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  #11  
Old 09-30-2009, 06:02 AM
live4themusic live4themusic is offline
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I think she might be willing to give it a try if she feels she could be interested in them for a couple of reasons:

-one is a previous incident early on in our relationship (which of a 5-month relationship I guess means the first month). It's a long story that might be out of place here, but I guess I'll skim over it: A girl who I was friends with (and had had some sexual contact with prior to my relationship with Mary, but who leans toward lesbianism despite generally identifying as bi) was at a pool party I was hosting. Mary and this girl, let's call her Minnie, started making out in the pool, one thing led to another, and we all ended up sleeping in the same bed that night, although the sexual contact was pretty much between myself and Mary, and Minnie and Mary, not between me and Minnie. Minnie actually fell pretty hard for Mary, I told both of them at separate times that I of course had no objections to them dating (and both of them separately told me they would be comfortable with that arrangement as well) and they went on a date. About a week later during a night out, Mary confided in me that Minnie had asked Mary to leave me for her (because she couldn't handle sharing her or something), and that Mary had told Minnie she believed they should just be friends if possible. (this actually ended my friendship with Minnie as far as I was concerned cause that seems like a pretty low move on any friend's part to me)

-the other thing is, I think Mary's fear of a polyamorous arrangement stems mostly from her fear of abandonment or being left. She takes medication for rejection anxiety, and every time the subject comes up she gets extremely hurt because she equates the possibility that I might want to date another woman as meaning I might get tired of her and want to leave her for another woman. I think if she was comfortable with the fact that I would only even consider it if she would also be comfortable with it and could possibly love the new interest, she would be ok with the idea and willing to at least give it a try if the situation came up. This would be the difference for her between opening up to the possibility of sharing (or competing as she views it) for my love, and just bringing more love into the relationship (which she would also be part of)

I think if I met someone else I think would be a good addition to the relationship, if Mary felt differently I would lose interest in that person. If I really believe down the line that Mary is vetoing prospects out of seriously and permanently being wired monogamously, we may be better off dealing with that difference then.

I'm sure this is all very confusing. I've probably spent hundreds of hours trying to figure out myself, Mary, and our relationship, but it definitely helps to have feedback from other people with similar understandings of relationships. This forum is definitely helping me see that even if things don't end up working out between Mary and I, at least there ARE people like me and I'm not completely crazy or hopeless in the world of love because of the way I am. Thank you all!

Last edited by live4themusic; 09-30-2009 at 06:04 AM.
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  #12  
Old 09-30-2009, 06:21 AM
JonnyAce JonnyAce is offline
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The situation you described with Minnie/Mary definitely sheds some light on the situation, and helps me understand why you think your proposed model of polyamory would work for you, and her. As has been said on this forum over, and over there is no right way to be polyamorous, as long as it works for all parties involved.

Also i greatly respect that you feel that if Mary wasn't interested in someone, then you would lose interest. i hope that is the case in reality, as i know it's hard to just shut off interest in someone. It's obvious to me that you've thought long and hard about this, and i applaud you for finding this forum, and opening up to all of us.
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  #13  
Old 09-30-2009, 10:51 PM
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Would you have a problem with the women you want to date being with other men? It sounds like you would if mary did.
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  #14  
Old 10-01-2009, 12:19 AM
Fidelia Fidelia is offline
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Address the competition issue. If Mary understands there is no competition involved, she may feel very different about things.
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  #15  
Old 10-01-2009, 01:14 AM
live4themusic live4themusic is offline
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Well, I think Mary and I may have similar taste in women at least. I also trust her judgement with people, so I think if she had a bad feeling from a woman I was interested in, that would cause me to reconsider.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
Would you have a problem with the women you want to date being with other men? It sounds like you would if mary did.
What would possibly lead you to believe that? Are you making this assumption because I'm (comparatively) young? Because I'm new to this message board and so I obviously must be coming in here looking for a second woman to join our relationship? I didn't specify any kind of condition on the gender of person I would enter into a relationship with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by live4themusic
If a girl I was involved with wanted to bring a guy into a relationship, for example, I would really feel most comfortable if it was a guy I could see myself loving as well (although I am 99% not sexually attracted to men, I would definitely think myself capable of expressing affection and love with them in nonsexual ways -- if it was one of the rare men I would even consider some limited sexual relationship with possible then even better). Similarly, if I was in a relationship, I would feel most comfortable bringing another girl into it if my current partner(s) also felt the same way about them.
That's just the fact of the matter. I WOULD feel uncomfortable if someone I loved also wanted to date another guy (or girl) who I believed to be bad news. I wouldn't object to it, but I wouldn't be dishonest about my feelings on the situation if asked. There are men that I absolutely have the capacity to love and even some who I may feel a mild sexual attraction toward. Any of those would be wholeheartedly embraced by me.

If a girl I loved wanted to date someone I believed to be immature or inconsiderate, well, if they make them happy, that makes me happy, but I would still be uncomfortable and would not also want a relationship with that person.

Regarding salvaging my relationship with Mary, I'm not really interested in just dating. When I'm single, I like casual dating for fun, company, and good sex, but I just don't see myself being seriously involved with 99.99% of women I know. I also don't think in a relationship I would really have any desire to add another person to the relationship, unless it was someone I had gotten to know incidentally over a long period of time and felt deep love for already. So I think if I were to know someone well enough that I thought they would be a good addition to an already existing relationship, I could bring it up with Mary and if they are so compatible with me, they probably will be with her as well.

I also think I need to talk to her about the possibility of trying out swinging later in the relationship if we both want to, but that's a completely unrelated topic, and also not nearly as important to me because sex if fun, but love is what makes the world go round. In the ultimate scheme of things love is the important thing.
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  #16  
Old 10-01-2009, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by live4themusic View Post
What would possibly lead you to believe that? Are you making this assumption because I'm (comparatively) young? Because I'm new to this message board and so I obviously must be coming in here looking for a second woman to join our relationship? I didn't specify any kind of condition on the gender of person I would enter into a relationship with.
um, I was just asking.

You didn't mention how you would feel if she dated a man... so I thought I'd ask.

Does it upset you to think about that and be questioned about that.... or am I reading into your annoyance?

Just that some men seem to be okay with themselves dating other women and their women dating other women, or bringing another woman into their relationship as you had mentioned; even bringing another man into their relationship, but struggle most of all with their woman having another male partner.... so I just wondered if this is so for you, ... out of interest... and because I have three male partners, and no female one ().... its a perspective that I find interesting is all.
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  #17  
Old 10-01-2009, 07:00 AM
live4themusic live4themusic is offline
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I have no problem with you asking. You also said 'it sounds like you would if Mary did'

I was just asking you what led you to that conclusion?

I also thought I had already answered that question contrary to what you interpreted (which is why I was wondering what part of what I said led you to believe that). I would have no problem with her dating another man as long as honesty in the relationship(s) was maintained by all involved, and all of us were able to continue having our expectations from the relationship met. My PREFERRED relationship would be one in which all members of the relationship love each other. Models where there is a person at the center of their lovers, who are not necessarily involved with each other do not appeal to me. At the same time, I haven't felt the slightest twinge of jealousy for someone I loved since shortly after high school when I realized that jealousy for someone you love goes against the principle of loving them (if you love them you want them to be happy). I would have no problem entering into a relationship like that, it just isn't my preferred model because it seems like it would put a lot of pressure on the person in the center to meet all the expectations of their lovers.

I'm not saying it's against my preferences because I don't think it could work; I'm sure it can. It just seems to me like I would have an easier time managing in a relationship where all members are equally involved.
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  #18  
Old 10-01-2009, 07:20 AM
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I guess your reference to me thinking that your age and newness to this forum was of significance made me think that there was a tone to your questions....

I get it now and get where you are at too

I'm not sure what you mean by, "It just seems to me like I would have an easier time managing in a relationship where all members are equally involved" when talking about a "V" relationship....? could you expand please? I am not experiencing a LACK of involvement where my "V" is concerned. Quite the contrary....

I'm not sure I agree with you about jealousy. You were saying that, "jealousy for someone you love goes against the principle of loving them (if you love them you want them to be happy)." I think you are right in a simplistic way, but jealousy indicates fear, self preservation, the preservation of a love relationship, loss of what once was, sadness over the loss of what once was, anger over a lovers seeming lack of love for you etc.... it is very powerful in that it is a mixture of many emotions in one.

I think it's great that you are able to have compersion, but be careful about simplifying the power of jealousy. It can be harnessed to achieve great things in terms of knowing yourself and how strong your relationship really is. It can also indicate that there is something wrong in the relationship or in the relationship of your lover and their other lover.

There is nothing wrong with it or bad about it. It is very human and shows that we too can be humbled by our less desirable emotions....

I think I might start a thread on the topic of jealousy again. It comes up often and my opinion has changed with time about it.
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  #19  
Old 10-01-2009, 07:43 AM
live4themusic live4themusic is offline
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Well maybe I wasn't clear. My preferred relationship doesn't have to involve 3 people but if it did, it would be a triad, NOT a V (I don't like using these labels though, that's why I referred to them the way I did [and I'm not saying I would be unwilling to participate in a V either])

I think you seem to have the same understanding of jealousy as me as far as it being a selfish and self-preserving emotion goes.

I think I have a different take on relationships than most (even polyamorous) people.

The way I look at it, I am ALWAYS involved in an intimate relationship... with myself.

That's the one relationship I'll always have and won't have to worry about going anywhere.

I'm also CRAZY about myself and completely happy with just myself, but not to the extent of narcissism where I treat other people badly or am incapable of loving others. My circle of love can be expanded to fit any number of people.

So I'm never really afraid of being left by anyone. If they are happy with someone else who isn't me and I love them, I am happy for them, not jealous.

Anger is something I might feel in a relationship if I was lied to, not if the other person genuinely grew apart from me.

I'm not saying jealousy doesn't exist as an emotion. I want things other people have sometimes. I might be jealous of a person for their money, their job, their lack of complications in life, their health.

But if I love someone, I don't feel jealous of them any more. I'm just happy for them for the things they have. I may experience desire to spend time with them, and some of this desire may originate from selfish interest because of the good feelings that person makes me experience. In absence of these feelings, I may feel loneliness, or boredom. Jealousy doesn't connote any of these things to me though.

To me jealousy is more than loneliness and boredom, it's a feeling of wanting something you don't have that someone else does. If someone I love is happy spending time with someone who isn't me, my feeling of happiness for them completely overrides any desire for them. I WANT them to experience that happiness. I guess there may be some situations in which I would experience jealousy again (of someone I love), but I haven't encountered one in 5-6 years.
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  #20  
Old 10-01-2009, 03:00 PM
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Please feel free to write about jealousy on the thread I started in general discussions

I'm not so sure that you are all that different than people when it comes to a relationship to yourself... perhaps you have discovered this earlier in your life though... which is awesome! But it isn't different.

I hear what you are saying about jealousy and would agree with you at one point in my life, however, for me, when I fall in love with someone so completely and deeply so as to not be able to go on without their presence in my life I feel differently about jealousy. I used to feel shameful in that as it seemed weak, but now I honour that I can love so fully and with wholeness. Like it is with my whole body and on a soul level. I still have myself and still know that it is me who I need to rely on. I leave myself a path to be able to look after myself first (financially, in terms of having my own friends, place to live etc) but put everything into loving them. There is nothing wrong with loving that way, just not in putting myself in danger. Jealousy shows me that that love is real.
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