possibly confusing intro

Feels odd just wandering into a space and announcing a bunch of stuff about yourself. Rather personal stuff at that... but i need unbiased eyes... so here i am.

I'm going to sum a bunch of stuff up with short bursts to get to where I am now... cause it seems relevant, but not worth going into in depth, yet.

I was married. His best friend got divorced... and looked so sad and dejected... I jokingly-not-jokingly said I wish I could have sex with him to cheer him up. After talking it over for about a week, making sure it wasn't a impulse... we offered... and after another two weeks, after his friend was sure it wasn't an impulse... he accepted. We had sex off and on for about a year, till he met someone else.

Fast forward a few years. The friend starts dating my best friend. They get married. I feel like I won the jackpot. Both of our best friends just got married.

I, with permission, occasionally have sex with the two of them. But my marriage is otherwise mono. I'm kinda in a relationship with my best friend. Off and on that includes her husband... there are some insecurity issues sometimes, and we are careful to back off when that happens.

Fast forward another few years: my husband quits an abusive job. We move in with our friends. Between a year of unemployment, and a realization that I've been putting up with emotional abuse for a long time... the strain on our marriage is too much, and I've asked for a divorce.

Now, I'm living with them, trying to remain friends with my husband. But while I was content being in a relationship with them while I was married... I don't like being the 'third' or secondary or whatever this is. I also have a lot of resentment on how my husband was treated while we were all living here together. He's passive aggressive and can be an ass... but they didn't try to talk to him or fix anything. Just expected me to manage him.

Now, I'm deeply in love with (and have been for years) my ex husband's best friend. I love my best friend (his wife) and we occasionally have sex... but I'm not IN Love with her. I am not bi by nature... I just love her. And recently, that has been diminishing. She's made a bunch of choices, some large life altering ones (bariatric surgery) without really considering anyone else. She's dismissive of my feelings at times. She wants to make this work... with the three of us. But I'm unsure of so many things right now. Too much is changing in my life at once. I feel like I can't keep up. Things with my husband, things at work, things with them, things with my son... so much change. Then, things with her surgery (which she rushed right ahead and had done) and the changes to her body/mood/life. ... I'm resentful and angry and she's insecure and dismissive. I don't trust her with my feelings any more. When I've tried to talk to her, she gets defensive, or upset, or just doesn't react and I find out later she's upset at me.

Ack. How did I get here?

But more importantly... I'm trying to figure out where to go from here. I feel like there is no good path forward. There is a song called Beauty from Pain and a line from it is "All that's left is to accept that its over. My dreams ran like sand through the fist that I made." ... I don't see a good path forward.

Do I try to work things out with her? Do we step back and turn this more into a V than a triangle? Is that possible? How do I do that without hurting her? Or do I just move on and find my own path through life and leave them to figure their own marriage out?

I've been friends with him for 20 years, friends with her for 17...

Sigh.

This is hard. And I think worth it, but hard. and sometimes I want to run for the hills.

Welcome, Elizabeta -

Your story is compelling and will be more reader-friendly if you assign nicknames to the players. Without nicknames, the narrative gets awfully confusing awfully fast.

Thanks for sharing your story with us!

Are you still living with them?

Greetings Elizabeta,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.

Re (from OP):

"Do I try to work things out with her?"

Click to expand...

I think you and she should sit down together and ask each other that question.

Re:

"Do we step back and turn this more into a V than a triangle?"

Click to expand...

That's also something you should ask her.

Re:

"Is that possible?"

Click to expand...

In theory there's no reason why it wouldn't be possible.

Re:

"How do I do that without hurting her?"

Click to expand...

Again ask her, but keep in mind that people get hurt in relationships; it can't always be helped.

Re:

"Or do I just move on and find my own path through life and leave them to figure their own marriage out?"

Click to expand...

Ask both of them. Schedule a time when the three of you can sit down and talk calmly without undue stress or distractions.

There isn't an obvious right-or-wrong path that I can see here. Instead, there are possibilities you need to discuss with your best friend and her husband. I would hold off making any major decisions until you have talked to them.

If you can post and let us know what comes out of that/those discussion/s, I'll have a better idea of what to suggest.

Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter"

Notes:

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Welcome aboard!

I am sorry you are dealing with all this.

I am going to go out on a limb and guess. I could guess wrong. Please correct me if I do, ok?

I also have a lot of resentment on how my husband was treated while we were all living here together. He's passive aggressive and can be an ass... but they didn't try to talk to him or fix anything. Just expected me to manage him.

Click to expand...

It is not their job or your job to manage him. It is his job to exercise self control and manage himself.

If one had problems with him, would you have preferred that one to address it with the ex-husband directly rather than putting you in the middle? Have you expressed that preference that each person deal with things directly with the person it involved?

Now, I'm deeply in love with (and have been for years) my ex husband's best friend. I love my best friend (his wife) and we occasionally have sex... but I'm not IN Love with her. I am not bi by nature... I just love her.

Click to expand...

Is she aware that you love her, but are not IN love with her?

She's made a bunch of choices, some large life altering ones (bariatric surgery) without really considering anyone else. She's dismissive of my feelings at times. She wants to make this work... with the three of us.

Click to expand...

Since she's willing to work on things... have you told her straight up that you need consideration when she makes decisions? (How does her surgery affect you? I am not saying it doesn't, but I'm not reading how it does.)

Have you told her straight up when she dismisses your feelings how you prefer she talk to you? Like instead of

"You are too sensitive!"

she could say

"I see that you feel X right now."

Do I try to work things out with her? Do we step back and turn this more into a V than a triangle? Is that possible? How do I do that without hurting her? Or do I just move on and find my own path through life and leave them to figure their own marriage out?

Click to expand...

Do you prefer a V? If so, ask for it straight up. She may or may not be hurt -- but her emotional management is her job. Not yours.

This is hard. And I think worth it, but hard. and sometimes I want to run for the hills.

Click to expand...

Here you sound like you want the trio arrangement you have. And mostly you want to vent some frustrations because there's so many changes going on at once. Is what you need rest? A vacation away from people/stimulus?

What's your desired outcome? If you could have things how you want them... what would that look like?

If you circled the hings you need most from this list, what are they?

Galagirl

With Nicknames

Edited for Clarity, Adding NickNames (In purple, cause who doesn't love purple?)

Feels odd just wandering into a space and announcing a bunch of stuff about yourself. Rather personal stuff at that... but i need unbiased eyes... so here i am.

I'm going to sum a bunch of stuff up with short bursts to get to where I am now... cause it seems relevant, but not worth going into in depth, yet.

I was married to Mal. His best friend, Arnold, got divorced... and looked so sad and dejected... I jokingly-not-jokingly said I wish I could have sex with him to cheer him up. After talking it over for about a week, making sure it wasn't a impulse... we offered... and after another two weeks, after his friend was sure it wasn't an impulse... he accepted. We had sex off and on for about a year, till he met someone else.

Fast forward a few years. The friend starts dating my best friend, Isa. They get married. I feel like I won the jackpot. Both of our best friends just got married.

I, with permission, occasionally have sex with Isa and Arnold. But my marriage is otherwise mono. I'm kinda in a relationship with Isa. Off and on that includes her husband, Arnold... there are some insecurity issues sometimes, and Arnold and I are careful to back off when that happens.

Fast forward another few years: my husband, Mal, quits an abusive job. We move in with Isa and Arnold. Between a year of unemployment, and a realization that I've been putting up with emotional abuse for a long time... the strain on our marriage is too much, and I've asked for a divorce.

Now, I'm living with Isa and Arnold, trying to remain friends with my husband. But while I was content being in a relationship with Isa and Arnold while I was married to Mal... I don't like being the 'third' or secondary or whatever this is. I also have a lot of resentment on how my husband was treated while we were all living here together. He's passive aggressive and can be an ass... but they didn't try to talk to him or fix anything. Just expected me to manage him.

Now, I'm deeply in love with (and have been for years) Arnold. I love Isa (his wife) and we occasionally have sex... but I'm not IN Love with her. I am not bi by nature... I just love her. And recently, that has been diminishing. She's made a bunch of choices, some large life altering ones (bariatric surgery) without really considering anyone else. She's dismissive of my feelings at times. She wants to make this work... with the three of us. But I'm unsure of so many things right now. Too much is changing in my life at once. I feel like I can't keep up. Things with my husband, things at work, things with them, things with my son... so much change. Then, things with her surgery (which she rushed right ahead and had done) and the changes to her body/mood/life. ... I'm resentful and angry and she's insecure and dismissive. I don't trust her with my feelings any more. When I've tried to talk to her, she gets defensive, or upset, or just doesn't react and I find out later she's upset at me.

Ack. How did I get here?

But more importantly... I'm trying to figure out where to go from here. I feel like there is no good path forward. There is a song called Beauty from Pain and a line from it is "All that's left is to accept that its over. My dreams ran like sand through the fist that I made." ... I don't see a good path forward.

Do I try to work things out with her? Do we step back and turn this more into a V than a triangle? Is that possible? How do I do that without hurting her? Or do I just move on and find my own path through life and leave them to figure their own marriage out?

I've been friends with Arnold for 20 years, friends with Isa for 17...

Sigh.

This is hard. And I think worth it, but hard. and sometimes I want to run for the hills.

I am still living with them. I like living here, mostly.

kdt, I am completely in agreement with the more communication is needed. There are a few things complicating that:
1 - The few times I've tried talking with her about less sensitive things, it's kinda turned into a mess. She has taken things wrong, made assumptions about things that weren't true, gotten her feelings hurt over it.
2 - She works away from home 3 1/2 days of the week. It's hard (and this is something I realize we need to get over) using the precious little time she's home to discuss things that are difficult. (This is something all three of us realize and are working on... but it's still a work in progress)
3 - Everything about her is in the process of change. Her moods are currently ever-shifting. She is trying to heal from the surgery. The rapid weight loss is causing hormonal shifts. Arnold and I are kinda just trying to ride out the roller coaster till things smooth out. If they smooth out.

I think, my question of, how do I do that without hurting her... I don't think there is a way... but what I may have meant is, "how do I do that in a way we can still move forward together as a group?" (I know there is not a one sentence or even 2-3 easy chapters that will give me all the answers)

Has anyone else had experience with moving from 'all three' to a V?

Galagirl, you are right, there are SO many changes going on for me right now. It is overwhelming at times. Really truly overwhelming where it stops me dead and leaks out my eyes. Trying to write things down here is helping, and so are the direct questions. I like the list you linked.

I'm going to spend some time looking through the forum more today. Isa and Arnold are going camping with family for a few days. It will be nice and quiet at home for a bit. Maybe that will give me some time to clear and organize my thoughts.

Could you all benefit from reading Non Violent Communication or taking a class in it?

1 - The few times I've tried talking with her about less sensitive things, it's kinda turned into a mess. She has taken things wrong, made assumptions about things that weren't true, gotten her feelings hurt over it.

Click to expand...

Is she willing to improve her listening skills? Here's a list of poor listening.

You guys might cover this too esp if everyone is stressed to the max and not always thinking clear right now.

http://www.apsu.edu/sites/apsu.edu/files/counseling/COGNITIVE_0.pdf

2 - She works away from home 3 1/2 days of the week. It's hard (and this is something I realize we need to get over) using the precious little time she's home to discuss things that are difficult. (This is something all three of us realize and are working on... but it's still a work in progress)

Click to expand...

It has to happen sometime. Once a month or something.

Rather than treating it as big ol marathon talks, how about just regular maintenance? Even checking in over email could work.

Could ask your partners how they want to schedule relationship maintenance talks. And use the time for both giving kudos on things going WELL and not just feedback on the things going not so well.

3 - Everything about her is in the process of change. Her moods are currently ever-shifting. She is trying to heal from the surgery. The rapid weight loss is causing hormonal shifts. Arnold and I are kinda just trying to ride out the roller coaster till things smooth out. If they smooth out.

Click to expand...

Do you think you all need extra support in the form of a counselor? Since there's so many changes?

I think, my question of, how do I do that without hurting her... I don't think there is a way... but what I may have meant is, "how do I do that in a way we can still move forward together as a group?"

Click to expand...

First you ask if everyone in the group is WILLING to move forward as a group. They all still want to be here.

Second you identify what blocks ABILITY for each player. That gives hints as to what to work on. From what I read so far I guess

• GROUP: Missing time on schedule to do relationship management talks.
  
• ISA: Could improve listening skills. Become aware of poor listening things and avoid those. Become aware of active listening things and do more of that.
  
• ARNOLD: ?
  
• YOU: Stress management -- you seem stressed and exhausted by many things -- divorce, changing from a quad to a trio living there, and more.

Third -- You sort out HOW you will address yours things in turn and how you will help hold people accountable to their part of the job. (You all do this)

Figure out how the group will measure progress, establish some checkpoints and map out the plan. Then execute the plan. Each one doing their individual tasks, and the group doing group tasks. Bit by bit.

Galagirl

Hi Elizabeta,

I basically would just echo GalaGirl's post (above). It sounds like Isa could do better in the listening department ... and maybe you all three could work on NVC?

I do see how communication would be difficult for you guys. Can you communicate by email sometimes?

With regards,
Kevin T.

Damn you Kevin, you said what I wanted to say.... he is right. Email, text can work, it gives you time to think about what you want to say. We went from a V to a triad, Dani, my wife tried, but the L, she was more set to be mono with me. That wasn't going to happen, she could never understand how much Dani and I talked . A relationship needs Communication, values (throw money management in this) Love and sex. the last two are last for a reason. The first are the body of the relationship. the fail and so will the last two. If you love her as a friend, great, if you love her as a woman, that can help. Sex is a form of intimate bonding and communication. We have gotten along better with a woman, when she and Dani had a bi relationship. Not necessary, but did help.

Whelp.... Progress is being made.



We tried to make some gentle headway into some of the topics that were weighing on us to no avail.

Then she went to visit a friend for the day, and all the kids happened to leave the house too (which hardly ever happens)... so we got the 'good nookie' ... you know, the empty house kind where you can let loose. I happen to like pretty aggressive sex. Arnold has recently (past 6 months) opened up to that where historically, he has been very *anti*.

She came back and saw I had light bruises (I bruise easily) and I said we had had sex. That immediately bothered her, cause she felt like we were just waiting for her to leave to have sex without her. This is something that is supposed to be fine, so suddenly stumbling on a landmine (again) was frustrating.

I said 'I don't know if I can do this.' (the back and forth of 'its okay, its not okay, its ok, its not okay') ... after a few minutes more discussion about the bruising she asked what kind of sex we were having. And I said Aggressive sex (which, she keeps kinda asking from him, but in the past he has been unwilling). That set off a whole slew of landmines of anger and hurt and insecurity.

Through many conversations with Arnold and I working on his issues with it, and going slow, trying small things a little bit at a time, he's worked past this to genuinely enjoy it... with me... and we've tried, gently, trying not to step on landmines of insecurity to bring it up with her, but she's been very dismissive and we hadn't made much headway.

So, everything came pouring out in two days of conversation. His frustration with her parenting, her pointing out the lack of communication on the subject. The insecurities over sex, desire, feeling replaced, aggressive sex, being in a rut, not talking about sex. Feelings of bad communication, not feeling appreciated, third wheels, all the things... ALL THE THINGS!

It was like a big thorn that hurt when pulled and bled for a while and is scabbed over and hurts, but is certainly healing.

I'm sure there are some of you who have been on this forum for a long time... you may even have dreams at night of responding on the forum to newcomers with repetitive chants of "Communication, Communication, Communication"

There is nothing like it.

"I have this problem. We have this problem. She/He has this problem"

"Communicate"

"But... all these reasons it won't work, won't go over well, will hurt, is too hard"

"Communicate"

"But..."

"Communicate"

"oh. that worked."

Glad to hear there's some progress.

Hang in there!

Galagirl

That's good to hear Elizabeta. I hope things continue to improve for you guys.

Hi Elizabeta
I would tell her that you joined this forum and ask her to read your post. Then you can sit down together and discuss how you want to progress.
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