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  #81  
Old 06-15-2012, 02:52 AM
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It looks like you need some more distance between you and M ... Trying to maintain a friendship after a break-up is sometimes too stressful. You don't have to become enemies (I don't think), but less contact I guess is what I'm trying to say. Well really, probably no contact at all for the time-being. Your mind needs a break from thinking about M, it's like you said, you've just got to let her go, and focus on the positives in your life.

Sometimes, you may be taking too much upon yourself, or "trying to fix it all at once." The M situation, however, doesn't necessarily need to be fixed. Just released. If M wants to do her own fixing that's great, but let her be the one to make that decision.

I hear you about the time and emotional energy you invested in this relationship. But first of all, don't let the sense of time lost tempt you to lose more time (and emotional energy) in the future. Change your investment to be channeled into things that are rewarding. If the investment in M is resulting in mostly negatives (and I think it is), then make a change in where you direct your efforts from this moment forward.

Secondly, the time and emotional energy you invested in the relationship with M aren't necessarily wasted. Even if you never see, speak, or write to M again, you still have the experience that you gained from your work on this relationship. You learned things about yourself that will help you in future relationships. Nothing can take that away.

The thing to learn here is that you want to travel in a direction in life that will bring you happiness. If trying to maintain contact with M is just bringing you stress, anger, and despair, then it's time to let that contact go, in preference of other things you can do that will be rewarding to you. Care enough about yourself to let the unhappiness-causing things go. Forgive M enough to let her go and live her own life.

If you read through your own posts on this thread (especially the last couple of posts), you'll probably see hints about what kinds of things help you find happiness in life, and about what kinds of things undermine your happiness. Once you've identified those two classes of things, try to imbrace the happiness-things more, and distance yourself from the unhappiness-things. Pain is all well and good as a teaching tool, but you don't need to purposefully burden yourself with extra pain. Life supplies us with plenty of pain all by itself.

I hope your next night's sleep leaves you waking with some more of those positive thoughts. If it doesn't, you can still turn to this forum to vent, and re-center yourself.

Sending well-wishes and regards,
Kevin T.
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  #82  
Old 06-15-2012, 05:52 AM
Questioning Questioning is offline
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Thanks again Kevin

I won't read the last post as it is filled with obsession and i don't need to be thinking those things. I left it there as an example of what the obsession is - the reality is it thinks in absolutes, uncompromising, hurt, angry, pain, darkness. It just wants to hurt others because I got hurt. It is a hurt child. It is horrible, it is of me, but it is not me.

All things are possible. I don't hate M - sometimes though it gets too much to bear, and yes you are right distance is probably my best bet but... she will be in my life for several months yet we are both bio majors. and she may even wind up in the same postgrad programme as me. So really, there's loads of time to repair if she wants to, but the friendship thing should definately remain intact. I get really fucked off when my male friends are useless too, this isn't about love, it is ego demanding the world jumps when I say I guess, and me not having my boundaries listened to. If i didn't set these expectations up, I wouldn't get hurt all the time.

I'm still afraid of being alone. I really am worried about having a month off. How fucking crazy is that I've been working myself ragged and I am afraid to have time out as M wont be holding my hand. DAMN.

I guess I better think about this it's happening very soon. I have a couple of comedy shows to attend, a party, and I can go to some meetings and soak up a bit of spirituality. I have gardens that could do with some tending, and the house would appreciate a bit of attention too. I can get hold of my roadie bosses and make them aware I'm available for a while too. That will take care of a quarter of it. The danger time is weekdays when nobody else is around.

I have been contemplating all this darkness, and how I can use comedy as a cartharsis e.g. ....

I'm having trouble readjusting back into society as I have just been released from a long period of confinement - she said she doesn't love me anymore. she said she only pretends to like rough sex so she can punch me in the face. She was a wild woman, she drove too fast, drank too much, and fucked other men. every cock in her mouth was a dagger in my heart.

:

Fuck yes that is sooo dark, yet rather good. I might be onto something here. It's better than writing sad poems! I have been through so much in my life, perhaps it is time to use this experience to help others face their darkness and laugh at it. Obsession, depression, the stuff of comedy gold - surely!

Hmm, time off. I can read books, I love reading books and haven't read a novel in years. I can relearn my guitar (very rusty) to augment stage time as pro shows come in again. I can get SERIOUS with my weight set and diet, and go back to school looking better than most the 20 somethings.

Oh yes, yesterday I sat down to have a cigarette, talked to a workman and a young lady joined in. The workman left and an hour and a half later Natalie and i (still talking) both realised we'd best get back to our respective studies. I was amazed at how smoothly and easily i conversed with this girl and I was being cheeky, had no outcome dependance, and really enjoying myself. No liquor, no dutch courage, no problem, no fear.

ANYTHING is possible. I have not thrown my toys out of the cot with M. It was very close last night with the letter and this morning I myself was endangered with crippling thoughts and feelings. BUT - Igot up, did my best. Exercised, eating, studying with others. I did the EFT on forgiveness, and more on letting go.

I need to let go of outcome dependance. This way I might make plans without my ego chiming in on what's 'good' for me.

Anything is possible. Me an M heal our friendship and nothing but ashes remains of all this crap. I get a new lady who loves me and sticks with me. no offense to polyamory, but given the choice, being mono...

I get into the pro circuit and my social life goes through the roof. I still got university too, 40 000 pupils, bound to be a few cute ones in their 30's e.g. Natalie. I love it up there I easily slip into a conversation with the 20 somethings as in that environment it is your brain, not your age or social status, that pulls weight. It is wonderful to be surrounded by so many beautiful young minds (and bodies). I have had offers from girls in late 20's but too young, and I don't need a young woman running circles round me a 30 something proved more than I bargained for. What I'm saying is there are infinate possibilities if i only open my eyes and mind to them.

I truly hope tomorrow morning is not a repeat of today. But even if it is, there will come a day (soon) when I wake up ok with all this. Time heals fast when you work at it.

Really appreciate the support and advice as usual. It is a hard time, but nothing is over, life is just beginnig a new chapter in which i no longer play the victim, and become my own hero.

Holy shit she's coming over. Wish me luck, and love only without agenda...
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  #83  
Old 06-15-2012, 11:49 AM
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Yay, I am my own hero.

That was nice, we had a bit of a serious talk, there were some things needed to be said.

I said. I know you did something last week and I don't really care that you did that what bothers me is that you were so uncomfortable in my presense after that. I don't want you to ever be ashamed or guilty because of me. I then did a bit of NLP made an anchor touching her knee and said "if we could just get this last year and we could take all of the crap out of it, all of that silly niggly shit, and burn it, wouldn't that be amazing", and touched the anchor again.

I kept taking a moment to listen, taking a moment to think before I opened my mouth. If what I wanted to say felt bad, I didn't say it. I only said what felt right, it is entirely possible to get this right if I am mindful, present - what a revelation. Within half an hour we had unraveled all the stuff between us.

Now we are close again. Close friends, we always were. We are not a couple we have something really solid there is no need to force it. We will see each other, fuck, love, enjoy. I will handle my own shit, I will get a life. We are NOT an item. we both made that clear. it was too much bullshit and not enough respect. Demands are crap, love, no limits.

So lets see how it pans out. I have a lot of work to do, and I'm really keen to do it. I need to keep the focus on me, emotional, physical, spiritual, financial. A balanced life helps balance the mind. Thoughts are the key to it.

I must now quote myself

"Every cock in her mouth was a dagger in my heart" I love that line hehe.

After the brief and slightly uncomfortable talk we relaxed and had a great night chatting and fucking.

Nothing is wrong now, all is right with my world. My path and M's paths are different, anything is possible this may change but if it doesn't I will meet someone amazing. Time to go write some comedy I'm feeling a touch bemused by it all.
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  #84  
Old 06-16-2012, 02:15 AM
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As long as things are on a positive note, I have no objections to the situation. Things were really swinging to a low point in your one post, and I was concerned. But perhaps that roller-coaster ride isn't directly related to M, it may be some kind of internal mechanism at work.

It's good that you have an objective outlet for venting, it's given you a chance to keep things positive with M. I can't remember, if you're getting any individual counseling at the moment? It might be something to consider, there's some kind of mood swing going on that can get pretty extreme (and painful), from what I've read on this end.

I just want to see you have more of those positive moments, I feel bad about the really severe negative moments, even though I'm glad Polyamory.com can be here for you at those difficult times. But I have observed what looks like a cycle of some kind, maybe there's a diagnosis that goes/would go with it. I'm just a layman (and not a very knowledgeable one), but I see something there from my distant viewpoint.

I'm glad to hear things are going well again. Please keep us posted on all that develops, whether good or difficult.

Regards,
Kevin T.
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  #85  
Old 06-16-2012, 07:07 AM
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That's great feedback Kevin I appreciate the candour. Yes, it can easily swing extreme but that is when the obsession kicks in. I wrote the post in full flight to illustrate how ugly it is. And yes, it is extremely painful. I rarely ever say hurtful things like that to people, it is thoughts, the way it can wind up, venting as well, not reality at all, it's good to vent, I think the dark comedy is a better avenue though. Getting the crap out, losing the junk so I can tune in to my spirit - love.

I am seeing a counsellor. i showed her my model for TEA and my model for my obsession and she said it was great work, and things would swing back into obsession and seem really powerful but if I look at the model i know it is fear, and about me, and the obsession (hate, control, hurt, anger, whatever it is that time) dissapears. Then the fears of course, painful, but nothing compared to what they were, and way less severe than the obsession. All I need to do then is focus on what I want, and how I can improve myself, how i can help myself and others. Then I imagine everything is going to be ok and it is! Magic!

Example: I had my last exam today and it was the tough one - Pathology. Last night though, instead of studying, I was with M. Do I kick myself, say it's bad I neglected my studies. No. I am very scholarly. I say it's fine and I am fine and I go in early to print notes and sit in the sun with them.

Then, a HOT indian woman shows up. This girl is fucking dynamite (and engaged) and she wants help with fungal biology and I'm a bit lost on genetics, and I'm a fungal expert and she's a stats/genetics whiz kid... 3 hours with her and we learned so much each filling the gaps in the others understanding. She told me I was an amazing man, and she's talked about me at length with her fiance and told him how I amaze her - in her culture if a man has not gone to school as a young man he is written off and resigns himself to poverty. How sad!

So, we go to our exam, and her stuff helps me, and my stuff helps her. Not only do I find the help I need, it comes in the guise of a beautiful young woman who admires me, and I get to help her too. If i didn't spend time with M last night I'd have stayed home studying genetics last night and this morning and not learned half as much. It all fell into place. I followed my heart last night and today, have a thought, does it feel good - if yes, do/say that.

Now, my break has begun. I have no excuse to be sad about this! It is time to try and relax, deeply relax, with no heed for mind bending science for 4 whole weeks. RELAAAAX...

Movies, books, exercise, tramping, gardening, meetings, comedy, parties, music, a few days with M, yes, time to unwind.
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  #86  
Old 06-16-2012, 09:11 PM
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Sounds like a good deal to me. Hope you have many more such good times in the near future (and find your way through the tougher times).
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  #87  
Old 06-17-2012, 09:51 PM
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Still finding the 'letting go' to be difficult. Had a bit of imagery popping in my head (her in bed with others) jolting me from sleep last night. I am meant to be dreaming of how I want my life before I go to sleep, so I do not wake with a head full of crap.

There's progress though. I'm grateful for progress. My focus needs to be on me, and I am really struggling with this - the obsession is not dark but is often in my head trying to figure out how to bargain my way back into M's good graces. Thing is, I am in her good graces, but I'm relegated down to friend and nothing's going to change soon she's spending the coming weekend tramping with the other guy. Thing is, he's relegated to friend too. I think she is too scared to commit as her behaviour has ruined all her previous relationships, and when I took my forgiveness and acceptance back I hurt her deeply. I am not the man she wants at present, she doesn't want a man. She is trying to resign herself to not being serious in any relationships. This makes me very sad. But how much of the sadness is selfishness, and how much genuine caring.

I must come from love, not fear. I must see my life with great love, see me as I truly am, loving, kind, happy, joyous, successful, centred. I really have been thrown off centre but it happened before M arrived.

Thoughts: I cannot get over M.

Errors. Conclusions, Globalising.

I have got over others before and all it took was time and then a shift of focus. grief has stages and bargaining is one of them. Have done the depression anger denial bargaining... possibly circle these a few times more, but the next step is acceptance. I can't be that far away. There is love in my life my neighbours friends and family love me. There is forward momentum in my life. I have both stability and change. Relationship breakups are tough, but most people go through them, and on the other side they meet someone and are even happier than previously (if they learn the previous lessons). I can finally go into relationships now with full knowlege of how to nip jealousy in the bud, how to approach love - my needs first, my self love, and then there is love to share. I have comedy and self care to focus on. I have events to attend and people to spend time with. I will be ok.

Thoughts: I can't keep my focus on myself.

errors: Conclusions, globalising. Ignoring positive.

Analysis: There are long periods where I have been ok here in my own skin. Focus takes practise and as I learn to meditate on what i am grateful for, and what positive things i am doing, and the positive places I am going, there is no need to stay unhappy. It does not matter if M and I were perfect - my malaise is NOT about her. I still get this existential quandary, i still get afraid and alone and lost. The thing is a relationship will not fix me as it is not something lacking externally but internally. That lack is merely self esteem. i need to keep doing the right tihng, building a life, being diligent so that i learn to trust myself, then fear of being alone will no longer be fearful, and alone time can be the joyous contemplative and creative opportunity it should be.
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  #88  
Old 06-18-2012, 11:39 PM
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Mind-blowingly similar Q. I'm not a comedian (but I am funny) and I don't like mushrooms :-)
However there are too many parellels with my own situation for me to not log onto this site and get an update of you/your situation. I would be a fool to ignore your thoughts, and those of the other people contributing to this - especially Kevin, who is a diamond geezer as we say in London.
I feel your bad days, as I have lived them, recently - some days the same day.. My situation is evolving, as situations do, and each day brings it's own set of challenges. Usually involving me/her/us.
Some days I feel strong, positive about myself (without her) and then the next day I fold, sucumb to my obsessions (her/us) and completely neglect myself, undo all the good work I've done the day before. She sees this as my seesaw emotions playing up again, unstable, judgemental, obsessive.
If I am completely honest with myself, what I need is closure, one way or another. Continuing my association with J is not giving me this. I love her but think we are fundamentally incompatible, because in one of the most crucial, basic ways (relationship format) we disagree. I'm Mono, I know it - if I wasn't, these feelings of jealousy, rejection, abandonment etc would not arise - as they don't for J. She is definitely poly, I think we've established that.
Can a mono man and a poly woman succeed together? I'm sure there are cases where it's been a roaring success. However I'm sure there are many cases with a trail of broken hearts as well. I fear my situation falls into the latter category. I'm trying all the time to accommodate, but at the same time feeling like I'm betraying myself. I can't do this.
I'm glad to hear your positivity (albeit blended with occasional negativity - which is understandable!) and that you visualise a future, for you (not dependent on another). It's vital we do this. If we depend on another, that makes us an addict.
I'm trying to do the same. Focus on things important to me. 2 steps forward 1 step back. But, progress, slow as it is, frustrating as it is, progress nevertheless. Boa sorte amigo
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  #89  
Old 06-19-2012, 07:22 PM
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Hi Questioning and mobetter,

It sounds to me like you're both coming to the conclusions that are right for you, given your similar (though not identical) situations. I think you'll continue to have times when you doubt yourself, but try not to let that get to you too much. There's a lot of cycling here, with good days and bad days (and some cycling even within the same day). This is a phenomenon you can learn to cope with better, maybe even smooth out with time and practice, but you may always have some cycling to contend with. Try to accept this as something about yourself that you can get through.

Re (from mobetterblues, Post #88):
Quote:
"I would be a fool to ignore your thoughts, and those of the other people contributing to this -- especially Kevin, who is a diamond geezer as we say in London."
Why thank you sir, that sounds like a compliment to me.

Anyway, I appreciate your updates and hope you'll keep those coming. And don't be afraid to vent, we need to hear that too, in order to get an understanding of the nature and dimensions of these cycles.

Regards all around,
Kevin T.
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Old 06-19-2012, 08:25 PM
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Ah yes, closure. I've been thinking about how I want to cut M off completely, but this is only for my sake, and there's a little bit of throw my toys out of the cot behaviour comes with it. Thoughts around it are not pleasant so I do not believe it is what I actually want to do. My head just wants all this processing over as some is painful. As Kevin says - it may be the processing is part of normal life, something to get used to. I don't mind doing a morning routine to straighten my head out, I just remember days I woke filled with joy and wonder, it hurts to compare to today where I wake up hurt and confused and feeling helpless to help it.

What I actually want to do is fall in love with someone mono. I do not want to damage the friendship that remains between M and myself but if it comes at the expense of my mental health I guess I will have to.

I think she is a sex addict. This I can help her with as a friend, as a boyfriend no way, there might be some saints out there but it hurts too much. Remove the addictive behaviour there may/may not remain a poly woman. I definately have to step back. See, when I found out she cheated on me several months ago she was all tearful, said she was a sex addict, and that she wanted help. since then there has been NOTHING on her part to change. NOTHING.

Me, I've put myself through HELL trying to own my part in it all, trying to be open minded etc. TOO MUCH.

"Every cock in her mouth is a dagger in my heart"

Love then, this feels good inside of me. I must love her, support her, help her to feel safe with me as a friend to seek help (or not!). I am very good in this role I just never adopted it I was too close, too hurt, too involved.

What do I want. Keep the discipline of self up. Keep up the comedy (they gave me the headline, and 2 days later, I'm back on stage tonight!). Get my degree/s and a great job. Meet women, date, fall in love with a poly woman who treats me wonderfully, and return it. Write an inspiring book. Help people (unemployed/homeless/addicted/mental health). I used to give lots of comedy proceeds to charity, I can do that again once my own finance is straightened out. It's all about love for me. Love for my work, my fellow man, my hobbies, my friends, my planet, my lover.

Things to be grateful for concerning M: We are friends and this is safe provided i don't start trying to own her/control her, this is safe if I can let go of my expectations she is the one for me - she is not!! Not as she is, no way I deserve far better.

Thoughts: I will always be alone.

Errors: Conclusions, extreme thinking, globalising, probably more.

Analysis: I am not alone now. i could get on the road and go see family and they would take care of me in a heartbeat. I have 11 friends on this street alone. Right next door, people who love me. I have friends who will turn up anytime i say i need them. i am definately not alone. The key to happiness is a matter of focus for me now. i know that achievements etc help happiness but how I percieve day to day life is the real deal, this is where I live most of the time, within the ordinary dealings of life. My focus needs to be on love, gratitude, joy, peace of mind, healing, contribution, and acceptance. I meet women all the time when I go out so I'm doing the right thing right now by rebuilding my comedy ties and getting out of my house. i was olny lonely and lost when M arrived in my life as I was a hermit, and I let life kick me round. There is no need to lie down and be miserable, in fact I'm absolutely over getting sympathetic energy. There are half a million women in this town, and i am going to meet one who is amazing. In the meantime i need to prepare for this by getting my finances and transport together, and working diligently at both comedy and university. i have many positive things i can do. i must overcome the apathy/want to sit and worry about me/procrastination I like to wallow in, get up, get on with it, and do my best. life falls into place when i do this. I am extremely capable, i can get my needs met.
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