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  #61  
Old 10-20-2012, 11:54 PM
Vicki82 Vicki82 is offline
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I've been thinking a lot about what you wrote, Cleo, and you've probably hit on a lot of the reasons why I did it. I honestly never felt interested in reading her blog before and I think part of it was me worrying that he was lying to me. And that IS a bad thing, because it's not something I want. Worrying is certainly not productive, and I don't want to be in a relationship where I have to worry about it.

I asked myself if I thought he lied to me and the answer is no. Do I think it's possible that he'll keep things from me, or perhaps interpret questions narrowly? Yes. I'm not wild about that, but again, it is what it is, and I can choose to accept that risk or not. I don't think he is looking to lie to me or keep things from me. He's just doing the best he can, like I am. I'm not perfect. I have made a concerted effort to be completely open and honest with him even when it makes me nervous, because I'm pretty sure that most people in relationships do keep at least part of themselves back; they aren't open and honest from the beginning. I've been off the shelf for so long that I don't even remember how to behave early in a relationship.

In context, now that he's explained in more detail about his relationship with her, I think I must have badly overreacted to his blog. If he's not having an emotional relationship with her in the same sense that he is with me, then I guess I can see why he doesn't think it's a big deal not to tell her about me if they're just doing kink. But I still think he handled it pretty badly because I can't imagine he didn't think that it was going to hurt me. In hindsight, it feels like things have been off since that night. He told me he was annoyed and confused that I read her blog, but that it wouldn't change anything between us. I wonder if it has though. Which of course makes me wish that I hadn't told him... see what I mean about keeping things back? But despite being a damn good liar, I really hate lying. It makes me feel dirty. It's like the more I want to keep something from someone, the more I feel like it's on my mind and I can't stop thinking about it until I tell them. And I really don't like it. But I'm not perfect, so I can't expect perfection either. Besides, someone perfect would not be fun to be with, I think!

But I think the other things are part of it, too. I am really missing our connection. It's not even just the not seeing him, hard as it is. It's not getting to talk to him nearly as often as we used to. I worry a lot about what will happen even if things go back to "normal" in December; will this amount of time apart have changed our relationship? It's not like we have years of history built up to keep it going. His life is going on without me, and while I'm happy that he has other good things in his life, I feel out of the loop I guess. I don't know that I am expressing that well.

And I just don't even know what I'm "entitled" to expect. I know he's busy and tired and has his wife and his sub's needs to deal with, so I don't really know where I fit in. It's not just the fitting in either; it's that I know he needs downtime too. Pretty much every day since we met, we have at least emailed to say goodnight even if we couldn't talk. Last night he didn't email me goodnight and I haven't heard from him yet today. It makes me a little bit sad, especially since he knows it is something that means a lot to me. But I don't want to complain about it because I don't want to be another obligation. He already knows, so if he's not emailing me, I can assume he had a reason since he's not a jerk. I'm sure I don't do a great job of portraying him; it's tough to explain an issue and give ALL the background. But he is a good man and he treats me very well. Before all this, I was happier than I've ever been in my life. I just feel like I'm stuck right now, waiting.

And it's not just that, but there needs to be some fun, too. I'm tired of having heavy conversations about issues. I'm tired of feeling crappy because I miss him. I liked it when we just had fun and flirted and chatted with each other. It just gets harder to do that when I'm feeling lonely and down, or I'm still thinking about the issues that are bothering me. I know if we got to see each other it would make a big difference at least in how I feel... but we can't.

It's been nearly seven weeks, and it's going to be longer. I am hurting, and there really isn't much that can be done about it. You are right that at the moment there is a lot about our relationship that I don't like. But before all this crap pretty much ate his private life, I was deliriously happy. So all I can really do right now is keep swimming and wait to see what happens when the crap is finished. I don't know what we'll have then but it's worth it to me to find out.

Although I have to admit that I am still pretty down about the MFM. That was something that was important to me. I'm not sure how I feel about doing it now and that bothers me, too. I believe I am overreacting about it but now every time I think about it, I think about him doing it with her. It feels like some of the specialness is lost if that makes any sense. It was going to be the first time for L, H, and me. But there isn't anything that can be done about it now so I don't know why my sad feelings aren't going away. It's done. Period.

I'm just feeling lonely. It's been nice having H home for the past few weeks but he leaves on Monday for another trip and I'm going to be alone. I have a feeling this is going to be tough since I'm still feeling fragile.
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Last edited by Vicki82; 10-21-2012 at 12:28 AM.
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  #62  
Old 10-24-2012, 01:07 AM
Vicki82 Vicki82 is offline
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Feeling way overemotional tonight so I figured I'd vent here so I can hopefully get some sleep instead of dissecting my life over and over in the dark. I do most of my thinking at night so whenever something is bothering me, I have trouble sleeping. Comments gladly welcomed.

L and I haven't really talked since last Wednesday. Things seem to be back to "normal" between us, by that I mean the way things were during this crazy busy time but before the issue with the blogs, but things with the renos have been insane and I know he is working very hard. He's sent me several apologetic emails and tells me that he misses me and wants very much to spend time with me and that he will try to make time for me this week.

Last night we talked for just a little bit, and he told me that his wife was going out tonight and if we could Skype. I said I was free after my son goes to bed at seven. So, I got excited because it's been so long... four weeks since our last Skype conversation. Then I got a message half an hour ago that his wife got home before my son had even gone to bed, so we couldn't.

I just feel like crying. He just literally has no room in his life for me right now. He says he feels like it's been so long since we talked last, and I'm sure he is just thinking it's been about a week, but it feels like a lot longer than that to me. I feel so disconnected from his life. Intellectually I understand that all that is going on is a hell of a lot of work and not nearly enough downtime, but emotionally, I just feel so lonely and unhappy.

I never thought it would be this hard to just kind of put things on hold for a few months. I know what's going on, it's not that he doesn't want to talk to me, so why shouldn't I be able just to wait? But it's felt so crushing to me. Today is seven weeks from the last time we saw each other and I still really have no idea when we will be together again, except that it will be after US Thanksgiving. I need so badly just to feel his arms around me again.

I should clarify- it's not that we're not talking at all. We texted a little bit today and sent a couple of IMs. What I'm missing the loss of is what we had before the House Renovation That Ate His Life. We used to text during the day and then chat for hours in the evening, every single day. Until this happened, not a single day had gone by since we met that we didn't talk at least a little bit, even when he was away for work trips in Europe or Asia he made time for me. It was still a rare treat to get Skype or a phone call, but we talked so much that I just felt so loved and connected. And we saw each other at least once a month. Going from that to this? I don't even really have words to explain how I feel as a result, except that it's lousy.

I don't know if I can handle this. But if I give up now, I've gone through the past few months for nothing and I'd be throwing away a potentially very rewarding relationship. But I feel like my heart is breaking. I really don't do LD very well. My H travels a lot for work and since I thrive so much on intimate touch, I always had a hard time coping with him going away. But he's home much more than not, and he's never gone for more than three weeks at once and then I usually have him for at least a week. This loneliness is crushing. When I have H around, it's easier, but it's not like H can substitute for L. I am very happy in my relationship with H, and things are satisfying between us. I am longing for intimacy with L, even if it's not sexual. Although I must admit I am missing that, too.

I went out for coffee today with a guy from FetLife and might have something casual with him, and I am seeing one of my previous FWB on Thursday. It's not anywhere close to how I'd feel with H or L, but I'm hoping it will at least distract me a little.
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Last edited by Vicki82; 10-24-2012 at 01:23 AM.
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  #63  
Old 10-24-2012, 07:28 PM
Vicki82 Vicki82 is offline
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Still feeling overemotional today. I actually just want to crawl into bed and sleep for a while, since that usually helps, but I've got my toddler at home with me today so it's not really a viable option.

I emailed L and just asked him directly what is going to happen when the renovation is over; would things go back to the way they used to be between us?

He responded back that he knew I was looking for reassurances but he wanted to be completely honest with me. He reminded me that when we started seeing each other, his work brought him near my city once a month, and that doesn't happen anymore. He wasn't anticipating the promotion or the renovations, both of which ate into his free time significantly. So he can't promise that something else won't come up. It also sounds like work is going to continue to be a problem and he says the holidays are usually busy.

He tells me that none of this changes how important and special I am to him, and that he hopes that he'll have more free time in December. He has some time off then and thinks he might be able to make something work.

It's not what I wanted to hear... but it's also not what I was afraid to hear. Right now I still feel like I'm hanging and don't know what to do, except that I feel like crying.
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Last edited by Vicki82; 10-24-2012 at 07:31 PM.
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  #64  
Old 10-25-2012, 01:28 AM
Vicki82 Vicki82 is offline
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Thank god for husbands, is all I can say. I had a meltdown tonight. Rational thought fled and I was just a mess.

I told L that I felt like he had no room in his life for me, and he said ouch but he can see why I said that. Then everything just kind of came out all at once and I told him how I don't feel like I am important to him. I know my life is a lot less busy but I make time for things that matter to me. Going months without seeing him... I didn't think I was being that unreasonable. If I hadn't flown out to see him, we wouldn't have been together since July and now he's telling me maybe at Christmas?

He told me he was feeling overwhelmed by what I said and so I said okay we'd talk later. I don't know when later is. I'm sure he's working on the renovations tonight and will have no energy when he's done. For that matter, I'm not sure when he will have the energy to deal with me. I guess I can't blame him. I know he has busy stuff going on, I know that stuff takes priority over me... but that doesn't mean it's easy for me to cope with losing my connection to him.

I called H in tears and I apologized and said I know he doesn't want to hear about the emotional stuff but I really needed him. And he was there for me and supported me and listened to everything and even gave me good advice. He really is the most wonderful man and I love him so much.

He thinks I have probably messed things up with L, though. He says he would not want to deal with my issues if he had so much stuff on his plate and would probably cut me loose. I guess if that's the decision he makes there's nothing I can do about it. It would hurt a lot not to have L in my life; I truly believe that the connection we have is rare and that we were meant to find each other. I don't want to lose him. But I don't know how to keep doing this because it hurts so much.
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Last edited by Vicki82; 10-25-2012 at 01:58 AM.
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  #65  
Old 10-25-2012, 12:24 PM
Vicki82 Vicki82 is offline
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L and I talked again last night. Apparently there was more information he wasn't letting me in on because it hurt too much to talk about. His wife is going for exploratory surgery in three weeks for a different issue unrelated to her heart. Holy crap. I can't even imagine either having that many health problems or having my spouse with them. I can't say I blame him for burying himself in work and renovations.

On the other hand... if he doesn't tell me what's going on, how am I supposed to feel when he distances himself from me? When I feel like there is no future for us to look forward to, and that all the pain I am going through is for nothing? He tells me to be open and honest with him and I have tried, and then he keeps things back from me. And I can understand why he does it with things that hurt, but it makes things harder for me and it keeps more emotional distance between us.

Obviously I am going to take a big step back from contacting him. The last thing he needs right now in his life is more stress.

Right now though, the only thing going through my head is that I think it's functionally over, whether we've declared the patient dead or not. I am still in love with him, and I want so much to be with him, but I just don't see how it can happen when he has so much going on. I can't maintain this level of emotional involvement without hurting myself, and I don't think I can dial it down to FWB. I've never had a broken heart before and all I want to do is go back to bed and cry. Thank goodness my son goes to preschool today because I just don't think I can function.

I think I am done here. I never wanted to be poly. All I wanted was to have some casual fun with other men, and I never asked for this. What was the point of falling in love if it was going to lead to this? How could we have been meant to meet when it went nowhere?
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  #66  
Old 10-25-2012, 04:30 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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I'm sorry you have a broken heart but this poly stuff tends to be full contact...hearts get broken and sometimes dinged up


I think this guy's a pro ...he knows what he's doing. He's always got an answer. How did he phrase it ...shaping how information is released?


I'm curious when your husband agree to opening up what did he see the benefit to him would be? This sounds like Aurelie's situation....wife getting physical need met elsewhere. Does he get off on the cuckold thing?

In the poly/mono dynamic the happiness of spouse/(primary) partner is the number one thing in that quantitative analysis. On balance do you think that was true. Or did he get stuck being the emotional tampon for this other guy in between visits.
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  #67  
Old 10-25-2012, 05:31 PM
Vicki82 Vicki82 is offline
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Well, I don't. He's not a sociopath. He just doesn't do feelings well and he prefers to avoid the rough ones. I wasn't going to come back and post but I had to correct your misapprehension.

My H got a great deal out of us opening up. He is not a cuckold. He got a happier, more sexual wife who was getting her needs met and suddenly he got the wife of his dreams. More relaxed and laid back, more patient, more loving. H told me several times it was the best decision we'd made short of having our son.

My H was always encouraging me to see L or other men. He thinks it is good for me as a person and what makes me happy makes him happy. He has no desire to close and most definitely does not feel used. The only times he was exposed to my emotions was during the blog incident and last night when I broke down completely. So no- this might be what I needed, but it most certainly is not all about me.
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  #68  
Old 10-25-2012, 07:01 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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Are you saying that was your farewell post? or you didn't want to respond to my misconceptions.

Big distance between sociopath and pro (shaping the truth )


So just the happy wife and then the spill over sex. Check numbers 1 and 2.

You seemed troubled/ conflicted for some time now and did mention the depression or not wanting to get out bed and then sharing those feeling with your husband I didn't think it would have been that specific to be only twice. And most people can't hide their emotions that well....so some mood bleed through is going to happen. Because of the distance and the infrequency of your visits and the other demands on his time it seemed natural that condition 1..happy wife and condition 2 spillover sex might not be happening. In most cases they are linked. Couple that with the emotional mop up ....hence the question. At least you can see how one might get there right?

Hey, from all you've written about your husband he seems to be doing great. He's happy, supportive, adventurous... better than most who come here. But how do you figure it's not all about you or at least didn't start that way.
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  #69  
Old 10-26-2012, 01:50 PM
Cleo Cleo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicki82 View Post
I think I am done here. I never wanted to be poly. All I wanted was to have some casual fun with other men, and I never asked for this. What was the point of falling in love if it was going to lead to this? How could we have been meant to meet when it went nowhere?
Hi Vicki, I am so sorry you are so sad. But I wanted to address this statement. I understand you are really hurting right now and that you can't see the point of this pain. But, you mentioned yourself that in the beginning, you were so happy to be in the relationship with L. You experienced something with him that made you stretch your boundaries, and it made you grow. You say you never wanted to be poly, but you discovered that it is possible for you to have strong, loving feelings for more than one person. This is what you take with you, even if this relationship has no future.

You also learned something about your relationship with your husband. He is even more loving, supportive, and 'there' for you than you originally thought.

I've been reading your threads from the beginning. Your situation is not at all similar to mine, yet something about the way you wrote about your fears and insecurities really resonated with me. I was reading back in this thread and realized what it was. I could be wrong of course but this is how I see it: your biggest problem was/is that you feel like you have no control. L decided the terms and rules of your relationship, and this was ok in the beginning when your needs were being met, but when he kept changing the script, things got out of hand. Your reading his blog and his sub's blog were all attempts from you to gain back control. But you have to accept that the only control you have is in how you react to things and how you deal with things.

he is not going to be a different man. He will continue to distance himself from you when neccessary (to him). He will continue to be with his sub. He will not come and visit you more. The DADT with his wife is not going to change. These are all things that are out of your control and no amount of emailing him, stating your needs, or crying is going to change that.

I don't think he is as bad a guy as some of the commenters on your threads seem to think. I think he is probably a good guy, who has a lot on his plate, and sometimes slips up in managing his complicated life.
The question is: can you keep the love you feel for this man alive, can you nurture it inside yourself, accepting that the realtionship as you knew it is over, accepting that you won't email or skype with him daily, letting him go as someone who is in your life on a daily basis, and then decide (together!) on a new shape for this connection that you obviously have? Skype once a week, see each other once every couple of weeks?

You know it only SEEMS like you've been compromising on your wants and needs, because you've been upset and hurt about not seeing him. Seeing him less often and being less in touch with him and actually being ok with that, could make a world of difference. And you could still love him, you know.

Some of my situation is, in fact, similar to yours. When I met MrBrown, one of my lovers, for the first 2 months or so, we communicated daily, and saw each other sometimes twice a week. Then he started to withdraw. Dates got more infrequent, and sometimes a week went by without any contact. In the beginning this drove me crazy. I could not understand why he did not want to be with me more, connect more. But as I got to know him, I understood his personality. I think his NRE just faded really quickly. He loves me, I can feel that when I'm with him. I trust him completely. It's just that the relationship has not turned out the way I expected it in the beginning. It took me more than 6 months to finally get it: it did not matter that I was waiting for an email or for him to propose a date. My waiting wasn't going to change anything about his behavior. It only made me miserable.

Now? I'ts good. We see each other once every 4, 5 weeks. The bare minimum of mails and texts in between. And sometimes I text that I love him and he does not reply. But then a week later he'll text me that he's thinking of me.

I still get occasional little tinges of anxiety, usually right after a date. But overall. I have accepted him the way he his, and have accepted the dynamic of our connection. I'm not a victim of his behavior, I consciously choose to be in a relationship with him. And right now, I would not want to chage a thing about it.

(btw, he is also a Dom. The D/s thing only plays an occasional role in our sex lif, but it definitely defines his behavior - I think. )
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the guys: Ren - husband; Curlz - bf of 2 years, Brig - bf of 7 months; Knight - non-sexual bf; MrBrown - it's complicated
Ren's girls: Lou - gf of 2 years, Liz - very new gf
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  #70  
Old 10-28-2012, 12:08 AM
Vicki82 Vicki82 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
But how do you figure it's not all about you or at least didn't start that way.
I seem to be a little low on patience today, I must admit. But it's not all about me because my husband and I are a team. We have a very strong marriage. What is good for me is good for him and vice versa. Since you can't separate the action from the consequences, my having other partners is a great thing for him and he strongly supports it. Even from the very first time I had casual sex, once he got used to the idea he saw how it was benefitting both of us. He doesn't have to fuck another woman to be happy that I am having extramarital sex.

He's been there for me even though he's away at work right now. He takes little breaks and texts me and is helping me get through this. He's already texted me that if I cut L loose or the other way around, that there are other guys out there and that I WILL be happy again because he won't stand for anything less. He is truly the love of my life.

I have NOT been unloading on him except when I was so upset I couldn't think straight. That's been twice. The first time he struggled with it. This time, he's been there for me 100%. I apologized but told him that I needed him so much and he told me that he always wanted to be there for me when I was hurting. That's love.

I am not depressed, but I can see why you'd read it that way. I just happen to feel that my bed is a safe place and that's where I go when I'm feeling sad or overwhelmed. I'm a sensory person and I have this fuzzy blanket that helps sometimes. Also, I find if I sleep, it helps me get away from the immediateness of whatever is upsetting me and I often find more perspective to deal with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleo View Post
I've been reading your threads from the beginning. Your situation is not at all similar to mine, yet something about the way you wrote about your fears and insecurities really resonated with me. I was reading back in this thread and realized what it was. I could be wrong of course but this is how I see it: your biggest problem was/is that you feel like you have no control. L decided the terms and rules of your relationship, and this was ok in the beginning when your needs were being met, but when he kept changing the script, things got out of hand. Your reading his blog and his sub's blog were all attempts from you to gain back control. But you have to accept that the only control you have is in how you react to things and how you deal with things.

he is not going to be a different man. He will continue to distance himself from you when neccessary (to him). He will continue to be with his sub. He will not come and visit you more. The DADT with his wife is not going to change. These are all things that are out of your control and no amount of emailing him, stating your needs, or crying is going to change that.

I don't think he is as bad a guy as some of the commenters on your threads seem to think. I think he is probably a good guy, who has a lot on his plate, and sometimes slips up in managing his complicated life.
The question is: can you keep the love you feel for this man alive, can you nurture it inside yourself, accepting that the realtionship as you knew it is over, accepting that you won't email or skype with him daily, letting him go as someone who is in your life on a daily basis, and then decide (together!) on a new shape for this connection that you obviously have? Skype once a week, see each other once every couple of weeks?

You know it only SEEMS like you've been compromising on your wants and needs, because you've been upset and hurt about not seeing him. Seeing him less often and being less in touch with him and actually being ok with that, could make a world of difference. And you could still love him, you know.

Some of my situation is, in fact, similar to yours. When I met MrBrown, one of my lovers, for the first 2 months or so, we communicated daily, and saw each other sometimes twice a week. Then he started to withdraw. Dates got more infrequent, and sometimes a week went by without any contact. In the beginning this drove me crazy. I could not understand why he did not want to be with me more, connect more. But as I got to know him, I understood his personality. I think his NRE just faded really quickly. He loves me, I can feel that when I'm with him. I trust him completely. It's just that the relationship has not turned out the way I expected it in the beginning. It took me more than 6 months to finally get it: it did not matter that I was waiting for an email or for him to propose a date. My waiting wasn't going to change anything about his behavior. It only made me miserable.

Now? I'ts good. We see each other once every 4, 5 weeks. The bare minimum of mails and texts in between. And sometimes I text that I love him and he does not reply. But then a week later he'll text me that he's thinking of me.

I still get occasional little tinges of anxiety, usually right after a date. But overall. I have accepted him the way he his, and have accepted the dynamic of our connection. I'm not a victim of his behavior, I consciously choose to be in a relationship with him. And right now, I would not want to chage a thing about it.
Cleo, thank you for your post, because I think you really do understand where I'm coming from. He isn't a bad guy. Is he doing things in a way that I am not thrilled with? Yes. Am I hurting him in return? I am sure that I am. I'm certainly not giving him the support and understanding he needs right now.

We've been emailing back and forth today. I requested a face to face so that we could go over everything and he has come back to me and basically said the world would end if he took a day off work right now and he isn't available on weekends... so there it is. I've been trying, but it's clear that we're both misunderstanding each other via email and that has been decidedly unpleasant. I'm back to being emotionally flooded and not rational. Certainly if I was rational, I would not be dumping all my shit on a guy who barely has time to sleep and eat and is worrying about his wife going through yet another health crisis. So I guess I am just a bad person, plain and simple.

I know at least a couple of points in the last email I sent him weren't fair, and he tells me that I misunderstood his last message too. But I really don't know what's going on. I flooded him and he was going out for an evening with his wife so I doubt I'll hear from him again tonight. I'm a mess myself.

What really hurt was that when I requested the face to face, he gave me his reasons but the answer was just no. It wasn't like he offered a phone call or anything else instead. And I know he's going to a kink thing on Friday with his sub. I asked him why he couldn't even make another suggestion when he knows this is serious, and why he wouldn't be willing to miss the kink event if I was willing to come to his city and talk. If I really am important to him, then why am I coming last on the priority list?

Cleo, I think he basically wants what you have with MrBrown. He asked me in that last email if I'd be okay with seeing him 3-4x a year. He told me that he loves me and that he thinks that our feelings for each other make this more than a FWB situation... but that's effectively what he wants. I am not sure this is something I can cope with. My feelings for him are so strong that I have no idea if I can dial things back to FWB level. And if our feelings make it more, than how can he expect it to be other than what it is? I feel like he wants to force our relationship to change to a different shape than where it would go naturally. But maybe that's what he is thinking about me and we're just incompatible with our desires. I don't know.

By the way, Skyping once a week and seeing him every couple of weeks would be beyond my wildest dreams. Skyping is something I get very, very rarely. Maybe once every month or two if I'm lucky, since his wife can't be around. I was hoping to see him once a month. Apparently, that is asking too much.

I had even told him that when H and I move in a few years, his city was on the list of places we were considering. He told me that he had mixed feelings about me moving there because he thought it increased the risk of his wife finding out about me. I kind of hit the roof in my response, because his sub is local, the other women he was seeing are local, and he still has a profile up on a dating site to meet whoever so how the fuck is all that okay but if I was local it would not be??? I really do want an answer to that one.

Right about now, all I want to do is cry and be held. But I'm alone and have a sick toddler to take care of so I'm not getting much self care in.
__________________
Me: 31 year old poly bisexual Dominant female, married to Mark (married 9 years). Dating John, 4 months.


Last edited by Vicki82; 10-28-2012 at 12:53 AM.
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