".

Here's the question-- Is anyone else out there involved in a poly relationship but their partner is not? And perhaps your poly partner's partner is also not involved? How do we negotiate with them without feeling guilty for our own happiness? How do we find time for one another when they both insist we be with them so they "aren't alone"?

I am growing increasingly resentful of them both. Thank you all for your advice.

Laura, hi. I remember your previous posts here. Unfortunately, it doesn't sound like things have changed much regarding the issues between you four.

While to some degree I understand your respective partners' sense of loneliness and jealousy/envy on those nights you and Bob spend together, it sounds like they are acting pretty self-pityingly (if that's a word) and hypocritical when it comes to the relationship that you two have developed.

I might not say that if they'd always been monogamous and were newly struggling with you and Bob being together... but the fact is, Harry and Wanda have both also been active in the swinging and poly lifestyles in the past. This is not totally new territory for them.

If they deemed such extra-marital relationships to be A-OK for themselves, back then, when they each had other partners and/or people they were sleeping with besides their spouses, on what basis can they now object to you and Bob continuing with your own relationship? Did they just expect you to stop/break up simply because they ended things with their OSOs?

Do Harry and Wanda still consider themselves to be polyamorous (individually, not together)? Because if so, and they're actively seeking other partners but just haven't found anyone yet, then their - especially Wanda's - behaviour just smacks of pettiness, envy and martyr-like pouting. She feels "left out" and alone/bored/jealous, so she's going to dig her heels in and make yours and Bob's time together difficult (?) That's pretty immature. Especially since you have proposed a partial solution which she refuses to contemplate for whatever reason.

On the other hand, Bob could be less passive and stand up for himself and the relationship more than he appears to be. Right now, if Wanda pouts... he gives in and stays home instead of laying out his boundaries firmly and telling her this is his/your time and sticking to your arrangement. How is that respectful to you... or ultimately to himself, since he also misses out on overnights with you, the other woman he purports to love.

Wanda and Harry clearly feel threatened by the deeper bond you and Bob share. You don't say whether either of them has actually ASKED you to end things... or if they intend to "close" and revert to monogamy and want you and Bob to do the same.

Whatever the case, they can't have it both ways (i.e. want to remain poly/open/swing etc themselves, yet make things difficult for you and Bob to conduct your own private relationship as you see fit. Certainly, limits and boundaries can be discussed and agreed upon, but then they need to be respected. There cannot be a tantrum every time you want to see each other. Both yourself and Bob will have to stand your ground if you wish to continue seeing each other without drama or conflict... OR else leave your respective spouses.

Now to answer you original question:

Lonlygirl64 said:

Here's the question-- Is anyone else out there involved in a poly relationship but their partner is not? And perhaps your poly partner's partner is also not involved?

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I am the hinge in a V, in which both my partners are monogamous with me. They used to be involved with each other in a FWB capacity, but haven't been since Jester and I first got together.

There did used to be some jealousy on both mine and Boho's part (we felt like we were competing for Jester's time and affections)... and some guilt on mine due to Jester ending the sexual relationship with Boho after he and I met.

I know Boho felt abandoned by him and left out for quite some time, even after she and I began our own relationship, which is why she pushed for a triad.

I tried to accept the triad dynamic, but ultimately found it very difficult especially as I knew it was mostly the result of Boho's feeling excluded, rather than genuine romantic feelings on the part of either J or B toward each other. The idea was dropped after some conflict and a lot of discussion, and everyone has settled into the status quo and seems happy. J and B both claim they don't want or need other sexual partners.

How do we negotiate with them without feeling guilty for our own happiness? How do we find time for one another when they both insist we be with them so they "aren't alone"?

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From what I remember, this uneasy situation has been going on for quite some time between you four.

It might be time for you and husband Harry to seek professional help in the way of couples counselling, if you haven't done so already. A poly-friendly therapist would be a start. Of course, you cannot force Wanda to go into therapy, but personally I think she and Bob need to address their issues in a similar fashion.

If you and Bob only want/ask for/expect one overnight a week, this does not seem at all unreasonable. If finding somewhere to go where you can have "alone time" in peace is a real issue... perhaps you could go out rather than stay in, and/or both chip in for a hotel room every other week, or even once a month if finances are tight.

FWIW, here is my opinion in case it helps you...

Assuming all adults consent to be in this model?

(Harry + [Poly-You) + (Poly-Bob] + Wanda)

Then it is on you and Bob to just go do your once a week date thing and LET Harry and Wanda figure out what to do with themselves.

So they don't like being alone. So what? Maybe a few times of being alone will light a fire under them to get out and start socializing with OTHER PEOPLE. See friends, take in a movie, join a club. If you and Bob keep "rescuing" them from this minor discomfort, they are never gonna do anything to learn it. All they seemed to do when they each had a BF/GF was "transfer" that dependency on to the other partner.

Actually all could have been doing it all along before you and Bob even started dating. Have nights out ON YOUR OWN. I go hang with my gal pals to go get a coffee on my own. My spouse plays in a band or does his video games on his own.

I don't think being "joined at the hip" is healthy in a marriage. What's there to talk about if always together every free moment? What happens if one gets widowed? Would have to learn the skill then, right? How to cope without the spouse being "automatic company."
Best to learn it now though. Because it would suck to learn to grief the loss of spouse AND have to learn this "be ok on my own thing" then like a "double load." Could learn it now and then only have to grief to deal with then (single load.)

I don't see this as a "poly problem" thing. I see it as a "healthy person / healthy marriage" thing.

How do we negotiate with them without feeling guilty for our own happiness?

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Stop negotiating. You ARE going out once a week. Period. That is not unreasonable. What can bend might be which day -- Either Fri or Sat or whatever other day. But you ARE going.

How do we find time for one another when they both insist we be with them so they "aren't alone"?

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Stop "finding time." You MAKE the time. Schedule it and stick with it.

You could let go of the rope and allow the spouses to be responsible for solving their alone thing. Either get comfortable being on their own, or go seek out other company once a week. That's not a horrible or unreasonable thing. And it is NOT your job to do for them.

You go spend time with Bob, and both of you allow the spouses at home to figure out how to spend their time.

You are not obligated to be a spouse's life raft person. You are their spouse, their lover, their friend... but NOT their life raft person.

Galagirl

Hello Laura,

I hope you won't mind if I reference your past threads. There are four so far:

• Husband wants me to end relationship (04-16-2018)
• First Harry, then Wanda (04-25-2018)
• Expectation of privacy (07-10-2018)
• I am poly, he is not; He is poly, she is not... (07-27-2018)

And here are the names/players as I understand them:

• OP = Laura (Lonlygirl64) = poly
• Husband = Harry (A) = swinger
• Boyfriend = Bob (T) = poly
• Wife = Wanda (G) = swinger

It seems to me that Harry has been a problem, but Wanda has been a bigger problem. It also seems like you stand your ground with Harry, while Bob caves in for Wanda. So Bob is part of the problem too. I also gather that in the beginning, the four of you had a swinging relationship and that didn't seem to be a problem, but then you and Bob fell in love and realized you were polyamorous, which proved to be a problem, and then Harry and Wanda broke up with their other partners, and that proved to be a bigger problem. Let me know if I've misinterpreted anything.

I think GalaGirl has the right idea. Bob needs to put his foot down and tell Wanda that he *will* be having an overnight with you once a week. Which day of the week is negotiable, but once a day has been decided, that's it. Of course you should say something similar to Harry, but I emphasize that less because I think you already *do* say something similar to Harry. Bob and Wanda are the weak links in this equation. Also, it's not like you can make Bob do his part. All you can do is ask Bob to do it. After that, the ball is in his court.

I don't know how to convince Bob to do his part. It seems that Wanda really knows how to pitch a fit, and she has the power to convince Bob to cave in. Bob gives her that power. Presumably he is trying to avoid conflict, he just wants to have peace at home. But like I said, you can ask him. You can point out to him that once a week isn't too much to ask. After that, the ball is in his court.

I know it is hard when your spouses are not poly like you are. They don't understand. You said that counseling helped Harry, would it help Wanda too? Just trying to think of any ideas that might help.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

I'm poly. My husband is monogamous. (So were the first two guys with whom I had relationships after I started doing poly, but neither of them is in my life at this point.) I'm fortunate in that Hubby is extremely self-contained. He prefers not interacting with people--including me, at times--and works quite a bit. He's happy having me spend time with other partners, because he knows he isn't able to meet my needs for interaction with and attention from a partner. He also, as best I can tell, doesn't experience jealousy or insecurity, so knowing his wife is off with another guy doesn't faze him in the slightest.

Not feeling guilty isn't really something anyone can advise you on how to do. Guilt is a feeling; feelings happen. Best to just acknowledge that you feel that way and it's okay to feel that way. But the choices you make in response to the guilt can be changed, and it sounds like that's what you and Bob need to work on. Both of you deserve happiness; guilt isn't a necessary emotion in this case. But it seems like both of you, him particularly, are choosing to allow the guilt to change what you do. Instead of Bob being more assertive with Wanda, he is choosing to spend less time with her, and to reinforce her behavior by staying with her.

I'm afraid I'm not going to be much help with how you can make more time together while your partners both insist on you staying home. My solution would be to say, "I'm sorry you're having a hard time with this, and I do want to support you. But I am not going to choose your jealousy over my happiness. Your emotions are up to you to handle; I'll help as much as I can, but I'm not going to handle your emotions for you."

I don’t know much about swinging, but it sounds like there are swinger’s parties of some kind? Maybe you could arrange for you and Bob to have an overnight together the evenings that Wanda and Harry go to swinging parties?

But I agree that it isn’t your job to make them comfortable all the time. They need to figure out their own social calendars.

I was married and mono for 30 years, we got divorced, and now I've been poly, with an anchor partner and other partners for both of us, for 9 years.

Never would I insist my husband or current partner spend every freaking night with me to prevent me feeling lonely!! That is not what a relationship requires, for me, nor for many people.

People, whether they are married or not, usually have some hobbies or interests their partner doesn't share. Or friends of their own. Or they travel for work.

My ex husband was a musician (as a hobby). He would have band practice once a week. I easily found things to do. Reading, TV, going out to eat or to a movie, shopping, exercise, housework, time with other friends or other family members.

And if my ex h was home when I was out doing my thing, he could read, play video games, watch TV, get together with friends for a pizza or beers, masturbate (LOL), practice his guitar, etc., etc.

For the last 9 years, my current partner and I have lived in a poly relationship. After my divorce I lived alone for 3 years, but saw my partner on the weekends. I had no issues on my time alone in my apartment. I cooked for myself, cleaned my apartment and decorated it nicely, I read, went online, went to the gym, entertained friends, went out to eat, dated, traveled to see my family or friends in other states, etc etc.

And we moved in together after 3 years. My partner has worked at a summer camp the majority of the summer for the past 9 years. I am left to my own devices. I keep busy gardening, reading, watching TV, doing my hobbies. I belong to Facebook groups pertaining to my hobbies, so I discuss them there. Until this year, we had a dog to take care of, so I'd walk her. I date other people but I do not always have a boyfriend. It's easier when I do, but I know the universe doesn't owe me a boyfriend.

For the last 5 years, my anchor partner has had a boyfriend. She goes to his house, on average, once a week for an overnight. I don't mind in the least. Lately she also might go to his house for a few hours mid week as well. I'm fine with it!

I like being alone. I like me time a lot. I think it's normal and healthy to have me time, to have free time to fill the way you want. I also like being with people, especially with my partner(s), but I keep things in balance.

Wanda seems co-dependent and Bob seems to think he "owes" it to her to entertain her 24/7. This is just not the case. He doesn't need to be there ALL the time to prevent her ever feeling a little lonely, a little bored. It's up to her to fill her time when she's left to her own devices. Depending on one person for EVERYTHING isn't healthy.

But this is a hinge problem. Bob needs to stand up for his rights. I know, however, that swinging is extremely couple-centric, whereas polyamory is more about independence. It's not easy to transition from swinging to polyamory, since the parameters are quite different.

I don't think Bob gets that.