A VERY BAD start!

I broke up with a married poly guy specifically because he finally admitted to me that the only reason he decided to "go poly" and pursue me was because his wife had another relationship and he wanted things to be even. Puke-worthy, that thinking. I'm not some prize to be won in a contest. I want to be pursued because a guy is turned on by being with me and getting to know me, not so he can feel like he's got some footing in a competition with his wife. Yuck!

Tit-for-tat jockeying has no place in loving relationships. Poly is not a race where the prize is sexual partners. There is no score to keep. It's about cultivating multiple fulfilling, satisfying, healthy, and loving relationships, just like one would cultivate multiple fulfilling, satisfying, and healthy friendships.
 
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Bella, it sounds like you just want to swing, and can't be bothered with the realities of being poly.

That's okay!

But just because your experiences with it have been negative, doesn't mean that it isn't awesome for some other people. You know, like monogamy for some :)

And I've seen really unhealthy weird things when I was in swinging circles. Some of those relationships functioned poorly, or ended badly too.

You say that poly relationships only seem to last a few years - but don't you get it, that's a feature of *relationships*! Most monogamous relationships don't last more than a few years either!

Anyway.

Swing if you want to. It sounds like you are very interested in exploring polysexuality.

It sounds like your wife is in love (or likes this new, repeated, emotional, close involvement, at any rate).

The horse has already bolted. You cannot change how she feels. She cannot change that she cheated and lied, and asked you to also lie.

I would not recommend going down the poly road, if it is just to make your wife think twice.

She shouldn't get to veto your partners, if you have no say in hers. (In a d/s context, that might be okay.)

Most poly women would O.M.G. run for the hills if they knew the situation and the strings and agreements your wife would put on them. No one wants to live in a stupid shitty little box that someone designed so that they would feel less threatened.

Poly women are really quite in demand, and have constraints on their time. Most just aren't going to make time for a new-to-poly couple who already have significant trust and communication issues, as well as simmering resentments. It's just a recipe for disaster :/

I was dating a guy for a year, and his girlfriend didn't like me. It was *shit*. He never invited me to anything, except *twice*, last minute. He could never stay the night. I never saw him unless I begged, or she was out of town. If I hadn't met her a couple of times, I would have imagined that he was cheating, from the way he behaved.

I wasn't allowed to sleep in their bed.
I never felt welcome in their place. I was only ever there three times. She was away each time.
They were closeted, and worked in the same (giant) organisation. I had to maintain their closet.

Fuck strings. Seriously.

These days, the primary partners of the people I'm involved with have to actually get on with me. Otherwise, fuck that noise, it's just not worth it. I suppose it *could* work - but it's just so damned unlikely!

Good luck, Bella. I do not envy you.
 
polyciraptor said:
Most monogamous relationships don't last more than a few years either!
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If we include every relationship ever started--every 'relationship' that got past a few dates--you could maybe make a case for this. However, if we're comparing, say, marriage, vs poly relationships, at least 50% of marriages last decades, until death. A minuscule percent of poly relationships last decades.
 
> If we include every relationship ever started--every 'relationship' that got past a few dates--you could maybe make a case for this. However, if we're comparing, say, marriage, vs poly relationships, at least 50% of marriages last decades, until death. A minuscule percent of poly relationships last decades.

I don't see why you shouldn't compare like with like.

Fall in love, it's good for a few years, then it ends. It's quite common in any relationship style.

Someone I know had two marriages, and both lasted 10 years. One was happy, one was not. The second one ended when their partner died.

Marriage doesn't actually make people more committed. It is supposed to be a sign of commitment, yes - but in practice it's just a piece of paper. It really just depends on the individuals, same as any other relationship.

Plus I would not count "not being divorced" as necessarily "successful".

In my swinging days, an extremely common story for why people got into it was that they had gotten out of an unhappy marriage and were now embracing their sexuality with a new partner (and they may or may not have married this new partner). Those marriages weren't exactly happy.

Or the couple that just had a swinging buddy they went to swinging parties with, and both of them were cheating on their spouses.

Or the sexless marriages where one person is not at all sexually interested in the other, and the other is getting more and more unhappy about the lack of sex.

An example someone gave (maybe George Carlin?) was something like: "what if you were married, but your spouse hated you for years, was having an affair, and was on the way to file for divorce, but they got killed in a car crash before they got there. Was your marriage a success? Till death do you part! Your spouse is dead! But they cheated on you, and they hated you, and they wanted to divorce you."
 
I'm not sure we (general "we") have any accurate statistics whatsoever on how long poly relationships last on average... because there are a lot of people who are in them who are closeted. The way I'm seeing it, the stats for poly relationships lasting might very well be the same for monogamous marriages, but given that many people can't or won't acknowledge being in those types of relationships, we have no real way to know.

But also, if you're quoting stats on monogamous *marriage*, which is a legal designation, you would, in order to make an accurate comparison, have to quote stats on legal polyamorous marriage--which, for the most part, isn't a thing.
 
I was married for 30 years. Living mono while poly at heart. We had good times, but often I was just staying with him out of a sense of duty, or fear of the unknown, or loyalty, or sheer stubbornness. I think many, if not most, mono married couples stay together not out of sheer loving bliss, but more as a social contract. Is that "success?"

Now that I am living poly, with my poly gf, yes, each of us have not had another partner for more than 2 1/2 years. But we are both happier than we've ever been, in a solid, sexy, happy, unconflicted relationship which includes the freedom to lust after and love others. So, is it a successful poly relationship, or not?
 
I've been in this V I'm in for about ten years, no end in sight.
 
An update,

Mrs Bella is still pushing for poly. She actually met with a friend of ours that we recently found out was poly and she gave Mrs Bella a couple of books on poly to read. The basic reaction has been that she prefers to make her own rules and not subscribe to some pre determined poly system.

What she is agreeing upon is my right to have an equal poly partner. The book suggested looking at people we already know first before going out onto the web or craigslist lol..

We came up with 4 candidates that we both know... and I have had sex with them... the past... also had good dialog and communication with all of them.... in the past.

Candidate #1 is a full on unicorn swinger. Very in demand and good looking and loves playing with us. We would approach her first as swinging, and then Mrs Bella would suggest we play alone anytime we want or go to parties etc. If a deeper connection develops from that.. then that would be ok and we would cross that bridge when we get there.

#2 is a past swinger that I know has a strong attraction for me and I for her. She got out of the lifestyle when her partner left the state. She has been longing to get back into the swinging lifestyle, but has been dating in the vanilla world with guys who are not really inclined for that stuff. I have stayed in touch with her and we do talk about things like this in a very positive way. Could be a possibility for a more intimate relationship.

#3 I actually met in a poly group years ago and we really hit it off. I tried to get her into our scene but that ended in a trainwreck because the new guy she was dating was a zero and my wife and I just nixed that idea in two seconds, also seeing her as a bad judgment of character. She is very attractive though, very smart, exotic and interesting for sure. It would be a bit awkward with re contacting.

#4 A close friend of #3 that I had sex with a couple times and we did have some contact afterward, but she was off into another relationship that was closed. Could be a meet for coffee after a few years and see where she is at.

All the other candidates we discussed are vanilla types that would take too much re programming for my patience etc. I would definitely want to be with someone experienced with group sex or comfortable with partner swapping at a minimum.
 
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Bella999 said:
All the other candidates we discussed are vanilla types that would take too much re programming for my patience etc.
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Seriously, dude? Have you read any of the responses in this thread? :confused:
You're not really looking for love, but hell bent on interviewing job candidates.
 
Yeah, your continuous comments on "vanilla" types (being very vanilla myself), is really insulting. I don't think you want advice, you just want others to comment on what you have to say. If you aren't really looking for help, there is always the blog section. . .
 
powerpuffgrl1969 said:
Yeah, your continuous comments on "vanilla" types (being very vanilla myself), is really insulting.
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Yes. Not only that, it's amazing what can happen when we are truly loving and genuinely open to another person. I always thought of myself as kink-averse until I met my current BF and together we are going to all kinds of new and wonderful places. Neither of us was "a vanilla type" looking for a "kink type" to fill a role, we were just each looking to meet another person we could potentially connected with on a deep level. If you're categorizing people at the outset and looking to fill slots, as you seem dead set on doing, Bella, you're going to continue finding disappointment after disappointment. You'll say that polyamory doesn't work, when in actuality you haven't gone anywhere near polyamory. What you're doing is moving chess pieces around. Polyamory means LOVE and love will not bloom when you're fearful of it and hyper focused on keeping so much control. Trading partners and NSA sex is fine and fun, but admit that this is what you're looking for. What you're after is not polyamory.

PS:
"Vanilla" generally refers to people who aren't into kink. I've never seen "vanilla" used (except in this thread) in reference to people who aren't into swinging or poly.
 
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FallenAngelina said:
Yes. Not only that, it's amazing what can happen when we are truly loving and genuinely open to another person. I always thought of myself as kink-averse until I met my current BF and together we are going to all kinds of new and wonderful places. Neither of us was "a vanilla type" looking for a "kink type" to fill a role, we were just each looking to meet another person we could potentially connected with on a deep level. If you're categorizing people at the outset and looking to fill slots, as you seem dead set on doing, Bella, you're going to continue finding disappointment after disappointment. You'll say that polyamory doesn't work, when in actuality you haven't gone anywhere near polyamory. What you're doing is moving chess pieces around. Polyamory means LOVE and love will not bloom when you're fearful of it and hyper focused on keeping so much control. Trading partners and NSA sex is fine and fun, but admit that this is what you're looking for. What you're after is not polyamory.

PS:
"Vanilla" generally refers to people who aren't into kink. I've never seen "vanilla" used (except in this thread) in reference to people who aren't into swinging or poly.
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I used to be involved in swinging and was active on a swinging forum for a number of years. It's common to hear people use vanilla to mean someone with conservative sexual views - i.e. not into group sex, partner swapping, and other things typical in swinging.
 
FallenAngelina said:
Seriously, dude? Have you read any of the responses in this thread? :confused:
You're not really looking for love, but hell bent on interviewing job candidates.
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The book we have been looking at talks about "swinging" as a close relative to poly and discourages the poly community from "looking down" at those lowly swingers.

I've been near poly a few times. Lived with two females that I had dated in the past in loving relationships. We ended up living together for 8 months and we were all having sex and there were emotions for sure. I think that qualifies as being close to poly.

As far as "vanilla"... it's a common term in the swinging world to describe those not open to group play or scared newbies.

In this world of overly politically correctness, I guess you can't describe people at all... not by skin color, religion, height, weight or any other description. But for some reason, we can describe animals by their looks however we choose.

Not voting for Trump, but America seems to be getting sick of over correctness I suppose.

I think it's ok for us to have our reality whatever that is. Seems everyone here is jumping up and down for acceptance, so not sure why all the discorded behavior here.
 
A lot of us have experience in the kink world, so to some of us "vanilla" is an insulting term. In kink/BDSM, "vanilla" doesn't always mean the same thing as it means in swinging, and sometimes it isn't a descriptor, it's an "I'm better than you, you ignorant moron" thing.

Having a background in swinging myself, though, I agree with the "you're interviewing job applicants" type of statements. While you might not be thinking this way, your comments here come across as though you're looking for a puzzle piece to fit into a specific slot in your life, rather than looking for a specific human being with their own thoughts and desires with whom to form a mutual connection.
 
AlwaysGrowing said:
It's common to hear people use vanilla to mean someone with conservative sexual views - i.e. not into group sex, partner swapping, and other things typical in swinging.
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OK, so I stand corrected. I'm not all that familiar with swing culture. My experience talking with poly people is that there isn't an equivalent way of demarking "us" and "them." Sexual fluidity and change to what one is open to seem to be much more assumed in poly circles. The constant references to "vanilla types" in this thread belies a belief that people are either monogamous or not, which is a very limited way of perceiving human sexuality. Bella, I'm not trying to say that you should be more "correct" in your language. I'm saying that your entire view of relationships and sexuality is very narrow and thus the root of the disappointment you seem to be finding in person after person. You don't seem to be interested in love at all.
 
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Re (from Bella999):
"She actually met with a friend of ours that we recently found out was poly and she gave Mrs. Bella a couple of books on poly to read."
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What are the book titles, if I may ask?
 
FallenAngelina said:
OK, so I stand corrected. I'm not all that familiar with swing culture. My experience talking with poly people is that there isn't an equivalent way of demarking "us" and "them." Sexual fluidity and change to what one is open to seem to be much more assumed in poly circles. The constant references to "vanilla types" in this thread belies a belief that people are either monogamous or not, which is a very limited way of perceiving human sexuality. Bella, I'm not trying to say that you should be more "correct" in your language. I'm saying that your entire view of relationships and sexuality is very narrow and thus the root of the disappointment you seem to be finding in person after person. You don't seem to be interested in love at all.
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Well, I love my wife and we have been very happily married for 10 years.
She had an affair and wants to try poly, so I am not going to be totally inflexible, probably because of our extensive swinging background. There surely is crossover, and we know LOTS of successful swingers who have been together and happily swinging for years. I know ZERO poly couples that have been together more than a year. We hang out in the progressive art scene etc... so it's an area where a lot of "open minded" creative types flourish, and I hear about poly all the time.... but don't see any happy people practicing it. Just speaking from my experience and being as objective as possible.

As far as possible candidates for me... it seems like a fair enough word. Love is far from a guarantee, just as a candidate in an election is far from being guaranteed election.

Dating is a long haul prospect. I know you use the acronym NRE. We used to call that infatuation! It's silly most of the time and people often make horrible decisions based upon the euphoric delusion. I'm too old for that stuff. I look for a give and take that makes sense with the complete awareness that love is earned SLOWLY OVER TIME!

I've only assumed that there has been a significant interest in this thread due to the number of views. It certainly isn't going "viral" but just giving an update here and there for those who might be interested or have been in a similar situation.

Is that ok? or should I boot off out of here?
 
Bella999 said:
.....I hear about poly all the time.... but don't see any happy people practicing it........
Is that ok? or should I boot off out of here?
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We see people come to this forum every day who are conflicted about poly, so the subject of your thread isn't all that novel here. I rather imagine this thread is getting views because of the unfolding drama in this discussion, to which I seem to be contributing.
Whether it's "OK" for you to keep posting, that's entirely up to you. Certainly you're free to talk with us or not. I'm not sure what you're asking and why you're here. You're mistrustful of the poly concept, see no happy poly relationships and you don't at all seem to be interested in polyamory for yourself. You don't seem to be interested in the forum members' perspectives and presumably, that's what people come to a forum like this for - to discuss and learn. What do you want from this discussion?
 
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