I've been having relationship issues after my gf came out poly to me

CTF, As someone in a very similar situation as your wife but without quite as many things to handle, I was certain I could not be in love with my online best friend. Sure I thought I was spending more time than I ought hanging out online with him, and other people in our crowd, but I had not had a chance to hang out much with friends just having fun, for years.

More basically, I love my husband, he is a phenomenon, it was just not possible I could be in love with someone else at the same time. After all, he was someone I had never met and, from the pictures I could find online, not someone whose looks attracted me. My husband thought I was in love, mentioned it to me, and started trying to process that idea well before I could even think it. I believed, and I told him, I did not think it could possibly be the case. If the relationship had been interrupted at that point I would still have said my good friend might be in love with me but that it was just platonic on my part. Is it possible she was in a similar in-between place when she came to you to let you know she was telling her online friends she loved them? Has she also cut off contact with the other online friends she told you she loved?

Leetah


And honestly, that's what I'm hoping was the case between them. Although, the signs point to that not exactly being the case. In any event, one of the bigger reasons that I felt that the contact be cut off, was due to the extremely disrespectful manner in which I was treated by those two individuals. Essentially, I was told by both of them, that things change, she's an adult, and I just have to deal with this. One suggested that my wife leave me, and the other kept hounding me to allow her to sleep with others (which he never admitted to include himself, but I'd eventually have to be "fair", right?). Oh but that's right... It was "platonic"... Can't imagine why I would be so confused.

As for the other three, she hasn't severed contact with them. And two of them don't even know that she has/had any such feelings for them. Which is also confusing, she does claim to be sexually attracted to the women, but won't admit to be attracted to the men... But still maintains that there was only one of the women that she actually wanted to sleep with. But in all, I don't have a problem with those three. Not because of their gender, but because they never monopolized all of her time, nor did they show an ounce of disrespect for us, or our marriage.
 
@ CTF ... I am going to compare a hypothetical with reality, and see if you agree with me.

Hypothetically, if your wife had merely approached you and said, "I'd like to take on a poly partner," and you said, "Only if we get divorced," and she said, "Alright then I won't do it" ... that wouldn't have been so bad by itself, would it?

In reality, she didn't just ask for your consent, she actually did behavior that favored another man over you. She left you to grieve alone the loss of your father while she gamed online with the other guy all day and way into the wee hours of the night.

Would you agree that that behavior on her part (rather than merely asking for poly) is what wounded you so deeply? for it is clear to me that you were deeply wounded.
 
@ CTF ... I am going to compare a hypothetical with reality, and see if you agree with me.

Hypothetically, if your wife had merely approached you and said, "I'd like to take on a poly partner," and you said, "Only if we get divorced," and she said, "Alright then I won't do it" ... that wouldn't have been so bad by itself, would it?

In reality, she didn't just ask for your consent, she actually did behavior that favored another man over you. She left you to grieve alone the loss of your father while she gamed online with the other guy all day and way into the wee hours of the night.

Would you agree that that behavior on her part (rather than merely asking for poly) is what wounded you so deeply? for it is clear to me that you were deeply wounded.


For the most part, yes, I agree. It's true that I'm deeply wounded from this. It's true that I have trouble comprehending even how she could have such a desire. Not being poly, the whole concept of it is completely foreign & baffling. No offense, and certainly no judgement to the poly folks, but I simply do not understand that mindset at all.

The biggest part, I have to say, that hurts me, is how it seemed like she had her plans already in place should I happen to say yes. But even if she hadn't spoken with him before telling me, just knowing that there was someone in mind already, gives me the feeling that she felt that I wasn't good enough, causing her to explore the supplemental partner(s).

Keep in mind, that we've discussed the concept of poly in the abstract at various times over the years. More recently, the topic had come up more times since she began talking to him, than at any other time since we've been together. And each & every time, I made it as clear as possible, that I don't have a problem with people who choose to live the poly life, but it's not my cup of tea, and I would never be willing to entertain it within our marriage.

To answer the first part, yes, there might be an area in which I could have accepted her having that inclination. However, I don't think that I'd be alright with her wanting to "take on a poly partner". Maybe in the abstract, if there was no one in particular in mind, then I suppose I'd could live with that in concept, but again, her wanting to have a partner, still suggests , by definition, that I am simply not enough. If she were to approach me with such a request, my simple would be "What can I do to be enough for you in order to prevent that?".
 
Sounds like the feeling of not being enough (for her) is the worst part of it.
 
Sounds like the feeling of not being enough (for her) is the worst part of it.

Well, I'd have to say it's more than a "feeling". When you look at the situation, it's obvious that I wasn't/am not enough. If I was, then there would be no inclination to even consider an extramarital relationship.

The point is, that it's time we call it for what it is. I know that the poly side dismisses the suggestion of their partner not being enough, but for the life of me, I cannot understand why that is. By very definition, if someone/something is "enough", then the desire for more is simply not there.

And I don't know if that's the worst part of it. I honestly struggle with what the worst part of this whole situation is. It's certainly a key element, that's for sure. I feel like a bit of a failure if I am not living up to my wife's expectations, despite my striving to do so. But her having someone on the sidelines ready to go, on the hopes that I'd say yes to this, is also extremely disturbing. What's more, is the disturbing images I have when it comes to even thinking about her sleeping with someone else. It's difficult to explain to someone who has no problem seeing their partner sleeping with another, or even knowing about it, but it's a haunting visual that hurts in an indescribable way.
 
The point is, that it's time we call it for what it is. I know that the poly side dismisses the suggestion of their partner not being enough, but for the life of me, I cannot understand why that is. By very definition, if someone/something is "enough", then the desire for more is simply not there.

I'm very much in agreement with this. My now X BF kept insisting there was nothing missing in his marriage, that they were blissfully happy--even as he told me she had no interest in a number of things that were deeply important to him, that she only wanted him as a date at parties if there was no one else, etc.

For a year and a half after I broke up with him, he kept doing everything in his power to draw me in, always starting with a hook--something I really needed or wanted help with, and quickly working his way back to talking to me about all these inner, heartfelt things that were so vital to him, but that she had no interest in or time for.

When I'd finally call him on what was quite obvious--why don't you talk to her about these things?--he'd get indignant and insist he didn't NEED to talk about these things.

It became like trying to function in a fun house full of crazy mirrors, looking at something and being told that's not what it was. I can't imagine any reason anyone would come back to me over and over to talk about these things if he didn't have some need to do so.

But admitting that didn't fit the story line, so he'd get angry at me for saying, sure seems like you need this in your life.
 
I'm very much in agreement with this. My now X BF kept insisting there was nothing missing in his marriage, that they were blissfully happy--even as he told me she had no interest in a number of things that were deeply important to him, that she only wanted him as a date at parties if there was no one else, etc.

For a year and a half after I broke up with him, he kept doing everything in his power to draw me in, always starting with a hook--something I really needed or wanted help with, and quickly working his way back to talking to me about all these inner, heartfelt things that were so vital to him, but that she had no interest in or time for.

When I'd finally call him on what was quite obvious--why don't you talk to her about these things?--he'd get indignant and insist he didn't NEED to talk about these things.

It became like trying to function in a fun house full of crazy mirrors, looking at something and being told that's not what it was. I can't imagine any reason anyone would come back to me over and over to talk about these things if he didn't have some need to do so.

But admitting that didn't fit the story line, so he'd get angry at me for saying, sure seems like you need this in your life.


I completely agree. I imagine, that it's difficult to tell someone that they're not enough for you without coming off sounding insensitive, or shallow, or selfish, or what have you. And I'm not even saying that someone is in the wrong for feeling like one specific person is not enough, no matter what the reason(s) happen to be. But if I'm one person, and my wife feels tat she needs more than one person, then she's not doing me any favors by telling me something that isn't true. Sure, no one want their feelings to be hurt, but being untruthful only creates incessant confusion & makes matters worse in the process. If "ethical poly" is centered around open, and honest communication, then all is lost if everyone simply trying to play nice to spare feelings at the expense of the truth.
 
I may be totally off base with this but I can't help thinking that your "enoughness" is perhaps a sort of side issue. With all the serious, somewhat scary,emotional and physical health things your wife has going on right now she may not be in a position to gauge what she wants or needs. You might want to try to set it aside for now as you may be torturing yourself over a will-o-wisp.

I found this blog helpful in getting perspective on my loved ones' depression and how it affects relationships. The writer is a man but it seems to me the issues he discusses are not exclusive to a male perspective and remind me of your situation with your wife.
http://www.storiedmind.com/men-depression/the-longing-to-leave-2/

Leetah
 
What isn't rational?

Expecting one person to "be enough."

This is where the disconnect is coming in for me. I don't view relationships as "filling my need for _____." People are not in my life to fill voids or provide me with my needs any more than I am in their lives to fill voids or provide needs for them. I am fully capable of providing for my own needs. And, attempting to use people to fill voids in my life will work just about as well as using chemical substances to fill those voids. It's my job to ensure that I am whole and complete in myself and it's their jobs to do the same for themselves.

For me, relationships are about sharing myself with others and other people sharing themselves with me. I'm not filling needs or holes with people. I'm just sharing with them. It just so happens that I like to share with many and you prefer to share with one :) I don't need to share sexual and emotional intimacy with anyone but I chose to share either/both with people whom I connect with and I don't wish to have a limit set on a relationship before I even start it.

ETA: that last line and also that I do acknowledge that people sometimes use poly to fill that void...just as they do alcohol, escapism, etc, etc.
 
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Well, I'd have to say it's more than a "feeling". When you look at the situation, it's obvious that I wasn't/am not enough. If I was, then there would be no inclination to even consider an extramarital relationship.

No, it is a feeling based on your concept of what a relationship should be.

The point is, that it's time we call it for what it is. I know that the poly side dismisses the suggestion of their partner not being enough, but for the life of me, I cannot understand why that is. By very definition, if someone/something is "enough", then the desire for more is simply not there.

And I don't know if that's the worst part of it. I honestly struggle with what the worst part of this whole situation is. It's certainly a key element, that's for sure. I feel like a bit of a failure if I am not living up to my wife's expectations, despite my striving to do so. But her having someone on the sidelines ready to go, on the hopes that I'd say yes to this, is also extremely disturbing. What's more, is the disturbing images I have when it comes to even thinking about her sleeping with someone else. It's difficult to explain to someone who has no problem seeing their partner sleeping with another, or even knowing about it, but it's a haunting visual that hurts in an indescribable way.

I feel bad for you because you define yourself in terms of others. You base your entire self worth on whether you are "enough" for somebody? I cannot even fathom living like that.

I struggled with the thought of my wife having sex with another guy. There were two reasons for that. One, I was very possessive. Two, I was insecure. Once I recognized my two faults I dealt with them.

I think anyone who has made a transition from mono to poly has gone through some of this stuff. You really aren't pointing out anything new here. The difference is how we dealt with it.

I think you should work on your self-esteem issues. You need to realize you have your own worth as a human being. As for not understanding poly, don't beat yourself up over it. It's not for everyone.
 
I may be totally off base with this but I can't help thinking that your "enoughness" is perhaps a sort of side issue. With all the serious, somewhat scary,emotional and physical health things your wife has going on right now she may not be in a position to gauge what she wants or needs. You might want to try to set it aside for now as you may be torturing yourself over a will-o-wisp.

I found this blog helpful in getting perspective on my loved ones' depression and how it affects relationships. The writer is a man but it seems to me the issues he discusses are not exclusive to a male perspective and remind me of your situation with your wife.
http://www.storiedmind.com/men-depression/the-longing-to-leave-2/

Leetah



Thank you for that. I will give it a read, and see if there is any new perspective to gain.

That being said, to a degree, you're right. Health always comes first, believe it or not, that's not lost on me. However, the piece that seems to be lost in all of this, is that struggling with having this "relationship", while being afraid to tell me that it was going on is pretty much what's lead to these psychological problems in the first place. It's true that she's had other concerns, (work, etc...) BUT, she's never had any problem coming to me in the past. And once a certain someone entered the picture, it was as though she no longer wanted me, or needed me for ANYTHING outside of providing the financial support, and a place to live, etc... She became a dependent, and showed little to no interest in being a partner, even if in somewhat limited capacity for health reasons.

As for the physical illness, she's had that for sometime, and has had that under relative control for years.
 
Expecting one person to "be enough."

This is where the disconnect is coming in for me. I don't view relationships as "filling my need for _____." People are not in my life to fill voids or provide me with my needs any more than I am in their lives to fill voids or provide needs for them. I am fully capable of providing for my own needs. And, attempting to use people to fill voids in my life will work just about as well as using chemical substances to fill those voids. It's my job to ensure that I am whole and complete in myself and it's their jobs to do the same for themselves.

For me, relationships are about sharing myself with others and other people sharing themselves with me. I'm not filling needs or holes with people. I'm just sharing with them. It just so happens that I like to share with many and you prefer to share with one :) I don't need to share sexual and emotional intimacy with anyone but I chose to share either/both with people whom I connect with and I don't wish to have a limit set on a relationship before I even start it.

ETA: that last line and also that I do acknowledge that people sometimes use poly to fill that void...just as they do alcohol, escapism, etc, etc.


Look, I'm not talking about using people as their sole purpose for existence, or anything of the sort. Nor am I really talking about "filling voids". At least, not at the outset. But, when we were (seemingly) happy & content (neither of us said otherwise) with it being just the two of us, we had been in a stage where there was no reason whatsoever to change what was working so well. And if her feeling like someone new coming into the picture was going to make things better for her, I can't help but feel that changing the dynamic was nothing but a signal that something needed to be changed. We hear this all the time where poly folk talk about not being happy with the current relationship model, and bringing someone is the answer to making them happy. So why not just say that the current model wasn't making her happy? Because, if it's not making her happy, then it's obvious that she feels that I'm not enough to bring that.

Like I said, I'm not expecting the non-polys to get where I'm coming from. This isn't about some uber dependent personality trait that I have, it's about keeping what's special between us, between US. Me not wanting her to sleep with another guy is not caused because I feel she might like him better, or that she'll choose to stay with him instead, it's about cheapening what we have, by giving it so easily away to someone else. There's no such thing as "just sex" once you get to a certain point, and the life that we've built, is far too important to just do the same with another person... Especially one that you've never even met face to face. It's as though I'm being viewed in the same light as someone only seen on a computer screen.
 
Just a slightly different perspective on being "enough" for someone...

My husband, our marriage, our life together... Those are enough for me. And I hope for him as well.

But I don't want to be 90 years old and looking back on my life and say, yeah, I guess that was enough.

I want way more than enough, for both myself and my husband. I want us to have all the love and joy and closeness and yes, great sex, that we can find for ourselves in this lifetime.

For us, being open to loving relationships with others is part of that. And it doesn't cheapen what we have, or mean that we are not enough to make each other happy. It means we love each other so much that we don't ever want to limit each other's chances for happiness. I think building a love based on that is very special.

By the way, I'm not trying to bring you over to the poly dark side ;) It's not for everyone and from what I've read it's definitely not for you. I'm just sharing my own perspective because maybe it can help you heal the hurt of your wife having feelings for others.
 
Just a slightly different perspective on being "enough" for someone...

My husband, our marriage, our life together... Those are enough for me. And I hope for him as well.

But I don't want to be 90 years old and looking back on my life and say, yeah, I guess that was enough.

I want way more than enough, for both myself and my husband. I want us to have all the love and joy and closeness and yes, great sex, that we can find for ourselves in this lifetime.

For us, being open to loving relationships with others is part of that. And it doesn't cheapen what we have, or mean that we are not enough to make each other happy. It means we love each other so much that we don't ever want to limit each other's chances for happiness. I think building a love based on that is very special.

By the way, I'm not trying to bring you over to the poly dark side ;) It's not for everyone and from what I've read it's definitely not for you. I'm just sharing my own perspective because maybe it can help you heal the hurt of your wife having feelings for others.


I know you're not trying to bring me over to the poly side, but thank you. Please know, that I'm neither trying to bring any of you over to the mono side. If that's the way you view it, then I am in position to deny you what works in your life.

However, from my end, I just don't view adding others into the bedroom as allowing happiness. For me, to do so is to add pain, misery and agony. And for her to be "okay" with something that hits me over the head with something that creates such negative emotions, well, she might as well be telling me she hates me.

I understand that you feel that you want more than just "enough". But from my vantage point, more than enough is simply too much. I appreciate what you're saying, but there really isn't any perspective involving her having feelings for others that helps me have any peace of mind. To desire to act on it, is bad enough. It tells me, essentially, "I want to sleep with someone who isn't you". In other words, "there are times when I don't want you."
 
I may be totally off base with this but I can't help thinking that your "enoughness" is perhaps a sort of side issue. With all the serious, somewhat scary,emotional and physical health things your wife has going on right now she may not be in a position to gauge what she wants or needs. You might want to try to set it aside for now as you may be torturing yourself over a will-o-wisp.
CFT, I had that feeling as well. Like you still concentrate on polyamory after several months, but this is not the major problem. It took half the discussion before you mentioned the dependent state, in which your wife is now, which seems odd to me.

...For me, relationships are about sharing myself with others and other people sharing themselves with me. I'm not filling needs or holes with people. I'm just sharing with them. It just so happens that I like to share with many and you prefer to share with one :) I don't need to share sexual and emotional intimacy with anyone but I chose to share either/both with people whom I connect with and I don't wish to have a limit set on a relationship before I even start it.

ETA: that last line and also that I do acknowledge that people sometimes use poly to fill that void...just as they do alcohol, escapism, etc, etc.
I love this approach, thank you for writing it. I want to be in relationships to share. Although I aknowledge that I DO need people to meet my emotional needs. Even the need for intimacy, and I do think that relating and sharing is a basic need as well. What you say is kind of and ideal, which is worth working towards for me, to relate because you want to share and cooperate, not because you need that particular person to fill something else.

...I feel bad for you because you define yourself in terms of others. You base your entire self worth on whether you are "enough" for somebody? I cannot even fathom living like that...
Vinsanity, sorry to say, but I think you are being overly harsh on CFT. Like you are comming from the other side, but with a similar level of misunderstanding. I agree that it is not good to derive one's self worth from other people. But I don't think this is the case here. Perhaps to some degree, but not as much as you suggest. His reasons for not wanting polyamory are different, and different then your reasons were.

Like I said, I'm not expecting the non-polys to get where I'm coming from. This isn't about some uber dependent personality trait that I have, it's about keeping what's special between us, between US. Me not wanting her to sleep with another guy is not caused because I feel she might like him better, or that she'll choose to stay with him instead, it's about cheapening what we have, by giving it so easily away to someone else. There's no such thing as "just sex" once you get to a certain point, and the life that we've built, is far too important to just do the same with another person... Especially one that you've never even met face to face. It's as though I'm being viewed in the same light as someone only seen on a computer screen.
There are a lot of assumptions in this post, that strike me.
"easily"? maybe what you view as easy, is not without a deep reason for her.
"No such thing as just sex?" I agree and disagree, since some people can keep relationships without going up the relationship escalator. Did she say wants to build a life with him? Or does she want to keep "lives" separate and just share moments of it? Does she want to build life with both?
"being viewed in the same light as someone only seen on a computer screen." This, too, is an interpretation.

I think you might want to focus more on behavior, than on feelings. Thinking "if she rushes to the screen every time instead of spending time with me, I don't feel valued" is a good starting point for work, and very different from "she likes the other person on the screen, so she doesn't value me".

Also I thought about your situation the other day and one more parallel crossed my mind. When I was in love with my current poly partner, whom I barely knew at that time, and was deciding what to do with it and with my monogamous relationship, I told my psychiatrist about my struggles. He is wise man, and he asked what was so important about that poly man. I gave it a thought and I said: He listened to me. The psychiatrist went like: Wait a minute, WHAT did he listen to? Because that is, what is really important.
After time has passed, I really agree with the psychiatrist.
For me, it was the longing for a certain kind of intimacy. Also for more freedom and openness to be intimate with others. Also, he listened to my pain, and he didn't mind. He accepted me with my depression as being part of me, offering useful feedback to work on it, but not trying to "cure" me from my illness.
This will be probably in line with your perception of the primary relationship "not being enough". I will not dement that, but from my experience I want to make two points.
First, it was not about my partner, it was solely about ME, my needs and my shortcomings. I actually think "being in love" (not loving someone in a true stable sense), that crazy feeling, is always about that to some degree at least. My partner at that time was actually great in many different ways, we had a great intellectual connection, and emotional understanding as well, common goals, we were a good match to cooperate. I find that love is blind to that, it is about unmet needs, but it disregards those which are being met. Me falling in love was in no way my partners "fault". Also, if I knew about my needs, my partner could have perhaps met some of them (with a lot of work together), but certainly not all of them.
Second, I think it might be really important to find out what was important to your wife about her online relationship. Finding alternate ways to fill that might be the necessary change your relationship, even the way out of her depression. Also, listening to that in a kind non-judgemental way, if you are able - very healing to her. (But it sound like perhaps you cannot and she cannot speak, so that would be work for her therapist then :(.)


However, from my end, I just don't view adding others into the bedroom as allowing happiness. For me, to do so is to add pain, misery and agony. And for her to be "okay" with something that hits me over the head with something that creates such negative emotions, well, she might as well be telling me she hates me.
I am sorry for that. But again, her wish is not about you. Repeat. It is her wish. The wish is to be physical with another, not to hurt you.
It is an unnatural concept to most, but I firmly believe, that if you are hurt by another persons wish or feeling, it is your reaction and your responsibility, yourself hurting you, not the wish itself. That doesn't mean you have to accept whatever behavior, it just means, she is not a bad person for having a wish.

Besides, you said she didn't actually ask to open up. Why did she not ask or act? Perhaps she cares about your negative emotions.

...It tells me, essentially, "I want to sleep with someone who isn't you". In other words, "there are times when I don't want you."
This might be the case, but those two statements are not the same. She wants to sleep with someone else. That is all, really. It tells you, that there are times, her favorite activity would be to sleep with someone else. You are probably not surprised by the fact, that sometimes she chooses to do other things, then be with you - after all, she has friends and hobbies, no?

...

She fell for someone else. If that means she is finding out she doesn't want you? Well, that is a good reason to be depressed, if a long (and perhaps somewhat codependent) marriage is to end. Sorry, that this is an option.
If that means she wants both? And she knows it is impossible with you? A good reason to be depressed again, if she has to choose, and both options are a loss.
If that means she doesn't actually want that particular person, but certain missing peeces? Find those.

I am very much hoping, you overcome this successfully, whichever that means for you.
 
.... you still concentrate on polyamory after several months, but this is not the major problem.

Polyamory seems to be the whipping boy for a whole host of other long standing issues between you two, CTF and in each of you. Poly gives you something to circle around, but there's not even much poly going on here, it's just absorbing a lot of attention and energy that comes from so many other places in your lives.

That said, you're solidly monogamous, CTF, and she wants to explore something beyond a long term monogamous partnership, so you've got a big mismatch here. Your wife is clearly shriveling on the vine, having put herself back into containment, and you're miserable. Where do you go from here?
 
Re (from CTF):
"What's more, is the disturbing images I have when it comes to even thinking about her sleeping with someone else. It's difficult to explain to someone who has no problem seeing their partner sleeping with another, or even knowing about it, but it's a haunting visual that hurts in an indescribable way."

That sounds pretty awful. I'm sorry you're going through that.
 
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