How do I even start to explain??

Needingadvice22 said:
I just called my wife out on this as well and I agree. She always says, "I'll do anything to make this marriage work!" And I know for a fact if I said, "OK, bend over, and do anal" she would instantly say no way in hell! LMAO. (Sorry if that was crude I like to use absurdity to prove a point sometimes)

Not only that, but she will say that and then turn around and pretty much do nothing to save our marriage. Anytime I ask for any sort of special date, or time to discus things, or whatever I get stonewalled. And when I try to have sex with her I'm still batting less than 50%. Her words just sound hollow to me. She really wouldn't do "anything". She really doesn't do much at all to try to save our relationship. I'm an actions guy. I'm far from perfect, but my words are followed by actions. I would never say I would do anything because reality is that I wouldn't. Even though I think she really wants me to say it and it would probably make her feel better, it's not true. If he really said that then I would call him out on it. Ask him to be more realistic. What are you willing to do? What aren't you willing to do? And then make a plan. That's what I plan to do when my wife and I talk tonight.

A question though since I haven't had a chance yet to read all of this. Is poly important enough to end this relationship? If he says he will do all sorts of things but he won't do that, will that be a deal breaker? I know for me personally, I don't require at this point at least, for her to agree to it. Even if she did, I probably would spend the next few months focusing on her before venturing out. What I want more than anything is to be listened to and understood. I want to be able to openly communicate without fear of being yelled at or told I'm crazy. I don't want to be stonewalled. I would like for her to see that what I'm suggesting isn't a lack of love, but a higher and more evolved form of love. An unselfish love. She doesn't have to be ready to say yes. She just has to at least show that she is seeking to understand it.
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I think a more important question to ask pertains to the song "I would do anything for love... but I won't do that" by meatloaf. I wonder if he was singing about poly and how he is a monogamist at heart.

One thing that we have to understand and remember is how far on the fringe most of us are in our thoughts and feelings. We are talking about a heterosexual white male that is a fundamentalist Christian in Western society. His reaction to journeys revelations are completely scripted for him and expected (and endorsed?) by our society. She is no longer the wife that he knew, polyamory is sinful in his world, wives are to be subservient to the husband, and there are few things more emasculating to a man of his position then learning that your wife wants other men. He has just been emotionally flattened by a bulldozer and is trying to make sense of his life and as a result is lashing out. I know we expect more grown-up behavior from adults in how they handle their emotions but most men are not in touch with their emotions enough to be able to control them especially under such circumstances. When one is bewildered and has tunnel vision, we usually go into autopilot and deal with the world in the scripted way that has been taught to us throughout our lives. I think most people would completely understand the husband and forgive him more so than the wife. That is not to say that he is right but he has society on his side. I feel sorry for him and I also feel sorry for journey but I am glad that she seems so level headed. I think it would be good to allow him to catch his breath and regain his balance. Even when you are not talking to him about this I guarantee you it is running through his head 24 hours a day and so he is exhausted thinking about it. Just my 2 cents
 
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I can't see her being content with him saying "okay I accept you're poly but you're never allowed to act on it". Is that what she wants? Just for him to accept that she can love more than one person but she's never actually going to do it? If so, I agree that he should make more effort to understand, after all, their relationship will never actually be non monogamous. Only in her head.

"We are talking about a heterosexual white male that is a fundamentalist Christian in Western society. His reaction to journeys revelations are completely scripted for him and expected (and endorsed?) by our society. She is no longer the wife that he knew, polyamory is sinful in his world, wives are to be subservient to the husband, and there are few things more emasculating to a man of his position then learning that your wife wants other men."

This line of thinking is not specific to religious men.

This is also true of non religious men
 
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MightyMax said:
I can't see her being content with him saying "okay I accept you're poly but you're never allowed to act on it". Is that what she wants? Just for him to accept that she can love more than one person but she's never actually going to do it? If so, I agree that he should make more effort to understand, after all, their relationship will never actually be non monogamous. Only in her head.

"We are talking about a heterosexual white male that is a fundamentalist Christian in Western society. His reaction to journeys revelations are completely scripted for him and expected (and endorsed?) by our society. She is no longer the wife that he knew, polyamory is sinful in his world, wives are to be subservient to the husband, and there are few things more emasculating to a man of his position then learning that your wife wants other men."

This line of thinking is not specific to religious men.

This is also true of non religious men
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Whilst I haven't previously agreed with Max, I agree with all of this. I wouldn't see the point in shaking up my world and bringing pain to my husband by being open about polyamory, if I didn't want to live a polyamory lifestyle. That wouldn't make sense to me personally.

And I also agree, that this isn't a church based thing. Sure, being of the faith he is makes it that much harder for him to understand and accept but most men would have an issue with 'their woman' being this way. Personally I'd love to hear from someone who is monogamous and became okay with their partner being poly just to hear about their experience.

I told him about my friend and my feelings towards him. But he also (hopefully) knows that I want to make my marriage work. It's so hard to explain, that whilst I don't need his permission regarding what I do with my relationships or my body, I'm also not planning on jumping into bed with anyone whilst things are like this.

Things are much calmer at home now as he had a chat with a church friend and realised that his behaviour towards me has been wrong. Except he seems to think I'm only poly and having these feelings because he hasn't been a good enough husband. I've tried to explain that that's not the reason, but I don't think he can contemplate anything else because it's not his nature, it's my nature. He didn't read all the poly links I sent him because it felt like he was being told to just roll over and accept.
 
In a way, I wish I'd never used the words polyamory or polyamorous. Part of me feels that it has complicated things, it's given me a label which my husband struggles to understand. It's made me a different person. Really, I'm the same person I always was. I've always struggled with having to choose one partner, and I've always struggled with turning my feelings for others off when in a committed relationship. I wish that instead of saying to him "I'm polyamorous" (bombshell!) I would have said that I'm struggling with the relationship model of monogamy and I want to explore if our marriage could shift at all to explore other ways of living (less of a bombshell??). Hindsight is a wonderful and annoying thing - but perhaps this will help someone else who finds themselves in a similar position.
 
Journeyofawakening said:
Personally I'd love to hear from someone who is monogamous and became okay with their partner being poly just to hear about their experience.
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Journey, I susbscribe to the daily feed of this active Yahoo group which is for mono people with poly partners. The participants are thoughtful, interesting and open about their experiences. I find it very helpful in understanding the persective of the mono partner.
Poly/Mono group


Also, this blogger posts here from time to time and has a very well written and active account of her experiences and thoughts.
"From Baltic to Boardwalk: My Mono/Poly Journey"
 
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HappilyFallenAngel said:
Journey, I susbscribe to the daily feed of this active Yahoo group which is for mono people with poly partners. The participants are thoughtful, interesting and open about their experiences. I find it very helpful in understanding the persective of the mono partner.
Poly/Mono group


Also, this blogger posts here from time to time and has a very well written and active account of her experiences and thoughts.
"From Baltic to Boardwalk: My Mono/Poly Journey"
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Oh, dear. Thanks. :eek:

However, my situation is a bit different in that I knew that Chops was poly when we started our relationship. The Mono/Poly mailing list HFA posted does have more from the point of view of folks who have dealt with their marriages opening up. It's more of a support group at times, and it may be helpful if your husband opens up to reading more about polyamory, or even mono/poly relationships.

If it helps him warm up to it, it's most definitely NOT from the polyamorous point of view (which also means there can be a lot of pain and anger at times).
 
YouAreHere said:
If it helps him warm up to it, it's most definitely NOT from the polyamorous point of view (which also means there can be a lot of pain and anger at times).
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I was thinking that your blog (which is very good) and that group would help Journey gain perspective more than they would influence her husband. I'm always of the mind that improving one's own experience is the best way to positively influence a relationship rather than trying to get someone to see things a certain way. Your blog offers the mono perspective and that can be very helpful to Journey as she (and many of us) continues to seek alliance with a mono partner over discord and separation.
 
Gotcha. And of course, looking for the opposite perspective is why I came here in the first place (and why I'm also subscribed to the sister mailing list). :)
 
Journeyofawakening said:
Really, I'm the same person I always was.
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To you. You live in there with you inside your head.

He does not, and he had another picture of you in HIS mind. So the picture, while more authentic, has changed a lot (to him.)

If you are going to try to stay together I think you could work with the counselors to enable you both to better see the each other in context. He's been unwilling to seeing you fully.

I also don't understand why he cannot see his behavior is out of line from telling HIMSELF that it is (self control). Or you telling him that it is. (him respecting your personal boundaries.) It takes some church friend to tell him he is out of line before he curbs his poor behavior? Might also talk in counseling about that.

He's got a lot of resistance -- what you called inflexible. What's it guarding? Another thing to resolve in counseling.

I hope for your sake that these and other issues can be resolved so you can continue in marriage in a more healthy way.

Galagirl
 
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MightyMax said:
Most monogamous people would also refuse to get into a discussion about opening their relationship, just like most poly people would refuse to get into a discussion about closing it.
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Magdlyn said:
And I am sure you can cite a study on this?
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MightyMax said:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...-really-interested-in-alternate-relationships

This study shows that although many people are okay with ethical non monogamy, they would not consider it for themselves.
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You said, "Most mono people wouldn't even get into a discussion about opening their relationship." Then you cited a study where mono hetero people WERE discussing open relationships.

I agree the study shows that most people studied (average age, 23, who use online fora, and agreed to be in the study) do not seem to want non-monogamous relationships for themselves. Why? They probably had never given it much thought, since consensual monogamy is a rather new and pioneering topic.

I also see the males studied are more open to non-monogamy than the females. Men think with their penises (testosterone does that). So, men are willing to fuck more than one woman. Women think long-term (since they see further in the future, being the ones that get pregnant) and see poly as a threat to the financial security of themselves and potential children.

However, men do consider the risk of "their" woman getting knocked up by another guy. Traditionally, since BCE times, men are reluctant to raise children carrying another man's genetic material. (Adoption is OK, raising kids of a man your wife is shagging, not so much.) One reason men like the non-mono model of FFM Vs, and fear MFM Vs.

I personally agree with things NYCindie has said in the past, about how even people who are committed to monogamy (as default or for personal reasons) would do well to deal openly with practicing monogamy, while having sexual and emotional attractions to others. Most mono people do have these attractions, of course! They deny, bury, repress and even lie about it (as my ex husband did), saying, "I never even LOOK at another man/woman!" Why not admit it to your spouse/partner? You can stay committed to monogamy, but use the attractions to others as enjoyable fantasy to enhance the mono sexual relationship. But no. People stay in the closet. Check out others, check out porn, go to strip clubs for a lap dance, have a cheating affair, secretly, shamefully, hiding it from the spouse, putting up a false front, and causing intimacy to become less and less.

I applaud Journey for having the courage to bring up this subject to her husband, who isn't even a mainstream guy, but a member of a cult-like evangelical "Christian" group. Those people really have their heads in the sand. Those kinds of groups often still insist on the Victorian idea that women do not naturally even have a sex drive, but must be forced or tricked or ordered into having sex. Mr Journey must be very surprised to hear about his wife's sexual desires for another!

Some people raised in fundie cults, especially the women, are so sexually repressed before marriage, that once they get married, even though it is now "OK" to have sex, can hardly bring themselves to do so. This causes all kinds of perversion in these groups. Take the recent scandal with the famous "Quiverfull" Duggar family, for example. Open talk about healthy sexuality was so lacking, it led the oldest son to sexually molest several of his younger sisters. And the parents covered it all up. Sent him to live with another "Christian" adult man who later went to prison for having a collection of child porn. And the elderly leader of their cult was ousted after several young women accused him of molesting them!

Basically I just can't help but say, "Right on!" to Journey's efforts, and "Put on your big boy panties and deal," to her husband. He's lived in a bubble long enough.
 
Re (from GalaGirl):
"It takes some church friend to tell him he is out of line before he curbs his poor behavior?"
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Maybe he was shocked that any church source didn't 100% take his side.
 
Not for me to sort out. Just lifting it up as another area I see for them to sort out in counseling if the goal is to try to stay together in a healthier way.

Galagirl
 
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No, the study showed that whilst many people didn't think non monogamy was wrong for other people, they would not consider it for themselves. It's actually a good study because it shows that many monogamous people do see polyamory as morally acceptable, just not in their relationship. Ie they would not entertain a discussion about opening their relationship.

Your Christian bashing is utterly baseless. You're simply out of touch, inconsiderate and offensive, Magdlyn, and that's why you're unable to understand how someone would feel rather concerned and rejected by their spouse effectively turning their back on everything they built up.

JOA, I think you should spend some time strengthening the relationship
with your husband in an attempt to prove that it isn't about an inadequacy in your marriage.
 
Needingadvice22 said:
...I would like for her to see that what I'm suggesting isn't a lack of love, but a higher and more evolved form of love. An unselfish love...
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I would caution you about looking at poly from this perspective. I wouldn't necessarily categorize poly as being "higher" or "more evolved". "poly" and "mono" (and "love" for that matter) are all concepts. Individual people may resonate with these concepts at different parts of their life journey - but it is the person that evolves. Some people, for instance, may be mono or poly at different points along their personal path - but as they evolve and change they may find that "solo celibacy" is what is required for them at the next stage.

There are many roads to Dublin.
 
Adding to what Jane said, love by definition is unselfish, in my opinion. Polyamory is sometimes *more* selfish than monogamy. Wanting to have only one partner, who has no other partners, isn't inherently selfish. It's just monogamous.
 
Journeyofawakening said:
In a way, I wish I'd never used the words polyamory or polyamorous. Part of me feels that it has complicated things, it's given me a label which my husband struggles to understand. It's made me a different person. Really, I'm the same person I always was. I've always struggled with having to choose one partner, and I've always struggled with turning my feelings for others off when in a committed relationship. I wish that instead of saying to him "I'm polyamorous" (bombshell!) I would have said that I'm struggling with the relationship model of monogamy . . .
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Personally, I never use the word "polyamory" when I talk to anyone about how I do relationships. It's either too confusing or loaded with meaning I don't identify with.
 
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