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  #41  
Old 04-24-2011, 12:31 AM
koifish koifish is offline
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Well, folks, I am actually now at peace with telling everyone the wedding has been postponed. It is some of the only peace I have know in the last month.

As we barreled towards our wedding date, my fiance persisted in drinking to the point of drunkenness every day. He was emotionally unavailable and totally unaffectionate. He's depressed. He knew it was exacerbating the depression and he kept on with it, even after we had talked about it.

Day before yesterday, I got upset about it again, and said that it was not fair to me or to our relationship or to our impending marriage for him to keep on drinking and not be present with me and not resolve anything. He was pissed but when he woke up the next day he apologized for being a mess, and for drinking and vowed to stop drinking and accept help for his depression from me.

Then last night, former GF called him up and asked him to go out for a drink and he didn't think to ask me along until I said it bugged me. (In all fairness, I actually don't drink, but often just go along for the ride). So I said I really couldn't go because I had so much stuff that needed to be done for the wedding. (I have been carrying nearly all the burden of prepairing for the wedding due to his depression and also lingering guilt about having been not that great to him in the earlier planning process)

I didn't expect this response in myself, but when he got home, it bugged me significantly that he was out with our ex-GF while things were not kosher at home. Not that I think that they would get up to anything. I just wanted him home, emotionally present with me on the first night he promised to stop drinking. I don't really feel okay with them seeing each other one on one until things are good between me and him.

The thing with my fiance is that he is very very very sensitive to feeling pushed around or required to do something, due to issues with family and others during his childhood and adolescence.

So, I want a verbalized commitment that he won't see her one on one until things are square between he and I. Instead he wants me to be satisfied with him saying that it will solve the problem when he and I are happy again. Unwilling to make the verbal commitment because it is "coerced", he wanted to have me accept something more general.

I don't think I coerced him or did anything unusual. I said it would hurt my feelings for him to see ex-GF under these circumstances, and that I just needed to hear him say he wouldn't.

He became hurt and angry. He wanted empathy for me, but I had little to give, because inside my head, I was going "this is ridiculous". Why should I have to tiptoe around this sensitivity like this? It's not reasonable. Why should his exagerated need to feel completely uncoerced outweigh what I feel is a really legitimate desire on my part for him to specifically say that because it matters to me, because it would hurt my feelings for him to do so, that he will take a break from seeing ex-GF.

It seems so easy. It was so hard.

In retrospect, I might not have pushed so hard on this point in light of the fact that he was already working on his depression, but I felt our wedding day looming. Already a lot of alarming things have surfaced about his behavior under stress and grief situations. And when he started doing this, I was like fuck it, add this to the stuff you are working on.

This is why I reached the point of being at peace with postponing the wedding. Too little time to fix stuff like this. Too Much Pressure.

Now he is super mad, refusing to do things that might help his depression, barely speaking to me. Basically back to wallowing, although so far minus the alchohol.

Are my behavior or thoughts crazy? Help give me some perspective. Please.

Ps. ex-GF is not a cowgirl, and fiance doesn't intend to leave me for her.

Last edited by koifish; 04-24-2011 at 12:33 AM.
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  #42  
Old 04-24-2011, 12:44 AM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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He vowed to stop drinking and work on his issues, and yet he decided to go out that very night for a drink with his "ex" gf?

Man, that is so not good. There's all kinds of disconnect there. Thank goodness you decided not to go ahead with getting married. This is the worst case of cold feet I've ever heard of!
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  #43  
Old 04-24-2011, 01:12 AM
vodkafan vodkafan is offline
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He doesn't seem grown up enough to get married. It seems like you can verbalise your concerns and construct your arguments very well. Whereas he cannot, and resorts to sulking and getting angry.
But the drinking is the very worse thing he is doing. Don't marry a drunk. Don't even waste any breath arguing with an angry drunk. Don't waste your life. He may be a great bloke without the drink, but first you need him free of the drink. He has to do that.
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  #44  
Old 04-24-2011, 01:13 AM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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If I were you, I would walk away from the relationship altogether until he's sober and has his depression handled, whether through meds or therapy or whatever. He could use some tough love!!! You can't do it for him.

From what you've told us, this seems like a very toxic situation for you. And you are enabling him by being so understanding and putting up with his crazy bullshit. I suggest you go and check out Al-Anon meetings and connect with other people who live with loved ones who have addictions or out-of-control behavior. Sad how you see yourself as having been pushing him too hard. You're too close to the situation to see it clearly enough. It doesn't look like that from here!

http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/for-spouses-and-partners
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Last edited by nycindie; 04-24-2011 at 05:02 AM.
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  #45  
Old 04-24-2011, 02:12 AM
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MrFarFromRight MrFarFromRight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koifish View Post
He is persistently angry and it is directed at me. There is stuff that has troubled our relationship in the past and he won't believe when I say I've learned or changed (I have), and won't have enough faith to test out whether I have learned of changed. He traps me with verbal tricks. When he thinks I should know piece of information and don't, he refuses to share with me. Asks if I remember a vague something earlier in the conversation. When I don't know what he's talking about, he accuses me of not listening "like always". He says that I subconsciously forget things in order to gain advantage in an argument. (Absurd). [...] He says my shortcomings with our relationship were the same before and during the threesome. My insistence that my behavior that helped create distance between us during the threesome was actually directly related to the circumstances of the threesome only elicits anger and disbelief. I keep insisting that I had trouble being close to him and them in large part because I was stressed and unhappy and we spent a great deal of time with our third. This is met with scorn and disbelief.

Broken plate flung against the wall. Slammed door. By him. What you think?

He reconfirmed tonight that he loves me and wants to be with me.

I made an appointment with a therapist next week. I'm going. I hope he'll come with me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by koifish View Post
Well, folks, I am actually now at peace with telling everyone the wedding has been postponed. It is some of the only peace I have know in the last month.

As we barreled towards our wedding date, my fiance persisted in drinking to the point of drunkenness every day. He was emotionally unavailable and totally unaffectionate. He's depressed. He knew it was exacerbating the depression and he kept on with it [later] he apologized for being a mess, and for drinking and vowed to stop drinking and accept help for his depression from me.

Then last night, former GF called him up and asked him to go out for a drink
[...] Why should I have to tiptoe around this sensitivity like this? [...] This is why I reached the point of being at peace with postponing the wedding. Too little time to fix stuff like this. Too Much Pressure.

Now he is super mad, refusing to do things that might help his depression, barely speaking to me. Basically back to wallowing, although so far minus the alchohol.

Are my behavior or thoughts crazy? Help give me some perspective. Please.
I've pulled out quite a big chunk in quotes, but really, my following comments are based on the WHOLE of those 2 comments - including the bits that (for reason of space) I erased from the quotes.

First: CONGRATULATIONS on making an appointment with a therapist and postponing the wedding! I mean that really sincerely. Having followed this thread and the one about being outed, I know how much you were looking forward to the wedding, and I think that it took real courage for you to postpone it. The making of the appointment with the therapist proves that you recognise that there's a real problem here that needs resolving. Is it an appointment for you whether he comes or not? Or is it a relationship-counselling session that you made hoping that he would be there with you?

koifish, I really, really don't want you to take this the wrong way, but I think you should consider the possibility that you are more responsible for things going sour than you've admitted to yourself.

THIS IS NOT MY OPINION!!! I honestly have no opinion. But I happen to know that no therapy has a chance of success if the client (patient) isn't willing to consider accepting responsibilties not admitted before.

I can't - none of us on this board can - form a balanced, fair opinion if we don't hear your fiancÚ's side of the story. And even then it wouldn't be balanced without knowing both of you (and seeing how you are together).

From PERSONAL experience I can tell you that your [my] failure to "remember a vague something earlier in the conversation" might be a subconscious wish on your [my] part not to look a certain truth right in the eye... a truth that is important to him [was important to my partner].

Having said all that, I'm going to swap sides now and say that - from what you write - it really seems to me that he has to work on his shit.

It looks like he is even more concerned than you about "what will our friends say?!" (and that is NO reason to go ahead with the wedding until you're 100% sure). As Magdlyn wrote:
Quote:
He vowed to stop drinking and work on his issues, and yet he decided to go out that very night for a drink with his "ex" gf?
VERY iffy!!! Even if we remove the gf, thusly:
Quote:
He vowed to stop drinking, and yet he decided to go out that very night for a drink?
[my added bolface], it still seems iffy to me!

Throwing plates against walls then slamming doors, shoving all the blame on you, leaving all the wedding preparations to you and then getting angry because you want to postpone the wedding until you work together on the problems that you're going through...

Believe me koifish, and I write this with all the kindness at my disposal:
a) If it all works out well between the 2 of you, if you clear up these outstanding issues and grow together through this, you will never regret having postponed the wedding in order to do so.
b) If - on the other hand - you don't clear up these issues and you break off your engagement - or even your relationship - (while crying your eyes out), you will look back on all this one day and THANK YOUR LUCKY STARS that you didn't go ahead with a wedding that would have brought disaster to BOTH of you.
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  #46  
Old 04-24-2011, 03:21 AM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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I have a question for you Koifish:

Are you ONLY "at peace" with postponing the wedding, or have you ACTUALLY postponed the wedding?
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  #47  
Old 04-24-2011, 05:46 AM
koifish koifish is offline
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Thanks for the replies, everyone.

I only became sure I wanted to postpone the wedding today. I brought it up to my fiance this evening. He was non-committal as far as what he wanted to do.

He didn't actually say he would stop drinking, he said he would stop abusing alcohol and scale it back to 1-2 drinks per night.

As far as who is to blame for the current mess. The truth is we both played roles in it coming to this point. I allowed us to be in a triad when it wasn't right for me. I felt alienated from the triad I went along with a did not want, and became distant from my fiance. And he became close to GF, so that when we parted, the pain was extremely intense for him.

I was a shit sometimes with the wedding planning. Not all the time, but enough. I didn't listen to him enough and would escape into it because I was unhappy with the triad, but kept with the triad without seeing a clear way to be happier in it. I didn't want to deny him what he wanted, but I should have stood up for what I wanted better.

He would be profoundly unreliable and uncommunicative with the wedding planning ostensibly because he felt alienated from it due to my behavior. He would make repeated commitments and let them pass without saying or doing anything. My keyed-upness about the wedding was exacerbated by his behavior.


The thing is that I have made numerous heartfelt apologies for my part in this. There were things I carried from childhood that were dysfunctional. I have made large and permanent changes in my behavior. I consider myself lucky to have learned these things about myself and to have had some success in fixing them.

He was cruel to me after the breakup with GF. Angry and mean. He drank himself silly even though he knows it can make him argumentative and angry. Even after the anger passed, he drank to the point where we couldn't relate enough to have a relationship. He drank when he knew it was making his depression worse.

He did this with the knowledge that our wedding was only weeks away. Now he is barely speaking to me. Angry.

He view that his inability to give a simple verbal commitment that he won't hang out with ex-GF until things are good between us, because doing so (on pain of my feelings being super-hurt) constitutes me forcing him, concerns me. I see it as his dysfunction recast as my insensitivity.

I would feel much better if he would cop to it being kinda dysfunctional, if difficult for him to deal with currently.

"From PERSONAL experience I can tell you that your [my] failure to "remember a vague something earlier in the conversation" might be a subconscious wish on your [my] part not to look a certain truth right in the eye... a truth that is important to him [was important to my partner]."


Mrfarfromright, the thing is that he only made vague allusions to the bit of information he wanted me to recall. I wasn't sure what he was talking about and he "trapped" me and claimed that I wasn't listening, like I "never listen." It seemed sort of game, the kind that makes sense when you are drunk and angry.
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  #48  
Old 04-24-2011, 06:39 AM
koifish koifish is offline
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Ps, to anyone wondering how I persisted in being a jerk about the wedding to my fiance as late in the game as I did: I actually didn't know what he wanted or needed exactly because he would either care-take me into feeling okay, even if he did not himself feel okay, or otherwise remain mum on the subject. Or just do really mysterious behavior like avoiding talking about or doing things he had committed to for the wedding. He avoided any really frank or complete discussion of this behavior, though I would demand answers when it upset me enough. Late in the game, but prior to the breakup with ex-GF, he got really really mad at me finally. And I listened up, and took everything to heart and started working on big changes in myself. And I am an improved person for it.
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  #49  
Old 04-24-2011, 06:46 AM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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If only you could see how much you beat yourself up and blame yourself for things that were not really your fault. Yes, we all have responsibility for the parts we play in relationships, but you are really not seeing clearly just how manipulative and disrespectful your fiance has been toward you. I hope you do look into Al-Anon, as I suggested earlier. It may help you to stop thinking so little of yourself.
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  #50  
Old 04-24-2011, 03:47 PM
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MrFarFromRight MrFarFromRight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koifish View Post
I only became sure I wanted to postpone the wedding today. I brought it up to my fiance this evening. He was non-committal as far as what he wanted to do.
You are now sure that you want to postpone the wedding?
He doesn't know what he wants?
Is your attitude: "Hey, Babes, we have to decide this thing!"?

I'm ALL for joint decisions. But the time is going to come (maybe has already come) when you'll have to say to him: "OK, this is the score: The way things are now, it would be insane to get married. You want to get married to me before we resolve all this? Go ahead and do it, I'm not stopping you... but I AM NOT getting married to you. That's MY decision!"

Sorry, koifish, I honestly don't want to spoil your relationship with him, but this is YOUR future LIFE we're talking about here. Decide what YOU want and what YOU need. Don't accept default settings!
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If I can't dance, I want no part in your Revolution.
- Emma Goldman Anarchist and Polyamorous par excellence
The person who says something is impossible should not interrupt the person who is doing it.
- old Chinese proverb
And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.
~ Anais Nin
I'd rather have a broken heart / Than have a heart of stone.
- from "Boundless Love (A Polyamory Song)" by Jimmy Hollis i Dickson

Last edited by MrFarFromRight; 04-24-2011 at 04:43 PM. Reason: spelling mistake
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