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  #31  
Old 04-08-2011, 01:13 AM
Tonberry Tonberry is offline
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Well, the feeling I talked about was apparently something that blossoms in anticipation, when it doesn't happen or can't happen. Confessing runs the "risk" of the person telling you they like you back, which stops that period of dreaming and starts a different stage that's actually real. Maybe "crush" is the wrong word, although people who have crushes openly often still don't expect anything to actually result from them... I've seen that happen at least.
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  #32  
Old 04-08-2011, 08:16 AM
preciselove preciselove is offline
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Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Well here is a biological condition to which I alluded above.

There is a chart in Sex at Dawn (read it), which shows the sizes of the penis and testicles in several species of ape, humans included. The testicles of bonobos, chimps and humans hang outside the body. The testicles of gorillas and gibbons are tiny in comparison to the others,' and are tucked up inside the body.

The first 3 have chilly testicles, which increases sperm production. They are meant to be used to take part in sperm competition with other males, having sex with the same female.

The head of the human male corona is extra large and works as a squeegee to scrape out another man's semen. Not mentioned in the book is the idea that women's watery ejaculate is produced to wash out semen, to make way for something better that just came along.

Loud female vocalizing during orgasm is a mating call to attract other men. "Ooh! Someone's in the mood." She is multi-orgasmic, while most men are good for just one shot (at least for an hour or so). So, the first guy or 2 are just warmups.
Sounds interesting, thanks for sharing this.

One thing a lot of people don't realize though is just because something is natural or intended to be a certain way doesn't make it the most optimal. Our knowledge of diseases now means if you were to have orgies like that with the wide diversity now on offer you would likely be dead within a few years, or at the least, severely impacted. Genital warts, HPV, etc can all be passed on even using protection. Where does "Sperm wars" come into it when we can do DNA tests and have massive selections of people to choose from? It's like trying to raycast on a 386 (with math coprocessor) when you have an I7 available.

We may have evolved to be like that, in our tiny groups of about 30, walking around the plains, but it doesn't really gel well with the information we have now. I think you can reprogram a few basic biological things with your brain, not all, but some, and we should do that if we want to be successful. My advice to people, don't get stuck on the nature is always right path. Often it's just random chance something is a certain way, and gaining meaning out of randomness is rather silly.

Last edited by preciselove; 04-08-2011 at 08:20 AM.
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  #33  
Old 04-08-2011, 08:57 AM
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BlackUnicorn BlackUnicorn is offline
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BlackUnicorn, I've often thought of love similarly, as a composite of different types of feelings in different degrees. Would you say "passion" is the same as sexual attraction, or different? I'm thinking about my feelings for D, which definitely fit the NRE definition, but I would hesitate to describe the passion as sexual. Last night between dances we went outside to talk, and he put his arms around me when I got cold, but it felt more snuggly. When L puts his arms around me I feel a sexual current run straight through me. I am eager to see D again (was thrilled he changed plans last night and showed up where he knew I'd be dancing) and we can get giddy looking into each other's eyes, but I don't really want to see him naked! But intimacy? I hardly know him and don't know if I'll get to. Commitment? I can't see this going anywhere. So passion, not sexual? What is that?

I'm not sure what the theory says (I was in high-school when I read about it), but personally, I equate passion with intensity of emotion. I understand the English ethymology of the word comes from Latin's passio and originally means suffering, as in passion play. From a Buddhist perspective, passion could thus mean either a strong desire to approach or an equally strong desire to avoid an object of the passion. In my native language, passion literally translates as 'eager lust' or 'keen desire'.

So I'll go with passion in the context of love meaning a strong desire to approach the object of your passion, which can express itself in sexual feeling.

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(With L and H I feel all 3 feelings, which is why I wonder if I'm missing out on anything by forgoing sex with L.)
Maybe, maybe not. Adhering to the progress model of relationships, yes. Is the progress model any good? Maybe not.
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  #34  
Old 04-08-2011, 11:40 AM
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MrFarFromRight MrFarFromRight is offline
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In my native language, passion literally translates as 'eager lust' or 'keen desire'.
Which language? Do you speak German? In German, passion is Leidenschaft and there's a saying (playing with the separation of words into their components):
"Eifersucht ist eine Leidenschaft, die Eifer sucht... und Leiden schaft."
[Jealousy is a passion, which seeks Eagerness... and creates suffering.]

Don't want to highjack this thread, but since there's some interest in ground-breaking anthropological books on here already (OK: book, singular: "Sex At Dawn"), I want to mention 2 others that I find excellent.

"The Descent Of Woman" by Elaine Morgan and "Cows, Pigs, Wars and Witches" by Marvin Harris. In order to avoid getting deleted here for being off-topic, I've included some explanation on both books in this comment on a "Sex At Dawn" thread.
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  #35  
Old 04-08-2011, 02:25 PM
AnotherConfused AnotherConfused is offline
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Yes, this makes total sense to me! Passion as an eagerness, a desire to be with someone. I've got that can't-get-enough-of-you feeling for D these days (and for L, end even H although I do get plenty of him).

Had a long talk with D last night. We're in this tricky spot. Both married, happily. His wife has such bruised trust from his affair 25 yrs ago. So on the one hand he doesn't even want email from me, and of course not to pursue any sort of sexual relationship, for her sake. My H is more trusting and doesn't mind so much my emotional affairs. D and I mostly just want to keep doing this feels-so-good dancing, but what's tempting is to ignore everyone else on the dance floor the whole night, and dance in a way that leads onlookers to suspect there's something happening in the bedroom, even when there isn't. Can't have that. I also want time to get to know who he is off the dance floor, and we really can't have that either. So we're playing with the idea of meeting to dance in some little nightclub where no one knows us, so we don't have to worry about how it looks. Or the idea of heading out on a dance night but skipping the dance to go sit and talk in a coffee shop. But I don't like the thought of sneaking around with someone's husband, even if it is just to talk. Not sure what we'll do about it all.

So in a way it is still also a crush, in the sense that there is nothing more to pursue. Seems our relationship will consist of dancing with a lot of passion, and restraint. And that's ok.
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  #36  
Old 04-08-2011, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by MrFarFromRight View Post
Which language? Do you speak German? In German, passion is Leidenschaft and there's a saying (playing with the separation of words into their components):
"Eifersucht ist eine Leidenschaft, die Eifer sucht... und Leiden schaft."
[Jealousy is a passion, which seeks Eagerness... and creates suffering.]
Finnish, and yes, I am passively conversant in German, although can't claim to actually speak the language with any sort of ease. That particular saying I learnt from a German ex of mine .

The actual Finnish word for passion is a compound word 'intohimo', and GoogleTranslate, the leading authority in the field, translates the first part of the word, into, as zeal, eagerness and zest, the latter part, himo, as lust, craving and desire. So I wasn't too of the mark with my translation!

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Originally Posted by AnotherConfused View Post
So we're playing with the idea of meeting to dance in some little nightclub where no one knows us, so we don't have to worry about how it looks. Or the idea of heading out on a dance night but skipping the dance to go sit and talk in a coffee shop. But I don't like the thought of sneaking around with someone's husband, even if it is just to talk. Not sure what we'll do about it all..
Sadly, if it feels like cheating, it most often is. Have you thought about D explaining the situation to his wife, or is that a complete no-no?
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  #37  
Old 04-08-2011, 03:12 PM
AnotherConfused AnotherConfused is offline
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I get the feeling from D that if he told his wife how he feels about me, she wouldn't want him to go out dancing any more. (He didn't even want me to call his home to get his granddaughter's phone number for babysitting, months ago before these feelings had built up. She seems to be either very controlling, very untrusting, or both.) She already doesn't like him to go out dancing, but it's a compromise they've made in their marriage because it's so important to him. I asked whether she believes, knowing him as well as she does, that he is out dancing and not forming any feelings for the women he meets, and he wasn't sure.

So in some ways, even just dancing with him feels like cheating, but that at least is something his wife knows he is doing. The real cheat comes from how awesomely good it feels when we dance. I'm certain she wouldn't be comfortable with how good I make him feel, and vice versa. But it does feel good, and I can't control that. Should we stop dancing together? That would be sad.

I imagine we'll find an equilibrium in the next few weeks.
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  #38  
Old 04-08-2011, 09:43 PM
AnotherConfused AnotherConfused is offline
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Yep, D just called to say we need to cool it. No more than 3 dances in a row now (like most folks in these venues). No going anywhere else. Funny, but that feels fine to me. I like the longing.
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  #39  
Old 04-09-2011, 01:23 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Was that his idea, or hers, I wonder?
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  #40  
Old 04-09-2011, 02:34 PM
AnotherConfused AnotherConfused is offline
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His. He hasn't told her anything. He just felt like we were taking it too far and it was making him uncomfortable, considering both our spouses.

I actually told my husband about it last night, even though he has said he doesn't want to know when I am in love. I figured he should know why I was a little sleep deprived and distracted this week, and horny. He wasn't bothered, and in fact chuckled when I said it had made me feel sexy. We were putting our clothes back on at the time.

I've been surprised at how peaceful I've felt about cooling it off. Like I've just stepped off a roller coaster, grinning and breathless but grateful for the solid ground. I wonder if it will feel the same when I see D again, which likely won't be for several days.

Tonight I get to go dance with L. Life is beautiful!
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