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Old 09-28-2009, 07:50 AM
Tajel Tajel is offline
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Red face in search of truth

Hello everyone,
I found this forum because I need help. this past august I went away from home for three weeks to obtain some massage therapy training. everything was fine til I got home. let me give you the specifics.

my wife and I Were in an open relationship. she was actually doing most of the outside dating. we had three simple rules, use a condom, no anal and no one in our bed if we were not both present. before I left she made some comments about a friend of ours and I said that I had already noticed that they were getting close. long story short I went away and she told me that they had been together and also that she was in love with him. I made sure she knew I was okay with that and was actually happy for her. on my return I found out that they had slept together three times without condoms. My heart broke into a million pieces.

upon venting my spleen I was confronted with her wanting to protect her relationship with our friend. I had made no ultimatums and was truly trying get back into a safe place. this turn in the conversation left me flabbergasted. it made me so angry that my back began to hurt and I was laid up in bed for 4 days, not once did she apologize for her actions, but she did occasionally tell me about her love for this other gent and how she couldn't let go of him. she also told me about how she wanted have a polyamorous relationship.

she wouldn't make love to me for the next 5 weeks. but spent numerous overnights with the the guy I had renamed "that fucker". because things got strange he rejected her and this is what brings me to the forums. if my wife and I are going to survive this experience and grow i'm gonna need the help of some seasoned polys, because I came home to a different relationship than what I had left there. I can take somethings in stride but I have few questions to ask.

was I wrong to try and ignore her new relationship while feeling shit upon? should a couple truly change to poly whilst in the midst of an almost relationship ending affair? and jeez I don't know what to do. I am just trying to figure out if I can be there with her if my trust hasn't been rebuilt.

sorry if I sound a little sappy but I do love her and she is normally a good woman. it's just that my trust has been shattered and starting again without the familiarity of the old coping mechanisms in our relationship has been trying. but she says this is how she wants to be and doesn't want to live in the old relationshipas that would be living a lie.

please help.
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  #2  
Old 09-28-2009, 08:57 PM
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vandalin vandalin is offline
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First, welcome to the forums.

Second, unless you are a teenager (no offense Berserker) can't you come up with a better name than "that fucker?"

You do have every right to be upset. She broke the rules by not using protection. I'm not sure how much communication actually happened after you got back, but it sounds like not much. I mean real communication, not just spleen venting. Why didn't she use condoms? What does she mean by "protecting her relationship" with the other guy? How did "things get strange" to the point where he rejected her?

Ignoring something never made it go away. If up until this point you had a communicative relationship, then why did that stop? It sounds like we may be missing some details though maybe?

What were the old coping mechanisms and why are they gone?

Change happens. She has found out that she would prefer a polyamory relationship as opposed to polyfuckery relationship that has been the norm up to this point. Do you love her enough to try and do you love yourself enough to know whether you can live with this?

Give it time, talk with her more.

Good luck.
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  #3  
Old 09-28-2009, 11:09 PM
Fidelia Fidelia is offline
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Oh, man.

Tajel . . . BrotherMan . . . I am so sorry for what you're going through. I really am. That's the main thing I want to say. My heart goes out to you. Yowza!

Next, I need to urge you to immediately get tested for STD's if you haven't already been. Safety first.

You are 100% justified in feeling that your trust has been violated. The rules you and your wife had established were so simple, and clear, and easy to keep. Nevertheless they were violated. To make matters worse, your feelings of hurt and betrayal were discounted, while the new relationship was thrown in your face. Honestly, if that were me, I would already be out the door and in the lawyer's office. But that's me, and I admire your determination to work through this horrible situation with your wife. You deserve better.

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Originally Posted by Tajel View Post
was I wrong to try and ignore her new relationship while feeling shit upon?
Sadly, yes, you were. I agree wholeheartedly with Vandalin on this point; ignoring something never made it go away.

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Originally Posted by Tajel View Post
should a couple truly change to poly whilst in the midst of an almost relationship ending affair?
IMO, no. Deal with the disloyalty issue first. Then, assuming the marriage survives, discuss making the transition to poly, moving only as fast as all partners agree to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tajel View Post
and jeez I don't know what to do. I am just trying to figure out if I can be there with her if my trust hasn't been rebuilt.
I truly admire that you are even willing to entertain the idea and continue to trying to be open to poly. I would already be a fading memory.
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Old 09-29-2009, 03:24 AM
Tajel Tajel is offline
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Default Thank god theres someone to talk to!!!

First off Vandalin and Fidelia I want to thank you for responding to my post. and yes vandalin I did come up with better names than "that fucker" but I thought they might detract from the point I was trying to make. LOL

this is a trying time to say the least, one of the reasons that I haven't left already is because we have two beautiful children. also because my two previous relationships ended badly, if this relationship was to end I would most likely never have another one again. they would just be too much trouble, especially after a divorce. so I've decided to give it everything I've got, this being my last chance and all.

before posting last night I was doing a lot of research on poly relationships. there are a plethora of different ways to do it, but the one thing they all have in common is that the partners have an agreement. when I came back from california and I was slapped in the face with an open relationship I was angry. I would have agreed to one had I been given the choice, but c'est la vie. I agree with fidelia when she said she would have been gone. that was my first thought, but something said stay and try to work it out, at least for a little.

so I followed my heart and now a month and a half later rationality is returning and i'm making it clear in no uncertain terms that I find what is happenning completely unnacceptable. this is the interesting point. tonight she said that she needs a separate life. HA! well what can you do about that? I explained that if she needs a seperate life then marriage to me isn't for her.

i don't know how she can expect a relationship or marriage to work if your not on the same page. cause if we were I would give her the world. I find that her need to not share information or details with me has caused a great deal of mistrust. I even suggested "a period of monogamy" to see if we could get back on track. i'm the type of husband that if anythings going on I still want to be the priority. that may be selfish but I am so willing to share and forgive (but we can't forget can we) and to move forwward.

just so you know where i'm coming from I feel that love is universal and that we should love everything everywhere. I also understand that you love a rattlesnake from a distance. so as long a someone seems penitent then I can forgive almost any transgression thats just the type of person i've become over the years.

I found that she didn't feel that she could express herself to me. too many secrets are like too many chefs in the kitchen, Ya know? we've really only calmed down enough to start having the true dialogue about 2 weeks ago. i've been crying out of hand during those talks for no SPECIFIC reason. I don't feel that we have a healthy relationship at this time, but I also don't think it can't be saved. i'm gonna put some more time into this just cause I got a whole life ahead of me and would like it to be with her... if possible. we are also seeking counseling just to be safe. if you know of anything in the Philadelphia area please let me know.

you guys are great I was going to just come back and post again if no one had replied. maybe use this as a journal of sorts, but I needed some sage advice and you delivered. thank you from thee bottom of my heart.

last question. do you feel that poly relationships are more of the sharing kind? by that, I mean to say the type where partners share information with each other freely. and have you ever seen a poly relationship that was the opposite and successful?

once again i am so apreciative for all that you've given me even if it doesn't seem like a lot to you. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
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Old 09-29-2009, 03:54 AM
HappiestManAlive HappiestManAlive is offline
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Quote:
last question. do you feel that poly relationships are more of the sharing kind? by that, I mean to say the type where partners share information with each other freely. and have you ever seen a poly relationship that was the opposite and successful?
If nothing else anywhere in this thread comes to anything at all, let it be said that this sentence right here is what it's all about, poly relationship aside. In order for ANY relationship to work - to REALLY work and "be all it can be" - it needs to have open communiction. When Violet and I even THINK we MIGHT be harboring something or left something out or "accidentally" lied, we grab the other one and talk it out. Sound silly? It has changed my life. Radically. The single biggest obstacle in our developing relationship with Anne is getting her comfortable with this concept. People talk about communicating and total honesty, and I can say now with absolute confidence that the VAST majority of them have no idea what they're talking about! It is SO HARD - and it is SO WORTH IT. And as it applies specifically to aa poly relationship - well, it's plumb necessary. Mono relationships can struggle on and limp along in one way or another (been there, done that, many times) more easily than most poly arrangements; there are fewer points of view and possible points of contention. A poly relationship is a LOT of work, requiring great deal of personal sacrifice to attain the AWESOME upside.

Last edited by HappiestManAlive; 09-29-2009 at 03:58 AM.
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Old 09-29-2009, 04:22 AM
AutumnalTone AutumnalTone is offline
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Wow, Tajel, just wow! I'm with Fidelia--I would have been gone before this point. That whole "I broke the rules and I'm not sorry" thing would have been all I required to scoot out the door.

At this point, I'm thinking the best thing you can do for yourself and your children is to get to a lawyer.
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Old 09-29-2009, 01:52 PM
Fidelia Fidelia is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tajel View Post
last question. do you feel that poly relationships are more of the sharing kind? by that, I mean to say the type where partners share information with each other freely. and have you ever seen a poly relationship that was the opposite and successful?
Functional relationships of any form (poly or mono) are more of the sharing kind than you are currently experiencing. Polyamory in particular needs continuous, open communication based in respect and love for all parties involved. That intense level of communication is what makes poly so challenging, and so worth it.

Quote:
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and have you ever seen a poly relationship that was the opposite and successful?
No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tajel View Post
once again i am so apreciative for all that you've given me even if it doesn't seem like a lot to you. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Precious heart, you are welcome, welcome, welcome. It's what we do here, help and support each other.

And it wasn't that long ago that I was where you are now, in the sense that I was bleeding out emotionally and psychologically, and stuck there, when the dear folks here handed me bandages and told me where to apply the touriquets. I'm still a work in progress, but I am making progress.

I wish for you the best possible outcome, whatever that may be. And I wish for you peace, comfort, and healing in this very difficult time.
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Old 09-29-2009, 02:05 PM
Fidelia Fidelia is offline
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There's one more thing I want to say, in relation to the children. Keep in mind that the interaction between you and your wife is what your children will see as the model for relationships between adults. At the moment, according to what you've written, what they're seeing is very unhealthy. One partner behaving without regard or respect for the other, while the injured party basically just bleeds out. Boundaries overun heedlessly without consequence. Your children may not know all the details, but they see that you are hurting and your wife isn't helping you.

Is that what you want them to think is acceptable? If it's not, you need to model healthier behavior.
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  #9  
Old 09-29-2009, 08:16 PM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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In order for ANY relationship to work - to REALLY work and "be all it can be" - it needs to have open communiction.

THAT sentence (copied from above poster) is totally true. So many people think that they can live life with "some" communication. But a truly healthy, happy and secure relationship requires that both people be able to discuss ANYTHING. It's not easy-as someone else said-but it's SO WORTH IT.

We're all works in progress and some people in life are further along then others. The counseling is a good idea. I can't recall the website-but I found this last week a site for "poly-friendly professionals". You might type that into a web browser and see if you can find a poly-friendly counselor-so you can work on the relationship itself AND decide if you are even willing to go poly with your wife-having an educated 3rd party there to help.

Good luck!
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Old 10-01-2009, 01:01 AM
Tajel Tajel is offline
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Default oh wow!!!

i wanted to post here every day. but yesterday i was busy with an interesting dialogue. i found out that my wife is not in love with me even though she loves me but is in love with him. i tried one of her coping methods and got drunk for the first time in my life. i won't be doing that again but i still love tequila.!!! i'm in need of a safe space for healing and her love for him is keeping her from aquiescing to my request for a moratorium on external sex. i need to move i have a place but i'm stuck here. at least the tequila kept me laughing instead of crying.
she says she nneds a safe space for herself and feels that i'm trying to control her. i fixed that by breaking up with her but i'm still just sitting here.

i feel betrayed destroyed and broken and am holding on to the remnants of the old relationship we had. but that relationship doesn't exist any more. i gotta get that through my head. i just want her to feel safe but i don't think i can give it to her by staying, because i need a safe place to heal. and she's not giving it to me.

our 6th anniversary was sunday and it feels so bad to have made it this far and then quit. but we just can't seem to get on the same page. it feels like our marriage is based on a lie, or at least some false assumptions. and i can't bend to her wishes and she can't bend to mine. she says just stay and work it out, but i won't stay until i get a promise to protect me for her stupid actions. maybe that is control but who cares at this point. i just want my sanity no matter how many tears i have to cry. thank you all for your advice. writing these letters has been helping me immensely. and knowing that there are others out there who can help is a godsend.

@ Lovingradiance thank you for the info. found three counselors but it may be too late to have them help us.

and too all, love often, love plenty and love deep. treasure what you have and let it grow.
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