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  #91  
Old 04-05-2011, 03:24 PM
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Is sex the central thing (deal) about being, um..., gay? The marketeers of "gay" seem to think so.

http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showt...4831#post74831
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  #92  
Old 04-06-2011, 12:30 PM
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I'm guessing you're referring to the theme of "sex sells" when it comes to gay-oriented businesses, like magazines, etc?

I dunno. I mean, there's always the stereotype that gay men sleep around more than straight men. But I've always believed it was not a gay vs straight thing. It was more because men in general are usually more horny than women...and that unfortunately for straight guys, they only get sex when the women in their lives will give it to them. Whereas a gay man, anytime he's in the mood can find another one who is too.

So to get back to your marketing thing, I think it's just reflective of all that. A travel agency advertising a gay cruise will have the ads covered with hot guys in bathing suites, but the ads for a cruise for straight couples will probably have pictures of romantic sunsets and other scenes to appeal to the women.
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  #93  
Old 04-06-2011, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by RfromRMC View Post
It was more because men in general are usually more horny than women...and that unfortunately for straight guys, they only get sex when the women in their lives will give it to them. Whereas a gay man, anytime he's in the mood can find another one who is too.

So to get back to your marketing thing, I think it's just reflective of all that. A travel agency advertising a gay cruise will have the ads covered with hot guys in bathing suites, but the ads for a cruise for straight couples will probably have pictures of romantic sunsets and other scenes to appeal to the women.
Hehee, since we are getting on to the world of stereotypes I'm happy to inform you that bi-women beat the shit out of men both gay and straight when it comes to having horns, so where are our sexy adds?

Seriously speaking, lesbian media marketing too is very sexualized, which doesn't sit well with some of the anti-commercial, anti-objectified-sex people involved in the community. I think it comes down to thinking that gay is a SEXUAL orientation - i.e. it's not about desiring relationships and sharing your life with people who share your gender identification, but it's about desiring a certain set of genitalia.

As to the are women less horny than men in general, I think the question is pretty impossible to solve in our current gender/orientation system. For women, heterosexual activity carries SO much cultural baggage as in being perceived as a bad girl, a slut, putting it out for the man, fear of pregnancy etc. that it would be strange if none of it carried to same-sex relationships, too, particularly since many more gay women than gay men have at some point in there lives been involved with the opposite sex, too. I know women who say that being gay is so liberating because there are no sluts in the dyke scene, just girls who get around. And then there are women who say it's so liberating not to have their female partner constantly initiate sex, unlike their previous male partners.

A woman friend of mine is so excited about her new sexual relationship with a man, not so much for the general sexual satisfaction but because she feels she is a properly functioning, desirable woman who is able to have heterosexual intercourse after all. Just sayin' it's not that simple 'women want it less' -issue.
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  #94  
Old 04-06-2011, 12:47 PM
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I think I'd do better in lesbian bars possibly. But I don't really do the club scene. Too expensive.
That, and what doesn't attract me to the scene at all is that many people my age involved tend to use alcohol rather heavily.
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  #95  
Old 04-06-2011, 06:48 PM
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Women have a much much MUCH! higher orgasmic potential than men. We are just as horny as men, if not more. We've just been programmed to be "pure" because of the patriarchy. We deny our own feelings to be seen as lady-like and mate material.
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  #96  
Old 04-06-2011, 09:09 PM
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.... I think it comes down to thinking that gay is a SEXUAL orientation - i.e. it's not about desiring relationships and sharing your life with people who share your gender identification, but it's about desiring a certain set of genitalia. ....
Right.

The very idea of "gay" (which I'm here using -- or stretching -- in a broad way, similar to "queer," as to include bi men -- such as myself) is marketed in a certain way, whether or not anything is being literally sold (which, usually, it is). That way--the way the term is tossed around--is sex-centered. Not loving-centered.

Now, I'm a BIG fan of sex. I really am. But sex is not the center of my attraction to men. It's juicy. It's exciting. It's fun. And it's a basic biological drive, etc. But, shit, so is loving! And loving isn't sex!

We men, and maybe women too, are being sold a bill of goods. We're being taught by the "marketeers" of culture that sex is MORE important than loving,
and the two need not have anything whatsoever to do with one another.

And so I think we need another term than gay, or we need to fight the marketeers and "rebrand" "gay".

I like the latter idea better. Let's take "gay" back from those who stole it from us! Let those who are into "just sex" ("NSA," etc., i.e., recreational sex with strangers and the kindred), be "homosexuals". They shouldn't mind. It's sex that they WANT at the center of their label. They don't want those "mooshy" feelings!

I want some damned mooshy feelings! That's what being "gay" should be all about. Er, rather, ... loving.
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  #97  
Old 04-07-2011, 12:27 PM
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Ah, River, that's why I love The Birdcage/La Cage au Folles. Mooshy loving feelings abound, between the 2 main characters, and in their family as well (their son, their houseboy, the son's gf, her parents, their family of queens downstairs in the club...).
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  #98  
Old 04-07-2011, 02:03 PM
scramcity scramcity is offline
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From what I can tell, the swinger scene is less open to gay men than polyamory is. I am not sure why except that maybe most porn is herteosexual guy fantasy material.
Hi thought I'd chime in
As a multi- decades lesbian turned bi thenswing then poly, I have observed this as well. I found the swing scene to be more poly minded often but yes definitely homophobic for men but not for women. Many bi men I spoke to shared their experiences of being seen as " too gay" and therefore often had to play it str8 to be involved. It seems like some aspects of swing are all about the str8 men's desires, yet they will quickly tell you it's really the women that have the control, as women are the gatekeepers to most parties. For Which the men need the women to gain access. After running thru these changes for myself I've found that the amount of bi people is about 400% larger than I'd previously been aware of. And also that the str8 people in my life have been far more open minded about my relationships than the majority of my gay friends.
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  #99  
Old 04-07-2011, 09:19 PM
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As a multi- decades lesbian turned bi...
Ooh, women who have transitioned from lesbian to bi intrigue me! Now I know you and Redpepper, there are probably others on this forum. Female sexual fluidity is something I spend absurd amounts of time thinking about, since I've moved a fair bit between identifying as a gay woman and identifying as a bi woman. Just now I'm comfortable with flexbian - primarily interested in women but willing to make exceptions for a few specific men. I find my 'man-phases' come and go, and more often than not probably become self-feeding cycles - opening yourself to one man leads to noticing others in a special way too, and then you allow other men a little more leeway, and sooner than you know it, you are on a man-binge!

I have been informed that nobody who likes cock as much as I do can be a lesbian. But to me, orientation is about emotional attraction first and foremost. If it were easier to meet women I'd probably stop actively dating men all together and just stick with my current sweetheart and any lovely ladies I could put under my spell. Maybe I'm one of those lesbians who end up married with a man after all.

I wonder how much of this emotional preference of mine has to do with having been brought up in a two-female-household. I've never lived with an adult male, related or unrelated, and was thus severely shocked by the discovery that although everyone calls them 'balls' or 'testicles', they are in fact located in the SAME bag! Like what is that about?! ATM I have a live-in mum and a live-in straight gf, and have one male friend who is as gay as a Swiss cuckoo clock. Like, how homo-social can one get, really?

Growing up I thought everyone was bisexual and was quite surprised to discover at the tender age of eleven that it was not so. I experienced my bisexual and feminist revelation pretty simultaneously, so I guess it's one of the reasons I feel so drawn to this quote by Alice Walker;
"A womanist is a woman who loves other women sexually and/or non-sexually. Appreciates and prefers women's culture, women's emotional flexibility (values tears as a natural counterbalance of laughter), and women's strength. Sometimes loves individual men, sexually and/or non-sexually."

So yeah, if the term had wider currency I'd love to be a womanist.

Midnight ramblings. Love 'em.
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  #100  
Old 04-08-2011, 02:08 AM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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Default Waving at the sexually fluid on the board!

Count me among the sexually fluid, lesbian-to-bi-to-???? types on the board. I think there are quite a few of us running about. I don't think enjoying cock makes one not a lesbian/queer/bi - I think it just means you like dick. Me too! Men who enjoy a finger in the ass are not automatically turned gay/queer by the experience - the reverse is true too.

Recently, I had the somewhat startling realization that the more I fuck men, the more I realize I have little in common with many mainstream, straight women.
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