Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > General Poly Discussions

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 01-09-2010, 07:35 PM
GroundedSpirit GroundedSpirit is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New England USA
Posts: 1,231
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by River View Post
What I desire is a word that means "bi-amorous," but which rolls off the tongue better, and sounds better.
I understand and basically agree with what you're getting at. A term like "biamoruous" would at first glance be quite unambiguous. Good.
Not sure there isn't such a term - or similar. Problem being this is a binary term in a non-binary world.
Unfortunately for myself, as I read up & think on such subjects trying to understand and better educate myself, it seems we have to now also deal with how we can encompass the .....transgendered community. If that's even the right term. Things were simpler when we primarily had to deal
sexual identity as it stood - biologically. Now we are seeing an explosion where many people's sexuality cannot really be defined biologically - i.e that we don't just have gay or lesbian to incorporate but folks who are physically one gender but emotionally & psychologically the opposite.
So to encompass all combinations it seems we need to adopt a term such as "panamourous" ? Or polyamorous? But as you say, "panamorous" doesn't flow real well off the tongue. But while writing this I searched and discovered that someone else seems to have already coined the term. Ahhhhhhh - learning every day !

http://www.xeromag.com/fvpolyglossary.html#vee

So now - do you have to identify as a polyamorist panamorous ? Damn humans are complicated !

Last edited by GroundedSpirit; 01-09-2010 at 07:38 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 01-09-2010, 09:09 PM
River's Avatar
River River is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NM, USA
Posts: 1,894
Default

I was surprised to see a LOT of usage of the term "biamorous" when I googled it. It seems to be in wide usage in polyamory discourse, as well.

"http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=biamorous&rlz=1W1SKPB_en& aq=f&oq=&aqi="

"Panamorous" is also apparently being used, but with more vagueness than biamorous, so far as I can tell from a quick look at usages. Panamorous is a prettier word than biamorous, but only barely. I think that the usefulness of biamorous and biamory, along with it's actual usage in discourse, makes it palatable enough, after all. I'll be describing myself as biamorous until a prettier word comes along. From this moment forward, I am no longer describing myself as "bisexual". I'm biamorous and polyamorous.
__________________
bi, partnered, available

River's Blog
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 01-10-2010, 12:32 AM
Ravenesque's Avatar
Ravenesque Ravenesque is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 297
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by River View Post
What I desire is a word that means "bi-amorous," but which rolls off the tongue better, and sounds better.

There are those who have more-or-less strictly sexual relationships with others, where the sexual encounter involves little intimacy of other kinds. These are often as brief as one night stands. Sometimes they last a little longer, but no love bond is formed in them. They are not truly "amorous"; they are not loving relationships, per se. These folks engage in sex as recreation.

Well, I'm not one of those people. I have to actually like my partners, or I'm not going to get between the sheets (so to speak) with them. And if I like them, I'm going to want to stick around and get to know them in various dimentions of intimacy. That is what is meant by "amorous" -- for me. And the term "bisexuality" doesn't emphasize these other dimentions of intimacy. It leaves them out, altogether, while completely emphasizing the sex part of the whole spectrum of intimacy.

This might not matter to some people, but it matters to me in large part because when another approaches me with recreational sex on his/her mind, I might mistake that approach for amorous interest -- when in fact the same person may never like to talk with me, or see me again (after the casual, loveless, sex they want). And when I approach, I don't want to be confused for one who wants a one night stand. So why not have a word for the distinction? Bisexuals can very well be sexual with persons of either sex, but can they (or are they interested in) what may be called "full spectrum intimacy" (intimacy including physical/sexual/sensual but also emotional, intellectual, spiritual dimentions of our being? Are they interested in the heart as much as in the groin? If they are, and they are also attracted to both sexes in this way, then they are "bi-amorous". Not all bisexuals are "bi-amorous".

In this way, I am definitely not "bisexual" -- but I am definitely "bi-amorous".

I'm saying all of this because I've been hurt by people who wanted to be with me sexually, but who were not willing to be with me in a more rounded, whole way. I'm certain I'm not alone in this! Enough mixed signals, already. Let us have a verbal designation!

[This post is also a response to the post following the one in I quoted from.]

Ah I see. I am still not sure what you see the term "bisexual" describing. What you describe sounds similar to what others describe when speaking of the word polyamorous and why they use it. What would be the difference between the words polyamorous and biamorous for you?

~Raven~
__________________
Are you a polyamorist or non-monogamous individual between the ages 18-35? Are you located in New York State or the Northeast?
Join us at The Network, a social and socially aware network which connects young polys and progressive polys of all ages.



~Open up your mind and let me step inside.
Rest your weary head and let your heart decide. It's so easy.
When you know the rules.
It's so easy. All you have to do is fall in love.
Play the game.
Everybody play the game of love. Yeah...~
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 01-10-2010, 12:49 AM
River's Avatar
River River is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NM, USA
Posts: 1,894
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenesque View Post
What would be the difference between the words polyamorous and biamorous for you?
~Raven~
Some self-described bisexuals are also biamorous, but many are not. A bisexual person may be monoamorous! That is, he or she may be sexually attracted to a person of the same (or opposite) sex, but not amorously
attracted -- or even capable!

Jack may like to have sex with other guys, but can only have a "romantic" relationship with women. Jack is monoamorous. Jill, on the other hand, is both sexually and amorously attracted (and capable) with both sexes -- male and female. Jill is biamorous.

John likes to have sex with both men and women, but has no interest in "full spectrum intimacy". For John, sex is a pleasurable form of recreation which has no relation to other kinds of intimacy, e.g., intimate talk, sharing feelings, expressing and exploring the mysteries together.... John just wants to have some "hot" sex and call it an evening. John is not amorous at all. He's bisexual without any biamory.

Tanya is biamorous, but also describes herself as asexual. She has passionate loving relationships with men and women which involve all aspects of intimacy except sex, per se. Tanya is biamorous, but not bisexual. She is also polyamorous and asexual.

====

The point of the term "biamory" is to emphasize that sex isn't at the core of loving relationships--, not even passionate ones. Sure, most biamorous people are also bisexual. But not all bisexuals are biamorous!

Our language should reflect these differences. After all, pretty much everything else in the world has a proper name which distinguishes varieties.
__________________
bi, partnered, available

River's Blog
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 01-10-2010, 12:56 AM
Ravenesque's Avatar
Ravenesque Ravenesque is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 297
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GroundedSpirit View Post
I understand and basically agree with what you're getting at. A term like "biamoruous" would at first glance be quite unambiguous. Good.
Not sure there isn't such a term - or similar. Problem being this is a binary term in a non-binary world.
Unfortunately for myself, as I read up & think on such subjects trying to understand and better educate myself, it seems we have to now also deal with how we can encompass the .....transgendered community. If that's even the right term. Things were simpler when we primarily had to deal
sexual identity as it stood - biologically. Now we are seeing an explosion where many people's sexuality cannot really be defined biologically - i.e that we don't just have gay or lesbian to incorporate but folks who are physically one gender but emotionally & psychologically the opposite.
So to encompass all combinations it seems we need to adopt a term such as "panamourous" ? Or polyamorous? But as you say, "panamorous" doesn't flow real well off the tongue. But while writing this I searched and discovered that someone else seems to have already coined the term. Ahhhhhhh - learning every day !

http://www.xeromag.com/fvpolyglossary.html#vee

So now - do you have to identify as a polyamorist panamorous ? Damn humans are complicated !
If I have to use words, I use the term "pansexual" to describe what sexual attraction feels like to me (as I use polyamorous to describe the knowledge that I want more than one relationship). I don't recognize two genders. I believe there are far more than that and could possibly be impossible to categorize. It is more than gender. It is more than sight; seeing a person and being attracted. There are many mediums through which such attraction can be felt. Sound, touch, the written word.

It's not all that complicated :P But perhaps intricate. A little time to learn where the threads interweave and intersect for different people.

~Raven~
__________________
Are you a polyamorist or non-monogamous individual between the ages 18-35? Are you located in New York State or the Northeast?
Join us at The Network, a social and socially aware network which connects young polys and progressive polys of all ages.



~Open up your mind and let me step inside.
Rest your weary head and let your heart decide. It's so easy.
When you know the rules.
It's so easy. All you have to do is fall in love.
Play the game.
Everybody play the game of love. Yeah...~
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 01-10-2010, 01:02 AM
River's Avatar
River River is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NM, USA
Posts: 1,894
Default

Ooops! I didn't answer the question properly. Sorry.

The question was about my way of describing the difference between polyamory and biamory.

Here's my answer -- for the moment.:

Polyamory is a term describing a particular sort of non-monogamous relationship or relationship style.

Polyamorous people can be heteroamorous, biamorous, or homoamorous. They may also be homo-, bi-, or hetero- sexual. Not all bisexual people are also biamorous. Etc.

Some biamorous people are also polyamorous (e.g., myself), but not all of them -- by any means. One can be biamorous and staunchly monogamous. Biamorous folks are romantically attracted to both sexes. Polyamorous people are open to multiple, simultanious romantic relationships which are rooted in honesty.
__________________
bi, partnered, available

River's Blog

Last edited by River; 01-10-2010 at 01:06 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 01-10-2010, 01:03 AM
Ravenesque's Avatar
Ravenesque Ravenesque is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 297
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by River View Post
The point of the term "biamory" is to emphasize that sex isn't at the core of loving relationships--, not even passionate ones. Sure, most biamorous people are also bisexual. But not all bisexuals are biamorous!

Our language should reflect these differences. After all, pretty much everything else in the world has a proper name which distinguishes varieties.
*grins* I understand your perspective on it now. Your examples were helpful. I'd get what you mean when you use the terms where I wouldn't have previously.

I wouldn't use them in this way myself but I'd understand you and the view behind it.

~Raven~
__________________
Are you a polyamorist or non-monogamous individual between the ages 18-35? Are you located in New York State or the Northeast?
Join us at The Network, a social and socially aware network which connects young polys and progressive polys of all ages.



~Open up your mind and let me step inside.
Rest your weary head and let your heart decide. It's so easy.
When you know the rules.
It's so easy. All you have to do is fall in love.
Play the game.
Everybody play the game of love. Yeah...~
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 01-10-2010, 01:12 AM
Ravenesque's Avatar
Ravenesque Ravenesque is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 297
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by River View Post
Ooops! I didn't answer the question properly. Sorry.

The question was about my way of describing the difference between polyamory and biamory.

Here's my answer -- for the moment.:

Polyamory is a term describing a particular sort of non-monogamous relationship or relationship style.

Polyamorous people can be heteroamorous, biamorous, or homoamorous. They may also be homo-, bi-, or hetero- sexual. Not all bisexual people are also biamorous. Etc.

Some biamorous people are also polyamrous (e.g., myself), but not all of them -- by any means. One can be biamorous and staunchly monogamous. Biamorous folks are romantically attracted to both sexes. Polyamorous people are open to multiple, simultanious romantic relationships which are rooted in honesty.
LoL, don't worry. I actually came to that conclusion from what you were saying in the examples. Based on your reasoning, though the portion of the word '-amorous' is the same, they mean different things and a person can be biamorous and polyamorous.

I also understand the distinction you're making between being able to have a sexual relationship and being able to have a romantic relationship with people based on a binary gender system.

~Raven~
__________________
Are you a polyamorist or non-monogamous individual between the ages 18-35? Are you located in New York State or the Northeast?
Join us at The Network, a social and socially aware network which connects young polys and progressive polys of all ages.



~Open up your mind and let me step inside.
Rest your weary head and let your heart decide. It's so easy.
When you know the rules.
It's so easy. All you have to do is fall in love.
Play the game.
Everybody play the game of love. Yeah...~
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 01-10-2010, 01:20 AM
River's Avatar
River River is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NM, USA
Posts: 1,894
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenesque View Post

I wouldn't use them in this way myself but I'd understand you and the view behind it.
====

It's difficult to guage how useful others might find these terms. But I have strong personal reasons for advocating for some multiplication of terminology. These reasons have much to do with being male as well as bi, and also American.

It seems to me that here in the USA there are a great many closeted queers. (Please don't make me define "queer"!) Many of the closet cases are homo- or bisexual, but are not (yet!) homo- or bi- amorous. For this reason, they are not available for homo- or bi- amorous relationships. But it is most difficult (at the initial stages of getting to know them) to know which is which -- and this difficulty is exacerbated by their own lack of self-knowledge and honesty -- and the fact that many simply don't know what love (amorousness) is, or conflate it with sex.

These days, a lot of folks find potential partners by posting personals ads online, or by coming together with common interest/networking groups, face to face. There are bi, gay, and hetero- meeting places, e.g., bars, clubs.... There are internet forums. There are social groups..., and all of these use names to designate what's going on, who's interested or available for what.

Many bi-, homo- and hetero- amorous folks don't want to mix a lot with those who are only interested in, or capable of, recreational sex. Etc.
__________________
bi, partnered, available

River's Blog

Last edited by River; 01-10-2010 at 01:22 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 01-10-2010, 01:37 AM
Ravenesque's Avatar
Ravenesque Ravenesque is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 297
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by River View Post
====

It's difficult to guage how useful others might find these terms. But I have strong personal reasons for advocating for some multiplication of terminology. These reasons have much to do with being male as well as bi, and also American.

....

Many bi-, homo- and hetero- amorous folks don't want to mix a lot with those who are only interested in, or capable of, recreational sex. Etc.
I understand the purpose, as you're proposing it, behind the word bi-amorous.

The reason I wouldn't use it myself has to do with my take on binaries as well as my preference for just saying what I mean and/or what I want, and clarifying if need be.

If I found that within the relationships I was having, there was an expectation for sex to be more prevalent than I wanted it to be because I self-identified as bisexual (which I did, up until I didn't), I'd simply start stating right off the bat "I am looking for a relationship with elements A, B and C, and actions A,B, and C and sex is not very high on my list at the moment. Are you looking for the same thing?"

I don't find it necessary for everyone to use the same word meaning the exact same thing in order to be understood or in order for me to understand another person.

I didn't have a clue what you were getting at with the bi-amorous bit. I asked a few questions and now I understand your perspective. It's not for me but it's not necessary for me to agree in order to understand.

I could define what "queer" means for me as well. It's not that much effort for me. Even if it was, it would be effort well spent in my opinion.

~Raven~
__________________
Are you a polyamorist or non-monogamous individual between the ages 18-35? Are you located in New York State or the Northeast?
Join us at The Network, a social and socially aware network which connects young polys and progressive polys of all ages.



~Open up your mind and let me step inside.
Rest your weary head and let your heart decide. It's so easy.
When you know the rules.
It's so easy. All you have to do is fall in love.
Play the game.
Everybody play the game of love. Yeah...~
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
bisexuality, gay, lesbian, lgbt, sexuality

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:50 PM.