Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > General Poly Discussions

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old 12-26-2009, 05:09 AM
DrunkenPorcupine's Avatar
DrunkenPorcupine DrunkenPorcupine is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 175
Default

Quote:
So I guess-from that point, maybe a more specific question would give me an idea of what you are looking for informationally?
One think you didn't mention is kind of at the root of my question, though I suppose I didn't mention it. As it stands NOW, I consider my primary (my wife) and she considers her primary (her BF) to be childfree. I have to admit, I'm a little buzzed right now and I don't feel like doing math, but it seems like your kids came bundled with you; you met BF and you already had kids that he was okay stepping into. I'm asking about the partners who factored in BEFORE kids entered the equation, especially if those were "primary" partners.

Also, I'm being somewhat vague. This is an anonymous internet forum and if I had something to ask I wouldn't pussyfoot around it. The situation I'm in (me and my wife) is different than that of my friend and her BF. The similarities are that we both (couples) identified with childfree until we began exploring poly. Now, she and I (not together) are doing though exercises on how children with people we do NOT consider our primaries would affect... everything. So if I'm intentionally vague, it's because I'm trying to ask for advice or input that I can relate to my situation and relay to her without limiting it to one or the other.
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 12-26-2009, 08:37 AM
LovingRadiance's Avatar
LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Alaska
Posts: 5,170
Default

Child-yes I had my daughter when I was 16. So when GG came into my life she was about 18 months old.

Maca had a child from a previous marriage before we got together-at that time my daughter was 6 and his son was 2.

Interestingly-I never wanted children. (I know-how on earth does one go from not wanting any to having 4 all spaced so far apart AND only the first being an "accident")

You are being vague.. it's hard to follow what you really want to know.


Maybe you are asking-what if your primary isn't the parent becuase they don't want to be a parent?

I'm not sure.

GG just got a vasectomy Tuesday-and there are no children in the world who know him as daddy-there never will be... So in a major way-he does identify as "childless". But he accepts that I have children-and he's been in love with me since he was 17 years old... As he's 33 now.. I don't see it likely that he will change that in this lifetime.

I guess the real question I would pose is do YOU want children, or are you only considering that someone you date might want children and you would possibly be WILLING to father a child.

I got already that the other lady is wondering if she WANTS children as her biological clock is ticking. But hasn't ever wanted them before and it would depend on being with someone else as her primary doesn't...


So for ME-I do NOT want any more children. That is one major reason that GG got fixed-because he respects how very much I do NOT want more children-PERIOD. Since he doesn't feel a NEED for children-he was comfortable ensuring that I don't have that risk-by giving up his ability.

BUT-if he WANTED children... then we'd have negotiating to do. At that point it really depends on personality. Some people are GREAT at being "auntie" in any given situation. But I am not one of those people. If the men I love have a child-that child is going to be mine by default (as far as responsibility goes). It matters not if it were theirs with another woman (like my stepson) the reality is if I love someone and they have a child-in MY mind/heart/soul whatever, that child is my responsibility by default.

Not all people feel that way. If it were possible for them to take a less responsible role and be comfortable-that would be one compromise.

For me-if GG told me he WANTED a child-I wouldn't carry it for him. Because I seriously believe carrying another child would physically kill me for medical reasons.
BUT I WOULD compromise my lack of desire to raise another child-and allow for him to have a child with another woman-and take on that responsibility for loving and carrying for their child as I would my own-no matter what. Because I love HIM that much.

(I only use him as the example, because I already know Maca doesn't want anymore anyway)

So I guess the bottom line to me is-that if you REALLY love someone, you accept that their needs/desires change over time. So if they decided that they needed/wanted to have a child, you love them as a parent, instead of as someone who isn't a parent, because loving someone isn't temporary....

But again-that's just me...
__________________
"Love As Thou Wilt"
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 12-26-2009, 03:27 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
Custodian
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: new england
Posts: 3,221
Default

I'll just answer this because my feelings on this topic are strong and differ substantially from what LR has said.

I do not want kids of my own, and if i were to become involved with someone who already has them, of course I'd hang out with the kids sometimes. However, I do not want to be in a parental / caretaker role in any way shape or form. If I were to become involved with someone who subsequently decided to procreate, not only would it sure as hell not be with me, but i expect that the birth of the new child would impose some distance between myself and my hypothetical paramour, if for no other reason than the "baby NRE", hectic schedule, and lifestyle adjustment(s) that come with it.


But, if my husband suddenly wanted to go have a baby with someone else, it would definitely affect our relationship. When you bring an innocent human being into the world, that new person should become the parents' top priority to the exclusion of all else, and I'm not prepared to make that particular sacrifice in my "primary" relationship. I say "primary" because first of all, we don't have anyone else at the moment, and even if we did, Steve and I have been together for 10 years and have a history, so it would take some time before another person would attain the history and experience in order to be another "primary". Therefore, anyone either of us would have as a boyfriend or girlfriend would be "secondary" by default. I don't mean this in an emotional way, but in a pragmatic way, and for lack of "better" terminology.


If your wife is as CF as I have been led to believe she is from our earlier PM's, I would suggest that you discuss this with her because I wouldn't want to assume anything.
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 12-26-2009, 04:57 PM
MonoVCPHG's Avatar
MonoVCPHG MonoVCPHG is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: In Redpepper's heart
Posts: 4,742
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by YGirl View Post
I say "primary" because first of all, we don't have anyone else at the moment, and even if we did, Steve and I have been together for 10 years and have a history, so it would take some time before another person would attain the history and experience in order to be another "primary". Therefore, anyone either of us would have as a boyfriend or girlfriend would be "secondary" by default. I don't mean this in an emotional way, but in a pragmatic way, and for lack of "better" terminology.


.
Great statement YGirl!
__________________

Playing the Game of Life with Monopoly rules.
Monogamy might just be in my genes

Poly Events All Over
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 12-26-2009, 07:22 PM
redpepper's Avatar
redpepper redpepper is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 7,634
Default

I agree entirely with ygirl that children are the priority always. At least they should be. This means thinking VERY hard about having any. They completely change everything and their is never again room for selfishness. I struggle with this sometimes as I need my alone time and space... sometimes that is not an option. There is no whining and complaining about it when it comes to a child. Parents quickly learn that if their child is not happy, entertained, learning, becoming independent, doing their thing that the parents life becomes a nightmare... kids first means that parents life can be satisfied second. Not only should it be like that but it works better like that. Add another parent to that and there becomes more people to make sure this happens. However its important to make sure the balance between parents doesn't go off. There is fine art to making sure that each parent gets their time away to do their own thing. Not to mention time together as adults... I sometimes forget what that is like with my husband. We kind of become awkward with one another if we are out of our home without our boy sometimes.

I would be very careful about children with anyone. It's a friggin lot of work and a huge commitment. Not to mention incredibly rewarding and satisfying. There is really nothing bigger than the love one has for their child. It far out does any other love I have in my life. My boy is at the top of all my love. To bring a child into the world means that anyone you love would become secondary to them.... it's not a "we" thing at all in terms of "we made this child" it is very much a "I" made this child and I am responsible for him/her. It is entirely a romantic notion to think in terms of "we" are making a child. Sure when they are babies it's that way, but as they get older one forgets the "we" in my opinion. My boy is my child and I share the responsibility to raise him. That responsibility can make or break loving relationships between parents or caregivers.

I have always thought it unnecessary to birth children. Sure it's easier to get pregnant for a lot of people but really you can chose to have kids in your life and make them a priority. There is no need to birth them. I got pregnant because it was easier for me that was a conscious decision.

I was Auntie to a boy for many years who's mum was a single mum. My wife at the time and I looked after him often and included him in our lives. They moved away in the end and we lost touch. We were reacquainted again this year and it turns out we had a huge impact on his life. He is 17 (he moved away at age 5) and about to have his own babies (ahhhhh!!!!too young!!!) but he remembers he did stuff with us that his mum couldn't pull off, such as going to the pool, tenting in our living room in the winter, eating his first pomegranate. He thinks fondly of us and we influenced his life positively at a time when he needed that. Anyone can do that! and more, people should! There are so many kids in the world already that don't have that, I really think that we should be taking care of them first. They need us.... and I don't have any problem saying "need" here. Kids "need" responsible, caring, loving, positive, adults.

Perhaps instead of thinking about biological clocks ticking this friend of yours could involve herself some how in a child's life whether it be a partners or in another way... I suspect that she will be just as fulfilled if not more so because it's possible to leave and go home at the end of it... If she isn't fulfilled, then ya, having her own is a good option provided the situation (for the long haul) and time is right.
__________________
Anyone want to be friends on Facebook?
Send me your name via PM
My blog
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 12-26-2009, 07:30 PM
LovingRadiance's Avatar
LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Alaska
Posts: 5,170
Default

Quote:
When you bring an innocent human being into the world, that new person should become the parents' top priority to the exclusion of all else, and I'm not prepared to make that particular sacrifice in my "primary" relationship.
Ygirl-this is how I feel as well-but the truth is-even if you and I agree on this-SO many people in the world don't. (I know I know-don't ask me why )
That was why I said that part in my post about some people can handle a partner having a child with another and still keep themselves comfortably "spaced" from the child. I certainly couldn't. I wouldn't have your reaction-but I COMPLETELY grasp your point!

Quote:
I say "primary" because first of all, we don't have anyone else at the moment, and even if we did, Steve and I have been together for 10 years and have a history, so it would take some time before another person would attain the history and experience in order to be another "primary". Therefore, anyone either of us would have as a boyfriend or girlfriend would be "secondary" by default. I don't mean this in an emotional way, but in a pragmatic way, and for lack of "better" terminology.
I'm glad to know I'm not hte only one who struggles with this particular terminology coming up lacking!

Quote:
If your wife is as CF as I have been led to believe she is from our earlier PM's, I would suggest that you discuss this with her because I wouldn't want to assume anything.
My only disagreement here is that I don't think it matters HOW CF she is-he still needs to discuss this with her AT LENGTH. But yes, your point here is certainly valid.
I was only expressing my situation, but as I said-not everyone is like me. I definately don't want any more kids. But I can't throw away a 17 year relationship over it if he did. EVEN if he decided in the future that he did-and had a reversal or whatever, as I said-won't be me carrying it-but I would love it and care for it, because it's my nature to love and care for that which those I love myself, love and care for.

ANYWAY! Good that the OP can get a number of opposing views-help make more educated decisions!
__________________
"Love As Thou Wilt"
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 12-26-2009, 07:38 PM
Ceoli Ceoli is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: London, UK
Posts: 900
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
I would be very careful about children with anyone. It's a friggin lot of work and a huge commitment. Not to mention incredibly rewarding and satisfying. There is really nothing bigger than the love one has for their child. It far out does any other love I have in my life. My boy is at the top of all my love. To bring a child into the world means that anyone you love would become secondary to them.... it's not a "we" thing at all in terms of "we made this child" it is very much a "I" made this child and I am responsible for him/her. It is entirely a romantic notion to think in terms of "we" are making a child. Sure when they are babies it's that way, but as they get older one forgets the "we" in my opinion. My boy is my child and I share the responsibility to raise him. That responsibility can make or break loving relationships between parents or caregivers.
This is exactly why I won't have a child until relationships and home have settled into something stable enough to be able to support that responsibility. I do know that I don't want to be single raising a child. I also know that I would like to find a partner to raise a child with. We'll just have to see how that shakes down in the end. I do feel that clock ticking, but have always been open to adopting for many reasons.
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 12-26-2009, 07:50 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
Custodian
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: new england
Posts: 3,221
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingRadiance View Post


My only disagreement here is that I don't think it matters HOW CF she is-he still needs to discuss this with her AT LENGTH.
You are correct. I conveyed two concepts as though they were inter-dependent and of course they are not.

Last edited by NeonKaos; 12-26-2009 at 07:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 12-26-2009, 07:52 PM
LovingRadiance's Avatar
LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Alaska
Posts: 5,170
Default

Quote:
Parents quickly learn that if their child is not happy, entertained, learning, becoming independent, doing their thing that the parents life becomes a nightmare... kids first means that parents life can be satisfied second. Not only should it be like that but it works better like that.
OMG could we make it a RULE that all parents learn this????

Quote:
I would be very careful about children with anyone.
If only more people were! It should require a license like driving does--bad parenting is much more dangerous than a bad driver.

Quote:
To bring a child into the world means that anyone you love would become secondary to them.... it's not a "we" thing at all in terms of "we made this child" it is very much a "I" made this child and I am responsible for him/her. It is entirely a romantic notion to think in terms of "we" are making a child. Sure when they are babies it's that way, but as they get older one forgets the "we" in my opinion. My boy is my child and I share the responsibility to raise him. That responsibility can make or break loving relationships between parents or caregivers.
This is true. I guess for me I just know myself ell enough. When I met Maca, I DID NOT want more children, but he had a son. In hte first days of us becoming friends again (not even dating) his son got pnemonia, I happened to work a schedule that allowed me to watch him while Maca was at work, so I did. Not because I "wanted" to or becuase I loved Maca or because I was trying to "win him" or because of any desire to have a relationship with him. It was because it was simply the right thing to do, no parent should have to choose between working to feed their child or being sure their child is cared for and safe. So I watched him. So for me-it's not just someone I'm dating, it's anyone I have in my life who has a child.

Just today a child I barely know fell out of bed in our basement, her mother is a long time friend of Maca's, but I only just met them both. My auto-pilot instinct was to run, I had her in my arms before anyone else could even react. Because it was just the RIGHT thing to do (for me).

Some people are like this-some are not. It's very important to not only know what kind of person YOU are, but also your lovers. I've had significant others who weren't like that, but they weren't primary caregivers for my child. I now have lovers who are like me, and can be primary caregivers for my children, because it simplifies all of the relationships.

Quote:
I have always thought it unnecessary to birth children. Sure it's easier to get pregnant for a lot of people but really you can chose to have kids in your life and make them a priority. There is no need to birth them. I got pregnant because it was easier for me that was a conscious decision.
My sister is an example-she has borne no children. She's 34 years old and probably never will. But she tells people she has 4 kids (mine) because she loves them and cares for them as her own. They know her as Auntie, or "Mimi" but she cares for them just as a mother.

Quote:
I was Auntie to a boy for many years who's mum was a single mum. My wife at the time and I looked after him often and included him in our lives. They moved away in the end and we lost touch. We were reacquainted again this year and it turns out we had a huge impact on his life. He is 17 (he moved away at age 5) and about to have his own babies (ahhhhh!!!!too young!!!) but he remembers he did stuff with us that his mum couldn't pull off, such as going to the pool, tenting in our living room in the winter, eating his first pomegranate. He thinks fondly of us and we influenced his life positively at a time when he needed that. Anyone can do that! and more, people should! There are so many kids in the world already that don't have that, I really think that we should be taking care of them first. They need us.... and I don't have any problem saying "need" here. Kids "need" responsible, caring, loving, positive, adults.
(bolding by me)

I completely concur. My daughter (18 years and thank god no babies on the way) retains fond, close, loving relationships with my highschool boyfriend who cared for her, as well as MANY of my close friends from highschool. Some of whom I am friends with, but most we grew out of each others lives, but they didn't walk out on HER. It's been amazing watching how secure she is in her life, in her self, in her relationships, because even though her father walked out on her-all of these other men and women stuck by her and showed her it was HIM not her that was lacking.

If more people would put forth the effort to be an auntie or uncle to a child, less children would repeat the mistakes based on insecurity borne of one parent or another failing them!

But...
And this is a huge but, you have to be the kind of person who can do that and not be self-centered. Because even if the child isn't yours, caring for a child even for short bits of times, requires selflessness. Those little buggers require a lot even if they are independent and self-motivated, well behaved and well adjusted!


Quote:
Perhaps instead of thinking about biological clocks ticking this friend of yours could involve herself some how in a child's life whether it be a partners or in another way... I suspect that she will be just as fulfilled if not more so because it's possible to leave and go home at the end of it... If she isn't fulfilled, then ya, having her own is a good option provided the situation (for the long haul) and time is right.
Not only that-but taking time to be there when they do go home, gives you a chance to increase your time with them incrementally-and sort of "test the waters".
When i had my daughter a lot of the girls in school with me went through the "ohhhh I want a baby" b.s. I let my daughter spend the night with them (not all of them, just the ones who were more responsible) or invited them to spend the night with me. That way they got to wake up every few hours to deal with wet diapers, bottles, missing pacifiers and then get up and go to school in the morning.
Interestingly-not ONE of them had a baby before age 30. That "testing" time can be INVALUABLE!

[B]
OP, it wasn't my impression either of you were talking about "jumping in" to the parental waters. I commend you both for talking to people, taking the opportunity to really consider if this is a viable option (for either of you as you did note you aren't considering it together). It's a HUGE life decision and more people who think that they DO want kids without the extra complication of that being a new concept in a life designed without them, should make that much effort!!!![/B]
(bolded and colored in case you get tired of reading my rambles and want to skip to something specific to you!!)
__________________
"Love As Thou Wilt"
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 12-26-2009, 07:56 PM
LovingRadiance's Avatar
LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Alaska
Posts: 5,170
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceoli View Post
This is exactly why I won't have a child until relationships and home have settled into something stable enough to be able to support that responsibility. I do know that I don't want to be single raising a child. I also know that I would like to find a partner to raise a child with. We'll just have to see how that shakes down in the end. I do feel that clock ticking, but have always been open to adopting for many reasons.
You know Ceoli-sometimes I think that people who chose to adopt from the onset are SO much smarter than those of us who went through labor and delivery!!
Having bio children, Godchildren (who I have raised-not that just lived somewhere else) and stepchildren, once I "fell in love" with them, they were my children, didn't matter whose body they bounced out of.
I used to wish I waited, now I count my blessings and tell the kids to wait for that stable content home where the child can be secure without EXTRA effort on one or more parents part!
GREAT choice on your part (opposed to good choice)!
__________________
"Love As Thou Wilt"
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
acceptance, child protection, children, co-habitate, coming out, definitions, explaining poly, families, family, kids, parenting, primary, secondary, social services, telling, triad

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:36 PM.