I don't want to be poly under these circumstances

I think polyamory is about having relationships in infinite groups, and where there is a talk about group then you should not be feeling difficult when a identity from the group is getting closer to another identity likewise you may also get close and personal with someone else, i think polyamory is about connecting and bonding of likewise identities / positive charges whatever you may term it.

if some identity is feeling jealous and hatred about another identities when some positive charges are attracting then it is clear that this first identity is jealous due to his/her own needs because this first identity wants the other third identity with him/her and not with anyone else other than her. this is a case of jealous and not of sharing likewise thoughts and relationships.....
 
Polyamory isn't always about *infinite* groups. Polyamory means loving more than one person. That might be *only* two people, or more than two. Not necessarily "infinite."

The situation Wife puts out here is, in my opinion, NOT polyamory anyway. Her husband loves more than one, yes. But her husband is trying to force her into accepting the situation. And he is trying to force her to be part of a threesome relationship instead of him having two relationships and Wife getting to stay out of it.

Forcing is not part of polyamory. Forcing is bullshit.

In addition, I'm not seeing jealousy playing a role here. I'm seeing anger and pain at broken promises, and at the person she loves trying to force her into accepting a situation.

I'm seeing frustration at a second partner who is lying and cheating on a spouse rather than being open and honest. (That isn't polyamory either, in my opinion.)

Polyamory is something agreed on by ALL participants, of their own free will and desires. Not something where one partner says "I don't give a crap what you want, I'm doing this, take it or leave it." Not something where one partner says, "I don't care if you want to have a relationship with my other partner, you're having one because I want two women to be in a relationship with me and each other, and that's all you're getting."

Wife's situation isn't polyamory. It's dishonesty, cheating, and coercion.

And guess what? Jealousy happens. It's an emotion. Emotions happen. Doesn't mean the first person is less "enlightened" or less "open" or less "sharing" than the others. It just means they're jealous.
 
Your main problem isn't poly. It's not even the other woman.

Your main problem is that you and your husband both take each other completely for granted. You're certain he won't leave you, he's certain you won't leave him, and neither of you is even listening to the other.

I'm not justifying his cheating, that's still shitty behaviour. But it seems like from his perspective, your marriage is over. Like you, he probably doesn't want to upset the kids, and he probably enjoys the comfort of having you around, especially if you'll keep up the charade and let him have the best of both worlds. He figures he's been miserable for 10 years, and now he's just going to do whatever he pleases.

No marriage is flawless for 10 years. Ever. If you ever find yourself in a marriage that seems to have gone smoothly and without any serious issue for an entire decade, it means you have a water closet somewhere in your metaphorical house that is overflowing with shit.
 
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Inyourendo said:
Im not saying that she should out them but come on, enabling a cheater doesn't make you guilty?
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The only enabling Wife is doing is staying with a husband who's blatantly shoving an emotional affair in her face and not even attempting to have a consensual polyamorous relationship.

Just because you find out about an affair, doesn't mean it stops being an affair if the relationship continues. Wife's husband and this other woman began an emotional affair behind her back, and she found out, and now they're still having an emotional affair but in front of her face.

So no, that doesn't make Wife guilty of anything.
 
SchrodingersCat said:
If you ever find yourself in a marriage that seems to have gone smoothly and without any serious issue for an entire decade, it means you have a water closet somewhere in your metaphorical house that is overflowing with shit.
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giggle.gif


So true.
 
Hi Wife,

Does your husband know how much poly is hurting you? Does he know you're sick to your stomach every day? Does he know you can't think half the time?

It sounds like you and your husband need marriage counseling (with a poly-friendly counselor if possible). As well as help and advice from this here forum.

Re (from Wife):
"I can't say I love you because it might make her jealous ..."
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That's a bad rule. (Though a rule that she can't say I love you would be bad as well.)

There does have to be a point where you decide the crap your husband dishes out has exceeded your willingness to stay in the marriage. Maybe you aren't at that point yet, but that doesn't mean the point doesn't exist.

I hope you'll still let us know how things are going, and hopefully we can still help.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
I'm exhausted...

Mentally, emotionally & physically exhausted. I wish there was another way to explain it. Feeling like I have been hit by a freight train. There are so many respectful, knowledgeable and helpful replies to this thread, and again I would like to say thank you to you all. I found myself reading back through my posts and I don't like that my emotions have been all over the place. I'm usually pretty level headed. Given that this game changer was not anticipated, I'm doing to the best I can to maintain a positive attitude. I had a long, serious talk with my husband yesterday. He agreed that he was being "a bit selfish" but he also says he thinks he's entitled to be, to a certain extent. I poured my heart out. Cried a little. Ok, a lot. And did my damndest to get my point across. My fears, my insecurities, my apprehension. It seems that he is having a hard time understanding why I'm so upset. The point he makes is that she and I get along. You could even say we were friends. So he is unsure why I am being so close minded about the possibility of a trio. I tried to explain that the way they went about it was all wrong. This was different than our swinging adventures, mainly because of the emotional infidelity, and the fact that I was not included. The lies are hard to get past. He looked me in the eyes, told me that he never wants to replace me. Told me how much he loves me, That she is an addition,and that I'll always be first. But I don't believe he would tell her that. Or who's not to say he hadn't told her the exact same thing? Is terrible not knowing what to think. Not knowing if I can believe him. He did tell me that he loves her. He loves the way she makes him feel. And while I should have been appreciative of his openness, it was like a punch to the gut. Is that ever going to get easier? I told him I wanted to focus on us, he says, "we're good as long as you stay positive". No sir, clearly we are NOT good.
 
He agreed that he was being "a bit selfish" but he also says he thinks he's entitled to be, to a certain extent.
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That is the crux of the whole thing right there. Entitlement. He has this whole attitude of whatever he wants should just GO... running right over anyone else. If they don't like this, it is not because he's being fresh or unreasonable.

It's because they are "mean" or "not cooperating" or something.

Told me how much he loves me, That she is an addition,and that I'll always be first.
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He doesn't BEHAVE like you are first to him when he dismisses your feelings and ignores what you are saying and tells you he's entitled.

I think he says whatever in the moment so you stick around. Because (he wants you around doing the things you do for him. So long as he gets service, it doesn't matter to him if you are happy or not. And if you are unhappy, don't tell him. Don't disturb him with your stuff. Remember to "have positive attitude" around him.

I can imagine he's doing sing-song to her too. Just a different flavor.

I told him I wanted to focus on us, he says, "we're good as long as you stay positive". No sir, clearly we are NOT good.
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Def not good. :( I am glad you see that.

Is terrible not knowing what to think. Not knowing if I can believe him.
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You cannot believe him any more. And that's a hard pill to swallow. I know.

Or if you are going to believe him, believe the self serving bits only.

  • That he is selfish and entitled.
  • That he wants her, whether she's cheating on her hubby or not (which is messed up!)
  • That he wants you, whether you are happy or not.
  • That he wants a triad, whether he has consent from all players or not.
  • That he doesn't want to hear your problems.
  • That he wants you to be all "happy attitude" around him not calling him on his BS. Because that is you just spoiling his good time and he's entitled to having a good time.

That's about the long and short of it. :(

I can see this is hard for you. And I'm sorry for that part of it. You do not deserve this treatment. I don't think he's going to do anything but try to keep grinding you down on this triad thing.

Galagirl
 
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Sweetheart he is playing you lip service... He wants his cake and eat it too.

How dare he force a relationship on you that you do not want. You better believe that he isn't telling her that you come first and that she is just additional. What woman in their right mind wants to be told that she is less than?

His actions speak louder than words. Wake up.
 
Inyourendo said:
I wouldn't stay involved with a cheater. You are just as guilty as they are by tolerating it.
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I think it's pretty harsh to say he's a cheater. This sounds very close to my old situation, and since we're hearing it from HER point of view? I can definitely imagine this is the story my partner's ex fed her friends.

I'm guessing the OP is a lot more at fault than she'd admit upfront.
 
Your story sounds like what my partner's ex convinced herself of. I do think you are making a lot of judgments and assumptions. For example, his ex also thought she had to love me, just because I loved her-- then-- partner. No. I just wanted her to get along with me. That's all he wanted to. We offered to include her in play. But that was not at all necessary. Some people say "triad" when they just want a comfortable relationship where all three people are involved in each other's life to an extent, but not full romantic partnership. She also got mad because I was upfront with him about my emotions before her. That was her fault for creating a DaDt setup (do you share most of your dating life with each other or no?). She accused us both of "cheating" because we told each other we loved each other, before telling her.

I'd be willing to help you with this, if you'd like. You seem open minded and willing to work with him on this. But this WILL mean working with her too. You want her to have two nights a week with him? Putting it as, I need three nights with you will get you a TON further than you can ONLY have two nights with her.

Also, remember it's not her fault your husband withdrew from you. Controlling THEIR relationship will only push him away. But I bet you and she and he can work and make sure ALL of your relationships are healthy.

Or...he might be a serial monogamist and have moved on. But if you try, at least you'll know you did everything YOU could.

Anyway, if you want my help, please PM.
 
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Re (from Wife):
"He agreed that he was being 'a bit selfish' but he also says he thinks he's entitled to be, to a certain extent."
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Why, because you looked at his phone? Two wrongs make a right?

Re:
"I told him I wanted to focus on us; he says, 'We're good as long as you stay positive.'"
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I think I just vomited a little in my mouth.
 
I do want everyone to know that I am not so blind as to not see my fault in some of this. Clearly I have done something to push him away. But given that he hasn't really expressed his unhappiness to me before, I think that is where the confusion lies. I am not oblivious to the fact that it is possible to love more than one person. But I also know that there has to be a certain level of respect in order to make this work. And by "this" I mean he and I. My PRIMARY focus is our marriage if in fact it is still salvageable. And I believe it is. I just want to know that he feels the same. And right now, it doesn't feel that way.

When my husband and I talked last night, he said, "let's just see where this goes. Have a little fun, the three of us, and if it's just not working, we'll go from there." But where does that leave her? Brokenhearted. Don't give me the option to veto this whole thing after the funs been had. That's not fair. He admitted to being in the "honeymoon phase" of their relationship. And that once the "new" wares off, things may change. But I'm not quite sure what that means.

It confuses me when he says things like, "knowing your place in all of this as my Queen makes you far more attractive than this insecure negative person you're becoming. You have nothing to worry about, you've got 13 years on her, she'll never catch up to how I feel about you". And while that's nice to hear, it's not so easy to believe. Especially when he goes into detail about why he fell for her. Saying it was just like when he fell for me. Same butterflies, totally unexpected infatuation that has just developed more and more each day. Not sure how secure I should feel about that. And it's not about her catching up, so I don't even know how to process that.

I guess I just want more clarity. And I don't feel like I'm getting anywhere. I like to think that I have a very open mind. I'm absolutely open to a poly relationship. But it's almost like he doesn't know the difference. What he's asking for is a relationship with her and he wants to add me to it so I don't get my feelings hurt. I'm sure that comes across as a negative way of looking at it, but I am processing these feelings as they come. I've never been the type to worry so much or be so insecure and I really dislike it. I wish there was a better way to put it. GalaGirl says it's lipservice. And I believe that. I know that deep down, I cannot control the relationship he has with her. And I don't think I necessarily want to. I just think that it was unfair to "add" her to a relationship thinking it will make things better. And it's unrealistic to force the two of us to bond, especially when I feel like I can't really trust either of them just yet. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Dealing with these emotions is getting easier, but I don't want to be angry. That's just not me. I hate that this has consumed me emotionally, so I'm hopeful that I'll land somewhere in between standing my ground while not letting either of them manipulate me, and being open minded enough to see the potential for things to improve with or without her.
 
Re:
"When my husband and I talked last night, he said, 'Let's just see where this goes. Have a little fun, the three of us, and if it's just not working, we'll go from there.'"
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Suuuure, it'll all just fall into place.

Re:
"Knowing your place in all of this as my Queen makes you far more attractive than this insecure negative person you're becoming. You have nothing to worry about, you've got 13 years on her, she'll never catch up to how I feel about you."
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Assuming that's even true, it's a cold thing to say about her.

Re:
"I hate that this has consumed me emotionally, so I'm hopeful that I'll land somewhere in between standing my ground while not letting either of them manipulate me, and being open-minded enough to see the potential for things to improve with or without her."
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Sounds reasonable.
 
It sounds like he has decided what he wants, and he's just trying out various combinations of words in hopes that one of those combos will get you to go along with what he's already decided is happening.

It also sounds like you're being very clear about what you want. Have you said something to him like "My PRIMARY focus is our marriage if in fact it is still salvageable - is that your primary focus too? If not, what is?"? What did he say back?

Honestly, I think that from what you've written, everything coming out of his mouth is bullshit geared at just getting you to do what he wants.

So what do you want to do? And what do you need to do to make it happen?

And I don't mean like "make my marriage work", because you actually can't do that yourself. What do you want to do for YOU that will work? What things do you need to do to be your rock, so that you're strong support yourself through whatever happens, including walking away from this, if necessary?

On that note, what about your husbands behavior causes you to believe that your marriage is salvageable? I'm not trying to be mean, it's just that from everything you've written, it sounds like he's not willing to do anything other than mouth words at you until he wears you down. Is there something else happening that we missed?
 
LizziE,

I think I'm hoping that I'm missing something. That there is a simplicity to this that I just haven't seen yet. Perhaps saying that my marriage is salvageable is the optimist in me. He told me that no matter what, we are going to be fine. That in the end, if this doesn't work out with her, we still have us. But he hasn't done anything to make me feel that way. He asked me today if he could see her on Wednesday. I told him I would rather he didn't. And not because I want control, but because it's our anniversary. I'm not sure he realized that at first, but after he told me I was being unreasonable, I explained why. He says, can't we celebrate on Tuesday? Sure, kinda like celebrating Christmas in July? Just when I think I'm making progress, he does something like that. =(
 
Wife said:
He asked me today if he could see her on Wednesday. I told him I would rather he didn't. And not because I want control, but because it's our anniversary. I'm not sure he realized that at first, but after he told me I was being unreasonable, I explained why. He says, can't we celebrate on Tuesday?
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So what you've basically just said is that in actions, he doesn't prioritize your relationship. Because saying "Can't we celebrate on Tuesday?" is...that is beyond shitty. I'm so sorry, because you absolutely don't deserve to be treated like that.

And when you're trying to decide what to do and what can be salvaged, if I were you, I'd keep in mind this whole "Can't we celebrate on Tuesday?" thing. At the very least, what he has expressed is that his needs and desires are of absolute most importance. More important than your anniversary, this very important thing you share together. Someone who says things like "You are my Queen and always will be" and simultaneously "Can't we celebrate on Tuesday?" in regards to an anniversary has nothing but themself in their mind. You may well be his Queen because he sees himself as a King, so of course he has a Queen. But it's less about you being a Queen for yourself and more about him being a King.

I am so sorry. I hope you are doing many things right now that comfort you and give you enjoyment, like cooking your favorite foods or listening to your favorite music. Because this sounds like a really bad situation that isn't going to get better. Not with the things coming out of your husband's mouth.
 
I think you are in the bargaining stage of grief. Still looking for the magic puzzle piece that will make it all work. It's ok to be there right now.

Just not ok to STAY there forever. Because you don't want to be in that limbo for 5, 10, 15 years. I think you could set a time limit on your tolerance. If it goes past your limit of tolerance, it has become intolerable and you accept it. And move on without him, with regrets.

In the meanwhile, do your self care, keep saying no triad (they can just keep on with the V), keep saying what you do need to work out the marriage problems. And if he keeps pushing triad, and not working not the marriage side, and on with lip service.... just take notes. When he hits and cross the limit? You know it.

Galagirl
 
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Candiedlove said:
I think it's pretty harsh to say he's a cheater. This sounds very close to my old situation, and since we're hearing it from HER point of view? I can definitely imagine this is the story my partner's ex fed her friends.

I'm guessing the OP is a lot more at fault than she'd admit upfront.
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If I was having an affair with a married man who's wife did not know that wouldn't make me a cheater?
 
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