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Old 04-26-2011, 10:01 PM
kazokujin kazokujin is offline
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Default Sort of an introduction... (Young couple with multiple interests)

Hi, all. We're a younger couple (late 20's, the husband is writing this) beginning to explore poly living in a very particular way. We've been together since high school, married for almost 4 years now through the thick and the thin.

I am a graduate student in the social sciences, and some of my research in the last couple of years has taken me into investigations of secular polygamous movements. As a result, both of us have come to really appreciate the value and strength and love that large families can possess, and to understand that the 2-person nuclear family ideal is just a sham that's been pulled over the eyes of the last few generations. (We both come from very "standard" families that were really hurt and broken by the strains placed upon them in life.)

So really, our interests are two-fold:

1. We're very tentatively trying to get a feel for the ins and outs of poly, and to see if there's room in it (and a partner in it) for us. We'd (eventually) be looking to expand our marriage to a second young woman around our age. We're not particularly religious, so this has nothing to do with that. We'd be looking at it more from a "dating" approach than a spiritual calling, but with the intent to become a real family, with kids and everything somewhere in the long-term picture. My wife is not particularly bisexual, but we aren't closed to any possibilities. We're just emphasizing that, while sex is great (we're big fans), our interest in this is entirely predicated on family and commitment.

So there's the personal side of it. Here's the other one:

2. As I mentioned, I'm building a career as an academic scholar, and one of the major areas of research I'm exploring is non-fundamentalist, polygamous families in modern societies. As I'm sure you all can imagine, doing research on such a subject isn't like researching the marine sciences or childhood education where you just call up the administrator of the local network or institution and ask to come for a visit. Instead, I've got to try and dig up networks of people myself, get to know them, validate the claim that I have only the best of intentions to try and make a career out of mainstreaming acceptance of polyamorous lifestyles, and then ask if anyone is willing to assist me in my research. So that's why I'm here academically, hoping to find people that fit the above and are willing to chat with me or put me in touch with same.

Anyway, whether either of the above applies to you or not, we're pleased to make everyone's acquaintance and hope to have a great deal of conversation with you all!

Last edited by kazokujin; 04-26-2011 at 10:10 PM.
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Old 04-26-2011, 10:15 PM
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I'd be happy to assist. Check out my blog and see if I am a fit. Welcome
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Old 04-26-2011, 11:09 PM
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If you start socializing and hitting the threads-you'll meet lots of us. There's some poly links on my personal blog as well-if you PM me I will give you more info.
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Old 04-27-2011, 12:20 AM
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kazokujin, I'm intrigued about one aspect of your post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kazokujin View Post
[...] both of us have come [...] to understand that the 2-person nuclear family ideal is just a sham that's been pulled over the eyes of the last few generations. (We both come from very "standard" families that were really hurt and broken by the strains placed upon them in life.)
[...] We're very tentatively trying to get a feel for the ins and outs of poly, and to see if there's room in it (and a partner in it) for us. We'd (eventually) be looking to expand our marriage to a second young woman around our age. We're not particularly religious, so this has nothing to do with that. [...] My wife is not particularly bisexual, but we aren't closed to any possibilities.
Why - if your wife is not particularly bisexual - are you looking to expand [y]our marriage to a second young woman around [y]our age?

Are you planning a V (you having a relationship which each of 2 women who don't have a [romantic/sexual] relationship with each other)? A triad (where each of the 3 is involved romantically/sexually with the other 2) - even though your wife is not particularly bisexual?

Have you [both] contemplated at all that your wife might have a meaningful relationship with another man?

I really don't want to jump to any conclusions, but I think that you might consider the possibility that you [the husband] are being a teensy bit self-centred here. It's a fantasy of many non-poly men to have (with or without their wives' permission) a "woman on the side". It's another common male fantasy to be in bed with 2 women at the same time.

You also write:
Quote:
We'd be looking at it [...] with the intent to become a real family, with kids and everything somewhere in the long-term picture. [...] We're just emphasizing that [...] our interest in this is entirely predicated on family and commitment.
Does this all boil down to meaning that - for the sake of a healthier family than the standard nuclear one - it would be a good idea to have a father and 2 mothers? What about a mother and 2 (loving, caring) fathers? Have a look at the thread "Just LR". LR doesn't pretend that it's all easy - in fact, she's going through a pretty rough patch right now [and if you think that 1 man + 2 women is all going to be super-duper easy-peasy, you'd better get your head out of that cloud] - but she's in a situation where 2 men are playing father to all of her children. And here's something else to look at.

While you're questioning
Quote:
the 2-person nuclear family ideal [as] just a sham that's been pulled over the eyes of the last few generations. (We both come from very "standard" families that were really hurt and broken by the strains placed upon them in life.)
you might consider questioning the shams that
a) men should always get the better deal; and
b) it's the woman's place to look after the children.

As I wrote, I really don't want to jump to any conclusions, and maybe you're already questioning these shams pulled over the eyes of HUNDREDS of generations... but then (again) why - if your wife is not particularly bisexual - are you looking to expand [y]our marriage to a second young woman around [y]our age?

Think about it... both of you!

p.s. Welcome to the club!
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- from "Boundless Love (A Polyamory Song)" by Jimmy Hollis i Dickson
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Old 04-27-2011, 12:33 AM
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Quote:
As I mentioned, I'm building a career as an academic scholar, and one of the major areas of research I'm exploring is non-fundamentalist, polygamous families in modern societies.
Welcome to the board. I'd be happy to answer whatever I can, if you have questions. I'm fairly new there, but folks seem really friendly, if you just hang out, I'm sure you'll learn a lot.
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Old 04-27-2011, 12:50 AM
kazokujin kazokujin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFarFromRight View Post
I really don't want to jump to any conclusions, but...
Um... I don't want to jump to any conclusions either, but the tone of your post seems to be jumping to a lot of conclusions. Yes, we've talked about all of the things you mentioned. We've talked extensively about many different options. My wife knows under no uncertain terms that she is absolutely free to express her preferences about our relationship--including any interest she might have in having some kind of relationship with another man. At one point I even encouraged her to explore it if she felt at all inclined to do so. Likewise, she has expressed repeatedly, under no uncertain terms, that that is of no interest to her.

It also seems like you're jumping to a lot of conclusions about my/our belief system: that we believe that whoever has the most sex has the "better deal," or that because we're looking into a polygynous family structure we've automatically adopted a "male-breadwinner, female-homemaker" value system. I can assure you that neither of those describes our values, and that gender equality (which does not necessarily prescribe gender identicality) is one of the cornerstones of both our separate and mutual philosophies. I really feel like I shouldn't be having to justify that, though.

As I tried to make clear, our primary interest in this endeavor is family-oriented, rather than sexual. Does having more than one sexual partner appeal to me? Would anyone believe me if I said it didn't? But that's not the motivating factor for us, and we don't even intend that I be sexually intimate with another partner until/unless a real, marital commitment is made. So to answer one question you asked: yes, a lot of it does boil down to a (entirely mutual) belief that a father and two mothers might be the best family structure for us.

I tried to make it clear in my initial post that the interests I was expressing as representative of our marriage were predicated on mutual communication, understanding, and agreement. I'm not sure why what I said led you to conclude that I was being the stereotypical "think-with-the-lower-head" guy, but I'm saying now, explicitly, that that's not our situation. We believe (and my wife would tell you the same), that there is a unique value to the father-and-multiple-mothers family structure that is very appealing to us for a great many reasons. We also understand that it (like ANY relationship) would not be easy, and that is why we are expressing a wish to EXPLORE it, rather than to jump blindly into the thick of things and hope for the best.

I hope that answers your questions

Last edited by kazokujin; 04-27-2011 at 12:57 AM.
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Old 04-27-2011, 02:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kazokujin View Post
Um... I don't want to jump to any conclusions either, but the tone of your post seems to be jumping to a lot of conclusions.
This could go 'round and 'round in circles but maybe you're jumping to conclusions about my jumping to conclusions. As I wrote the 2nd time,
Quote:
As I wrote, I really don't want to jump to any conclusions, and maybe you're already questioning these shams
[underlining added this time around]
I was posing some questions that I thought might be interesting for you to consider if you hadn't already. I'm glad to read that you have.

If what you now envisage is a large(r) 3-parent family without a romantic attachment between either you or your wife and the other woman, I would consider that co-parenting rather than polyamory. And no, I didn't write sexual just now, I wrote romantic. For me, the love involved in polyamory is much more important than the sex, but the "flavour" of that love is defining. I'm not saying that sex is a prerequisite for consideration as a polyamorous group. But - to take an extreme example - in a large, happy, nuclear family it`s possible that every member loves every other member very truly and very deeply (filial, maternal, fraternal love). But I would hardly consider that a polyamorous group. To take a less extreme example, I lived for a while with a couple and their 2 daughters. I cared for (felt the love of friendship for) the couple. The children were - and now as adults continue to be - among the most important people in my life. I was - and am - a part of that family. But that wasn't a case of polyamory either, it was co-parenting.

Since you wrote of polyamory ("and to see if there's room in it (and a partner in it) for us") - and that you've studied the matter academically - perhaps I did jump to the conclusion that you were writing about considering a romantic and/or sexual attachment.

I stand corrected.
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- from "Boundless Love (A Polyamory Song)" by Jimmy Hollis i Dickson
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Old 04-27-2011, 03:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kazokujin View Post
We're . . . beginning to explore poly living in a very particular way.
Only way to do it!

Welcome!
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Old 04-27-2011, 03:48 AM
kazokujin kazokujin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFarFromRight View Post
I was posing some questions that I thought might be interesting for you to consider if you hadn't already. I'm glad to read that you have...
Since you wrote of polyamory ("and to see if there's room in it (and a partner in it) for us") - and that you've studied the matter academically - perhaps I did jump to the conclusion that you were writing about considering a romantic and/or sexual attachment.
I stand corrected.
Well... to avoid further confusion, let me be as clear as possible: we envision a marriage of 3 (at least for the foreseeable future) spouses--2 wives and a husband--with all the normal tenets a marital relationship entails. This is our choice mutually, with no coercion, persuasion, or knee-jerk jumps involved. It is one we believe (may be) right for us, and it comes after carefully and honestly evaluating the alternatives together. For my wife, she says that means for her a sister and friend, someone who can share in the joys and sorrows of life, family, children, and so on day after day in the way that only two women can (a "sister-wife," if one prefers such terms). For me, it means a stronger female presence in my life--romantic, familial, sexual, and so on--which I value highly. For both of us together it means a larger, stronger family with more love and more shoulders to share the load between. I realize that these are priorities which not everyone may share, and which even those who do may seek to fulfill in different ways. For us, this is the way we've decided we'd like to do it.

I hope that is entirely clear. I'm not sure why what I've had to say on the matter has garnered a somewhat rocky reception, but I'm sorry to see it happen. We've been really excited about trying to take this step, and hoping to find support for our choices in this community.

Edit: We would, of course, like to thank everyone who has welcomed us warmly. We look forward to getting to know you all.

Last edited by kazokujin; 04-27-2011 at 04:05 AM.
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Old 04-27-2011, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kazokujin View Post
I'm not sure why what I've had to say on the matter has garnered a somewhat rocky reception, but I'm sorry to see it happen.
Since everybody else on this thread has only been warm and welcoming to you, I guess that the "somewhat rocky reception" refers to my input. Please believe me when I say that that was not my intention. As I've just explained on another thread, I had a long day of frustrating hitch-hiking yesterday (including having to back-track; walk for a few kilometres through the woods bordering the motorway [with a huge rucksack and a smaller one]; and accept hitching along a different route than that I'd wanted because "you can't get there from here"), which has followed a week of sleeping little (most of those days hitch-hiking, at least 3 nights in a tent at motorway service areas...)

So my brain wasn't at its fittest, and if I offended, I apologise.

But a word of advice that has helped me some: there are lots of different characters on this board, some with English as a 2nd or 3rd language. Of the native English speakers, there is a whole spectrum in the way people express what they're trying to say. MOST of us are well-intentioned. Try not to feel attacked unless you're SURE that someone is attacking you.

I myself feel enriched my the variety of other members' opinions and/or viewpoints. I do not mean to judge negatively. However, if I suspect (and I'm ALWAYS well aware that my suspicions might be mistaken) that someone might benefit from advice that I have found useful in my own life, I rarely hesitate in sharing it. No offence meant. Ever.

I repeat: Welcome to the club!
__________________
If I can't dance, I want no part in your Revolution.
- Emma Goldman Anarchist and Polyamorous par excellence
The person who says something is impossible should not interrupt the person who is doing it.
- old Chinese proverb
And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.
~ Anais Nin
I'd rather have a broken heart / Than have a heart of stone.
- from "Boundless Love (A Polyamory Song)" by Jimmy Hollis i Dickson

Last edited by MrFarFromRight; 04-27-2011 at 07:25 AM.
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