New to polyamory and issues

So I have been married 7 years.. my wife had a friend she didn't talk to much online.. that she started talking to more... and more.. and then flirting with and lying to about my boundaries (I am staunchly monogamous.)

One thing led to another, and it led to her telling me that she was non-monogamous and wanted to have the freedom to do what she wanted...

I tried talking to poly friends about it, and tried talking to her about boundaries, but she doens't want them.. says its too controlling.. says she loves me more than anything, and this makes her love me even more... But I am having a really hard time handling it all.

I want her to be who she is... I have a ton of guilt around the fact that I can't even handle her flirting heavily (sex talk etc,) with the other guy... I love him, almost literally, he's an awesome guy, but the thought of sharing my wife with anyone is absolutely against everything I've ever felt..

So what do I do? I've contacted counselors and we have an appointment there, but she won't communicate with me.. she will somewhat, but when I discuss my own issues with all this, she says its not fair to limit her, and that it will destroy her to lose the relationship.

She has a VERY limited view of polyamory... basically it just happened, and that makes it ok, she wouldn't seek anything out etc.. though it does look to me like she did seek it out, even unconsciously.

I have read the jealousy workbook, which basically taught me that my triggers are *anything* at all that's romantic or sexual.. I've been trying like hell to be ok with this... but I feel like a shitty husband because I can't accept her for who she is.

During all this we adopted kids, and now have 4 of them... she told me she wouldn't talk to the guy anymore the night before we adopted... and changed her mind the next day... And says its unfair to talk about the kids, because this is between her and I, and not them... but this affects them at least as much.

Any help would be appreciated... I'm trying really hard but having an extremely difficult time with all of this... I don't see an easy way out at all... She is poly and I am miserable... I force the issue and she is miserable.... or we divorce and both are miserable (our actual relationship is incredible in all other ways.)

This sounds incredibly painful.....I am sorry this is happening in your world!!
In my opinion, your mention of having children is of UTMOST importance. They are, after all, children, and have no say in what their adult counterparts get into. I have two, myself, and have had to eat a slice of humble pie in order to become a better mother before. They truly are the MOST important thing. And, you adopted them. What a gift that is, in and of itself. Commend yourself for that, friend!!
That being said, does any decision you make, regarding this, affect the children? Like, custody-wise? I don't mean to pry....forgive me- it's just where my mind went to first.....

Hi Shaun,

What you're going through sounds awful. It looks like your wife and you are trying to transition from monogamy to polyamory with your wife starting the ball rolling perhaps with an emotional affair to which you are non consenting to? In that respect, it probably sounds similar to my first attempt at polyamory.

From my position of hurt (it's all still quite raw and new to me), I believe that a transition from monogamy to polyamory is most likely to succeed if it's taken slowly, at the rate of the slowest person.

Hope my story helps to show you and your wife one possible future that your relationship might take. I would add that my wife and I thought we had a pretty good relationship before everything went pear shaped.

- Shaya.

Just some food for thought. Some people say they're born poly. I say Hogwash. You may be born non monogamous, but you then make the choice to do ethical non monogamy. From there, you choose the framework of polyamory, with the other common options being swinging or kink. No one is born poly. Poly is an ethical framework that is consciously worked towards and it is HARD!

This article probably describes many things you are going through. If you and your partner can work through the hurt and broken boundaries you mentioned, then this post has links that might help you and your partner transition from mono to poly. If however you find yourself stuck at betrayal (and I have no idea if you do or don't, but if you do), then I would suggest that this is less of a jealousy issue and more of a betrayal issue. If you agree, then websites and information about affair recovery, obsession/limerance, love/sex addiction may be more useful.

Just a thought, and I hope a helpful one.

I will give one more tip. Many people on this forum, including myself may reply in a manner that sounds harsh or critical to your ears. We don't mean to. Sorry if it comes across like that. We are often reacting to your situation by imagining ourselves in it. But we are not you and we don't know your situation other than through the lens of your hurt. The history you share with your partner is far more complex than what you've described in a few short paragraphs. If we critique you or your partner and you don't agree, please call us up on it and explain further. We're not professionals and will sometimes get things wrong.

Good luck
-shaya

There's a lot going on in your life right now, so my advice would be to try and break it down into distinct parts. That way, you don't have the one thoroughly overwhelmed emotion of "holy shit!" being applied to everything.

ShawnCanuck said:

she started talking to more... and more.. and then flirting with and lying to about my boundaries (I am staunchly monogamous.)

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This lying and going behind someones back seems to be how a lot of traditional monogamous couples are thrust into non-monogamy. One person is developing a whole new worldview, discovering things about themselves that they've never explored before... while the other is completely in the dark.

So there is lying, misleading, and manipulating, and then when it's all revealed there is now a huge gap between what the two people once understood about each other. This gap is a shock whenever one person in the relationship didn't even know that the worldviews were being explored.

ShawnCanuck said:

One thing led to another, and it led to her telling me that she was non-monogamous and wanted to have the freedom to do what she wanted... she told me she wouldn't talk to the guy anymore the night before we adopted... and changed her mind the next day...

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People who are in the developmental stages of redefining a value they once held sacrosanct (monogamy, in this case) tend to swish around and try things out. It's kind of how things are done, but it really sucks when someone else (you, in this case) is getting flung around in confusion.

For your part I would say what you need to be doing is figuring out where you are at, what you want out of a romantic association, and taking action to getting it. That action might be to accept having a polyamorous partner, it might be to move out while staying together with your wife, it might be divorcing your wife and going on a walkabout through the American mid-west, who knows. We are adults and we can design our lives around what we want and the reality of our circumstances.

ShawnCanuck said:

And says its unfair to talk about the kids, because this is between her and I, and not them... but this affects them at least as much.

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You guys adopted a bunch of kids right in the middle of this? Am I understanding that correctly?

Personally, I believe that moving to start a poly relationship just after adopting two children is reckless at best and selfish at worst. They need her FULL attention while they acclimate to their new family.

I am very sorry this is happening.

During all this we adopted kids, and now have 4 of them... she told me she wouldn't talk to the guy anymore the night before we adopted... and changed her mind the next day... And says its unfair to talk about the kids, because this is between her and I, and not them... but this affects them at least as much.

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I am stunned.

This is a poor way to behave.

You were screened for the adoption process under one set of circumstances and then it became another. I wish one or both of you had spoken up about the family situation changing before finalizing adoption because it feels "bait and switch." The kids are not entering the type of family unit they were supposed to enter.

I've contacted counselors and we have an appointment there, but she won't communicate with me.. she will somewhat, but when I discuss my own issues with all this, she says its not fair to limit her, and that it will destroy her to lose the relationship.

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I am glad you made counseling appointment. That's the best you can do at this time. Communicate THERE with a third party to help guide the conversation and mediate.

Remember that you having personal preferences for your romantic relationship and personal boundaries for your behavior is not you limiting her. You are allowed to have your preferences and boundaries. Just like she can have hers.

If my husband wants to ski? I don't have to go do it too. I can say "Take the ski trip without me." I'm not limiting him. I just don't want to go.

If my husband wants to swing and I don't like swinging? I don't have to do it too. I can say "I don't want to do that. I also don't want to be in a network where your swinging can affect my sexual health. So I want to disband the marriage and bow out of your network." I'm not limiting him from swinging. I just don't want any for me.

If your wife wants to practice nonmongamy? That's up to her and whatever partners she finds. But you remaining in her network? Well, that choice is NOT up to her. YOUR willingness to do things belongs to you. If you don't want anything non monogamous on your plate? You don't have to have any.

I've been trying like hell to be ok with this... but I feel like a shitty husband because I can't accept her for who she is.

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You can accept her for who she is. You do not have to accept Open marriage with her if you don't want that. That's not you being a shit husband. That's you being an individual person with your own preferences for what you want in your romantic relationships/marriage.

Couples are not a "unit" where they are joined at the hip for everything.

If you want a wife who practices monogamy with you? Accept she's not that wife any more. If what she wants now is opposite to what you want? Rather than beating yourself up over it? Accept you guys grew in different directions and want different things than when you first got married. The situation has changed over time.

I want her to be who she is... I have a ton of guilt around the fact that I can't even handle her flirting heavily (sex talk etc,) with the other guy... I love him, almost literally, he's an awesome guy, but the thought of sharing my wife with anyone is absolutely against everything I've ever felt..

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You can want her to be happy.

You can even like the guy.

But you do not have to feel bad about wanting YOU to be happy too. You don't have to feel bad about wanting your marriage to be monogamous and no "sharing." You are allowed to want what you want.

I don't see an easy way out at all... She is poly and I am miserable... I force the issue and she is miserable.... or we divorce and both are miserable (our actual relationship is incredible in all other ways.)

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It's all going to feel hard. You have to PICK your hard. In your shoes? I would pick disbanding.

Could tell her in counseling you do not agree to practice polyamory with her. You did not sign up to "share" in this marriage. Those were not the original agreements.

If she wishes to be free to move on to practice polyamory with this awesome guy? You wish them both well. But that's a road you yourself cannot go down. You want to get off the bus. You want to disband the marriage and draw up co-parenting agreements. After that she can drive the bus wherever she wants to drive it.

The marriage could disband in order for the individual people to move on in healthy ways. Rather than twist the individual people into unhealthy pretzels just to keep the marriage going.

Be it a separation or straight to divorce -- sort that out with the counselor.
If you both become willing to disband?

• Then she is free TO pursue poly things she wants. (+)
  
• You are free FROM any poly things that you do not want. (+)
  
• You both mourn the ending of the marriage. (-)
  
• You continue to coparent the children and try to be good exes/friends. You keep enjoying the parts of the relatonship that DO work and bring you joy. (+)
  

I can imagine the idea of divorcing over this is painful. I do not envy you that.

But I do not think that this is one of those "win-lose" choices. It's "this hurts and that hurts, so which hurts the least in the long run?" I think disbanding hurts the least.

Because you have 4 adopted children to care for? They need to be the priority. You need to restore stability soon for their sake.

They need you to be healthy again. You cannot be lingering in this unhappy state. So I encourage you to sort the stuff that needs sorting so you can move on to the healing place.

Galagirl

powerpuffgrl1969 said:

Personally, I believe that moving to start a poly relationship just after adopting two children is reckless at best and selfish at worst. They need her FULL attention while they acclimate to their new family.

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I have to agree - it's a difficult situation to understand.

Personally I think there is a little bit of an overreaction about the new kids being present and the move to non-monogamy. In my opinion, the move to non-monogamy is just one expression of the issues being dealt with by this couple.

Primary among these issues is that the wife seems to have blown off whatever agreements were made at the beginning of the association (I'm guessing they were all of the traditional ones) and doesn't seem to care that she was deceptive and harsh in the process. Not only that, but it is clear that she is still in a moment of serious self-discovery and has no clear picture on what that even means.

This couple could shut the doors to non-monogamy immediately and my guess is that the impact on these kids wouldn't be lessened in the slightest. - He's not going to trust her, and she's going to be bubbling with resentment. That doesn't really seem like a great option.

In my opinion, the approach should be to be kind to these kids, provide their basic needs, and live your lives.

Your wife must be going through a really diffocult time as well now. You both clearly are. Dear wife of Shawn, would you consider posting a summary of your feelings and thoughts here please. If you and your husband have as your primary aim to transition to polyamory smoothly and successfully, i feel that the experienced polyamorists on this board can be on yours and your husband's side to help with this difficult process.

I feel the advice we are giving Shawn is addressing only half the issues and without a consideration of the other half, we may actually be alienating you and our one-sided advice may actually be counterproductive for you and Shawn in the long run.

Marcus said:

In my opinion, the approach should be to be kind to these kids, provide their basic needs, and live your lives.

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You might want to learn more about what an adopted child experiences. It's not like a teenager who sets out for summer camp, it's at best a deeply traumatic rupture of a magnitude that can't be comprehended by most people. This woman clearly has no concept of what an adopted child needs in order to begin to feel safe in the world. Even in the best of circumstances, adoption is a life long psychological earthquake for the adoptee. That this mother is even considering changing to polyamory (and with such a reluctant spouse) at this time tells me that she has absolutely no idea the enormity of what she is taking on in these children.

I'm an adult adoptee, grew up in a "normal" home, searched for and found a wonderful birth mother and to this day am still feeling the repercussions of my traumatic birth circumstance - as well as the repeated trauma of a culture in which adoption is seen as "no big deal - the kids seem just fine." Adoption is serious business and adopted kids are wonderful people just like everyone else, but the effects of being an adoptee are massive, deep and life long. This mother needs a great deal of education about her children because she clearly has no idea that the last thing she should be introducing into this family at this time is polyamory with a reluctant spouse.

Hi ShawnCanuck,

You indicated that you and your wife get along great except this one little area ... except, it's not a little area is it? It's a huge, gargantuan area. It's likely to spell the end of your marriage no matter what. Just a matter of time. I won't tell you to get divorced right now, after all you have a pending counseling session, but I do suggest you take this poly issue as serious as it is. One of you is going to have to bend, basically, if your marriage is going to continue. You're going to have to become okay with polyamory -- and I don't know how you'd do that -- or she's going to have to give up the idea of polyamory -- and it doesn't sound like she can do that.

It is evident from your post that you are in great pain. I'm sorry this is happening to you.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.

FallenAngelina said:

You might want to learn more about what an adopted child experiences.

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I don't know anything about the plight of adopted kids, I'm sure it's rough. No, I'm not going to research into this topic, it's of no interest to me, nor is it central to the issue at hand, in my opinion.

FallenAngelina said:

That this mother is even considering changing to polyamory (and with such a reluctant spouse) at this time tells me that she has absolutely no idea the enormity of what she is taking on in these children.

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But it's done, that was my point. This cucumber is a pickle and everyone can pretend it's a cucumber and white knuckle through for the sake of being Mr and Ms Greatparent... but that's a bunch of bullshit. In my opinion, children (whatever their birth status) will be better off with parents who aren't living a lie, and instead just treat them with kindness, provide for their basic needs, and get on with living their lives.

Marcus said:

There's a lot going on in your life right now, so my advice would be to try and break it down into distinct parts. That way, you don't have the one thoroughly overwhelmed emotion of "holy shit!" being applied to everything.



This lying and going behind someones back seems to be how a lot of traditional monogamous couples are thrust into non-monogamy. One person is developing a whole new worldview, discovering things about themselves that they've never explored before... while the other is completely in the dark.

So there is lying, misleading, and manipulating, and then when it's all revealed there is now a huge gap between what the two people once understood about each other. This gap is a shock whenever one person in the relationship didn't even know that the worldviews were being explored.



People who are in the developmental stages of redefining a value they once held sacrosanct (monogamy, in this case) tend to swish around and try things out. It's kind of how things are done, but it really sucks when someone else (you, in this case) is getting flung around in confusion.

For your part I would say what you need to be doing is figuring out where you are at, what you want out of a romantic association, and taking action to getting it. That action might be to accept having a polyamorous partner, it might be to move out while staying together with your wife, it might be divorcing your wife and going on a walkabout through the American mid-west, who knows. We are adults and we can design our lives around what we want and the reality of our circumstances.



You guys adopted a bunch of kids right in the middle of this? Am I understanding that correctly?

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Some very good observations here.

Sorry you are in this position but your wife is feeding you a load of crap. She is about as polyamorous as the man in the moon. She just "discovered" this, has totally jumped the gun on you, and basically is telling you she could care less about what you think and you need to just suck it up and let her do what she wants.

my question is why if you are totally monogamous are YOU going to a therapist to try to convince yourself to "bend" to her wishes???? Why isn't she going to a therapist to discover why she has made the rules as she goes along here???

I am saying this because I kind of did the same type thing and it appears it will cost me my marriage. If you are not on board with this, the let her go. She can't be too mmuch of a prize if she lets her kids go to live the single life.

FallenAngelina said:

You might want to learn more about what an adopted child experiences. It's not like a teenager who sets out for summer camp, it's at best a deeply traumatic rupture of a magnitude that can't be comprehended by most people. This woman clearly has no concept of what an adopted child needs in order to begin to feel safe in the world. Even in the best of circumstances, adoption is a life long psychological earthquake for the adoptee. That this mother is even considering changing to polyamory (and with such a reluctant spouse) at this time tells me that she has absolutely no idea the enormity of what she is taking on in these children.

I'm an adult adoptee, grew up in a "normal" home, searched for and found a wonderful birth mother and to this day am still feeling the repercussions of my traumatic birth circumstance - as well as the repeated trauma of a culture in which adoption is seen as "no big deal - the kids seem just fine." Adoption is serious business and adopted kids are wonderful people just like everyone else, but the effects of being an adoptee are massive, deep and life long. This mother needs a great deal of education about her children because she clearly has no idea that the last thing she should be introducing into this family at this time is polyamory with a reluctant spouse.

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This. I would give anything to have my kids in my arms right now. I know their pain every day, and I am lucky to be in their life, and they aren't adopted but..fostered..and also now living with a dad they never knew (no memories of) so it was very similar, and deeply traumatic. For us all. It was so heartbreaking. The scars my kids carry..I would do anything to rid them of them.

Wow. With so many similarities, I almost thought I was reading one of my old posts. Something you said in particular stood out for me... you said that she says it's not fair to limit her... my reply would have been that you're not limiting her, but rather yourself. And you don't need to be apologetic, or feel guilty about understanding who YOU are.

starlight1 said:

This. I would give anything to have my kids in my arms right now. I know their pain every day, and I am lucky to be in their life, and they aren't adopted but..fostered..and also now living with a dad they never knew (no memories of) so it was very similar, and deeply traumatic. For us all. It was so heartbreaking. The scars my kids carry..I would do anything to rid them of them.

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Obviously not the subject of this forum, but in the public service I just want to impress upon readers that babies are people and can feel all of this, just as older adopted kids and birth parents do.

Going through the adoption process is intense for all involved. It is not like having some of the neighborhood kids over for a BBQ, a casual addition to the household, as has been alluded to in this discussion. Adopted babies/children are traumatized (as are birth parents) beyond anyone's imagining and adopted kids/babies need parents who are present. They don't need to be fussed and worried over, they don't need parents who live only to serve them, but they do need parents who are aware and educated about their emotional needs and present. I do not see how responsible adoption and poly discussions can possibly be happening simultaneously in the same family. Poly and adoption of course can work beautifully together when one or the other is a mature component of the family.

CTF said:

Wow. With so many similarities, I almost thought I was reading one of my old posts. Something you said in particular stood out for me... you said that she says it's not fair to limit her... my reply would have been that you're not limiting her, but rather yourself. And you don't need to be apologetic, or feel guilty about understanding who YOU are.

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I'm in agreement with CTF. I would say, more strongly, "it's not fair, you're stopping all my fun" is the attitude of a child.

As adults we take on responsibilities and sometimes, as adults, we must choose to limit ourselves. That she doesn't, and objects to you having any emotion whatsoever about her behavior, is simply wrong.

WhatHappened said:

I'm in agreement with CTF. I would say, more strongly, "it's not fair, you're stopping all my fun" is the attitude of a child.

As adults we take on responsibilities and sometimes, as adults, we must choose to limit ourselves. That she doesn't, and objects to you having any emotion whatsoever about her behavior, is simply wrong.

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You're absolutely right. Boundaries exist whether we like it or not. To act as though relationships shouldn't have boundaries is not only naive, but incredibly selfish, especially when talking about actions that directly affect someone else.

Apparently, she didn't get the memo that freedom comes with responsibility. And NO ONE is required to accept the choices & actions of another.

SW1231 said:

That being said, does any decision you make, regarding this, affect the children? Like, custody-wise? I don't mean to pry....forgive me- it's just where my mind went to first.....

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Custody wise, no, unless there is a reason for a custody battle (ie: divorce etc)

Hopefully it doesn't come to that..