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  #21  
Old 06-19-2012, 12:19 PM
corey corey is offline
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Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
Re (from corey, Post #15):


So, by that, does she mean that you're her only romantic relationship; that all her other relationships are platonic? If that's true, then I guess it's not so bad if she doesn't tell these friends about you ... a little disconcerting perhaps, but not *as* bad.

Re (from corey, Post #15):


Well, a little awkwardness seems (to me) a reasonable price to pay for being honest ...

But now the big questions:
  • What, if anything, is she willing to compromise on?
  • If she's not willing to compromise at all, can you live with that?
I get the impression she's presenting you with a "take it or leave it" situation. She's willing to explain why she does what she does (and maybe that makes it easier for you to live with it), but she's not willing to actually budge in her course or heading.

I guess my advice is, get 100% confirmation on what she is or isn't willing to budge on, hear her out on her explanations, and then ask yourself if you can live with what she's presenting to you. If you can't, you may have some tough decisions to make.

One thing that would concern me is if she wasn't willing to communicate with you about these things. These things call for communication. Even if she feels put out by communicating, I'd hope she'd grit her teeth and give it a chance. Like you said (in Post #7), you need her to be patient with repetitiveness as you have "re-hashes" of the same topics.

It concerns me that she's not okay with you getting any outside input about your situation (such as here on Polyamory.com). When someone doesn't want their partner to "talk to anyone else about it," it's often because that someone wants to control all the information.

You're not wrong to seek outside counsel. You can come to your own conclusions about which of that outside counsel you want to adopt into practice.
Again appreciate you guys talking this out for me. To follow up on your responses I must say that I do somewhat understand that if she is physically attracted to someone (she is very particular) that it would be difficult to go to the guy and just tell him she is in a relationship - I know that would make me feel uncomfortable. I did ask if I could meet him (i.e. he doesn't even have to know I am her boyfriend I said she could just casually introduce me as her friend one day if they were in the hall). Didn't get a yes on that quite yet, but didn't get a firm no either.

She has high expectations for me. She consistently tries to tell me how to be a better person (and I know that this may sound odd) but she often gives me advice on how to carry myself or how to act in certain occasions (to my benefit, not for her to control me). So this is that part that confuses me. Why would she care about how I hold myself around people or try to teach me to be a better person unless she did care. At the same time though I just dont see her "loving" side the way I expect.

Some background about her personality might be necessary I guess. She is very strong personality. She seriously sometimes makes me think of her as "one of the guys". Watching Enrique Iglesias Tonight (Im f**ign you) video the other night - while I am of course checking out the girl and she says to me "I see myself as being in that role, where I see a particular looking guy and i just like it"

Also, I recently read 20 romantic daily things you can do for your girlfriend (ie randomly hold her hand, spend more time with her...) etc She is the complete opposite and I was laughing thinking she would kick my ass if I ever did anything like that.

Me on the other hand I tend to play the reverse role and take on the "nice guy" personality trait. This is where she is consistently telling me that I don't need to ask "random strangers" on the internet for advice, that I need to be a man and make my own decisions. She does often times point out to me that she likes a man that is not "softy" so I think we do have that personality difference. Hell, I tell her sometimes I do feel less of a man when she is constantly critiquing everything about me (what I wear, how I sit) - I dont know if that is what is driving her away (me being somewhat "weak" personality) or what...


Regards
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  #22  
Old 06-19-2012, 12:22 PM
corey corey is offline
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If by "platonic" you mean friends that she has sex with then yes. i don't use that definition :-)

So she might not get laid quite as often.... boo hoo. (sorry I'm feeling very little sympathy for her right now)
Well she says there is no emotions involved but yeah I can agree with that. As previously mentioned if neither of them are looking to have a more than friends with benefits relationship then it should not be a problem for her to tell them. If he is not looking for a relationship either than he should not care
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  #23  
Old 06-19-2012, 12:25 PM
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Re: platonic ... yeah, friends with benefits I guess, not sure what she's driving at there.

I admit I'm feeling a little suspicious about this lady. Seems like she's rationalizing a bit, doesn't it?
I know that when you say something like this it probably means you shouldn't be in the relationship. However, I wish there was a way for her to prove to me she is genuine about her relationship with me (and doesnt hurt to make sure its nothing more then her getting her rocks off with some hot guy, I guess if I was more confident and litte more attractive I might not think this was a bad idea myself and go do the same).
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  #24  
Old 06-19-2012, 02:02 PM
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Corey,

I need to preface this reply, having written it - there are some harsh words in here which might shock you. They are intended to. Rather than putting up defenses, though, I would like you to seriously think about what I (and others) are saying here and to see if they fit your situation. It may not be as extreme as this - I am putting this out there as a prod to your thought process, rather than passing judgement, ok?

Quote:
Originally Posted by corey View Post
I must say that I do somewhat understand that if she is physically attracted to someone (she is very particular) that it would be difficult to go to the guy and just tell him she is in a relationship - I know that would make me feel uncomfortable.
Not only that - it would be wrong. It's her story to tell. Maybe you can be there when she tells it, but she needs to say it. A lot of poly people insist on having a conversation (on the phone at least, if not in person) with a metamour - just to verify to the person that you are totally ok with it, and that lines of communication are present, if issues need to be resolved. Some don't do that, but I think that in your case, it would be something I would insist on.

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Originally Posted by corey View Post
I did ask if I could meet him (i.e. he doesn't even have to know I am her boyfriend I said she could just casually introduce me as her friend one day if they were in the hall). Didn't get a yes on that quite yet, but didn't get a firm no either.
No, that doesn't work for poly, sorry - poly is about OPENNESS and HONESTY - doing what you mentioned is neither. It is deceptive and dishonest.

If she wants polyamory, why is she so dead against this being open and honest? I think that this is a major question that needs to be resolved between the two of you - you may not like the answer, when it comes, but at least things will be out in the open.

Quote:
Originally Posted by corey View Post
She has high expectations for me. She consistently tries to tell me how to be a better person (and I know that this may sound odd) but she often gives me advice on how to carry myself or how to act in certain occasions (to my benefit, not for her to control me).
Oh dear, really? This is big warning flag for me, because it implies to me that she doesn't accept you for who you are, but is instead trying to mold you into what she wants "for your own good".

It is one thing to encourage the growth of your partner, it's another to "try to tell you how to be a better person".

Quote:
Originally Posted by corey View Post
So this is that part that confuses me. Why would she care about how I hold myself around people or try to teach me to be a better person unless she did care. At the same time though I just dont see her "loving" side the way I expect.
The harsh statement here (which may only be partially true) is that she doesn't really love YOU, but she loves the person she feels she can change you into. I have seen this in too many relationships before, and it rarely ends well.


[QUOTE=corey;140154] Some background about her personality might be necessary I guess. She is very strong personality.[/QUOTER]Forgive me, but for me a "strong person" has an inner, calm strength. People want to learn from them because they look up to them. She is sounding like a domineering person - someone who wants to mold everyone around her to her ideals, someone who does whatever they want, and expects everybody else to be happy with it.

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Originally Posted by corey View Post
Me on the other hand I tend to play the reverse role and take on the "nice guy" personality trait.
aka "the doormat". She does whatever she likes in her life, decides what to tell you and what not to tell you, expects you to be happy with whatever she DOES choose to tell you, and is trying to change you into something that is more what she regards as "ideal".

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Originally Posted by corey View Post
This is where she is consistently telling me that I don't need to ask "random strangers" on the internet for advice, that I need to be a man and make my own decisions.
Well, you do need to make your own decisions, I agree - but there's nothing wrong with doing some research to improve your knowledge, is there?

This is a standard tactic by a controlling personality - restrict the amount of information that that controlled person can get in order to make their version of reality the only possible one.

The folks here aren't "random strangers" - they are people who have many years of experience with poly relationships, both good and bad, and post in order to try to help folks through their own issues.

She is more than welcome to create an account on here and talk about her side of things - and you might want to let her know that. My guess is that she won't do that, but still - you're not hiding anything from her, are you? (Well, I hope you're not - this forum is open to Google and will appear in search results)

Quote:
Originally Posted by corey View Post
She does often times point out to me that she likes a man that is not "softy" so I think we do have that personality difference.
i.e. she's saying "you're not what I want and I'm going to try to change you into someone better". frankly, that's insulting to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by corey View Post
Hell, I tell her sometimes I do feel less of a man when she is constantly critiquing everything about me (what I wear, how I sit) - I dont know if that is what is driving her away (me being somewhat "weak" personality) or what...
A partner should be making you feel better about yourself, helping you to grow, accentuating the positive and all that. It sounds like she isn't doing that for you at all, in fact, she is just making you feel worse about yourself.

Corey, this is your decision to make, of course. This does not sound like a healthy relationship to me. If you want things to improve then you either need to change the relationship or get out of it. If you do not make changes, then nothing will improve.

Once again, sorry if this sounds harsh - I can't see your circumstances - I can only react to the way you are portraying them.
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  #25  
Old 06-19-2012, 07:04 PM
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Hi corey,

CielDuMatin has made many good points here and I'd advise you to give them close consideration. It concerns me that your girlfriend is so controlling over *your* behavior, but unwilling to make concessions to your requests about *her* behavior. I would want/seek a big change in that kind of relationship dynamic, if I was in it, or I'd want just plain out, but I'm not you, and I have different likes/wants/needs.

The important question I think you have to ask here is, are *you* happy in this relationship, just the way it is? If not, do you think you can learn to be happy in it? If you can't, do you think there's a reasonably good chance the relationship can change so as to allow you to be happy in it?

It's all about figuring out what you want or need, and what you can or can't live with. As for interacting here with other Polyamory.com members, I agree with CielDuMatin, you aren't turning your decisionmaking process over to a bunch of random strangers. You're turning to a polyamory-specialized community to get info and insight. The actual decisions you make will still be your decisions, and you'll be the one making them. So I don't feel that this somehow makes you "less of a man," but I do feel this makes you a "smarter man." Gaining learning and perspective is surely a good thing.

I guess it would be a first step if she would at least introduce you (to her FWBs) as a friend, though CielDuMatin is right in saying that still wouldn't be the honest kind of introduction she ought to make. You can always give the situation some more time and see what improves, and what you feel will (or won't) continue to improve.

Whatever you decide, examine the situation closely, and consider what would be right for you. Your opinions do count, you know.

With regards,
Kevin T.
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  #26  
Old 06-19-2012, 11:46 PM
corey corey is offline
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[QUOTE=CielDuMatin;140169]Corey,

I need to preface this reply, having written it - there are some harsh words in here which might shock you. They are intended to. Rather than putting up defenses, though, I would like you to seriously think about what I (and others) are saying here and to see if they fit your situation. It may not be as extreme as this - I am putting this out there as a prod to your thought process, rather than passing judgement, ok?

Not only that - it would be wrong. It's her story to tell. Maybe you can be there when she tells it, but she needs to say it. A lot of poly people insist on having a conversation (on the phone at least, if not in person) with a metamour - just to verify to the person that you are totally ok with it, and that lines of communication are present, if issues need to be resolved. Some don't do that, but I think that in your case, it would be something I would insist on.

No, that doesn't work for poly, sorry - poly is about OPENNESS and HONESTY - doing what you mentioned is neither. It is deceptive and dishonest.

If she wants polyamory, why is she so dead against this being open and honest? I think that this is a major question that needs to be resolved between the two of you - you may not like the answer, when it comes, but at least things will be out in the open.

Oh dear, really? This is big warning flag for me, because it implies to me that she doesn't accept you for who you are, but is instead trying to mold you into what she wants "for your own good".

It is one thing to encourage the growth of your partner, it's another to "try to tell you how to be a better person".

The harsh statement here (which may only be partially true) is that she doesn't really love YOU, but she loves the person she feels she can change you into. I have seen this in too many relationships before, and it rarely ends well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by corey View Post
Some background about her personality might be necessary I guess. She is very strong personality.[/QUOTER]Forgive me, but for me a "strong person" has an inner, calm strength. People want to learn from them because they look up to them. She is sounding like a domineering person - someone who wants to mold everyone around her to her ideals, someone who does whatever they want, and expects everybody else to be happy with it.

aka "the doormat". She does whatever she likes in her life, decides what to tell you and what not to tell you, expects you to be happy with whatever she DOES choose to tell you, and is trying to change you into something that is more what she regards as "ideal".

Well, you do need to make your own decisions, I agree - but there's nothing wrong with doing some research to improve your knowledge, is there?

This is a standard tactic by a controlling personality - restrict the amount of information that that controlled person can get in order to make their version of reality the only possible one.

The folks here aren't "random strangers" - they are people who have many years of experience with poly relationships, both good and bad, and post in order to try to help folks through their own issues.

She is more than welcome to create an account on here and talk about her side of things - and you might want to let her know that. My guess is that she won't do that, but still - you're not hiding anything from her, are you? (Well, I hope you're not - this forum is open to Google and will appear in search results)

i.e. she's saying "you're not what I want and I'm going to try to change you into someone better". frankly, that's insulting to you.

A partner should be making you feel better about yourself, helping you to grow, accentuating the positive and all that. It sounds like she isn't doing that for you at all, in fact, she is just making you feel worse about yourself.

Corey, this is your decision to make, of course. This does not sound like a healthy relationship to me. If you want things to improve then you either need to change the relationship or get out of it. If you do not make changes, then nothing will improve.

Once again, sorry if this sounds harsh - I can't see your circumstances - I can only react to the way you are portraying them.
I read this article last night before posting about being a "nice guy" and it sums me up to a T. http://www.askmen.com/dating/heidi_5...nice-guys.html

It is my personality and "nice guys" do act like door mats rather than man. She is trying to teach me not to be a door mat, I should clarify that when I say she tries to change my behavior. Honestly, I don't want to be a door mat and always have been and I feel like she is changing me for the better. After reading that article and some others on AskMen site I am not happy with WHO I am and I know that even though she doesn't want to hurt my feelings, someone HAS to tell you when your acting like a "door mat". I grew up without a father, just single parent (mother) and so I don't feel like I got taught how to be a man and I need to learn to grow on my own, I know she doesnt want to have to "tell" me how to act. She has only mentioned that its like teaching at school, you can only teach the foundations - its up to you to learn to be who you are and have your own identity. Its one thing I always lacked. So I understand your perception, there is always two sides to the story, although while I feel like she is trying to say I am not "good enough" she is trying to help me be "better" without holding my hand like im a little kid.

The guy she was talking to before we will call him "D" she has mentioned things about him on her own a few times without me having to say anything. I think she is opening up a little bit and I feel like I am getting more used to the idea of our situation.

I think the difference here is that (as many people on this site have mentioned) our relationship is a bit unique and not quite poly - so I get some answers that respond in the sense of poly rather than what it is, but at the same time - I think some of those responses are still appropriate to the situation. So its good to keep in mind that she is ok with me hanging out with other girls but she said she doesnt want to know them or need me to talk about them. At the same time I feel a little more comfortable with the poly mentality of making it requirement to at least talk to the person and let them know I am okay with it. Like people have said, that would also make her to be dishonest with "D" as well.

You are both right, I need to decide if I am happy for myself (rather than, oh I dont want to be alone crap), if I am not happy if I can stand up for myself to make the relationship work and/or she will change.

Right now I feel like I am somewhere between "content" and "happy" and I think if there are certain things in place that I can be happy. At this point though I just need to wait and see how things work out. If they don't work out, I have accepted that - as sad as it would make me I have to realize that I cannot force something to be there that doesn't exist.

I know if I give her a little more time I will be able to make a solid concrete decision based on where we go from here.

As always appreciate the advice and any new comments on anything I said.
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  #27  
Old 06-20-2012, 12:25 AM
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Your initial post certainly gave the impression that you were FAR from content with things. What I suspect is that the advice has made you very uncomfortable because it has gone a long way beyond the immediate situation and has started to delve into some of the underlying stuff.

If you want to take control of your own growth, here's what I would do. Identify some very specific things that you feel you could use some help with, based on your own self-assessment and ask her to help you with those by being a mirror. Because the way you have portrayed her "help" isn't very constructive - it sounds like she is just picking at you and finding fault, and then explaining it away as only wanting to help you improve.

Most people say that I am a "nice guy" - I don't finish last, and I'm not a doormat to anyone. Getting relationship advice from AskMen is like women getting relationship advice from Cosmopolitan. A good man knows when to ask for help and a good woman knows what help to give (not my quote, but from the person sitting next to me). She recommends http://goodmenproject.com/category/sex-relationships/ as a far more interesting and balanced site which has some great articles. Maybe take a look around there? Try doing a search for "nice guy" and I think you will find something of interest there.
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Old 06-20-2012, 07:46 PM
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Re (from corey, Post #26):
Quote:
"Right now I feel like I am somewhere between 'content' and 'happy' ..."
If that's the case, then you're fine to stay in the relationship for the time being. Keep "checking up on yourself" and if you find you feelings change to depressed, desperate, or what have you, then it's time to make some hard choices.

Make sure you're being honest with yourself, and with her. I personally don't see anything wrong with being a "nice guy;" I think you can be a nice guy without being a doormat. Just try to balance things out in your own life.

D should be told the truth eventually; he doesn't need to know everything about you, but he does need to know that you're there and that you're more than just a friend.
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  #29  
Old 06-21-2012, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by kdt26417 View Post
Re (from corey, Post #26):


If that's the case, then you're fine to stay in the relationship for the time being. Keep "checking up on yourself" and if you find you feelings change to depressed, desperate, or what have you, then it's time to make some hard choices.

Make sure you're being honest with yourself, and with her. I personally don't see anything wrong with being a "nice guy;" I think you can be a nice guy without being a doormat. Just try to balance things out in your own life.

D should be told the truth eventually; he doesn't need to know everything about you, but he does need to know that you're there and that you're more than just a friend.
I recently had posted a thread on AskMen.com and one person pointed me to a book called "No More Mr Nice Guy" and have since read half the book (I dont even read my text books for University, so it says a lot) and it really is not a good thing to have the "Nice Guy" syndrome, as others mentioned it puts you in a position of being a door mat.

Suggest a read/peek at the book:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...119dBW3-aZLk-w
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  #30  
Old 06-21-2012, 09:27 PM
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Yes corey, but the problem is that these type of articles, essentially, tell you be be a asshole and they'll come running. It's male fantasy fodder, and it plain doesn't work. There is a vast gulf between being a doormat and being a "bad boy". It's quite possible to be a good, solid, reliable person, and STILL be attractive to others.

But if you would prefer to use AskMen as your source of information about good relationships, rather than some of the things that we have suggested, please feel free!
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