Confused and Not Sure How to Proceed

Hi.

My topic is not that much of a Polyamory topic, but I'm tired of posting on relationship advice forums about my problems, only to have people shout at me that I'm having an "emotional affair" behind my wife's back, and then calling me names, etc. I sincerely love my wife; I don't think that that is what this is about.

When I met my wife, I was seeing this other girl. Our relationship was kind of clumsy and long distance, but it was intimate, and I thought there was something there. I never really understood what we had between us. It was very up and down. I was doing all the work per say (and seemed to be much more emotionally invested). She was very bad at calling me back and keeping plans (she even admitted to me that she was flaky several times jokingly) but it was good when we finally did hang out. I didn't think much of it, but eventually it got to me, and I ended it. I told her to call me, but this time, I wasn't going to break down and call her. I heard from her 4 months later (asking me to come hang out), but at that point I was in a relationship with my wife (whom I've been with for 6 years now). We talked back and forth a little at the time, but nothing ever came of it and I never heard from her again.

I never really mourned this girl like a break up. All of a sudden, this year, I was travelling for business for a long period over the summer near my her town, and I began to think about her a lot, and became incredibly depressed. It went away eventually, and I stopped thinking about her for a few months. Then, again, all of a sudden, I couldn't get her out of my mind again. I'm now so incredibly down, I can't get out of bed in the morning, and I creep all through her Facebook page.

I PM'd her back in July, and didn't hear back (I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't even check them, I never saw the "Seen" flag on the message. Last week, I emailed her to an email address she was using 6 years ago. I have no idea if she is even using it. I don't have her number anymore. I'm working up to posting to her page a quick one liner "Hey, how have you been?" etc., because at least I will know for sure that she saw that I was trying to get in touch with her.

For those of you that have talked to an ex after a long time, what is it like? Do you feel like they are receptive to talk, or do they just want nothing to do with you? I don't want to restart a relationship with this girl, but I'd like to talk to her a little about what we were all those years ago, just so I can feel better about things. It seems like we never got the chance to be introspective, and, all of a sudden, that hurts tremendously.

I am sorry you struggle.

I'd like to talk to her a little about what we were all those years ago, just so I can feel better about things.

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What do you think she can provide so you choose to feel better about things? Are you not able to provide that for yourself in another way?

To me it sounds like you were dating two women concurrently for a short time. One of them LDR. The LDR one was kinda flaky, maybe you more into her than you into her. It was already fading when you started dating the local woman. Over time? The LDR one finished fading out and the local one became your wife. What more is there that you hope to better define for yourself?

I mean this kindly ok?

I think your behaviors are contributing to your upset. You could choose to change your behaviors.


vs.


To me feelings ensue after behavior. If you want to feel something different, could start behaving in a different way -- in your thoughts, in your actions. Wait, give it time, and see how you feel next.

For those of you that have talked to an ex after a long time, what is it like? Do you feel like they are receptive to talk, or do they just want nothing to do with you?

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Some of my exes are still in contact, but not tight. Which means if I email or FB them, they will eventually reply, but we do not chit chat daily, weekly, monthly, or even yearly. It's more "big news" like -- got married, someone died, etc. Others? Just do not talk ever again. The relationship ran its course. She seems out of touch so rather than put huge effort in getting back in touch? I would put that effort into your own healing instead.

Introspection is something you can do on your own, you don't necessarily have to do it together with her. Maybe you want to write her a letter and then burn it? Not ever send it? Help you let things go? If you are experiencing deep grief -- and are stuck on a stage? Could choose to talk to someone about it. Your wife, a friend, a counselor. I wonder if you think you can only do this with the ex when you could choose to process with others also?

Like posting on the board here... You seem to want to tell your story -- so tell. Get it out of you, and maybe you feel better?

As for contacting the previously flaky ex hoping she will listen and gift you closure -- I'd be more concerned you get served up a big flaky helping and it leads to more UGH than you already have.

You sound like you want to mourn and grieve to me -- it's ok to do that on your own. It is ok to feel sad about a break up. Belated, but perhaps you are wanting to do that now... make the time and space to mourn it and let it go?

Again, I am sorry you are struggling right now. I hope in time you do feel better.

Galagirl

Thanks for your reply, it helps a lot. To maybe answer some of your questions about what I am feeling specifically, it bothers me when people leave my life, probably a lot more than other people. I don't form a lot of relationships with people; each one feels hard fought and genuine to me. So when someone loses touch with me, especially a girlfriend, it really bothers me. I want to stay in touch with them. I don't consider any of them expendable. With this one, it just bugs me right now that I can't get in touch with her. I'm guilty that I haven't tried to talk to her in 6 years. I'm mad at myself because I lost her phone number.

It's also tough for me because she lives in the town I went to college in, and I have a lot of friends and good memories there. I'd like to be more on a friend basis with her now so that I'd feel better about going back there. But obtaining this feels insurmountable right now.

I am going to take a shot in a dark here. I could be totally wrong:


This part below sounds like you do not so much mourn her but that you mourn this idea you have about yourself. I could be totally wrong about that too. But to me it sounds like....


It cannot just be you getting better now at processing the ebb and flow of life and relationships than you used to be in college? Update the belief about your skills and abilities rather than keeping the belief and thinking that you must be treating her badly? She meant something to you then, she means something to you now. She's just not in your daily, active life flow any more.

I don't see how realizing you accepted a fading relationship pretty ok in the end is treating anyone badly.

What is your desired outcome? Are you confusing "guilt" with "regret?" It's ok to have regrets that things don't work out like you hope in a life. Hopefully the things that DO work out outweigh that and you can lead a mostly joyful life.

Galagirl

My biggest regret is that I never got a chance to know her on a deeper level. I feel like the "trying to have a relationship" part got in the way of this. The few times that I can remember in which I lightened up a little, I could talk to her about life, etc. I miss that. I never got enough of that.

Yes, I get that from my wife, and I'm older and better at life, but it still bugs me that I was never able to get to that point with her. It feels like I failed at being her friend more than I failed at being in a relationship with her.


And, no, I don't feel like I'm better at forming relationships now than before. I really don't have any friends outside my wife left.

I cannot tell if your need at this time is just to talk without feedback or you want feedback? FWIW, here's my feedback.

Maybe it isn't so much "confusion to sort which one it is" as much as "having a lot going on and organizing them in order?" Until you can articulate your needs/wants to yourself, I don't think you are going to "un-confuse" or "organize" them easily.

So far these bubbled up...

• wanting to mourn the loss of the ex? Need comfort?
• wanting to visit college town and see friends? Need companionship?
• wanting more friends in general? Need improvement in social skills?

I note you do not state your desired outcome clearly. Are you able to articulate it at this time? Are you lonely and need more people connection/stimulus? And all the rest fall under that main heading? Some other need you can circle from this list?

My biggest regret is that I never got a chance to know her on a deeper level.Yes, I get that from my wife, and I'm older and better at life, but it still bugs me that I was never able to get to that point with her.

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That requires her being willing and able to reveal and disclose about herself. It's NOT all up to you. You being willing to listen and hear about it at that time? Is not her willing to TELL.

It feels like I failed at being her friend more than I failed at being in a relationship with her.

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I see you in the habit of using "feel" rather than "think." (Failing at being her friend) is an evaluation thought. It is not an emotion.

That habit helps create internal confusion between your THOUGHTS and your FEELINGS. You are neither your thoughts or feelings -- you are the person doing the thinking and feeling the emotions.

I see you taking it personally: "I failed as her friend."

Rather than situationally/behaviorally. "We could not have a healthy friendship if she kept flaking out on plans. Friendships need time and space to happen IN. "

If her skill of (following through on plans) was a detriment to the relationship progressing? That's on her. But you seem to internalize it like if something about you were "better" somehow then that would have made her follow through. Thing is, she herself admitted she was weak in that skill at that point in time. She was self aware, but she made no move to change it. Her personal development is all on her, her job. Not yours.

And, no, I don't feel like I'm better at forming relationships now than before. I really don't have any friends outside my wife left.

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Who is responsible for that? You. It is up to you to learn YOUR interpersonal skills better and practice friend making more if that is an area you want to change at this time. Could work on those skills and make more friends.

Galagirl

It isn't anyone else's job to make you feel better. Getting back in touch with her might even turn out to be a lackluster or frustrating experience. Having regrets about your life will do you no good. You're stuck in your head right now, indulging in a fantasy. My advice is to stop dwelling on the past and get on with your life. If you are finding yourself caught up in thoughts about what was and what could have been, to the point where you are depressed, you should recognize that doing so is detrimental to you, and it is keeping you from being awake, alive, and present for the people in your life now, and for your own satisfaction and happiness in the here and now.

Hi DevBilbo,

If you want to post on your old flame's Facebook page, I guess I don't see any harm in that. Just remember that you'd be reaching out to a person who flaked out on you in the first place. A relationship requires the efforts of two people. She was not putting forth her part of the effort. That's why you let her go.

My impression is that she just wasn't as into you as you were into her. The fact that you're agonizing over supposed things you did "wrong," while she seems to be happily carrying on with her own life, tells me that you are still more into her (probably a lot more) than she is into you. It probably sounds cold for me to say that, but it's a bit of reality you have to contend with one way or another.

If you do post on her Facebook page, I'd suggest you don't overthink what you're going to say. Just, "Hey, was thinking about you, hope you're doing well," would suffice. If she's as anxious to contact you as you are to contact her, then she'll respond. If she doesn't respond, then I suggest you try to make peace with the fact that sure enough, she's just not that into you, and never was.

In my own life experience, I had a major crush on a girl and to her I was getting too intense about it. She wanted to wait a few years (for me to finish serving my LDS mission) before even thinking about getting serious with me. Well, by the time those few years had passed, I was no longer interested in pursuing romance with anyone, like not until I was rich and famous. So here she was looking at me with a big smile and sparkly eyes, and I was giving her the "meh" treatment.

I suppose if I could today, if it was something she wanted, I would engage in a relationship with her. Sometimes I feel sad that things didn't work out between me and her. Sometimes I feel like I blew it when I didn't take her by the arm when she was ready for me. I mourn that loss, and always will. And, I have many other regrets in life. Things I wish I'd done differently. People I wish I could have gotten to know better. I experience times of melancholy because of this.

But you know what? I work through the sadness, and life goes on. I am incredibly fortunate in the way things worked out for me and I think it's important to count my blessings. If I have let other people down, I don't want to also let the people down who are in my life right now by spending my precious time with them mourning the loss of the past. I want to be present with them, right here and now. If I could wish the other people back into my life I would do it, but since I can't do it, I try to make the most of what I can do, and what I do have.

Post your Facebook post, but don't punish yourself for "mistakes" of the past, nor entertain fond beliefs that you have something special with this old flame. She's just a regular old person, there's nothing magic about her that could take your pain away. The most I would hope for here is a bit of friendly chat. I don't think she's the type that could embark with you on a journey of profound closure. She's definitely not good at LDR's.

Above all, her response to your overture/s is totally up to her. It's not a matter of, "If I just do/say the right things, she'll remember she loves me and respond in kind." It's a matter of her personality, and what she's inclined to do. Based on her past habits, my bet is that she won't be inclined to respond at all. Whatever interest she used to have, I think that's all permanently in the past.

If I'm wrong, that's great. I just don't want you to get your hopes worked up and end up doubly disappointed. You need to be able to post that Facebook post, and be content with that. Or at least work through the pain that remains. Not all things in life can get closure.

[shrug] You may tell me I'm full of the brown stuff if you wish; it wouldn't be the first time I was. But, thus and so is how it all seems to me for the moment.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

Galagirl, I'm definitely not sure what specifically is bothering me. The main themes that I've dealt with in my life are as follows: social anxiety, feeling like I didn't matter to anyone, feeling like no one wanted me intimately, failure to maintain relationships and to build relationships. I got over those though. I moved to a major city, I travelled, I met new people, I've had many girlfriends. Since I got married, and even after I entered into a relationship with my wife, I noticed that these issues started to come back to some degree. We just don't get out much anymore, and when we do, it's just us. I know that this is something we have to work on, and I'm more than willing to do that with my wife.

I don't think what I am feeling right now is because of these issues in an of themselves, but rather because of this girl specifically. I have other girls from my past that I haven't talked to in a long time, and I don't feel the need to contact them. With this girl though, it ended so abruptly. I told her to call me and then walked away, and that's the last time I saw her in person. I get that most of the blame for how our relationship ended is probably on her and most of the blame for why I feel the way I feel is on me, but I'm still curious about her. I want to understand her a little more. I can get over feeling the depression I have right now, but I'm still going to want to talk to her at some point.

I think what is causing my depression more is that I am somewhat socially connected to her. I'm know her boss of like 10 years very well. She lives in my college town. For all intensive purposes, I could walk in tomorrow and see her, and it would be totally justified. I don't want to do that though.

I would be devastated if I knew that she knew I was trying to contact her, and she ignored me. It would hurt me if she outright did not want to have a conversation with me. I get email from my other exes from time to time, and it's really nice. I don't hesitate to talk to them, and its very friendly. I enjoy when I get a "like" or a comment from them online. I know this girl is a good person, that I'm sure of. She has some character flaws just like everyone does, but she's not heartless. I've been with women who legitimately don't care about you. I know what that looks like. I'm fairly certain that she is not like that.

Bottom line, it would mean a lot to me if she still considers me a friend. That's all I want out of this. I want to know if I matter to her.

I'm having a hard time pulling the trigger on the Facebook wall post.

So this is inner conflict?

You want this:

Bottom line, it would mean a lot to me if she still considers me a friend. That's all I want out of this. I want to know if I matter to her.

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But you do not want to ask and find out this:

I would be devastated if I knew that she knew I was trying to contact her, and she ignored me.

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It would hurt me if she outright did not want to have a conversation with me.

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Sounds like you could discern which is the greater want:

• The want to know, so you ask if she considers you a friend
• The want to to be free of knowing that she doesn't consider you a friend, so you do not ask
• The want to be free of knowing that she doesn't want to talk to you at all. So you do not ask.

To me it seems like 2:1 for "do not ask" if going just by that alone. I would let it go. If it makes you feel better, could label it "past friends, just not active friends right now" in your mind so you CAN let it go in relative peace. What blocks you from letting it go?

Right now you sound lonely and like you & wife could get out more. And feeling that is triggering memories of this woman -- which is memory of a time where you were feeling all blah too. So... work on not being so lonely with wife so you move on to feel something else and get less memory triggered? Could that help any? Is something else triggering this... malaise? You and wife ok in that relationship?

Galagirl

Is your wife aware of the effort you're putting into contacting another woman?

GalaGirl said:

• The want to know, so you ask if she considers you a friend
• The want to to be free of knowing that she doesn't consider you a friend, so you do not ask
• The want to be free of knowing that she doesn't want to talk to you at all. So you do not ask.

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If I don't ask, I'll never know if she doesn't consider me a friend. I feel I could get over it if I knew this. It's just hard for me to accept that this is a possibility.

As for me and my wife, everything is great. Yes, I do wish we were more socially active, but aside from that I have no complaints.

WhatHappened said:

Is your wife aware of the effort you're putting into contacting another woman?

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No, she doesn't, and no she wouldn't like it if she knew. I realize that its not nice of me, but I feel very strongly about it.

The only other people I talked to about it are my parents, and they, without batting an eye, both said I should contact this girl. They're position was that, just cause you get married, it doesn't mean you give up your individual life. And that its better to not have any regrets in life. They also said that as you get older and you are together longer, exes aren't that big of a deal anymore.

I am guilty of going behind my wife's back for this, but I feel very strongly about it.

If I don't ask, I'll never know if she doesn't consider me a friend. I feel I could get over it if I knew this. It's just hard for me to accept that this is a possibility.

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Then it sounds to me like you lean toward asking. Could ask and be done with it.

Your parents are right -- exes are not that big a deal. I don't see why you wouldn't tell your wife about it since this is preying on your mind so heavily. IME people do sometimes ask their spouses for encouragement or support when they are having a hard time with something.

I think being decisive might bring you some relief. Pick one way or the other -- not this "neither here nor there" thing. That's not serving you well.

Galagirl

DevBilbo said:

No, she doesn't, and no she wouldn't like it if she knew. I realize that its not nice of me, but I feel very strongly about it.

The only other people I talked to about it are my parents, and they, without batting an eye, both said I should contact this girl. They're position was that, just cause you get married, it doesn't mean you give up your individual life. And that its better to not have any regrets in life. They also said that as you get older and you are together longer, exes aren't that big of a deal anymore.

I am guilty of going behind my wife's back for this, but I feel very strongly about it.

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Does feeling very strongly about something impact the consequences to other people? Or make an action okay?

I would suggest that if you can't tell your wife, it most definitely is a big deal in your heart and mind.

My ex husband also felt very strongly about contacting other women and not mentioning it to me. He will certainly never have to regret letting an opportunity slide, but on the other hand, he's now living in a one room apartment paying child support, with no girlfriend in sight. Maybe he's happier there and has no regrets. Or maybe he only regrets that wives tend to also have strong feelings about finding there are things going on behind their backs with other women. I don't really know. (Nor do I care.)

You are on a poly board, and polys pride themselves on openness, honesty, and communication. You are hiding things from your wife, and that very often does not end well. I believe you can remain an individual and still practice honesty with other people, especially your wife.

WhatHappened said:

You are on a poly board, and polys pride themselves on openness, honesty, and communication. You are hiding things from your wife, and that very often does not end well. I believe you can remain an individual and still practice honesty with other people, especially your wife.

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I would love to be open with my wife about this, but I just can't. She has her own issues about me. She's also kind of a hypocrite about this, because she still has an ongoing relationship platonic friendship with one of her exes, yet she gets upset at the possibility of me having any contact, online or otherwise, with my exes. She has talked to exes behind my back without consulting me, to the same extent to what I am trying here.

I'm ok with it. I've told her as much. It doesn't bother me, her ex is actually pretty cool; we get along.

I'm not looking to have an affair; my intentions are honorable.

GalaGirl said:

I don't see why you wouldn't tell your wife about it since this is preying on your mind so heavily.

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My wife is incredibly jealous and protective of me. She tends to view every other woman (that she deems to be attractive) as a threat. I don't like this, I tell her so, but its not going away anytime soon.

Then don't tell wife at this time and ask the exGF is she still considers you a friend so you can lay this inner conflict to rest. Your intentions are honorable and you just want peace.
Again, could be decisive so you can get some relief from inner conflict.

Deal with wife jealousy things next. Even if you are not seeking to polyship, page 5 & 6 might help.

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/images/Jealousy_Updated_10-6-10.pdf

Because if you wife is jealous and overprotective, that's a possible impediment to you making new friends to alleviate your lonely feelings later on. You can't easily make friends and keep friends if your wife has a jealousy attack over it.

Galagirl

DevBilbo said:

My wife is incredibly jealous and protective of me. She tends to view every other woman (that she deems to be attractive) as a threat. I don't like this, I tell her so, but its not going away anytime soon.

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Jealousy is so not attractive... Do you encourage her to be jealous of other women?

Re (from DevBilbo):

"I know this girl is a good person, that I'm sure of. She has some character flaws just like everyone does, but she's not heartless."

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That notwithstanding, you can't be sure that she's inclined to talk to you. Perfectly nice women desire to gracefully bow out of interactions with nice men all the time. This particular woman may have decided you're not a good fit for her. Doesn't mean she thinks you're a bad person but.

Of course I presume all we're talking about is posting something on her Facebook wall. That shouldn't be so hard to do. Just post something -- being aware that she may or may not respond. Totally her decision, and her right to make that decision. You don't like taking that kind of gamble, yet it's obvious that you want to. I say get it over with.