Reinventing Ivy

[Ivy]

Originally Posted by MrFarFromRight

"No te comas el coco." [Don't eat your own head.]

I think I need that tattooed on my wrist.

Originally Posted by MrFarFromRight

If Ella insinuates that your closeness to Ben is going to make it unlikely that there'll be a resumption of her friendship towards you, then that's the definitive proof. People who use emotional blackmail of that kind are NOT worth having as friends!

I don't think there will be a resumption of friendship with either of them, regardless of the circumstances. Ben isn't comfortable being around me if Ella and I aren't on good terms, and the idea of me being involved with Ben, even on a platonic level, is to upsetting for Ella to cope with. Unfortunately, I don't think that's something that will improve with time and honesty, either.

I did read both stories--very enlightening!--but I don't think I'm going to start any conversations, with either of them. It can't go anywhere good, at least not for me.

I'm still struggling to climb out of this pit of low self-esteem, and being told that my low self-esteem is the cause of everyone's collective problems only makes me feel worse about myself. I can't figure out how to heal that without removing myself entirely from the situation.

Originally Posted by MrFarFromRight

6) Keep looking in that mirror... and SMILE at yourself, goddammit!

This I will do, however. At least until I fall over giggling.

Originally Posted by MrFarFromRight

7) If all else fails, plan a visit to Spain.

I wish. My college degrees are in Art History and Medieval Studies. I wouldn't want to leave.

[Ivy]

Originally Posted by nycindie

Ivy, I am amazed that you put so much effort in trying to make something work with those two. To me, it seems, neither one ever really made the same effort nor had much consideration for you.

There were bright spots that are probably overshadowed in my retelling. I do put a premium on maintaining relationships, though. On the one hand, it means my healthy relationships survive rough patches and endure for the long term. On the other hand, it usually takes me a long time to admit that a relationship was fundamentally flawed, for reasons that I had no control over. Control freak fail.

Originally Posted by nycindie

I also question whether it was ever really love you felt for Ella, or was it just a love of solving problems? Or a need to be wanted? Or... I'm not sure.

There was definite, powerful sexual attraction, and I cared (and still care) about her very much. Yes, even "loved" her, though I wonder now how much of it was actually romantic love and how much was simply platonic love coupled with a desire to "nurture" (this is probably what you mean by solving problems).

I've never done the FWB thing before, so I'm not sure I was prepared to differentiate between those feelings. She has a whole lot of FWBs, and she seemed to consider our relationship as something more significant...and, in retrospect, it felt really good to stand out from the crowd.

Originally Posted by nycindie

I think it is time you move on and be open to wonderfulness with other people who don't play games and then try to convince you there's something wrong with you. You deserve to be treated well and respected.

I'm trying. I feel really socially isolated right now, but that will improve with time.

I tried out for a banked-track roller derby league right after the breakup and made it (I'd only skated flat before), so I'm meeting lots of interesting people who yell at me to SKATE FASTER DAMMIT and GET MY ASS BACK ON THE TRACK.

At least my new friends prefer physical pain over psychological.

[Ivy]

Also (and this sucks to admit), Ben and Ella are the only people, apart from Vino, who've openly shown any attraction to me in more than a decade. I have friends who've told me I'm objectively attractive, or who do the friendly-flirt thing, but they're also quick to disclaim any actual interest.

So, it really feels like that was as good as it's ever going to get, and it'll be at least another decade before anyone shows interest. I KNOW that's my low self-esteem and nasty past experiences talking, so please don't rip into me for it! But it's still incredibly difficult to move past that feeling, real or imagined.

[nycindie]

Originally Posted by Ivy

I'm still struggling to climb out of this pit of low self-esteem, and being told that my low self-esteem is the cause of everyone's collective problems only makes me feel worse about myself.

Okay, people harping at you to fix your low self esteem aren't helping much. the more you hear that, the more you make it your mantra ("I have low self-esteem and need to fix it"), the more you believe it. Fuck that! Toss that old tape out.

Both Ella and Ben sound extremely immature and into drama. How dare they put you down for any reason!

Originally Posted by Ivy

Also (and this sucks to admit), Ben and Ella are the only people, apart from Vino, who've openly shown any attraction to me in more than a decade. I have friends who've told me I'm objectively attractive, or who do the friendly-flirt thing, but they're also quick to disclaim any actual interest.

I would safely hazard a guess that there were others interested but you just didn't see it through your Nobody's-ever-attracted-to-me blinders.

Originally Posted by Ivy

So, it really feels like that was as good as it's ever going to get, and it'll be at least another decade before anyone shows interest. I KNOW that's my low self-esteem and nasty past experiences talking, so please don't rip into me for it! But it's still incredibly difficult to move past that feeling, real or imagined.

We live in the atmosphere of our beliefs. If you don't like the atmosphere, change your beliefs. Really and truly, you can stop identifying yourself as someone with low self-esteem, who never attracts anyone. You have to be vigilant to nip those thoughts in the bud when they pop up and tell yourself to stop making up such bad shit about you. Replace that with "I am a confident, attractive woman with a lot to offer." If you tend to shlump around, work on your posture. If there are things you do that make you feel confident, hang around a crowd where that is appreciated.

And remember this, and this is important: We human beings always pick up the unconscious messages of others, like radio waves. If there are people you hang out with who portray an uber-cool and confident vibe and you feel insecure and like your esteem is in the toilet when you're around them, know that you are actually detecting how they really feel about themselves underneath their fake, manufactured bravado. Truly confident, secure people who really have their shit together inspire those around them to feel the same. Honestly, that is the truth. We feel good about ourselves when we hang with others who feel good about themselves. If we feel shitty around people who appear to have it together, then you know they are faking it and what you are sensing is their insecurities.

[Ivy]

Odd conversation with Vino last night.

I brought up the topic of whether it would help or hurt to try dating right now. It made him shifty, so I asked why. The gist is that he's watched how upset this has made me, and doesn't really understand why I would want to bother starting another relationship with anyone else. He says it's exhausting.

To be fair, he's pretty worn out from this, too. I've been improving, but I was pretty mopey for a while. He's sick to death of hearing about it, and it's been affecting our sex life, too (since I feel icky and undesirable and have been eating too much chocolate).

I clarified things, of course. He's not at all jealous of me dating women, though he does seem to think they're all emotional basketcases at the moment. He is jealous of men, but he's determined that it's a very deep, basic hostility toward other men's fertility (to be fair, I get pregnant if a guy sneezes on me, so it's not a baseless fear), rather than an emotional fear of losing me. In short, he's cool with me dating eunuchs.

But he just doesn't understand why I'd want to bother, with either. It really sounds overwhelming to him. He's very laid back and not particularly ambitious about anything, so it's not surprising. Unfortunately, I'm not happy unless I have an endlessly evolving array of hobbies and interests...so maybe it's not surprising that I'm not feeling quite "right" without additional social and sexual connections.

He says he understands this about me. But I'm still worried what damage it might do to our marriage if I starting actively trying to date again--even if I limited myself to women.

Me: Ya know, even with the problems, I did really enjoy having a "secondary" relationship.
Vino: So...you liked having someone who sort of liked you, and was sort of there for you some of the time?
Me: Um...yeah. I guess.

[nycindie]

Ha. Ivy, my guess is that you liked the idea of going against societal norms. But hey you can do that by re-investing in your marriage and finding ways to make that more exciting and fulfilling (so few couples do that, it would be going against the grain!). Why not spend time working on YOU, and satisfy that need for hobbies with things you like to do but which are not relationships? Why not take time out for peace and tranquility, go to some meditation retreat or something? Come back from self-exploration stronger and more comfy with YOU, and you will attract more mature, kind, loving people for additional relationships. I dare say the idiocy of those two, and the drama they created, could have something to do with, perhaps, a dissatisfaction on your part with living on an even keel. I have a friend like you, and I often kid him by saying "You can't hit a moving target, right?" Slow down, feel the hurt, confusion, sadness that is there as well as the joy, sense of accomplishments, and so on. That is where your confidence will come, by the way.

[SNeacail]

Originally Posted by Ivy

Unfortunately, I'm not happy unless I have an endlessly evolving array of hobbies and interests...

LOL, this describes my whole family . I'm joining a historical re-enactment group, where I can put ot use some of things I already love to do, but find that I am really excited about learning some new stuff . I need another hobby like I need a hole in my head

[Ivy]

Originally Posted by nycindie

Why not take time out for peace and tranquility, go to some meditation retreat or something?

My first thought was, "nope, there's no way I can fit that in my schedule!"

[Ivy]

Originally Posted by SNeacail

I'm joining a historical re-enactment group, where I can put ot use some of things I already love to do....

SCA, by any chance? I've been struggling not to join that for years--just too much of a time commitment. But I really really wanna!

[SNeacail]

Originally Posted by Ivy

SCA, by any chance? I've been struggling not to join that for years--just too much of a time commitment. But I really really wanna!

Not really, but I think quite a few members participate in both. It's a Scottish highland group, that has a big presence at the local Ren Faire and other events. I'm still a bit clueless about all the logistics still.