What did I do wrong? Or did I?

Locks

kdt26417 said:

Perhaps a locksmith would work out better.

"Now don't be alarmed, I'm just gonna pull down my pants ..."

Oh wait I get it, it's not a real key or a real lock ... or ... or or ...

Click to expand...

There are always kink friendly locksmiths.
I used to buy tubes of oowdered graphite for newbies.
Also why I need use steel cuffs

Magdlyn said:

Mr Vanilla, while I do suspect "Debbie" and "Ray" and "Dickdomin" are all socks of one frustrated cuckhold wannabe writing all this... stuff... for their own erotic stimulation, remember, google is your friend.

http://www.cb-6000.com/cb_3000_details.html

It comes with 2 keys.

Click to expand...

I did not see inside the box. I now know that there are two keys. Before now I was unaware. I have had people in my past tell me that my real life is not real. And that made it hard for me to find anyone to talk to me many years ago when I was having trouble dealing with my 1st wife cucking me.

I was twenty-four years old, my wife was sleeping with everyone. My first wife got pregnant by our neighbor, who happened to be a biker and looked nothing like me. My parents knew that my wife had been sleeping with our neighbor but never said anything. I liked her sleeping around because it got me off, but when my wife got pregnant by another guy I looked for help. I was told by five different counselors that they felt I was bragging and didn't want to help me.

My best friend got my wife pregnant with our second child. Again I looked for help from professionals and they told me that I was trying to make my fantasies believable. Our third child was fathered by a guy I worked with, who moved away before his child, my youngest, was even born. I have raised these three children as my own, and I now am married to another woman who has sex with as many men as she can. And people still think that my life is some kind of fantasy.

On our wedding night we actually did have a gang bang. Debbie had sex with seventeen men on our wedding night. And just prior to our wedding, minutes before the ceremony, Debbie had sex with another man. This rings of all those cuckold stories you read on the Internet, yet it happened on my wedding day and wedding night. We also go to an adult theater on most Friday nights. Debbie does any guy there who wants to do her, and she does it wearing a blindfold and always bareback. Fantasy? No! Our reality.

I tried for 28 years to make my ex-wife love me, to no avail. It took me and my ex divorcing for her to realize she loved me. Debbie loves me, but she also has a lot of baggage. Because of my sexual kinks and my physical set backs, I fell for Debbie because when we first met she told me, "I love to suck cock." I had not had sex with my wife, or anyone else for almost two decades, some, mostly, my choice. When my ex asked me one day why I couldn't love her without having to have sex with her, that was the last day I asked her for sex, or kissed her or held her hand, because I wanted her to know that I loved her.

My choice to not have sex with my ex was because I wanted her to know that I loved her, yet she felt unloved because she didn't mean what she said the way I took it. My ex and I went to poly and sex parties all the time, and I found out that women do not find me attractive. By going to gay spas and bars I realized men weren't attracted to me, either. So, I got with Debbie because I saw in her what I thought I needed. And she has fulfilled mine, as well as several other men's, fantasies.

Our recent life changes have occurred because we have both enjoyed and wanted another man to be the Man of our house. The thrashing came about from an idea I had that it would help Debbie get over a lot of her past. And I kind of like pain, sometimes. We bought a violet wand a few years ago and Debbie found out what my pain tolerance was, and she was impressed. But Debbie has recently learned that she likes thrashing me because it helps her deal with her thoughts of the past and my current actions that she doesn't like.

Men who have come to our house for gang bangs, as well as the men at the adult theater, have told us that they have never met people like us, many have read about people like us, but none had ever met anyone like us in person. Davison, himself, has said that he never thought people like us really existed either. Surprise, people like us do exist, and we live lives too many people find unbelievable.

If we were able to post pictures here, I could post pictures of Debbie with innumerable men. I am not going to spend a lot of time trying to convince people that the life I live I really live. Debbie saw this forum as a place to look for answers. I saw this as a forum to post updates to and see what advice we might get from others.

When Debbie had posted on Fetlife, Swinglife, and other sites like that she met a lot of men she had sex with, but never really got any good advice. Fetlife, Swinglife and Cupid were sites that got Debbie men, but no advice. I have read several other posts on this site and found much of the information and responses to be very helpful in nature. And I liked that about this site. If our life is too unbelievable for anyone to be able to give advice on, I understand, because I have heard that for far too many years.

In closing of this post, I want to remind people here that there are many people who can't imagine a woman romantically involved with, and living with, more than one man, or two women living with a man they both love.

Hi Vajra,

I think it is not so much the life you live, but the way that you and Debbie have talked about it. Including all the detailed descriptions of your, Debbie's, and Davison's sexual activity makes it difficult for me to read past it and offer advice. I am also trying to understand the D/s dynamic that you two have adopted - YKINMKBYKIO, is what I view it as. Still, with your and Debbie's abuse histories, I am concerned about how some of the aspects of your relationship serve to further your depression and continue abuse against you, which it sounds like is all you've known your whole life. Like others who are more experienced than me, there is a line between D/s and abuse.
I'm sorry that past therapists haven't believed you, but I'm glad to see you're involved with Margaret. Hope things continue to go well for you with her. I don't want to speak for everyone, but I think that the updates are welcome and there are certainly people here to provide advice. But more general updates, without a specific poly relationship question, might be best suited for the blog section. Glad that you feel more accepted in your relationship.

reflections said:

Hi Vajra,

I'm sorry that past therapists haven't believed you, but I'm glad to see you're involved with Margaret. Hope things continue to go well for you with her. I don't want to speak for everyone, but I think that the updates are welcome and there are certainly people here to provide advice. But more general updates, without a specific poly relationship question, might be best suited for the blog section. Glad that you feel more accepted in your relationship.

Click to expand...

Okay. Well, I have made it possible for Debbie to get beyond a good amount of her past, through thrashing. I have allowed her to have other lovers, and now a lover who is what we have both been looking for is living with us. Because Davison brought up the chastity, I am now wearing a chastity devise. Debbie is happy. Davison is very happy. And I have a happier wife.

Is what we are, or have been, doing really that bad if in the end everyone is happier?

I guess I don't understand how thrashing helps her get past her history of being abused and acting abusive towards you. Isn't that continuing abuse? I'm not asking as a judgment of your relationship with her - I'm asking because I'm curious how that works. Like I said, I'm not experienced in the kink world, though I know a lot about people who are survivors of abuse. If other people have more experience in this area, feel free to chime in. It sounds like you're her emotional and physical punching bag, but if you're consenting and even want that, who am I to judge? Merely, I wonder what that boundary between abuse and domination is.

Your question of "isn't it okay" is not a question I can answer. That's for you to answer, and Margaret too. It sounds like with the D/s dynamic, you are getting a lot more acceptance for your feminine traits, and that part sounds lovely to me. I hope you know that this is all coming from a caring place.

I found this in another post, "Originally Posted by Candiedlove View Post -
Being poly isn't just about "getting" something from the other person. It's about both of you enjoying yourself the way you want and helping each other be as happy as possible."

I thought about this. I am happier because Debbie is happier because of flogging me and having me in chastity. Debbie is also happier because of Scott and Tom and other lovers. Debbie is very happy because we now have Davison living with us and he has become her primary lover. I am happier because Davison knows Debbie in ways I never have. Debbie is getting over a lot of her past because of me, with Davison's help.

I am happiest when I see Debbie with other men. Debbie is happiest when she knows that she is making me happy. And Davison is helping Debbie do that.

"both of you enjoying yourself the way you want and helping each other be as happy as possible." Isn't that what we're doing?

Magdlyn said:

Mr Vanilla, while I do suspect "Debbie" and "Ray" and "Dickdomin" are all socks of one frustrated cuckhold wannabe writing all this... stuff... for their own erotic stimulation, remember, google is your friend.

Click to expand...

I do not know Debbie and Ray personally, but given the ratio of cuck wannabe to cucks doing, I would say go ahead and suspect all you want.

I have met them. I think if you read the psychological details bot Ray and Debbie place inside, it rings quite true to me.

My advice is strictly generic.

It should be used only for educational purposes.

DM

My biggest question had been whether or not Debbie uses condoms with all these men she sleeps with. I guess the answer is no. With the world the way it is, I would have a hard time having sex with so many strangers without protecting my sexual health. Do you and she get frequent testing to make sure that none of these strangers she's going bare back with, both at the gang bangs and at the adult theater, are passing diseases on to her and through her to other partners? In an age where AIDS exist send where you can get cervical cancer from some forms of HPV, this just seems reckless (not to mention other STIs).

Immune systems

Condoms:

Not wanting to present the idea that people happy with condoms should just throw them away, a few stats. There seems to be something about sewer rats that give them enormous strength.

I was tested for years, thousands of partners, I have never been able to use a condom successfully. Trust me I have tried, with experts. Except for two cases of crabs and one run in with The Drip, all of those in highschool, I've never contracted or been the passive carrier of any disease.

Now there are certain populations I shy away from, but I suspect that a sewer rat like myself, might have some unknown immunity. I do not imagine, I have been that lucky. I do know there are a few men and women who are being followed,having tested positive, but failing to show any signs of the actual illness.

Finally, be fore my big disclaimer. Statistics are on your side that your partner does not have an std. Stats like half the whore in Bangkok are infected is pure church fear tactics. And there is a girl in Holland who openly advertises, Got HIV? Me too, we don't have to use condoms. She makes a fortune.

Now for my disclaimer:
When my wife and I were first dating we had some major events. First was our accidental meeting in a store I usually walk around and she does not usually shop in. Her fault on both count to accept my offer of coffee, and compound it with manipulating a dinner invitation out of me.

Our third meeting was dinner at my house. All men should know how to read palms (crosses the touch barrier while distracting her with a fascinating story all about her), give a great massage (if you need a list of benefits from this one, go give yourself a haircut with the rotary mower), and how to cook, dinner at your house is about as close as you are ever going to get to perfectly smooth Segue to Bed.

Dinner at my house, she thinks she is safe, only second dinner date and she is having her period, should stop any self respecting gentleman, all of which I am from time to time, just not this time. To bed, wonderful lovemaking, sleep, whoops little spot on sheet in morning. I have three sisters, one mother one nanny until I was twelve or more, only 3,000+ partners! little blood on sheets is not phasing me.

Third night, she shows up with new Kingsized, high quality towelket (yes imagine a sheet make out of a really nice towel) I am sorry for ruining your sheet.

I learned some years later, through my American girlfriend at the time, my wife took them, only four, out to dinner and informed them she loved them all, and they could stay as long as they liked, just so long as they knew I was her husband. She decided that on our third date.

So I give advice, and try to make it very useful to the people I am writing to, but hopefully it is useful to you lurking vultures. I do not, after my marriage and engagement to my wife, feel i even remotely have a clue as to what is going on.

Now that I have adult daughters, they made sure to remind me in the most loving of ways, as did their mother before them.

Doms don't pick the route or plan the dance card. Sure we get to look cool with our hands on the wheel, but Autonav, on her hands and knees has laid out the map.

I always told my wife what to do, about six months after she decided I should.

I'm in charge here pay attention, this is a proclamation from on high.

When you have your shit together, you really get a large mound, don't you know.

Yes, at this point you are supposed to kiss the ring, but really We only urge it. It is completely optional. We would not want to interfere with your burning cross or painting the mall walls Jackson Pollack style with BBs from that kicky waist belt.

After all we all have morals.

D

Hannahfluke said:

My biggest question had been whether or not Debbie uses condoms with all these men she sleeps with. I guess the answer is no. With the world the way it is, I would have a hard time having sex with so many strangers without protecting my sexual health. Do you and she get frequent testing to make sure that none of these strangers she's going bare back with, both at the gang bangs and at the adult theater, are passing diseases on to her and through her to other partners? In an age where AIDS exist send where you can get cervical cancer from some forms of HPV, this just seems reckless (not to mention other STIs).

Click to expand...

Debbie and I both give plasma. They test for diseases that can be found in blood, and we have a friend who is a physician that we see regularly. Yes, we both get tested. I have not had much actual sex for a very long time, but because Debbie does have sex with so many partners, she does get checked regularly.

reflections said:

I guess I don't understand how thrashing helps her get past her history of being abused and acting abusive towards you. Isn't that continuing abuse? I'm not asking as a judgment of your relationship with her - I'm asking because I'm curious how that works. Like I said, I'm not experienced in the kink world, though I know a lot about people who are survivors of abuse. If other people have more experience in this area, feel free to chime in. It sounds like you're her emotional and physical punching bag, but if you're consenting and even want that, who am I to judge? Merely, I wonder what that boundary between abuse and domination is.

Click to expand...

I have seen a positive change in Debbie since she has been flogging me and using the paddle on me. Debbie likes how she feels when she flogs me and paddles me. She says that she likes the feeling of being able to get out her aggressions with me. It isn't really abuse. I like the sting of the paddle and the flogging. And I like that Debbie feels that it has helped her feel that she has been able to release a lot of her hostility related to her past.

I was beat up a lot when I was a child. That was abuse. What Debbie does to me, I allow her to do because I love her. Even when Debbie is not flogging me or using the paddle on me, she has begun spanking me, playfully. She likes my submissive side more now than she ever has. And I think that is very positive.

Your question of "isn't it okay" is not a question I can answer. That's for you to answer, and Margaret too. It sounds like with the D/s dynamic, you are getting a lot more acceptance for your feminine traits, and that part sounds lovely to me. I hope you know that this is all coming from a caring place.

Click to expand...

The fact that I am wearing panties and Debbie is seeing me as more feminine is a plus. The chastity devise is helping in that way as well. Davison has also been very helpful in making me more feminine, and for Debbie to see me as more feminine. Davison is new to being a DOM, per se'. But Davison has taken his place as the Man of our house. He has become Debbie's primary lover. This being the case, I have been able to become Debbie's man in waiting. Me being able to bathe Davison recently made Debbie see me as very feminine. And Davison is very much loving that he has two women at his disposal. I like that, too.

Re (from Dickdomin):

"There seems to be something about sewer rats that give them enormous strength."

Click to expand...

Sewer rats have acquired immunity to HIV (through exposure to it)? therefore humans can acquire immunity to HIV (through exposure to it) as well? I guess I'm confused by the analogy.

Re:

"Statistics are on your side that your partner does not have an STD."

Click to expand...

No offense but to me that's almost like saying that statistically you probably won't get in a car wreck, therefore airbags, seatbelts, and driver sobriety are superfluous.

Re (from Dickdomin):

"I used to buy tubes of oowdered graphite for newbies. Also why I need use steel cuffs"

Click to expand...

Not sure how cuffs and oowdered graphite would help the particular situation in question, but as a newb to this stuff I'll take your word.

"Here, put these cuffs on. Then the lock on your thingy will pop open."

"Now I'm just gonna light up this oowdered graphite. Now this won't hurt ..."

Re (from Magdlyn):

"It comes with two keys."

Click to expand...

Ohhh, okay. All is well in the butler's world after all.

(And there does seem to be something rather sock puppetish about all this ...)

Re (from Dickdomin):

"I have met them."

Click to expand...

Uh, I thought you were in Inja. Did you travel to Colorado recently?

Re (from Vajra):

"I have raised these three children as my own, and I now am married to another woman who has sex with as many men as she can. And people still think that my life is some kind of fantasy."

Click to expand...

You understand our position, the only evidence we have to go on is your written word. As an atheist, I tend to be mighty skeptical about things that don't have solid proof.

But, whether fantasy or fact, I am willing to play along. Is there some kind of help you need with your situation? Just let me know what it is and I'll give it my best shot. I was kind of under the impression that things were starting to go quite well for you, Debbie, and Davison, so I wasn't as concerned as I have been in the past.

Re (from Vajra):

"Is what we are, or have been, doing really that bad if in the end everyone is happier?"

Click to expand...

I can't speak for others but that works for me.

If I knew what I was talking about

Yes I am in Inja. I missed all the location data concerning Ray and Debbie's escapades. How does this help Debbie's abuse I would say read Fritz Perles's Gestalt. It says it clearly and is sort if a counterpointe to Ram Dass's Be here Now is rather a Be There Now. Its therapeutic efficacy is documented.

My stats are not mine but musings of an emergency room physician at Bellveu, which has a history of leading the way in discoveries, first surgeries and breakthrough therapies of which is not seen in the next ten institutions combined. He knew me during my periods of NYC, my sojourn to San Francisco, Maui, and Japan. I was not at that time celibate. Now I tend towards the upper class, because when we are talking about thrills, nothing beats a nice girl for really letting go and get into the spirit of things. Now much of their very naughty thoughts do run to the rougher parts of town and do involve large numbers of hard working men. So odds are, but as he has told me ninety percent of his drug overdose deaths are all in the cut and not the drug. The other ten were low dealer busted, poor junkie finds someone four steps up the ladder, his normal spoon is superman sized and he is dead a few seconds after he let go of the rubber band.

So research was being done on immune systems, these included the lab rats and sewer rats, plus data on kids in slums against kids in rich white disinfected countertops. Sewer rats nine times out of ten didn't even turn on their immune system. The well fed ghetto kids, the one who ate meat and real vegetables, but lived in the ghetto, managed to never get sick.

So if I am coming in contact with HIV and other STDs, why have I never tested positive? I am that lucky? Do you really believe that? I sure don't. So Debbie and I are very lucky, or we have immune systems which have developed a capability to not accept the gift being offered. It is the only explanation that makes any sense to me. If you have another, I am listening.

I am also not recommending anyone go out and test this idea. I just know my life and its experience and this man who sees more sick people in a day than most doctors see in a week,says this is what he thinks we need to be looking towards in medicine. He says I am lucky, I just think I put in the hard time and this is Gawd's reward, Jim and Tammy Baker just move on over. There' sa new preacher in town

Hey, I'm not sick, so if there is something there, some smart guy figure out a way to test and understand this.

Other rambling thoughts include Ray helping the groups of men into a more cohesive group of men, help them establish businesses built around Debbie in the center.

This is what a Circle of Friends is all about. Few more wives like her and you have a corporation which will bring you a much better quality of life.

Now I have been celibate for the last nearly ten years. This is not some religious thing. I had daughters to raise. Last one's a cooked goose in May, so...but and I have not knowingly ever gone to bed with someone I knew had an STD, but certainly have gone to bed with more than a few who could easily been the kind a girl who might be considered high risk. I know and you were just starting to think St Francis of Assisi, and I gotta go say something like that, we had the pure virginal girls, we were mainly just focused on the big throbbing cocks and staying away from the total picture, but... Really... Organic living comes from the word organize, to bring into order. Nature is the only book you need. We've tried pretty everywhichway of living, so pretty easy to look and see which parts work.

The Japanese society is roiling with tension, there is likely more tension there than in the rest of the world. There are also love hotels all over the place, everyone is getting laid, they all act pure, stoic but the fact remains, I'm completely loyal, I've never gone to a love hotel with a gaijin, such a great place to blush up on my Engrish. Wa. Harmony abounds in Japan, plus they have the most and the best onsen (hot springs) in the world in a climate perfect to enjoy them in.

So I guess for me getting laid, back when I did, and hopefully will be continuing soon lent an exposure to many different women and through them many men as well, and in Debbie's case where she is ingesting the sperm of what I am guessing is nearing the ten thousand mark (oh Debbie and Ray any stats for the children to put in their cornflakes?), seems to have caused us to perhaps have immune systems which are rather sewer rat in how robust they are. I do not purport to have perfect science to back myself up, but my friend's argument and the research, certainly points in an interesting direction or two.

I am glad if it true or that my against all odds lucky holds up

The collective they

"I have met them."

kdt26417 said:

Uh, I thought you were in Inja. Did you travel to Colorado recently?

.

Click to expand...

We were speaking more in the collective voice, for as I mentioned, I'd met a couple of two who had the most modern of thoughts on marriage and my place in it.

I have seen about fifteen Circle of Friends begin. The core around a few beautiful women and before you know it, they have very comfortable lives, if by any chance you happen to be a material girl living in a material world.

It be those they I be speaking of, sir.

Will do hope this clarifies the situation and any ambiguity which might have insinuated itself into the topic at hand.

As best as I can see Debbie is doing absolutely everything wrong, in exactly the right manner. Ray cheated and already read Be Here Now and it is all coming back to him. Anyone notice Debbie has totally forgotten to go to lost and found about her luggage. This therapist really sucks. You should get much more Ophra for your insurance dollar these days.

Is Davidson going to attend? I think the kinky therapist should be giving us her professional opinion on how well Davidson fills out the Job description. Ray could give a quick demo of his fluffer-nutter, not to take away from the deep analysis of Debbie's gestalt therapy by using whip and paddle. I for one am interested, because so much of my life has been trapped in the lesbian's body, trapped in a heterosexual man and I tend to find those sub-bi, lipstick lesbians, which means I am welding the whip. I am as a therapist, not there to get my yahyahs off.

Whereas, Debbie has been hauling around mom like a wound up twisted monkey on her back. So reverse Gestalt sounds like better than sweeps of Jerry Springer back to back with Ophra.

No one has been caused any medical or anatomical damage as I read these reports. So I say, marshal on blindly into the dark, there is another night up ahead and seems the ship is dry and stable. Sail on.

Oh, you didn't meet *them them,* you met them as in them who could be categorized in the same category as them. I think that's what we're gettin' at?

Re: Margaret ... yeah, what's up with that? Are Ray and Debbie (and Davison?) still seeing her?

Re (from Dickdomin):

"So if I am coming in contact with HIV and other STDs, why have I never tested positive?"

Click to expand...

Well, we will consider it a mystery for now. Maybe it is extraordinary luck, maybe it is special immunity. It's just that my understanding of how immunity works is that first the body catches the disease, then it develops an immunity to the disease while fighting the disease. So to develop HIV immunity, you'd need to come down with HIV first, and then recover from it. Since we don't know how to cure HIV with artificial help, it's quite a challenge to imagine the body curing itself of HIV without artificial help. That's all I'm saying.

One other thing I'm curious about: Has Debbie ever been pregnant? If not, how was pregnancy avoided with all that unprotected sex? She must have gotten her tubes tied a long time ago, don't you think? I'm just sayin'.

Oh wait; she could have an IUD. Or take the pill. Right. There's more than just condoms for birth control. (And it's not my business; I was just wondering.)

kdt26417 said:

Well, we will consider it a mystery for now. Maybe it is extraordinary luck, maybe it is special immunity. It's just that my understanding of how immunity works is that first the body catches the disease, then it develops an immunity to the disease while fighting the disease. So to develop HIV immunity, you'd need to come down with HIV first, and then recover from it. Since we don't know how to cure HIV with artificial help, it's quite a challenge to imagine the body curing itself of HIV without artificial help. That's all I'm saying.

Click to expand...

I do not dispute your grasp of current medical and immunonological general belief and wisdom concerning both contraction through exposure and development of immunity. Perhaps this is akin to Jonas Salk and his work with cow maidens, though I do say his research could have included a great deal more information on said cow maiden's perhaps with photographs and diagrams. Maybe a short instructional video in the adult educational section on YouTube.

One other thing I'm curious about: Has Debbie ever been pregnant?

Click to expand...

While it is quite easy to ask if a husband is the sire, I do think the aforementioned daughter does in most likelihood place her in that group of women who have been pregnant.

If not, how was pregnancy avoided with all that unprotected sex?

Click to expand...

My impression is Ray was there protecting her all along, except for those few encounters with Tom and Bill or whatever their names were.

There's more than just condoms for birth control. (And it's not my business; I was just wondering.)

Click to expand...

I thought they were just used to the men today that feeling of being wrapped in plastic, like their grandmother's couch. I don't think any of us thought a man who is known as Mr. Switzerland would be making condoms. Chocolate coocoo clocks with gold accents, maybe, but condoms seem somehow, so much more German.

Condoms

Just a final aside. When I see the letters con and dom placed directly beside one another, I do find my youthful paranoia, might be clouding my judgement with FBI agents rather peeking in the curtains whilst the CIA and the CDC were cooking something up in Nati.

Doms are by their nature a cautious and suspicious lot.

Magdlyn said:

Mr Vanilla, while I do suspect "Debbie" and "Ray" and "Dickdomin" are all socks of one frustrated cuckhold wannabe writing all this... stuff... for their own erotic stimulation, remember, google is your friend.

Click to expand...

Dunno about the third, but the writing styles of the first two are very, very similar in ways that are unlikely to be coincidence - most particularly, the cadence of when someone is referred to by name or by pronoun, and excessive dependence on the verb "agree". There's also a harder to define similarity in sentence structure and flow, a tendency to include a boatload of irrelevant (yet titillating!) sexual details, and long-ass essays that need to be split into multiple posts.

Additionally, from what I can tell, there's no discernible individuality in their personas. Everything "Debbie" reports about "Ray" is exactly confirmed by "Ray's" posts, and vice versa. There's none of the subtle reframing and correction that happens when two people report about the same situation. They don't have two distinct-but-similar takes on things, they have onetake that is framed twice. It's "He hates my mother" and "I hate her mother" instead of "He hates my mother" and "I don't hate her mother, I just hate having to spend any time with her."

YMMV, but this is seeming more and more like someone's erotic fiction, about which I am tempted to offer literary criticism.

I've been thinking this is a singular someone trolling for a while.

Bluebird said:

I've been thinking this is a singular someone trolling for a while.

Click to expand...

It's been pretty obvious from the first post. Even the OP's screen name is DebbieandRay, 2 personas in one. This poster doesn't want "advice," imo, just sexual stimulation and attention.