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  #41  
Old 08-07-2010, 09:16 AM
violet violet is offline
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(Part the third because the forum REALLY fucking hates long posts.)

I think HMA is so done with all this - hell, he's STATED he is - that the only thing he's *WILLING* to see at this point is his own point of view. He's so sure that if everyone would just trust him and act on HIS perceptions that everything will be okay. He claims to be a neutral party, who can ignore his own needs and since he cares about all 3 of us girls; he can come to an accurate conclusion for everyone to go on. (Or, several for us to argue over the validity of.) I'm just not so sure about that. I trust HMA, sure - but I don't feel like my viewpoint is being taken into consideration at all. And truthfully, in his current emotional state - I don't think he's equipped to MAKE a decision and a conclusion like that. He can't be more emotionally stable until the situation is more stable, but the situation can't be more stable until we're ALL stable, I can't personally be stable without a whole lot of talking things out, he can't keep talking about it because it makes him stressed, which makes him emotionally unstable. And the vicious cycle just keeps going and going and going and going ...

I'm more than willing to consider viewpoints other than my own. I'd like to sit with HMA, or HMA and Lana and get some solutions and compromises worked out to bring to her. I'm willing to hear her own solutions and compromises. I may have to write them down and take them elsewhere so I'm not clouded by my negativity towards her; but I'm willing to try! The changes to my life are so painful and so stressful right now that I'm willing to try just about anything. As long as it's a compromise and all options are looked into.

I look at my life, and the people I love right now, and it puts me into one of the darkest places I've ever found myself. The man I love, want to marry and am engaged to, and plan to spend the rest of my life with is the worst emotional wreck I've ever seen him. He just wants to see his girls happy, and he just wants us all to get along. In my opinion, the sooner he acknowledges that that's just not going to happen right now - the better off he'll be, and the more willing to seek alternatives. I'm in the worst place I've ever been. Lana, who had once felt so safe with us, has voiced a possible desire to get a place of HER own because she's sick of feeling tense and out of place in her own home.

Adrian spends all her time tense, scared, and lonely when she's not with HMA. She's struggling with HMA and Lana's relationship. She's made amazing sacrifices to try to make this all work, some met well, others ill-received, and others ignored. We've all tried, and arguably, she's actually tried the hardest. I haven't had the mental capacity to try my best - but now with the situation and how I feel toward her, I'm STILL not able to try my absolute best and dedicate the time and attention to this is deserves. None of us are. She's in a horrible situation, and I acknowledge that. I don't know why she insists on staying in it when there are possibilities out that don't involve forcing a friendship that's one sided and full of resentment. She wants to be with HMA, and doesn't want to move out of the home he and I share with her right now. I get it. Sometimes what's best isn't always what we want. And yes, that goes for me too.

So right now, as he's upstairs putting her to bed and probably fucking her - I'm staying out in the driveway so I don't have to deal with the situation. I feel like I can't go in my own house. All of us dread coming home. All of us dread spending alone time, especially HMA and I because all that happens is drama and horrible, long, stressful conversations. But without working through it, nothing will get better. Ignoring it won't make it better. We can't step back from the damn situation BECAUSE WE ALL FUCKING LIVE TOGETHER. I've considered leaving, but my fears of not having a home to come back to still nag at the back of my head. I also realize I don't trust leaving HMA alone with Lana and Adrian right now. It's convoluted and a nasty cobweb of emotion and insecurity and god knows what else to try to explain why I don't trust him being alone with them. Either one of them.

I'm sitting in my driveway, typing this on my laptop, waiting for him to come back downstairs so he and I can finish talking. Try to get somewhere. Stop feeling stuck. Help me not feel trapped. Help him not feel caught in the middle. Help everyone feel less tense. But we always just seem to argue because we're both stubborn. We both think we know what's best. I'm willing to budge, but I don't know how much. We never seem to get that far in the conversation because we get so caught up in who should talk about who budges and what they budge on in the group vs. alone vs. paired off vs. 3 of us and it's just ... so fucked up.

I think I have the most to lose in this situation. An engagement, the man I plan to spend the rest of my life with. He feels she does. She has "nowhere to go". I am once again left feeling unimportant. He says since he spends so much time hashing all this out with me, he has no idea how I feel unimportant. Hashing shit out isn't making someone important - it's stressful and godawful and just sucky all the way around. It's not spending quality time, it's working on the situation as a whole. But, no one else sees it that way. So all my time with HMA is spent trying to get this figured out - and whatever he does with the other girls is his business. Supposedly. Nevermind that I can hear everything that goes on with Adrian because my room shares a wall with hers. Doesn't make things any easier.

They're talking right now. He feels I had him all day. I haven't spent more than a few hours of real, honest to god, quality time with him in the last couple weeks. So, I'm going to wait. And we'll talk more. And probably argue more. And I'll post here again - and hopefully, sooner or later before one of us goes suicidal or homicidal - we'll get this worked through and we can all remember what being happy feels like.
__________________
"No lover, if he be of good faith, and sincere, will deny he would prefer to see his mistress dead than unfaithful."
-Marquis De Sade

"Variety, multiplicity are the two most powerful vehicles of lust.."
-Marquis De Sade
  #42  
Old 08-07-2010, 11:38 AM
violet violet is offline
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Default Violet's Side of the Story (was "Wiggling Out Of A Tight Spot")

A continuation of this thread:
HMA's Side of the Story

I'll replace this text with a link to my situation and such once I'm done with this post and I can wade through and find it.


Since disclaimers are apparently necessary in my situation for now, I'm going to make a blanket disclaimer and state once again, for the record, that the only thing I can post here is MY thoughts and feelings and perceptions. I can try to accurately represent the thoughts and feelings and positions of others, but I'm not saying I'll get it right.



So, during my last post in the Trapped thread, apparently a lengthy and intense conversation was had by HMA and Adrian. A lot of accusations of lying and manipulation had been flying around - Adrian toward me, and Lana and I toward Adrian. I have dealt with lying problems in the past (a function of a dysfunctional family, unfortunately) that I've worked EXTREMELY hard to get over. And frankly, I'm a god damn stripper. Manipulation and lying is in my job description. I can see where people would worry. But, with all of my efforts to not bring that into my day-to-day life anymore, any accusation of such is met with some pretty serious hurt, offense, and raised hackles.

HMA has decided that Adrian isn't lying or manipulating the situation at all. He says he's willing to approach all of this a just a REALLYOMGFREAKINGSERIOUS misunderstanding, or - he'll have to acknowledge that if that doesn't work, then the only other alternative is that I'M the one lying and manipulating. Naturally, that isn't sitting well with me. He tried to reassure me that what he was going to talk to me about wasn't a test or anything, and that he was approaching it all as the misunderstanding he's hoping it is. I am, understandably in my opinion, freaked right the fuck out by that.

We started talking and were interrupted by Lana needed to be picked up from work. He said he needs to talk to her alone. I'm mistrustful of that for some reason. I haven't worked through why. He said he has no ulterior motive. I ... guess I'm not sure I completely believe him.

Anyway.

Apparently, Adrian did an awful lot of introspection today. This culminated in her seeing why maybe Lana and I have so much trouble understanding and dealing with her. As I understand it, she has an "internal voice" that's very critical of her. She's self-deprecating, I guess you would call it. And sometimes that gets away from her, and she deals with the people around her the same way she deals with herself - very harshly, and very critically. She's come to the conclusion that while she does have a lot of issues with how I've handled the entire situation and situations within the situation, that the person she has the biggest problem with is herself.

HMA says she wants to sit down and have this group discussion because she wants to apologize for how she's handled things up until now, have a chance to explain herself, and beg ("on bended knee if necessary") for a second chance with all of us, but especially me. She also wants to especially apologize to Lana for her behavior during one specific emotional outburst that frankly, I don't remember if I ever really talked about or not. I guess it's probably not important.

I'm going on about 1/4 of a conversation here, but I think I should make sure my thoughts are completely clear. HMA has assured me that when he gets back, we'll talk more - sleep be damned. He tried to reassure me that he loves me. That he really is looking at all of this as a misunderstanding. I'm skeptical. And scared. Really, really, REALLY fucking scared.

I think I'm the most scared because if HMA does come to the conclusion that I'M the liar and manipulator, then all of my efforts have been meaningless. All of my efforts to keep that at my job and eradicate it from day-to-day life have been completely unsuccessful and that I just don't think I can handle that. I think I might have to very seriously consider leaving. Poly can't work if all parties aren't trusted. I didn't lie or manipulate anything. Believe me, I got through a lot of life that way - lying to people and manipulating situations to work out in my favor - that if I was doing so, not only would I know it but because of the love and respect I have for HMA I would ADMIT it. I'd cry about it. I'd apologize. I'd ask for help - help from him and friends. Therapy if necessary. I'd get to the point where I stopped doing it. 100%. I'd quit my job and find another line of work if I had to. I won't handle leaving well. Not at all.

But I guess that's all beside the point. Adrian coming to the conclusion that she needs to apologize and ask for a second chance and a fresh start sort of is right now. I think I need to work through if I can accept that and be willing to listen and consider it. If the situation is past the point of no return and I'm completely unwilling to let that happen. Hell, I'm still skeptical that even THIS isn't a manipulation on her part. HMA is convinced it's not. I don't know her well enough to make an accurate judgment like that.

So what does one do? I acknowledge an irrational hatred toward her that clouds my entire brain when I'm in the same room as her. It's stupid, frankly. But I can't seem to help it. It's just ... there. Looming and threatening me when I hear footsteps coming down the hall. I'm tense all the time. It's ridiculous. I realize I make it sound over-dramatic, but I can't even begin to describe it. It's so fucking weird. And so unlike me.

Maybe it's really just hatred toward the situation and a convenient target. Maybe it's all valid and I honestly hate her to the point of seeing red. Maybe it's insecurity and fear on my part manifesting itself as anger and hatred. Maybe none of it's valid and it's all a seriously fucked up and subconscious manipulation on my part. I don't know, I guess. I can hope that the rest of HMA and I'd conversation will help me to decipher how I feel, and maybe set some of that irrational hatred to rest. Maybe I need to "go back to my roots" and really make sure I KNOW what I want out of a poly relationship. Make sure that HMA and I are solid and in agreement about what WE want out of poly.

Honestly, I've been willing to give her and the entire situation a second chance this entire time. I've merely been asking that she get out of my face so I can sort shit out without her constantly being around. Without having to hear HMA fuck her. Without having to deal with her little OCD behaviors with the dishes that frankly aren't that big a deal but right now are making me want to murder puppies. Without having to work with her. (Yep - just in case that wasn't clear, all three of us girls not only live together - we fucking work together in the same club. *dies* No escape.)

She told HMA that during a conversation she and I had privately, I'd asked her what SHE wanted out of the situation long-term. See, I'm a very "long term, big picture" kind of person. Without knowing some hazy outline of what the future may hold, I can't live in the day-to-day. I'm methodical like that, I guess. Always planning not only one, but 100 steps ahead. She said that when she told me, she saw a look cross my face unlike any other she'd seen. A look of the sheerest anger anyone could contort their face into. I remember very consciously holding back any knee-jerk reaction and asking to come back to it. I had no emotion toward it - I didn't LET myself react to it at all. I remember she told me three things - and I only remember two. She said she'd hope to get married to HMA, and to maybe someday have kids.

Without really sitting and thinking - and I mean REALLY sitting and thinking, I can't accurately say how I feel about that. Some ducks need to get in a row before I can even start to address that one. HMA and I obviously aren't a strong foundation for a poly relationship right now. But, then again, if he and I aren't on the same page about being a "primary" couple - well, we aren't much of a foundation. He's just one guy dating three chicks, one of whom happens to have a ring on her finger.

We've tried hashing out the "primary couple" thing a couple times now - it always seems to devolve into an argument. I definitely think that needs to be settled so I know how to progress. I thought Adrian was coming into this as a unicorn looking to date a couple. Last I heard, that wasn't the case and she's only interested in HMA and maybe open to the idea of a relationship with me. But they'd still be two separate relationships. ...Yeah, that one's definitely got to get worked through.

As far as her coming to this conclusion that she's a large part of the problem, and she wants to get a second chance - I think I'm willing to give that to her. My knee-jerk reaction to it, however, is that HMA have a LOT o' Shit to hash out between the two of us, and that she should still probably look into getting her own place for a while so we can do so without any left over negativity from the situation. So that no one feels forced to get along because we all live together. Nothing to color the situation.

I haven't examined it on a deeper level yet. But I will - and I'll have more conversation with HMA, and I'll post again. I may have done a 180. I may have taken a few steps back. With any luck - it will be a few steps forward.
__________________
"No lover, if he be of good faith, and sincere, will deny he would prefer to see his mistress dead than unfaithful."
-Marquis De Sade

"Variety, multiplicity are the two most powerful vehicles of lust.."
-Marquis De Sade

Last edited by NeonKaos; 08-08-2010 at 04:07 PM. Reason: link formatting
  #43  
Old 08-08-2010, 09:26 AM
HappiestManAlive HappiestManAlive is offline
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Well, now everyone knows where Violet stands, lol.

Surprisingly few of the replies here give much thought t the fact that hers is one of 4 positions here, and that's kinda sad. I'm going to resist the urge to pick apart her posts and argue them piece by piece; but there's a strong desire to do so.

Part of me kinda sorta suspects that just maybe after seeing the damage done when Adrian read the first posts, dumping all that on the boards might finish the job. Especially since any "Adrian positive" breakthroughs seem to take days to get posted, if they are at all, but this stuff just comes and comes... I really hope that's not the case.

In any event and for the record, I did NOT encourage Adrian to come here or create an account; she did that all on her own.

But we're all making progress, and it's good right now, so whatever.
  #44  
Old 08-08-2010, 01:56 PM
violet violet is offline
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Hoo gracious. I'm not letting this thread devolve into a big HMA vs. The World Of Poly and HIS personal mistakes. All 4 of us in this situation have made mistakes, and the big problem here is that while I will vent and ask for help here, I tend to not always post when things are good. That's what this thread is supposed to be for. HMA posts when he doesn't know what to do, asks for input, and rather than coming back and continuing to respond to the advice and help and such, he tends to ignore the poly boards and work very hard on the situation at home. He doesn't take the time to say what he's been doing to work on things - he only tries to be concise with his points.

I made it abundantly clear that this is only my viewpoint. I can see where HMA is feeling attacked and steamrolled over. Based on what I presented, it's possible to see where one point of view is, but it's difficult to really get accurate information when all 4 of us aren't posting up our positions.

I do feel that in many ways, HMA has been a little selfish and hasn't really taken the time to consider what I'm going through. But, he feels differently and he has his reasons. The other two girls have their own thoughts and feelings as well. There's nothing wrong with that. My venting has enabled me to not only feel supported by the people who post publicly, the people who have taken the time to send me PMs, and the people who have gone to extraordinary effort to send me IMs and spend hours talking to me and helping me through the situation.

So please, everyone get your dander the fuck down and let's just move on. Several conclusions were reached about a good way to handle the situation - hell, the way we're planning to go about it is actually MY idea. Lana helped me get to a better place in my mindset, and this allowed me to come to HMA and together, he and I came to a great compromise and are planning to sit down with Adrian, present it to her in a way that she will understand to help her grasp the situation and allow her to give some feedback and input. HMA has said that after that conversation, we will again sit down as a couple as make sure we're alright with what we come up with. Lana may or may not take the role she previously did in our relationship as a friend to both of us and help us to understand one another. But the follow up will be mainly he and I as a couple to ensure that as the "primary" relationship (a term HMA HATES with more passion than I've seen him hate anything, lol) we are alright with it.

I was able to very clearly present to HMA what I need and want out of poly, and how I need to feel secure. He has acknowledged this, we talked about what HE needs too, we took into consideration how Lana and Adrian feel - and now, he and I are on the same page about it. We're both comfortable with the conclusion we reached.

I will post again in just a little bit once I get everything more organized in my head so that it comes out right. But things are moving toward a favorable outcome, finally. An outcome where EVERYONE feels heard and understood and considered. I will still thank everyone for your replies and the time you've all taken to give input on this situation. Again, it's been ABSOLUTELY invaluable to me in reaching my comfort level and helping me to accurately portray what I need and want and actually get it.
__________________
"No lover, if he be of good faith, and sincere, will deny he would prefer to see his mistress dead than unfaithful."
-Marquis De Sade

"Variety, multiplicity are the two most powerful vehicles of lust.."
-Marquis De Sade

Last edited by violet; 08-08-2010 at 02:09 PM.
  #45  
Old 08-08-2010, 02:56 PM
violet violet is offline
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To those of you still posting in this thread, please read my "Wiggling Out of A Tight Spot" blog. A conclusion has been reached that I'll post up soon.

Gwendolyn, thank you for so concisely explaining the definition of a cowgirl. I really appreciate it. I've been trying to explain that, and people who have PM'd me, etc have tried to bring it to my attention unsuccessfully. You've made it very easy for me to explain my fear about Adrian being a "cowgirl". It's really one of my last hangups.

HMA and I came to a great compromise and we're all 4 going to sit and talk. I'll post what the compromise is, the outcome of the conversation, and the followup HMA and I have afterward so everyone can help. Thanks again.
__________________
"No lover, if he be of good faith, and sincere, will deny he would prefer to see his mistress dead than unfaithful."
-Marquis De Sade

"Variety, multiplicity are the two most powerful vehicles of lust.."
-Marquis De Sade
  #46  
Old 08-08-2010, 08:39 PM
HappiestManAlive HappiestManAlive is offline
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I am going to *try* and set aside a TREMENDOUS amount of anger that still exists toward some of the members here and make a post. And no, that anger isn't just at YGirl and aIL2M - whoever moved my general section thread here under a new name can consider themselves part of this now; especially as that thread is in no way "my side of th story", especially not after Violets novella-esque posts.

I am extremely sensitive about the Harem", "thinking with your little head", and "selfish" comments. The implication and even outright statement that I"m manipulating things to my own ends is even more offensive. Like, this guy can't POSSIBLY actually be a decent man who works his ass off for and cares deeply about the women kind enough to share their lives with him. And to that I said - and continue to say - fuck you.

Violet changed my life. She is the first woman I've even known who was far more interested in getting to know me for who I am than for who she could change me in to. That's a damned rare trait in a woman, I'm sorry to say. She helped me find myself again, loved me for who that was, and continues to do so. Somewhere along the line, we discovered that I'd always thought of as an impossible relationship structure was actually her preferred one. It took her over 6 months to convince me this was true and get me to look into, much less date, much less have sex with, other women. But in her own words "you're the kind of guy every woman I know wishes existed and has given up finding, and I would be doing womankind in general a disservice and it would be awfully selfish of me to keep you to myself when I am happy to share you with them". I was not, am not, and never will be worthy of such praise, but I spend each and every day trying to live up to that statement.

Which is why all those comments hurt so badly. Above even that is the fact that my commitment to fair thinking is extreme. So when I see something similar to what has gone here posted elsewhere, my response is generally something to the effect of "sorry to hear that, much love, but I'll reserve judgment until I've heard the other side(s)". Which is precisely what nobody responding to Violets posts has done. So I feel steamrolled by people who supposedly pride themselves on fair thinking and open mindedness, in a place that I too use to seek refuge, advice, and support. The personally directed attacks about me being a manipulator who 's trying to live a harem fantasy - well, I've already voiced my pure and seething reaction to that.

Throughout this process, we talk as a group. After which, Violet wants to talk to just me (regardless of what the other parties think of this as fair). Sometimes for hours - after talks that generally last for hours. And when she FINALLY lets me go AND GOES TO SLEEP - I get to have that conversation again. And then again. Generally, about the time I'm finally done with that, she's awake again - and has had some more thoughts, and want to talk either to me or the group. On top of this, I get very poor sleep when I do get to try because of my pain.

I cannot state clearly enough that this has been the pattern off and on for weeks now, that I have in no way exaggerated it, and that I have had more than 3 consecutive hours of sleep exactly 3 times in the last month. Yes, 3, exactly, those days are precious and burned into my memory. I sometimes get as many as 4, usually less. I get by with a 30 minute to 1 hour nap in the middle of the day in addition to those precious hours. Violet can and I'm sure will (she won't lie bout it) verify this. Almost the only thing I do that doesn't relate directly to dealing with all this is attend doctors and meetings with lawyers. Our social life consists of going out - in pairs or as a group - to another location where the same topic is always the topic. Saying we won't talk about it THIS TIME results in anyone who's able to corner me alone for any period of time talking to ME about it, since that's not with the group and therefor, it would seem, doesn't count.

And for the most part, I don't mind. But for most of that time, it's been Violet having the breakdowns, Violet calling the talks, Violet keeping me awake past the point of sanity, Violet shooting down damn near every idea that anyone puts forth, and Violet changing her mind on a dime and starting it all over.

Oh yeah - and Violet taking advantage of time I spend with other partners to post all over polyamory.com, where everyone takes her side and makes insulting comments about my commitment and motives.

Well, we got past it. Things are moving forward in a positive direction, and we have some breathing room.

This may or may not be the last time I ever post here, seeing as when things are good - you know, when I have time to post here? - all I apparently do is post about our happy romps. Which, by the fucking way, I cannot find one single post where I do any such thing except in passing as it relates to a development or correlates to someone elses post; thanks anyway.

Support place indeed.
  #47  
Old 08-08-2010, 08:45 PM
HappiestManAlive HappiestManAlive is offline
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This thread never was and still isn't "my side of the story". I was asking for input, Violet hijacked it, I responded, and the mods renamed and moved it, because this place has no room for more than one POV in any given situation - and that POV is almost exclusively that of the woman in the group portrayed as being hurt. Good luck with that.
  #48  
Old 08-08-2010, 09:15 PM
HappiestManAlive HappiestManAlive is offline
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...But you sure read Violets, LMAO. Point made.

I forgot to add something for the new lady, who posted about the cowgirls/boys - you're on to something there, and we've already been through the wringer with one of those. The problem is, all 3 of my girls have fit that description at one time or another, as do roughly 2/3 of the single women I have ever known. Just sayin'.
  #49  
Old 08-08-2010, 09:47 PM
HappiestManAlive HappiestManAlive is offline
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YGirl - One of them was already IN life stories and blogs. And the one you moved still isn't "my side", but thanks for naming the thread with your opinion. And I could care less "which thread is whose"; that's an issue YO created with your renaming. The original was an honest "anyone have any ideas" thread in the General section until she hijacked it; true story. SHE recognized this fact and started the new one, interweb courtesy.

Ilove2Men - you didn't insult her and question her motives. I assure you, she would have replied far nastier than I did had you done so. But by all means continue to read only one side of the issue and spout off - it suits you at this point.

I'm done.
  #50  
Old 08-09-2010, 12:30 AM
HappiestManAlive HappiestManAlive is offline
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Add two more names to the list of people willing to make judgments with half assed information, two more reasons to never come back here.

I distinctly replied to both of those, but YGirl has decided that I am the only persn on this forum who houldn't be heard. You see, I am the only person on the entire board that is NOT ALLOWED TO BE OFFENDED.

Post fter post after post after post of people making assumptions, judgments, and outright slandering me based on NOTHING - and I have the AUDACITY to be horribly offended?

I suppose it would be FAR less offensive for me jut to pok through each pf their post histories and the threads they've participated in, come up with all kinds of conjecture about their situation based on what others post about them and a lot of assumptions, and then call them all kinds of horrible things and question their motives?

I'm not going to take the time. Frankly, if each of you had just said THAT to me, I'd have a far easier time dealing with it. But you won't; IT'S INSENSITIVE AND RUDE - LMFAO! RUDE! As opposed to the other shit that is going on here, THAT'S FUCKING RUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You people are amazing, lol.

Last edited by redpepper; 08-12-2010 at 05:43 AM. Reason: merge posts- and take out fuck you's
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