Polyamory Study

PolyResarcher

New member
Hello all! We are currently recruiting participants for a study on the structure and function of polyamorous relationships. Details of the study can be found below:

Study Name: Exploring the Attachment Hierarchies within Polyamorous Relationships
Eligibility: Men and Women over the age of 18 who are in a committed relationship with at least two individuals.
Duration: Approx. 30 mins

If you are eligible and would like to participate please follow the below link to Amazon Mechanical Turk:

https://www.mturk.com/mturk/preview?groupId=3XCMB0010Q1VT671BDKLI56YXBXP3U

Please note that in order to participate you will need a free Amazon Mechanical Turk worker account.
 
Hello all! We are currently recruiting participants for a study on the structure and function of polyamorous relationships. Details of the study can be found below:

Study Name: Exploring the Attachment Hierarchies within Polyamorous Relationships

Structure and function?

Huh?

What?

Attachment Hierarchies?

Oh, sheesh.

Nevermind.
 
Is it just me, or does the notion that polyamorous relationships have a "structure and function" a bit odd?

I'm kind of wondering if perhaps as soon as we're contemplating loving relationships in terms of "structure and function" we've already begun to lose track of what loving human relating is all about.

I don't think of my loving relationships in terms of structure and function at all. How about you?
 
Hello all! We are currently recruiting participants for a study on the structure and function of polyamorous relationships. Details of the study can be found below:

I don't suppose you could provide us with a few more details, especially for those of us who don't have a Mechanical Turk account and wouldn't otherwise sign up for one?

In particular, is this a university study? And how/where will it be reported?

/Adam
 
Is it just me, or does the notion that polyamorous relationships have a "structure and function" a bit odd?

I'm kind of wondering if perhaps as soon as we're contemplating loving relationships in terms of "structure and function" we've already begun to lose track of what loving human relating is all about.

I don't think of my loving relationships in terms of structure and function at all. How about you?

Well, actually, I do, and judging from a lot of the chat on the forum so do others- especially when it comes to the 'structures' bit. How we organise our relationships is constantly discussed and a technical language has evolved to aid us in that discussion- V, hinge, quad etc. 'Function' is there also. It may be a little less immediately obvious but as soon as anyone says something like "I am poly because..." they are discussing function.

/Adam
 
Well, actually, I do, and judging from a lot of the chat on the forum so do others- especially when it comes to the 'structures' bit. How we organise our relationships is constantly discussed and a technical language has evolved to aid us in that discussion- V, hinge, quad etc. 'Function' is there also. It may be a little less immediately obvious but as soon as anyone says something like "I am poly because..." they are discussing function.

/Adam

Sure, and some folks talk about relationships in terms of "hierarchies" as well, while others strongly prefer not to (and, I think, for good reasons). I guess my worry is that when we place "structure and fuction" at the center of our discourse we will tend to lose track of crucial other things. I worry that our "map" will displace those other things, that a strong emphasis on structure and (especially) function of loving relationships may lead us to construct what may be called "relationship mechanics" -- machines, mechanisms..., which may displace crucial insights about loving relationships which don't fit into a mechanical conceptual framework. As soon as folks decide what the "function" of loving relationships should be ... well, that will worry me.

Perhaps I worry about some possible forms of reductionism here. Rarely has any form of reductionism added to human wisdom.

And I worry about the possibility that some folks may begin thinking of their relationships in terms of some singular "function" that relationships are supposed to serve or fulfill. Then persons will come to be treated "functionally"-- and that seems a bit odd, if not frightening.
 
We are currently recruiting participants
Hi. Too bad the link doesn't work (for me at least), offering me a list of 2,000 HITs -- no faintest idea what the hell THOSE are or what they have to do with your study.

Speaking of which, it'd be (IMNSHO) a Really Good Idea to begin by mentioning which university/organization/church you're with, & whom we can contact to verify that the project has been properly vetted to ensure that the rights & privacy of participants will be protected.

>>sigh<<

TO THE AUDIENCE -- heya, gang. Sorry for being terse, but for anyone who thinks that polyamory has "made it," seems that we're still just a curiosity, eh? The proposed subject isn't uninteresting (he said, speaking as a former sociology major), but if it's useful, then maybe it's the polyfolk who should be writing this stuff, after 30 years.

Is GLBT still under the microscope, or have they finally escaped?:D Seems like Wicca finally got away.
 
It feels like the methodology of this survey is wrong. You are starting with an assumption (relationships require a form of attachment structure) that is an opinion at best, an accusation at worst. Then you request answers (identify the attachment hierarchies within your relationship) which are only supposed to reinforce the claim you've made.

Furthermore, your survey is created in a way which is unappealing to those whose opinions you'd actually want. 30 minutes? Really? When I was last in a committed poly relationship I was sleeping four hours a night and still didn't feel I had enough time in the day. I'm a bit surprised folks have time to post here sometimes. Most people in a plural relationship don't have 30 minutes worth of time to spend to grind a few Amazon Mechanical Turk points.

Lastly, if you're going to study forms of attachment, wouldn't it be better to ask people in groups rather than singly? My view of my last committed poly relationship would have been totally different from that of the other two people in it (one because she was lying to us). That's rather a big deal for any study.

My suggestion: consider group interviews, if your organization can afford that. You'll get a smaller N but deeper and more robust data.
 
Re (from OP):
"Please note that in order to participate you will need a free Amazon Mechanical Turk worker account."

This is what made me decide to not even look at the study.

Re:
"Eligibility: Men and Women over the age of 18 who are in a committed relationship with at least two individuals."

Due to this, I probably couldn't participate anyway. I am one leg of a V and only platonically committed to the other leg.
 
Is it just me, or does the notion that polyamorous relationships have a "structure and function" a bit odd?

I'm kind of wondering if perhaps as soon as we're contemplating loving relationships in terms of "structure and function" we've already begun to lose track of what loving human relating is all about.

I don't think of my loving relationships in terms of structure and function at all. How about you?

What are you, some kind of hippie? LOL

All relationships have structure and function. Does not seem odd to me at all. Having structure and function does not equate to absence of love. The thought that it might is what I find a bit odd, but then I am a very analytical type.
 
As to the use of the word "hierarchies", I don't think they are assuming that every polycule has rigid hierarchies. It seems more like they are trying to ascertain if hierarchies occur. I think it is an interesting subject.

I think hierarchies occur naturally. I think a purely non-hierarchical polycule is probably pretty rare, assuming there is commitment in two or more relationships. I would love to see the results.
 
What are you, some kind of hippie? LOL

All relationships have structure and function. Does not seem odd to me at all. Having structure and function does not equate to absence of love. The thought that it might is what I find a bit odd, but then I am a very analytical type.

Well, leaving aside speculations and guesses as to what the OP intended by the words, I can try and say why I tend to object to this notion of structure and function in relationships.

It helps if I begin by using the phrase "the structure and function of relationships." Obviously, there can be many structures: dyadic, triadic, etc. But what could the phrase "the function" (of relationship) refer to? The phrase seems to suggest that there is a single, commonly agreed upon "function" (roughly synonymous with purpose) which loving relationships have.

I don't think many people think of their loving relationships in this way (having a singular or central purpose or function), and even more importantly I don't think there is anything like a common agreement on what such a "function" would be. Let anyone who doubts me offer their proposed "function" and see what happens here.

Some things have somewhat clear functions. E.g., money (to facilitate exchange), brooms (to sweep dirt and debris).

Other things have multiple functions, such as hands (to touch and to grasp), tables (to allow food to be set out in serving containers and plates and bowls but also to set a book down upon for reading or to work a jigsaw puzzle upon or build a model airplane upon...). Beds (sleeping and..., well, you know ... eating).

I don't know of anyone who thinks of their loving relationships as having a central "function," however. Or who thinks of relationships in terms of function. We enjoy being with our partners, at least most of the time. Is the "function" then enjoyment? Some may say the function of loving relationships is to keep a mating pair of homo sapiens together long enough to raise children into young adulthood. But -- obviously -- such a proposed function would not be comprehensive or universal.

We could say that each relationship grouping has its own function, and need no reference to a supposed general function for relationships. But ... why? Why speak of relationships in terms of function at all?
 
I think hierarchies occur naturally. I think a purely non-hierarchical polycule is probably pretty rare, assuming there is commitment in two or more relationships. I would love to see the results.

I know there are some polycules in which all of the participants prefer a hierarchical structure -- "primary, secondary, tertiary" -- for various reasons. And there is no doubt that doing so often provides necessary or useful clarity about roles which works for all involved.

And yet hierarchy becomes highly problematic for other groups of people.

Hierarchy is basically a form of rank, I think. And I think ANY discussion of hierarchy in a polyamorous relationships context should emphasize that there are different particular things which are or can be ranked. A group of people can choose to rank some things while not ranking others -- but there are often connections between things we'd prefer to rank and those which we prefer not to.

Here's a list (not comprehensive) of things people often rank in poly groupings.:


  • amount of time spent with partners
  • amount of responsibility and/or authority toward children
  • use of finances
  • degree of involvement and/or commitment
  • degree and/or kind of love, affection
  • etc.

Obviously, some of these things make very good sense to rank, sometimes -- most especially when not everyone is sharing a household together (which I suspect is much more common than having all share a household).

And it only gets more complex (and sometimes complicated) from here.

Some prefer to have amount of love/affection rank differently from one companion to another -- and that works for everyone involved. Some want what may be called "light relationships" (few or little expectation/s of time spent, involvement, commitment...) which can work beautifully. Others will feel slighted and excluded by ranking as less important than the domestic partner or spouse (for example). Sometimes the whole group will be decidedly opposed to the very hint or notion of rank/hierarchy in terms of degree or even kind of love and affection. Such hierarchy is anathema to some. And for good reason! Both groupings have good reasons.

I hope that the endless distinctions which do and can unfold from here are obvious enough that they don't all need to be articulated. It should be fairly obvious, for example, that problems can arise when the grouping agrees to non-hierarchy (ranking) with regard to affection, love, involvement, commitment but partakes of ranking in time spent together, for example.

To use a particular example, let's say Sarah and Sam and Sue are in a domestic triad as spice (i.e., spouses). Sam meets John and these two guys eventually fall in love and become lovers. But John lives four blocks away and is not part of the domestic partnership. Sarah and Sam and Sue believe in non-hierarchy with regard to love, so accept John as part of the group/family/or whatever.

Obviously John has something like equal status with regard to how much time he may naturally expect to spend with Sam, right? In other words, he simply does not naturally rank lower in terms of claim to time spent with Sam. And my point is that there are certain basic implicit (implicities?) which connect the different things we may choose to rank and which we may choose not to rank. And these relate to a certain kind of what may be called "emotional common sense" (a phrase I chose to use instead of the more common term "emotional intelligence").

Sometimes ranking is highly offensive. Other times it's pragmatic and utterly non-offensive. And it's all very tricky when folks miss what is implicit in the kinds of relationships which are unfolding. If, for example, Jack and Jill are living together as spouses ... and they meet Hannah ... and they're way into Hannah, and eventually they all move into the same house together as something like a family.... Well, things could be really ugly if Jack and Jill treated Hannah as of a lower rank than the original, married couple in the household. Unless Hannah really preferred to be lower ranking in that particular way -- such as responsibility and authority toward Jack and Jill's teenaged son. Imagine, though, Hannah being ranked lower by Jack and Jill with regard to time spent together? That could get ugly fast if Hannah prefers to have no ranking there.

And this gets to the main point I have to make. Non-hierarchy is simply the absence of rank / ranking. It is not a matter of attributing equal rank. It's the absence of rank altogether -- at least it is such for those who relate in this way (non-hierarchically). So the main point I want to make is that hierarchy / rank does not necessarily "naturally arise" at all.

When we think that rank "naturally arises," as a matter of course in human relationships, well that's an anthropological speculation, not a fact.
 
And this gets to the main point I have to make. Non-hierarchy is simply the absence of rank / ranking. It is not a matter of attributing equal rank. It's the absence of rank altogether -- at least it is such for those who relate in this way (non-hierarchically). So the main point I want to make is that hierarchy / rank does not necessarily "naturally arise" at all.

When we think that rank "naturally arises," as a matter of course in human relationships, well that's an anthropological speculation, not a fact.

Having not done any in depth study, I agree it is speculation on my part, hence the qualifier "I think".

I do disagree that non-hierarchy cannot mean attributing equal rank, unless you mean that equal rank is equal to no rank at all.

What I was getting at was that I believe we do attribute rank to our relationships even if it is subconsciously.
 
Well, leaving aside speculations and guesses as to what the OP intended by the words, I can try and say why I tend to object to this notion of structure and function in relationships.

It helps if I begin by using the phrase "the structure and function of relationships." Obviously, there can be many structures: dyadic, triadic, etc. But what could the phrase "the function" (of relationship) refer to? The phrase seems to suggest that there is a single, commonly agreed upon "function" (roughly synonymous with purpose) which loving relationships have.

I don't think many people think of their loving relationships in this way (having a singular or central purpose or function), and even more importantly I don't think there is anything like a common agreement on what such a "function" would be. Let anyone who doubts me offer their proposed "function" and see what happens here.

Some things have somewhat clear functions. E.g., money (to facilitate exchange), brooms (to sweep dirt and debris).

Other things have multiple functions, such as hands (to touch and to grasp), tables (to allow food to be set out in serving containers and plates and bowls but also to set a book down upon for reading or to work a jigsaw puzzle upon or build a model airplane upon...). Beds (sleeping and..., well, you know ... eating).

I don't know of anyone who thinks of their loving relationships as having a central "function," however. Or who thinks of relationships in terms of function. We enjoy being with our partners, at least most of the time. Is the "function" then enjoyment? Some may say the function of loving relationships is to keep a mating pair of homo sapiens together long enough to raise children into young adulthood. But -- obviously -- such a proposed function would not be comprehensive or universal.

We could say that each relationship grouping has its own function, and need no reference to a supposed general function for relationships. But ... why? Why speak of relationships in terms of function at all?

Of course structures and functions come in many forms. The OP used the plural of hierarchy, which indicates to me several forms. The only universal truth to be found is that every relationship has a function of some sort.

I doubt if people think of "love" as a chemical brain function, but it is. It is way more romantic to think of it in terms of the heart, but all the heart does is pump blood. Love is all in our brain.
 
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... but all the heart does is pump blood. Love is all in our brain.

The organ known as the physical heart does "pump" blood, yes. But much research suggests that the heart is far more involved in our human consciousness than this pump story suggests. Also, "the heart" can refer to a generalized region of the human body in the chest, a region of the body which in most all traditional cultures is associated with feelings, and especially the feeling of connection, "warmth," affection and love.

Basically, since William Harvey (1578 - 1657) "the first known to describe completely and in detail the systemic circulation and properties of blood being pumped to the brain and body by the heart" (Wikipedia), modern people have tended to think of the heart exclusively as a sort of pump, while every other culture known to humanity (basically) has thought otherwise --which I can document.

I don't know about their research in any detail (nor have a subjected it to any thoroughgoing analysis), but an organization called HeartMath Institute has published some research which may show that the heart is much more than merely a pumping organ. It may be worthy of further investigation.

https://www.heartmath.org/research/

There is also a good deal of other research suggesting that the brain is not the only "center" of conscious activity in the human body. The gut, head and heart (called the three dan t'ian in traditional Chinese culture) have always been considered such centers throughout world history and cultures ... and pre-history -- and contemporary science may have confirmed this to some extent. There are significant "nerve plexi" in these three locations with, apparentely, documented connections to one another.
 
I do disagree that non-hierarchy cannot mean attributing equal rank, unless you mean that equal rank is equal to no rank at all.

It *can* mean equal rank, but need not. The notion of rank need never enter into it. Rank is not a feature of naked nature, but is the invention of minds. Rank is not real in the same way gravity or sunlight or water are real (because these things continue to exist when we disbelieve in them). It is the imaginative construction of minds living in particular cultures.

To disbelieve in hierarchy or rank in human relationships is NOT TO PARTICIPATE in these things, to opt out of this way of relating. Seen through as fictional, rank evaporates into thin air and is gone.

It is entirely possible for people to engage in life fully without thought of rank, though it may be impossible for certain modern people whose minds and culture are saturated with this particular imaginary construct.
 
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It is entirely possible for people to engage in life fully without thought of rank, though it may be impossible for certain modern people whose minds and culture are saturated with this particular imaginary construct.

Again, River, you need to study your history. "All men are created equal" was a beyond radical notion in 1776 and continues to be, as the class system is alive and well everywhere. However, the concept of individual equality is an extremely "modern" notion. History shows us nothing but rank, hierarchy, rigid class structure and scripted social roles - throughout all cultures and centuries. Humans have never known such freedom of thought and social mobility as we see today. Truly, study up on other "cultures" and history before you malign the perceived shortcomings of current day Western countries. You'll find (and hopefully appreciate) that we enjoy a shocking variety and breadth of freedoms never before known in the entire history of humankind.
 
Again, River, you need to study your history. "All men are created equal" was a beyond radical notion in 1776 and continues to be, as the class system is alive and well everywhere. However, the concept of individual equality is an extremely "modern" notion. History shows us nothing but rank, hierarchy, rigid class structure and scripted social roles - throughout all cultures and centuries. Humans have never known such freedom of thought and social mobility as we see today. Truly, study up on other "cultures" and history before you malign the perceived shortcomings of current day Western countries. You'll find (and hopefully appreciate) that we enjoy a shocking variety and breadth of freedoms never before known in the entire history of humankind.

Hi Karen -

I am not ignorant of history (and pre-historical as well as non-civilized peoples).

  • Anatomically modern humans evolved from archaic humans in the Middle Paleolithic, about 200,000 years ago. The emergence of anatomically modern human marks the dawn of the subspecies Homo sapiens sapiens, i.e. the subspecies of Homo sapiens that includes all modern humans.

  • Around 3500 BC, the first civilizations began to appear in the Middle East. So civilized people have only been around for about 5,500 years out of the life of our species' 200,000 years. During that 5,500 years, non-civilized people have existed all over the world as well.

  • 200,000 minus 5,500 = 194,500 , so for the combined history and prehistory of our species we have been overwhelmingly a non-civilized species. Only for a tiny percentage of our presence on this planet have there been civilized humans.

  • Much evidence from anthropology strongly suggests that hierarchical relationships are mostly a product of civilization and that non-civilized people did not generally live in hierarchically arranged societies.


  • What we (mainly) refer to as "history" is the history of civilized people, who have from the beginning arranged themselves into hierarchies (rank). But "history" is not the record of the totality of the human experience, and tells us relatively little about whether people have or can dwell together without hierarchy (rank).
 
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During the twentieth century, anthropologists discovered and studied dozens of different hunter-gatherer societies, in various remote parts of the world, who had been nearly untouched by modern influences. Wherever they were found--in Africa, Asia, South America, or elsewhere; in deserts or in jungles--these societies had many characteristics in common. The people lived in small bands, of about 20 to 50 persons (including children) per band, who moved from camp to camp within a relatively circumscribed area to follow the available game and edible vegetation. The people had friends and relatives in neighboring bands and maintained peaceful relationships with neighboring bands. Warfare was unknown to most of these societies, and where it was known it was the result of interactions with warlike groups of people who were not hunter-gatherers. In each of these societies, the dominant cultural ethos was one that emphasized individual autonomy, non-directive childrearing methods, nonviolence, sharing, cooperation, and consensual decision-making. Their core value, which underlay all of the rest, was that of the equality of individuals.

excerpted from
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...r-gatherers-maintained-their-egalitarian-ways
 
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