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  #171  
Old 06-27-2012, 10:23 PM
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K, I read. Well. Skimmed. Its kinda long.

I get that he wants to date her. I guess now I think that he just doesn't want to so much that he will push it with his girlfriend. Actually, I think there hasn't been enough time for things to unfold.

You are all so new to poly and open relationships. It doesn't all just happen over night. People don't just snap their fingers and bingo it all works for everyone. It takes time to process and is about the journey, not the destination. Just because things seems all tied up in a nice bow because you are dating him and he has her does not mean that the drama ends there. It goes on and on and on. Its just how it is with multi level relationship dynamics. Its exhausting some times and just letting it go is often all that can be done.

My advice would be to see it as is. It is what it is. Likely they are processing it if he is that interested in doing so and likely there will be something else come up that you can't even possibly imagine right now. Pace yourself Mercury. Save your energy. You have pages and pages here of this now and really, there is nothing I can see that you could possibly do to change how THEY do things. You've done what you think is best and good for you. That's all you can do.
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  #172  
Old 06-27-2012, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by km34 View Post
I don't see it as a wrong to tell someone that you aren't comfortable with certain things. Whether those things are habits like smoking, drinking, texting while in a conversation, all the way to having a relationship(s) with certain people.

If she hadn't told him she couldn't handle you dating her, and then her insecurities caused issues for all of you, you'd be judging her for not being honest. Which would you rather have? Honesty that creates a veto or hidden issues that create drama? I'd go with the veto to save myself long-term issues.

I don't consider vetoes inherently right or wrong. I don't consider telling someone that I am not comfortable with them being friends with someone wrong if I have a good reason for it. I don't consider it wrong to tell my husband that I am not comfortable with him dating someone who is also struggling with some of the same issues I am struggling with if he only has the time/energy/ability to deal with one person with those issues.
As mentioned on another thread, this wouldn't be considered vetoing. Vetoing is demanding another not do certain things or else. Its a form of ultimatum. What you are expressing as the meaning of veto is actually about expressing concerns and requesting certain boundaries be met. That is honest and open communicating and is to be respected I think.

Perhaps this girlfriend has done that and he has framed it as "she said I can't. " Not surprising and not uncommon. Its a cowardly way of saying, "ya, I don't want it be with you because I want to be with her more." (Which is what I was trying to get at in one of my previous posts)

If he isn't dating you it wouldn't be a veto at all actually. Its an agreement they have to start fresh and not look back at where they have been. New boundaries and new beginnings. I see nothing wrong with that. I think you threw a wrench on that Mercury. I think they did everything right in negotiating new boundaries and moving forward to try dating again.. Again. I would suggest you sit and wait. I don't see any indication that time has past and you seem hasty to get moving on this to show her out as wrong and bad. I doubt it will put you in a good standing if you carry that attitude into negotiations if you find yourself in a position to be welcomed to negotiate with at all.
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  #173  
Old 06-27-2012, 10:36 PM
mercury mercury is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
K, I read. Well. Skimmed. Its kinda long.

I get that he wants to date her. I guess now I think that he just doesn't want to so much that he will push it with his girlfriend. Actually, I think there hasn't been enough time for things to unfold.

You are all so new to poly and open relationships. It doesn't all just happen over night. People don't just snap their fingers and bingo it all works for everyone. It takes time to process and is about the journey, not the destination. Just because things seems all tied up in a nice bow because you are dating him and he has her does not mean that the drama ends there. It goes on and on and on. Its just how it is with multi level relationship dynamics. Its exhausting some times and just letting it go is often all that can be done.

My advice would be to see it as is. It is what it is. Likely they are processing it if he is that interested in doing so and likely there will be something else come up that you can't even possibly imagine right now. Pace yourself Mercury. Save your energy. You have pages and pages here of this now and really, there is nothing I can see that you could possibly do to change how THEY do things. You've done what you think is best and good for you. That's all you can do.
Thanks for your thoughts. And I agree that it was a learning experience for all.

I actually didn't mean for the thread to become this detailed. I'm not so much trying to be pushy and demand that I'm right. (Initially, I was just writing a general "pity me, people, please!" post. But I'm sort of an analytical person (and a writer), so when people start weighing things, I weigh in as well in that way that is defending myself and my attempts.

I'm actually more okay with the whole situation than it may seem. It's not all that recent. The whole "reconnect attempt" happened in late March and first few weeks of April. And he and I traded a few emails into May about it and various other light topics. I've been really preoccupied with something else since then, actually, but I browse this board every so often and felt a sudden inclination to share about the veto. And then, like I said, I react to the things people say.

I'm actually pretty okay. It's just that I haven't met anybody new. And the guy ("Derek" -- funny, his name is sooo far from Derek) was an appealing guy.
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  #174  
Old 06-27-2012, 10:40 PM
mercury mercury is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
As mentioned on another thread, this wouldn't be considered vetoing. Vetoing is demanding another not do certain things or else. Its a form of ultimatum. What you are expressing as the meaning of veto is actually about expressing concerns and requesting certain boundaries be met. That is honest and open communicating and is to be respected I think.

Perhaps this girlfriend has done that and he has framed it as "she said I can't. " Not surprising and not uncommon. Its a cowardly way of saying, "ya, I don't want it be with you because I want to be with her more." (Which is what I was trying to get at in one of my previous posts)

If he isn't dating you it wouldn't be a veto at all actually. Its an agreement they have to start fresh and not look back at where they have been. New boundaries and new beginnings. I see nothing wrong with that. I think you threw a wrench on that Mercury. I think they did everything right in negotiating new boundaries and moving forward to try dating again.. Again. I would suggest you sit and wait. I don't see any indication that time has past and you seem hasty to get moving on this to show her out as wrong and bad. I doubt it will put you in a good standing if you carry that attitude into negotiations if you find yourself in a position to be welcomed to negotiate with at all.
We can go back and forth about whether it is a veto or not. Some people would consider it a veto and others wouldn't. No one's going to change their mind.

Hasty to get moving on what?

I'm just talking on a message board; I'm not speaking to them.

I guess you're referring to "if they decide to negotiate about you seeing him again, you (as in me, mercury) would need to lose the bad attitude"?

Is that what you're saying?

Because yeah, of course, I would be kind and considerate if I talked with her/him/them again.

I don't think that will happen though.
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  #175  
Old 06-27-2012, 10:41 PM
km34 km34 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redpepper View Post
As mentioned on another thread, this wouldn't be considered vetoing. Vetoing is demanding another not do certain things or else. Its a form of ultimatum. What you are expressing as the meaning of veto is actually about expressing concerns and requesting certain boundaries be met. That is honest and open communicating and is to be respected I think.
If I say I'm not comfortable with something, then am I not saying "Don't do it or else I'm not going to stick around?" It's one and the same to me. I guess the way I would phrase it would be more of a take-it-or-leave-it your choice, not mine kind of thing, though? I don't know. I don't really see the difference if the idea is the same.
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  #176  
Old 06-27-2012, 10:49 PM
mercury mercury is offline
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To add: I don't see myself getting involved with him or them again unless the dynamic was vastly different, where she seemed really open and truly ready for polyamory. And him too. Or really willing to try.

I wouldn't get re-involved in a situation with them where it was very clear that she/he/they wanted me to know my place, etc., where it was just "negotiating" in such a way that I make sure I don't overstep her bounds, and everything was more about her and/or them than about me.

It was a huge mistake to get involved with them at all.

In essence, it doesn't matter how I "sound" or if I "appear to be making her the bad guy." It's not as if I'm anticipating a reunion and need to prepare myself by displaying the right attitude for a reunion...lol...definitely not.
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  #177  
Old 06-27-2012, 10:52 PM
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Km34- the difference between veto and asking for a partner to respect your opinion is a matter of ultimatum. A veto is an ultimatum. Its like saying, "I will not stay with you if you do not do as I tell you to do." Sometimes partners give each other the right to veto others. An act I find cruel to anyone they date btw. In that situation its meant to be a sign of honour toward a partner (usually primary) but really its a sign of allowing them to own your heart. Foolish and just not realistic I have discovered.

I am not referring to anything you have done, said or think and feel in your relationship. It comes down to basic descriptions of a veto. Try doing a tag search and you will see the thread on this topic that has been discussed already. Sorry, I don't have time right now to find it for you
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  #178  
Old 06-27-2012, 10:53 PM
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I see Mercury, you just wanted to talk about this. Got it.
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  #179  
Old 06-27-2012, 10:55 PM
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Yep. Talk about it on the Internet. To strangers. With an anonymous nickname. That always hurts people in one's real life.
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  #180  
Old 06-27-2012, 10:59 PM
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Well, good luck. It fucking sucks and I feel for you, having been the one dumped because of someone elses fear and threat and because they didn't want me that close to their man. Yup. You have my sympathy.
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agreements, contracts, control issues, envy, jealous, jealousy, metamour concerns, new to poly, nre, relationship dynamics, relationship issues, secondaries, secondary, sex, veto, veto policy, veto power, vetos

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