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  #141  
Old 08-02-2011, 04:08 PM
Chimera Chimera is offline
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I don't know if you all mean it that way, but this discussion of whether there are "real" bisexuals makes me nervous. There's so much ignorance and biphobia out there. People automatically think it's a phase, or fake or you're doing it for a man or one day you'll discover your true self. I lost friends years ago when I had to come out again as "bi" -- the identity wasn't available to me when I was young. You were either straight or lesbian. Being able to say I was "queer" was a revelation and much more of a political position, which I liked. What I really hate is the stereotype of bisexuals being "easy" and only interested in sex. I think it's partly the cultural stereotype that's driving some of the behavior. There are all types of behavior of all sorts in every sexual orientation, at least from my personal experience. The most macho controlling person I was ever with was a butch lesbian!

I think this is not a problem with "bisexual" as a label, but the way that we're forced to create identities based on who we fuck and who we are romantically involved with. I think your questions are fair Black Unicorn, you want to know if someone's playing with your attraction. But I don't think those are exclusive questions for bi folks.
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  #142  
Old 08-02-2011, 05:50 PM
peabean peabean is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimera View Post

I think this is not a problem with "bisexual" as a label, but the way that we're forced to create identities based on who we fuck and who we are romantically involved with.

This really is the heart of the issue for me. I've identified as bisexual since high school. After dating both men and women in college I met my husband and we married. Suddenly I was defined as straight! People who knew me to have girlfriends in the past would mention it to me as my 'experimentation phase'. I find that completely repulsive and insulting. The relationships I had with both men AND women prior to my marriage were valid relationships with feelings of mutual trust and love. Just because I married a man doesn't make me straight!

Now we are in a relationship with a woman and I suddenly find myself facing these same questions. Friends who find out automatically assume that a) I was a lesbian all along, and b) I've left my husband for a woman.

Neither of these things is true. I'm still, and always was, a bisexual. My husband and I are closer than ever, and we form a triad so he certainly isn't left out. In fact, he is bisexual too and wishes we could find a man to include.

I really find it juvenile when people see me in a different way because of who I sleep with. That said, I'm not sure how I can change that mindset, even amongst my closest friends.
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  #143  
Old 08-02-2011, 07:43 PM
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River River is offline
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Most bi folk have had this crazy stuff going on where we're doubted and misunderstood. I even had one "friend" look me in the face and insist that my girlfriend was nothing more than a ticket to social acceptance! as a gay guy. She and I would be holding hands, kissing passionately, and he thought it was all some kind of act. Sheesh.
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  #144  
Old 08-02-2011, 08:10 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimera View Post
I don't know if you all mean it that way, but this discussion of whether there are "real" bisexuals makes me nervous. There's so much ignorance and biphobia out there. People automatically think it's a phase, or fake or you're doing it for a man or one day you'll discover your true self.
I really didn't mean to jump on some bandwagon about bisexuality not being real. I do however, admit to a certain judgement or resistance that rises up in me, specifically on this and other polyamory-focused forums, when women come here talking about how they are looking for a "girl" at their male partner's urging. It's not that I don't think these women would explore bisexuality on their own, but it is just always a red flag for me when it seems they are not in charge of their own sexuality and could wind up getting involved with women just to please a man. I did say: "it alarms me -- not the bisexuality, but the use of another person to satisfy their fantasies, AND a certain vibe that tells me there is a neediness on the woman's part for their male partner's approval -- so much that their own sexual ripening becomes tainted by it." It makes me skeptical and I admit that doubting them is one of the first thoughts that come up for me -- but I probably should have also mentioned that then I see my own personal work is to get past my initial reaction and try to see or engage with the person individually so that I see it for what it is.

I'm not part of the LGBT community, and live a pretty solitary life, so I don't have many bi or queer friends in my social circle. I have always embraced my inner prude as much as the open-minded part of me. I'm not going to pretend not to have judgments, but I do make an effort to look at them, dig deep, and deconstruct them.
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Last edited by nycindie; 08-02-2011 at 08:15 PM.
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  #145  
Old 08-03-2011, 03:31 PM
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BlackUnicorn BlackUnicorn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimera View Post
I don't know if you all mean it that way, but this discussion of whether there are "real" bisexuals makes me nervous. There's so much ignorance and biphobia out there.
One thing I didn't want to contribute with my post was biphobia. I've been excluded as a potential dating partner because of my bisexuality, since "I would always leave my female partner if the right man came along". My mum refuses to believe that such a thing as bisexuality can even exist, and thinks if I choose to be with a female primary I must be lesbian, because if I truly were bi I would rather dodge all the social penalties and date a man instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chimera View Post
I think this is not a problem with "bisexual" as a label, but the way that we're forced to create identities based on who we fuck and who we are romantically involved with. I think your questions are fair Black Unicorn, you want to know if someone's playing with your attraction. But I don't think those are exclusive questions for bi folks.
Nope, the whole open relationship/swinging/poly drama seems to center around the question of whether a person is truly polyamorous or just playing around. I will have to disagree about the problematics of labelling, though. We as a species seem to intent on organizing and labelling environmental stimuli. Because the real world is too complex for any useful categorizing, we make generalizations that help as orient ourselves in our environment and make decisions. This is not in itself a good or a bad thing; it's inevitable.

So the problem becomes that of over-generalizing. And the way "bisexual" is used as a label is, to my mind, over-generalizing. It is a broad umbrella term that covers the whole spectrum from occasional daydreaming to full-on two-gender triads. Most self-identified bisexuals fall somewhere in the middle of that spectrum.

So I think instead of being anti-label we could start using new, more specific labels in situations where we want to let others know whom we could consider as a potential life, dating or sex partner.
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  #146  
Old 08-03-2011, 04:16 PM
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Just wanted to link to this thread about NY state's new same sex marriage law.

http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12850
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  #147  
Old 08-03-2011, 05:30 PM
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In high school, I was attracted to females, but being brought up in a Christian home and coming from a Christian elementary/ middle school. I needed to get drunk to act on them. My husband, then boyfriend, Runic Wolf noticed this and while we were planning our wedding, told me that IHO I was bi-sexual and he was completely okay with me exploring that side of myself. I denied it for maybe a month before realizing that he was right. But 10 years later, I still need him to hold my hand when I am exploring a potential relationship a woman. We've had plenty of threesomes over the years, but that generally results in me getting all the attention or us giving him all the attention and me being too afraid to return the favor so to speak. Pretty Lady is my first real relationship with a female and my first fully mutually expressive sexual relationship as well. Runic Wolf and Wendigo were very patient with us while we sat on opposite couches inching closer to each other, trying to work up the courage to let go of our fear. It was worth it, but in the end they literally had to push and prod us towards each other that first time.
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  #148  
Old 08-05-2011, 01:36 PM
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nouryia nouryia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackUnicorn View Post
So the problem becomes that of over-generalizing. And the way "bisexual" is used as a label is, to my mind, over-generalizing. It is a broad umbrella term that covers the whole spectrum from occasional daydreaming to full-on two-gender triads. Most self-identified bisexuals fall somewhere in the middle of that spectrum.
So very true. Being 'bi' doesn't mean you want men and women equally all the time. And it isn't a fad either, it's a fact. Most people aren't 100% anything and preferences can change over time. I for one have been 'straight' all my life, but now, in my late thirties, I have been having fun with my bf's wife and enjoying it tremendously. She and I are each other's first female lover. Does that mean that we're faking it for our husbands' benefit? NO! In fact, I had fantasies of being with women on and off for many years, the opportunity just never presented itself...and now it has

My husband also identifies as bi and tends to me more attracted to men than women sexually, but still loves me and wants me and we're happy together. Incidentally, my b/f is bi too, and he's just a tad more into females at this stage of his life, but started out thinking he was gay in his teens. From what I can see, sexuality is...fluid. Nothing's set in stone and labels tend to be rather useless.
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  #149  
Old 08-05-2011, 02:00 PM
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^Interesting experiences. I, for one, was about 50/50 when I realised I'm bi, but nowadays I would propably identify as a lesbian if it wasn't for the fact I'm happily married to a man. It's just that I made that connection to him when I was into men, and it has lasted with my love for him, but I can't see myself starting a new relationship with a man anymore. Never say never, though.
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  #150  
Old 08-05-2011, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nouryia View Post
From what I can see, sexuality is...fluid. Nothing's set in stone and labels tend to be rather useless.
I certainly agree about the fluidity over time. I have had a meandering path in terms of my attraction to the sexes, with my attraction to other males being much stronger through much of my youth and young adulthood, as compared with my attraction to women. I've always been attracted to females somewhat, however. But lately I'm much, much more interested in the feminine, and am perhaps about equally attracted to men and women--or even slightly more attracted to women (probably because I've had so little experience with them and am quite curious). I also seem to be in love with my faraway female friend I met in this forum, but, as I have said, nothing is for certain until we spend time together. Still, there is definitely friend-love! and loads of it.

As for the proposition that labels are useless. I cannot agree. Maybe they are inadequate, but not useless. We need our shorthand terms, like "bi", which -- for example -- is a little more clarifying than "queer" (which I am).

But when I say "I'm bi", I mean that I'm biamorous, first and foremost. I also happen to be bisexual, but that's much less central to my experience of myself than my biamorousness. Many people are bisexual but not biamorous. And the difference is enormous, for only a biamorous person is capable of being fully in love with persons of either sex, while many bisexuals can only fall in love with a person one sex, or neither! Sex is not love!
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Last edited by River; 08-05-2011 at 02:53 PM.
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