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  #11  
Old 05-05-2012, 07:02 PM
polyburned polyburned is offline
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Originally Posted by lovefromgirl View Post
It's not, though.

Because a surefire way to get him out of society, stop him doing this to anyone again, and maybe free Jay from the abuse is prosecution.

Hence why I brought it up at all.
I'm not gonna lie, I have thought about it and did a little bit of research. But its an extremely difficult crime to prove, and what usually happens is the plaintiff, me in this case will end up dragging my own sexual history in a public court without even a guarantee of conviction. Like u said they do have those comparison tests, so I think I just have to play the waiting game and see if I am positive myself.

When it comes to jay its just so incredibly frustrating. I just can't understand why he would stay with someone who treats him so poorly. I don't think he will be going anywhere any time soon, he is just terrified of having "wasted 5 years".
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  #12  
Old 05-05-2012, 08:51 PM
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Hey hun,

I hope you don't mind me calling you that. Just wanted to offer a cheers up: the risk of you having caught HIV is abysmally low while using condoms correctly. Even without protection and being the receptive partner in anal intercourse (the riskiest activity by far) runs the risk of infection of around 1 %. So your chances are really good.

Also, while I don't know zit about Bob's medical situation (and he would be unlikely to disclose it anyway) chances are that he's on antiretrovirals, which means his viral load could be very low, even non-existent. There is no evidence to suggest that people on a medication with very low viral loads can pass on the infection. And kissing won't surely do the trick.

Just wanted to cheer you up and bust some myths many people have on HIV (like it's super-easy to catch etc).

Also would like to comment on LoveFromGirl's suggestion: prosecution will just make it more likely that people like the OP continue to be exposed to risks they don't want to take. HIV isn't passed from one person to the next by people who know they are HIV positive: it's passed on by people who don't know their status, either because they have no idea of the risks involved or they are too scared to test. Criminal prosecution practises like bashing HIV positive people who engage in consensual and protected sexual activities is only going to increase the number of people who choose not to test because they don't want to know, don't want to deal with the stigma and don't want to be possibly facing criminal charges. No knowledge of status, no case.

Many life-threatening if untreated and permanent STDs for which testing is available are not similarly criminalized. HIV carries unique stigma, most likely because it's a disease associated with gays, drug users and Black people.

Fighting the stigma associated with HIV is the only way to stop the epidemic. Condoms are effective against the infection; people need to get tested, know their HIV status and get on the medication they need. This cannot be if knowing your status carries criminal liability. Adult people who engage in consensual sex are responsible for their own protection against STDs, i.e. whether they choose to use condoms or not. The OP did, and is reaping the benefits as we speak.
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Last edited by BlackUnicorn; 05-05-2012 at 08:55 PM.
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  #13  
Old 05-05-2012, 09:56 PM
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Re (from polyburned, Post #9):
Quote:
"Once I have a chance to heal and get over this, I'll decide if a friendship with Jay is one worth having. With his boyfriend having banned him from seeing me, I wouldn't want to make his life harder."
Good point; you and Jay are both in something of a pickle. Which would be harder on Jay? to lose contact with you, or to "violate Bob's orders" and get in trouble? Well who knows, that's something of an unsolveable riddle.

Re:
Quote:
"It pains me so much to think that there is nothing stopping Bob from continuing this destructive path, and using others like he used me. I don't believe he is truly polyamorous, unless polyamory implies using people as a means to an end."
Well, it sounds like Bob doesn't mind *Bob* having multiple partners, but Bob wants his partner/s to be monogamous (only being involved with Bob).

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Quote:
"This has been such an emotional roller coaster. I'm curious as to how common this is in a triad type relationship, I wonder if it can work, if it can be successful."
I think it can. There just needs to be realistic flexibility, generous communication, and honest intentions on the part of each person in the relationship.

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Quote:
"But I'm beginning to wonder that about any type of relationship, mono included. The idea of a life partner is starting to seem like a fantasy."
Don't give up all hope. Life partnering (the fulfilling, healthy kind) can be a reality. I can testify that to you from my own experience. And I know of many other life partners who are happy together (though I also know of others who aren't).

Re (from polyburned, Post #11):
Quote:
"When it comes to Jay it's just so incredibly frustrating. I just can't understand why he would stay with someone who treats him so poorly. I don't think he will be going anywhere any time soon, he is just terrified of having 'wasted five years.'"
How sadly ironic ... On the basis of those five years, Jay will continue pouring more years down the drain ...

Anyway, I'm glad you're feeling marginally better.
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  #14  
Old 05-05-2012, 11:22 PM
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With respect:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackUnicorn View Post
Also would like to comment on LoveFromGirl's suggestion: prosecution will just make it more likely that people like the OP continue to be exposed to risks they don't want to take. HIV isn't passed from one person to the next by people who know they are HIV positive: it's passed on by people who don't know their status, either because they have no idea of the risks involved or they are too scared to test. Criminal prosecution practises like bashing HIV positive people who engage in consensual and protected sexual activities is only going to increase the number of people who choose not to test because they don't want to know, don't want to deal with the stigma and don't want to be possibly facing criminal charges. No knowledge of status, no case.
In an ideal world, you would be correct. Meanwhile, a quick browse through Wikipedia pulls up Nadja Benaissa, a pop singer who apparently had unprotected sex with HIV-negative individuals and infected one. Your own country went after an American who, to my neverending shame, did this to seventeen Finnish women.

"I didn't mean to" is no longer an excuse when you know what you have and that it could kill someone else. Neither is "I only wanted unprotected sex". Neither is "My doctor said my risk was near-zero." Near-zero is not zero. Antiretrovirals aren't a cure. They are a treatment. Viral loads so low transmission should not be possible do not negate the right of the one at risk to decide whether the risk is worth her while.

If this were entirely theoretical, sure. Awful laws. Bad laws. Strike 'em down. It isn't. I wish it were.

Quote:
Many life-threatening if untreated and permanent STDs for which testing is available are not similarly criminalized. HIV carries unique stigma, most likely because it's a disease associated with gays, drug users and Black people.
So are the other major viral/permanent STDs, to the point where CDC investigators in the early 1980s looked to blood samples taken from those who were positive for hepatitis B for reservoirs of virus--a cohort comprised of gay men, if memory serves. Hep B, hep C, HIV, I don't hear straight white suburbanites talking about them.

I think if it's incurable and deadly without timely treatment to a previously-healthy human being, knowingly transmitting it should be a crime. This draws the line between something like herpes or HPV and something like hep C. If my liberal/progressive cred just took a hit, tough nuggets. Public health is my first concern.

Quote:
Fighting the stigma associated with HIV is the only way to stop the epidemic. Condoms are effective against the infection; people need to get tested, know their HIV status and get on the medication they need. This cannot be if knowing your status carries criminal liability.
You fail to comprehend that automatically knowing one's status does not constitute liability under the law. Knowing one's status and doing nothing about it does. Both conditions must be present, I believe--any lawyers able to confirm or deny?

Quote:
Adult people who engage in consensual sex are responsible for their own protection against STDs, i.e. whether they choose to use condoms or not. The OP did, and is reaping the benefits as we speak.
If an adult lies to another adult about her status, how can the second adult possibly make an informed decision? The second adult believes her risk is reduced and acts accordingly. Don't put responsibility on the shoulders of someone who hasn't been given the full story even when she asks for it. It is that second adult's right to decide whether she wishes to risk her health, full stop, not the first adult's right to decide for her because--what, the second might refuse sex?

And if those two adults are fluid-bonded, except that one has had an affair and decided not to disclose any of the consequences to her partner? What then?

Two situations off the top of my head where consensual sex isn't necessarily the issue, unless you are willing to define the withholding of a critical piece of information as rape or coercion.
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  #15  
Old 05-05-2012, 11:28 PM
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If you want to take this to PM, please do. I don't want to participate in public online discussions which further seek to marginalize and demonize an already marginalized and demonized population.
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  #16  
Old 05-06-2012, 12:02 AM
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I made my points. I am satisfied that they're out there. I don't think either of us is liable to change, so the notion of arguing further is pretty silly.
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  #17  
Old 05-06-2012, 02:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polyburned View Post
In terms of the hiv risk, I can only stay optimistic and trust that having safe sex was enough to protect me.
If it's any consolation, I once had a boyfriend who was HIV+. He was a recovering heroin addict, and I didn't find out he had HIV until after we broke up (oh, and yeah, I found out from a mutual friend - he didn't even try contacting any of his ex-girlfriends. Ugh!). This was back in the mid-80s, when it was much scarier than it is today (IMO) because they didn't have all those medications. Well, he and I always used condoms and I never got it. So... maybe that will ease your mind a little bit.
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  #18  
Old 05-06-2012, 07:24 PM
polyburned polyburned is offline
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You guys have no idea how much your support means to me. It feels great to finally open up about this to someone. I wish I could get this couple out of my head. I know it's still fresh, but I still think about them basically all day, from the time I wake up till the time i go to bed. It's so frustrating. It definitely doesn't help that the company I work for is going out of business, and the stress of finding a new job is really getting to me as well.

I know these things aren't logical, but jay is aware that he is being mistreated and I think he fears the change that a break up would entail, and the fact that he doesn't make enough money to live on his own and would have to move back to west virginia if he broke up with bob probably has something to do with it.

Jay said something that was very telling to me last time we spoke, that in the beginning of our relationship when he noticed the bond I had with him was so strong, and felt the imbalance between our relationship and my relationship with bob, he said he wished he ended it. He said he wished it never happened. That probably hurt me the most. As many regrets as I have, my relationship with him isn't one of them. Me and jay clicked so well on every level, I felt like I knew him for a lifetime. I know he felt it too, he told me many times. And bob felt that way about me as well, at one point bob was ready to dump jay for me, and I had to talk him off the ledge, explaining if jay was gone I wouldn't just be his replacement. And jay knows this, yet he is still by bobs side. I don't think he will ever leave, I suspect jay will simply be there until bob decides to dump him, and im sure I've bought their relationship another year or so bc bob saw how into jay I was, and is now squeezing onto him for dear life.

Kevin, I agree with everything u said. I don't know if this is hard on jay as it is on me, bc he has the support of bob right now who is clinging on to him and convincing him that I am the source of all of their anxiety and problems. And your dead on about bob wanting multiple partners for himself and for jay to be his alone. after banning jay from seeing me and without giving me so much as an explanation, within a week he was back online with the words "trying again" in the tag line. his unicorn hunting continues, I just hope the next person doesn't make the same naive mistakes that I did. Anyway, I'm sure ur right, that the notion of a life partner is possible, I'm just pessimistic at the moment. But alas I am a hopeless romantic at the end of the day, and i do believe in love.

I think I have become the scapegoat for everything wrong in bob and jays relationship, and I know that bob is doing everything in his power to convince jay of that. In hindsight bob is one of the most emotionally abusive, selfish people i have ever met. That night when i fell asleep on his couch, he literally had a temper tantrum like a toddler when I didn't want to get in bed with him. He never spoke to me again, just texted me to never contact him or his boyfriend again. And blamed me for everything, as I hear from jay, he mopes around playing the victim, acting depressed if jay even brings up my name, and throws more temper tantrums if he wants to hang out with me, pounding his fist on the wall like a child, mind you this is a 38 year old man.

At this point I just feel sorry for jay. I really love him and want the best for him, even if it's not me, I want him to be happy. And it makes me sad that he is happy with bob, who has told me several times, that he doesn't even like or respect him. What a mess. Jay is overwhelmed easily by highly emotional situations, and would rather sit back and let things happen around him. That's why I think he won't go anywhere anytime soon, regardless of how poorly he is treated, if that relationship ends it will be bc bob gets sick of jay and decides to trade him in for a younger guy.

Blackunicorn, I'm sending u a PM. I agree with u that people with HIV are so demonized and stigmatized in our society, and I believe that's why bob felt it necessary to lie to me. That's definitely not an excuse, what he did was the ultimate form of selfishness.

Nycindie, ur story does make me feel a little better. It definitely helps to hear from others who have had similar experiences. Everyone's responses have really helped me to put things into perspective. I would probably still be an emotional mess had I not had the support from everyone here, I am so grateful and will try my best to pay it forward. Each day is still a struggle right now, but I'm hopeful for the future. I think I can get over the betrayal by bob, I just wonder if these feelings for jay will ever go away. I love him so much and miss him all the time.
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  #19  
Old 05-07-2012, 03:32 AM
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Re:
Quote:
"I think I can get over the betrayal by Bob, I just wonder if these feelings for Jay will ever go away."
Oh, I don't suppose they ever will. They'll probably "simmer down" and "sting less" after (quite) awhile, but you'll probably always have a certain emptiness in your heart where Jay used to be. Relationships that strong don't just go away; they always leave an echo.

I think you're upholding as good and positive an attitude as anyone could be expected to under your circumstances. Sorry to hear about your job situation; you certainly don't need that extra stress.

Jay sounds like a scared/wounded man. I suppose I should be saying that about Bob, as the tantrums reveal Bob's inner insecurity, but Jay paints a picture of fear and trembling. It'll probably be better for him if Bob does (someday) leave him for someone else, but it's not my place to judge how difficult it is to be in Jay's shoes.

I hope you find some healing and relief in the months ahead.
Sincerely,
Kevin T.
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  #20  
Old 05-07-2012, 11:09 AM
swmnkdinthervr swmnkdinthervr is offline
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Originally Posted by lovefromgirl View Post
It's not, though.

Because a surefire way to get him out of society, stop him doing this to anyone again, and maybe free Jay from the abuse is prosecution.

Hence why I brought it up at all.
That is a very important point...it really is your responsibility now that you have the knowledge to do what you can to help remove this threat from society. To do less is to enable "Bob" to continue in his "murderous" quest. Would you report what you saw to the authorities if you saw someone murder someone else???
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