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MockingJay

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It has been a while since I posted my intro, so here is an update and recap.

It has been a month or so since having the "poly discussion" with my wife after she met someone whom she had strong feelings towards.

Lately I am still feeling consumed by many emotions surrounding this, and have even had some doubts about whether I can be truly happy long term with our mono/poly arrangement. I think I can, and I desperately want to, I just don't know for sure.

I will be patient and hoping that it gets easier. For the moment, she is not seeing anyone else and has seemed to put all of this out of her mind. For me it is still 100% at the forefront. The difficulty we've had is that, it is very draining for my wife to share her true feelings, especially when I know she is afraid of hurting me. This made the first week or two after the discovery very hard on both of us, it was an overload of discussion and emotion. So we've tried to back away from it and give it some time to settle in.

I now find myself always wondering what she is thinking, who she is talking to, etc. But I won't ask because I don't want to invade privacy or add stress where none is needed. I can't understand why I am feeling this way, when I don't believe that it is insecurity or even jealousy, I just hate not knowing. I realized that I have felt this way in past relationships when I have been cheated on. But with her I have complete trust and security knowing that she does not want to leave, so what am I worried about? Being wired for monogamy, is it always going to feel like I'm being cheated on?

All of this has given me a permanent knot in my stomach, I have trouble concentrating at work, and my mind is always adrift. I don't enjoy feeling like this, and it is making me think that if it doesn't get better, maybe this type of relationship is not right for me. That thought scares the hell out of me. Even though she has told me she would be monogamous with me if that is what I need, I feel there is no going back. I won't be happy knowing she's not happy.

This is where I'm at, I guess just kind of venting and getting it out there since I have no one else to talk to. If anyone has any advice or has been in a similar situation I would be glad to hear about it.

Thanks,
 
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I am sorry you struggle.

FWIW, these phrases popped up at me from your post.

But with her I have complete trust and security knowing that she does not want to leave, so what am I worried about? Being wired for monogamy, is it always going to feel like I'm being cheated on?
Click to expand...

Do you mean you prefer monogamy, and if you are doing this mono/poly thing, you aren't practicing the relationship shape you actually prefer, so feel grumpy/disgruntled about it?

Because your wife isn't cheating.

But you might be cheating yourself if you agree to be doing something you don't really want to be doing.


All of this has given me a permanent knot in my stomach, I have trouble concentrating at work, and my mind is always adrift. I don't enjoy feeling like this, and it is making me think that if it doesn't get better, maybe this type of relationship is not right for me. That thought scares the hell out of me, making the knot even worse. Even though she has told me she would be monogamous with me if that is what I need, I feel there is no going back. I won't be happy knowing she's not happy.
Click to expand...

You don't think she'd be happy to now be able to share her poly thoughts and feelings with you because you have Opened enough for her to have that? And she practices monogamy with you so it is Closed enough for you so you can have the relationship shape you prefer?

Could you ask her if "Open enough for you / Closed enough for me" could work here?

Rather than be thinking things that upset you? Sometimes being direct, taking action, and seeking actual answer is better than spinning "what if this?" and "What if that?" clouds in your head.

Galagirl
 
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GalaGirl,

Thank you for your insights.

You are absolutely right, I might be cheating myself if I don't really want this. At first I thought I did want it, but now I am not so sure. I keep having ups and downs about it. I know it is going to be a challenge for me and it will hurt me.

What has me down right now is the realization that if I can't be okay with it, my marriage is essentially over. She has already made every compromise to make it as closed for me as it can be. I know that to make it any more closed is basically asking for her to be monogamous and she will not be happy.

If I can't be okay with it, the damage is already done and I won't be able to get over that. But what choice do I have, to break it off and be alone, while co-parenting with her and obsessing from afar over every person she gives affection to? I couldn't handle that.

I should be happy to still have her affection, even if it is in addition to others. The last thing I want to do is lose that.

Just having a day filled with bad thoughts.
 
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Oh dear. I am so sorry to hear this. Your emotion is spilling onto the computer, this is really difficult for you. I am in no position of authority on this topic, but I can tell you for sure, that TALKING is just about the best thing you can do. Communicate, and communicate some more. There is a window of what is appropriate info to receive, FOR YOU, and that should be honored. Enough info so you feel secure, and not so much that it sends you into a tailspin.
You have a child with this person, and that, alone, makes your relationship with her, one of a kind. Celebrate that, for sure!!!
But, really think about what you want, also. This is the hard part. Being honest with oneself about what sits true in your heart. Not easy, but commendable, no question. Keep us posted!!
 
Hi MockingJay,

It sounds like you need more info from your wife than you are currently getting. Is she seeing anyone, who is she seeing, where is that headed. Rather than a DADT situation where you don't ask and she doesn't tell. Your imagination may be getting carried away in the face of a lack of information. Having said that, you seem to be experiencing some fear, in which case I would ask, what specifically scares you? What's the worst thing that could happen, and what would you do if it did happen? Confronting that hypothetical may help take some of the sting out of the fear.

It doesn't sound like now is the time to break up with her, rather you need to find some way of coping with what's already going on, and hopefully get used to it. Hopefully the feedback you're getting on this thread is helpful so far.

Sincerely,
Kevin T.
 
Even though she has told me she would be monogamous with me if that is what I need
Click to expand...

She says she'd be willing. I assume she wouldn't offer something that makes her miserable. How about you believe her at her Word?

Let HER be responsible for her happiness. Because if you are trying to be responsible for your happiness? That's your job. If you are also trying to be responsible for her happiness? That's her job, and you are stepping on her toes as well as making yourself upset.

Something has to give. Even though this "sorting things out" process is challenging right now I suggest you hold up your end the stick and no more. And expect her to hold up her end of the stick and no more.

Then lean INTO it rather than shying away from it. You don't have to do marathon talking sessions. That's exhausting. But set an hour each week to talk. And when the hour is up, write it down so you know where to pick up next week.

In between do the normal stuff you guys do -- eat pizza, see a movie, do the chores. So you can FEEL normal rather than so "up and down."

If you find yourself drifting off and churning up stressy things in your mind, remind yourself there is a time for discussing that coming up. The once a week appointment.

Eat at eating time. Sleep at sleeping time. Pizza at pizza time. And discuss at discussion time. At most, make a little note to save the thought for discussion time. Then wait til discussion time to sort it out.

Maybe things like that help you feel calmer during the sorting out process?

I know that to make it any more closed is basically asking for her to be monogamous and she will not be happy.
Click to expand...

You seem fearful.

I think if what you need to make you happier is go back to monogamy? Or know that is possible? Ask for what you need to know.

Something like "Look, I'm willing to try this poly thing for X months to see if it is something we can do. We still have a lot to talk about before Opening.

But after trying this out for X months, how will we assess and what would be next steps?

If Opening is successful, we go with what?
If it is not successful, we go back to monogamy or break up?"

Galagirl
 
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Wow, everyone, thank you so much for this wealth of support and advice. I did not expect such a response. I need some time to process things and think over what it is that I need. Many of the questions you have asked me, I still have not answered for myself, and I definitely have some soul searching to do.

I have made habit of always putting my family's needs before my own, doing whatever it takes to make them happy. In this situation, I will have to learn to approach it differently because doing that might tear me apart.

I know we need to talk about it. At first I really was positive and had some great tools I used as reassurance which got me through. I think that time was easier because we did talk so much. But we went from exhaustive discussion, to no discussion at all, and I think that has left me feeling lost.

I know she offered to be monogamous, but in doing so I could see the pain it causes her. This pain she has dealt with for 10 years. She is offering this as a sacrifice to protect my feelings and ensure our family stays together. So for me that is not an option, at least not right away. I can surely put in my best effort and handle my share of pain to allow her fulfillment. And we'll see where it goes from there.

Thanks again for all of your help, it is great to have a place to go to for support like this. It has helped me tremendously. I honestly just get too trapped within my own thoughts sometimes and I need an outlet.
 
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Will you ALWAYS feel as though you're being cheated on? No, probably not. You'll get used to it, you'll adapt, and (given a lack of melodrama) you'll likely be stronger & smarter for it.

I feel it's truer to say you sound as though nonmonogamy is not something you are personally comfortable with at this moment.

And, speaking for myself, I actually get more reluctant when a change (of anything: habits, schedule, worldview) -- is presented to me as a pressing decision, even when I'm the only one putting pressure on me. :eek:

Your situation sounds a little like your s/o is expecting you to make a huge life change OR place yourself in a position to be guilt-tripped longterm (maybe just by yourself).

I do not accept that your wife has become magically polyamorous. Rather, it seems (IMNSHO) that she's simply too honest to go chasing off after a secret affair & too intelligent to (monogamistically) dump you in favor of some unknown quantity. Presented with opportunity, she's applied the "poly" label post hoc to rationalize what she already wanted to do.

A thought-exercise might help you both. Let's look ahead years or months. Your wife has a steady relationship with someone else & with you. Meantime, you have come to terms with nonmonogamy. Randomly, you meet someone attractive, who is accepting of nonmonogamy. Your s/o is very supportive of you going ahead, & things work out well for you.

Then your wife breaks up with her other, leaving her with a lot of time on her hands with nobody to make her the center of attention. After a couple months of this, she apologizes for dragging you out of your comfort zone, forcing you into "being poly," & starts to hint that the two of you should go back to monogamy. Having rewired your own brain, you're a little reluctant to try reversing it all, particularly as (1) you've got another person emotionally invested in you AND (2) it makes you very happy.

Is there any faint chance that would happen? If so, how would YOU respond? How would SHE react to your response?

It's not at all farfetched: I've watched this play out a few times. But at very least, it will encourage you (both) to think & discuss better.
 
Hi Mockingjay,

I remember your first thread. Congratulations to you for even considering transitioning to polyamory with your wife given you started with monogamous vows. I pointed out to you that not many men in this world would be able to give their wife a new love. I think it is the most beautiful present a man can give his wife. What you're doing is hard. Real hard, but if you can give it to your wife, what a loving gift. And if you can't, then welcome to the majority of the world who practices monogamy.

Your post brings back memories of my own as I struggled to incorporate someone my wife developed the hots for whilst being monogamous with me and whom I tried to incorporate into a polyamorous relationship. In our case, because her relationship with this man started as an emotional affair in the context of monogamous vows, it proved difficult to incorporate into polyamory. "Difficult" became impossible due to the timeframe in which we gave ourselves to transition from monogamy to polyamory. My number one advise is go slow.

Feeling like you are being flooded with emotions every day and being unable to function describes what I was going through previously. The link I provided shows the destructive spiral I travelled as I invested more energy and time into polyamory than I should have. You paint a brighter description of your wife than I did of mine. If she's giving you space and time, then don't feel bad - use the space and time. Tell her you need more time. From your description of her, I feel that she is unlikely to complain and if she does, maybe you can show her how destructive I became when pressured to deliver polyamory to my wife in a short timeframe.

Al99 successfully transitioned from an affair to polyamory but he had years to think of polyamory.

In the end, it might be that you can give your wife the happiness she wants, but it may not be with this particular man and it may not happen this year or next year. Feel free to peruse the following resources. Slow down. A transition to polyamory happens at the pace of the slowest person and remember that you have no obligation to agree to polyamory at all.

Good luck and I hope your sleep and mental state improve.
 
Ravenscroft,

What you have described is precisely what we are both struggling with at the moment. Is it really polyamory, or was it just this one person that sparked such intense feelings? And what's the difference?

If being polyamorous simply means living the poly lifestyle, then anyone could decide to be polyamorous or not by how they manage their love life. How do you know if that is really the way your partner wants to live or if it is just a way to cope with falling for someone else when they are fundamentally monogamous?

I actually think over time my wife has started wondering this, too. Currently the person who started all of this is out of the picture, but he still keeps coming up in conversations and I feel like her thoughts are sometimes consumed by him. She usually ends up crying when he is brought up.

I really am not sure what to do at this point. Every time we talk about polyamory it goes well until one of us mentions him, then it gets weird and I feel like I'm not getting to the bottom of things. Either she is trying to protect my feelings and preserve our relationship, or I am just being paranoid and probably getting on her nerves.

For the most part we've gone back to living our lives normally, aside from these occasional discussions. We have both been "looking" for other friends, hers with the potential to turn into more, but it has not amounted to anything.
 
MockingJay said:
How do you know if that is really the way your partner wants to live or if it is just a way to cope with falling for someone else when they are fundamentally monogamous?
Click to expand...

We see this question every day on this forum and it's a very good one. There is no litmus test for the answer, only the unfolding of the situation. "Poly" can be a beautifully expansive choice for a committed couple or "poly" can be a temporary respite for partners who are transitioning from one monogamous relationship to another.
 
MockingJay, the op, wrote:
What you have described is precisely what we are both struggling with at the moment. Is it really polyamory, or was it just this one person that sparked such intense feelings? And what's the difference?

If being polyamorous simply means living the poly lifestyle, then anyone could decide to be polyamorous or not by how they manage their love life. How do you know if that is really the way your partner wants to live or if it is just a way to cope with falling for someone else when they are fundamentally monogamous?
Click to expand...

And FallenAngelina replied:
We see this question every day on this forum and it's a very good one. There is no litmus test for the answer, only the unfolding of the situation.
Click to expand...

And, in fact, this was my very post-question to the group - even before my intro post. Was it poly? My wife was not interested in "poly per se" (and still is not - although many conversations with me and our friend who is openly poly have certainly helped her cope with the circumstance) - she just wanted to "open up' our marriage so she could explore her resurgent feelings for an old college bf (and their romance is ongoing - for a few months now). So is it poly? By definition - yes - multiple loving partners in a committed relationship with the knowledge and consent of all involved.

The consensus of responses was that it was indeed, poly. Here is a link to that thread: http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85283.

But - if Becky and Ben break up, do we remain poly? Only if we want to. Poly is a relationship choice - and one can move back and forth between poly and mono (and other relationship choices) as they see fit. -- And I do understand that some believe that they are hard wired for poly - this may very well be true - in which case, perhaps those individuals would remain poly at heart even if living in a mono relationship - but, for others, it is unquestionably a relationship style choice.

Al
 
Al99 said:
But - if Becky and Ben break up, do we remain poly? Only if we want to. Poly is a relationship choice - and one can move back and forth between poly and mono (and other relationship choices) as they see fit. -- And I do understand that some believe that they are hard wired for poly - this may very well be true - in which case, perhaps those individuals would remain poly at heart even if living in a mono relationship - but, for others, it is unquestionably a relationship style choice.

Al
Click to expand...

I think this is all that we are experiencing. There was another person, but my wife was not willing to give up our marriage and family to pursue them. At that point "poly" made sense, and it was the only logical way we could both cope with the situation while maintaining some form of honesty and trust. The other option would have surely done unrepairable damage to our relationship.

I feel as if we will move on with a pretty standard monogamous relationship, until perhaps someday another person comes along. That could be another 10 years from now, or maybe never. It does not seem that she is interested in leading an actively poly lifestyle by pursuing other relationships. One thing that was a yellow flag for me is that, I do not believe she would ever be okay with me dating another woman. Even talking to them just as friends has proven to be a challenge. I am also still not sure how we would handle it if she did fall in love, or if she's really capable of loving more than one person at a time.

For now, understanding a little about the poly lifestyle and studying it has definitely been an eye opener. It would certainly be easier if we could all fit nicely into one category all the time, but it is clearly more complicated than that. How that fits in with my own situation and how I feel about all that's happened, I am still not entirely sure. It's going to take a lot of time to process.

Thanks for all of the great input and advice I've received so far.
 
There's really no "poly lifestyle."

True enough that anyone can claim to polyamory, but it's truer to say they aspire to polyamory, particularly early on.

You become poly by living poly. That means self-understanding & self-honesty, maybe brutally so. That means communicating fully & openly & honestly & constantly. That means processing feelings, & solving problems individually & mutually. That means setting aside baggage from monogamy. That means developing time-management skills that aren't high-priority in a simple closed dyad but are vital for anything more complex.

All that stuff requires time, & practice, & experience.
 
Hi Mockingjay,

Both you and Al have described your wives as being unable to separate the concept of polyamory from just wanting to have a new relationship with someone else. I would like to add that this is what my wife and I also went through. In all 3 of our cases, we were previously monogamous, and then our wives had an emotional affair (maybe yours didn't - I'm still not sure), and we're struggling to cope with transitioning from that to polyamory with the affair partner.

I often asked my wife what her reason for wanting to do polyamory was. She said it was twofold. One was to be able to continue her current relationship with me since she felt it was doomed to fail as she kept getting feelings for other men whilst under monogamous vows. The second was to be able to explore her feelings with this new man. She was unable to say which was more important to her and in her own words, that the two were actually linked so inextricably in her mind that they were the same issue.

As our experiment into polyamory started to look like it was going to fail and that she was going to lose one or both of her goals, her NRE grew in size and desperation, manifesting itself in destructive actions that negatively impacted our relationship. I used the veto, but managed to do so in a sensitive enough manner that she felt she had a say in the veto (she agreed with the veto, if that makes sense).

We are still dealing with the fallout. We have large arguments every 3 or 4 weeks but are actually really good in between. Our relationship and sex life is better now than it has been in 10 years and it's because we have developped an improved plan for our future, have a better hope for our future, better communication strategies and an improved mutual respect for each other.

I hope you found this helpful.
-Shaya.
 
I've never been in your position, but I imagine it must be a huge shock and take a lot of adjustment to consider opening up your monogamous marriage, especially if it's never what you wanted. This is a critical time for you: be gentle with yourself right now.

These kinds of transitions usually take a long time to become clear. I'm fairly impatient, and I've had to work hard at letting times like this strengthen my intimacies instead of pushing for decisions neither of us was ready to make.

For me, worrying about whether I needed to end a relationship (for the good of myself or my partner) was never as useful as committing myself to understanding everything I could about my own desires and needs and my partner's desires and needs. I've worked out a lot with my current partner, including things I once thought would be dealbreakers. It turns out things I thought would make me too insecure or scared weren't that scary when our bond felt really strong. But we only reached this stage by risking change, risking shaking up all our definitions and expectations. It was scary and hard, and ultimately deeply fulfilling.

If your goal is to be in a monogamous marriage with someone, this might not be the best advice for you. No shame if that's what you really need. If, on reflection, your goal is to build lifelong intimacy with this person, no matter how your relationship structures might need to change, now is when you trust that this is possible. When my partner and I were going through our hardest periods, one of us would always bottomline having faith in our connection. Sometimes it was just one of us for months, believing hard that we'd find our way out of this rough spot, sometimes we took turns based on which conversation we were having and who was feeling spooked. Polyamory brings all the skeletons out of the closet.

The good news is that if you decide you're down (and again, no shame if it's not for you), your intimacy can get sooooo much stronger. For me, that's always the goal. Relationship structures change all the time, but I always trust that my partner and I will be best friends and confidantes even if other parts of our intimacy change with time.

I wish you the best of luck! Be patient, trust what's strong between you and your partner, and don't give in to too much fear!
 
Rochelle said:
I've never been in your position, but I imagine it must be a huge shock and take a lot of adjustment to consider opening up your monogamous marriage, especially if it's never what you wanted. This is a critical time for you: be gentle with yourself right now.

These kinds of transitions usually take a long time to become clear. I'm fairly impatient, and I've had to work hard at letting times like this strengthen my intimacies instead of pushing for decisions neither of us was ready to make.

For me, worrying about whether I needed to end a relationship (for the good of myself or my partner) was never as useful as committing myself to understanding everything I could about my own desires and needs and my partner's desires and needs. I've worked out a lot with my current partner, including things I once thought would be dealbreakers. It turns out things I thought would make me too insecure or scared weren't that scary when our bond felt really strong. But we only reached this stage by risking change, risking shaking up all our definitions and expectations. It was scary and hard, and ultimately deeply fulfilling.

If your goal is to be in a monogamous marriage with someone, this might not be the best advice for you. No shame if that's what you really need. If, on reflection, your goal is to build lifelong intimacy with this person, no matter how your relationship structures might need to change, now is when you trust that this is possible. When my partner and I were going through our hardest periods, one of us would always bottomline having faith in our connection. Sometimes it was just one of us for months, believing hard that we'd find our way out of this rough spot, sometimes we took turns based on which conversation we were having and who was feeling spooked. Polyamory brings all the skeletons out of the closet.

The good news is that if you decide you're down (and again, no shame if it's not for you), your intimacy can get sooooo much stronger. For me, that's always the goal. Relationship structures change all the time, but I always trust that my partner and I will be best friends and confidantes even if other parts of our intimacy change with time.

I wish you the best of luck! Be patient, trust what's strong between you and your partner, and don't give in to too much fear!
Click to expand...

Rochelle, thank you. This was such a great post for what I am going through right now, seriously.

It has been such a crazy ride so far, mostly within my own head. I'm sure there is a lot going on with her, too.

I've went from highs where I've felt like we're on top of the world and indestructible, to lows where I've wondered if it would be less painful to just go our separate ways.

What I've learned is that in the low times, I need to take a step back, take a deep breath, and realize that what we have together is what's most important. I want to continue building our life together and love her unconditionally.

It is going to take a long time for things to smooth out completely. But every time things get rough, I am trying to find new tools to use so we learn from it and maybe don't have to deal with the same problems again.

For example, today I started keeping a journal of any negative feelings or questions that had been floating around in my head. I was then able to respond to all of those feelings myself by referring back to conversations we've already had, and the reassurance my wife has given me. I put these down in the journal also so that if I am ever feeling unsure again, I can look back and remind myself why I should not worry. So far this has greatly improved my mood today, and probably averted having another confrontational discussion with my wife later tonight. Now instead we can focus on enjoying our time together :)
 
I find a journal useful. When my emotions are all over the place, a journal is a solid foundation that tells me what was real yesterday and what was real the day before. Without a journal, I find myself fluctuating too much, lost in the wave of the moment - either up high on the wave or down low.

Somehow, the act of writing it down makes it real. Even if my emotions today are low and I feel like I'm always going to be low, knowing that I wrote something different yesterday gives me the knowledge that things will get better.

The above points show that emotions influence our logic.

On a related philosophical note I've been meaning to explore... what if we say something we don't mean during an emotional argument - does what we say then become real to us? Think about it. The purpose of a journal is to verbalise a truth on a given day so that on another day when your emotions are different you can see the truth of what you wrote whilst in a different mood. A heated argument is the same. Words said during an argument are not words you mean, but because you've now verbalised it, you're more likely to believe it even after the argument. A similar analogy may be made with drugs or alcohol. If you are high on drugs or drunk with alcohol and someone presents a conspiracy theory or pseudoscience theory, you will probably be more likely to believe it at that time. After verbalising your agreement, will you then also be likely to believe it when you become sober? Your intellect has returned, but you remember that the argument made sense emotionally - will you be biased in your assessment of the theory if it came up again? Similarly, sex whilst slightly tipsy or high might be much more awesome than sex whilst sober. These may all be examples of situations that happen whilst experiencing profound emotions that bias our assessment of the situation whilst no longer emotional.

I should probably explore this in a different thread. Sorry for hijacking the discussion, Mockingjay. I'll link the new thread with an edit in a few hours.
 
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