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  #31  
Old 03-28-2011, 08:07 PM
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Oh man this is not sitting well with me either. It harks of control some how and NRE gone wild. I have the same gut feeling penny.

I appreciate that he is a "nice" guy and made you breakfast Cap'n, but this going WAY to fast to be inviting him over for kid time. How long have they been together?

Sorry, this just kinda creeps me some how. Some how I have it in my head that she is sex happy and he can do no wrong because of it. She has iussues, you have issues and yet this guy is right in there with fluid bonding and family time. It freaks me out.

Still, I'm not you, we don't know her side or his side and really, if she goes by her gut and so do you and this guy is all good in that respect then who am I to say. Really its the issues you've laid out that make me think that this guy is moving in too fast. That was just way too much to decide on over one breakfast.

Why the hell was HE telling you about the fluid bonding and why after three weeks?! Something is just not right to me. I can't help shaking that they are setting you up for her leaving you.
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  #32  
Old 03-28-2011, 08:48 PM
CaptainKIDD23 CaptainKIDD23 is offline
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@Redpepper, My wife has known OG since the beginning of September 2010. They have been together since the end of October. They have been sleeping together since the end of January. In all, they have known eachother for 7 months now.

I guess the problem I am having is that I dis-trust my "gut". I am having a hard time deciding whether I am being hurt because my wife is being insensitive, and her relationship with OG is showing problematic red flags OR whether its my BPD and fears of abandonment acting up.... If I went by my "gut", I'd want my marriage to stay monogamous. If my goal was to avoid pain and insecurity I would have asked my wife to keep our traditional marital vows. The way to overcome specific phobias is to face them head on. It is by avoiding fear triggering stimuli that keeps phobias alive, its by ignoring your "gut" and facing your fear that phobias are cured (exposure therapy). I guess what I am trying to sort out, is whether that is a good model for turning a mono-relationship into a poly-relationship... OR am I ignoring insensitivities. By seeking to avoid my jealousy, insecurity and possessiveness, am I also overlooking inconsiderations? On these points I am very, very confused.

Last edited by CaptainKIDD23; 03-28-2011 at 08:49 PM. Reason: clumsy wording
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  #33  
Old 03-29-2011, 03:43 AM
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I am alarmed that she and OG went ahead and fluid-bonded without discussing it with you beforehand. Seven months isn't really a long time to be involved before doing that. There are a number of tests that do not get performed unless requested, and many that require regular periodic testing to be (more) sure. Furthermore, she is not just fluid-bonded with him, she is fluid-bonded with the both of you - and that means you are at risk. Taking this drastic step without your knowledge, permission, and investigation of the "facts" (ie., have you seen his test results on paper? How recent were they both tested?) is flagrantly disrespectful to you, and just plain stupid and selfish. "Oh, by the way, we fluid-bonded a few weeks ago." What kind of crap is that??!!! And now you are in a position where, if they won't use protection, you should. Because they expect you to just go on his word, but since they didn't include you in the decision, his word is worthless, as I see it. That is screwed up.

If I were you, I would stand up for myself in the face of this dismissive and idiotic act, and NOT have him in your home interacting with your children until that breach of trust is healed. It is a serious thing they did!

But I think I will speak mostly to your last post.

Her communications to you have been quite unkind, and yes -- it seems there is an element of vengefulness or wanting to punish you somewhere in all this. You are trying to be a nice guy but you are in this poly situation when you really don't want to be. It does not seem like your feelings or need to perhaps move more slowly, were even taken into consideration. And now you are expected to just put up with whatever she wants, while your "seeking to avoid my jealousy, insecurity and possessiveness," as you say, isn't helping you one bit. Besides, avoidance doesn't really work -- ask anyone who drinks or uses drugs to avoid the pain of living. The pain is still there, just buried by addictions, and it never goes away.

You cannot avoid your feelings. The only way they can truly be "vanquished," that is, no longer rule you, is to feel those feelings as they come up, look at them, let your self be with what is, and not try to avoid it all. So, if you're jealous, fuck, that is what you are! It doesn't mean you need to lash out at anyone because of them, but avoiding them only keeps them around. "Whatever you resist, persists, and grows stronger." Once you allow yourself to be just as you are, those rages, insecurities, etc., will complete themselves and you will see things more clearly. Sure, they'll come up again, but the more you practice being okay with your emotional responses, the less power they have over you.

In Journey of the Heart by John Welwood (a book on relationships which I highly recommend), he writes:
"Depending on how we relate to love's pain, it can lead in one of two very different directions. If we regard it as a threat, something to avoid at all cost, we will try to patch it over, keep it out of sight. After a while, however, accumulating patches only deadens our sensitivity and our capacity to love freely. Resenting the pain involved in becoming vulnerable to another person causes us to lose heart or harden our heart, and this cuts off the energetic flow between us.

Yet if we can learn to make use of our pain, it can be an invaluable helper and guide on the path. For it exposes and directs our attention to places inside us where we are shut down, contracted, and half-asleep. If I can move with my pain more fluidly, my rigid defenses start to dissolve and I become more permeable to love's awakening influence. And when I can let my partner see my hurt, instead of hiding it away, where it may fester and poison the relationship, this creates greater intimacy between us.

Of course, nobody wants to feel pain. Yet to become a warrior of the heart--one who is willing to risk being wounded in the service of love--we must be able to use the pain that relationship inevitably brings our way."
Letting someone see your pain is not about whining or making demands, but about being truthful and present. Welwood also says, "Awareness holds no grudge . . . it simply allows us to see what is," and that "trying to find the right way to be" (instead of just being) keeps us from being genuinely present. It's okay not to know what to do or to be uncomfortable. It will pass, eventually. And if your wife can't be present in the face of your pain, then what is she avoiding? Perhaps her whole involvement with OG is an avoidance of something! I found it interesting that you started off this thread by saying "Our marriage has been very happy and successful. It still is." Yet, the more you reveal, the more it seems like there are undercurrents of resentment and festering anger.

You mentioned that both you and your wife are in marriage counseling -- is that in group sessions together, or separately? I think it would behoove you to talk together in therapy about every microtruth of what's going on for you. AND ask her to register here and post her side of the story. We won't bite.
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Last edited by nycindie; 03-29-2011 at 04:50 AM.
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  #34  
Old 03-29-2011, 04:07 AM
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Kidd, have you tried meditation? My husband and I are still new to poly and him dating another woman has triggered a lot of the same fears of abandonment and insecurity that it sounds like you are experiencing. Lately I often feel overwhelmed and like my emotions and intellect are all out of whack--that I can't trust my gut. One thing that's helped me is mindfulness meditation, where I let myself fully experience the fear I'm feeling, without trying to push it away or tell myself a story about it. Sometimes I end up in tears, but usually in the end the fear dies away a little and it all feels a little less overwhelming so I can more easily identify what's an irrational fear and what's a more legitimate problem.

I find it's also helpful to follow my fears to their (usually illogical) end. For example, if he gets ready to leave on a date and I feel abandoned, I fear he likes her more, that he doesn't love me, that I'll never find someone else who does, that I'm irreparably flawed, etc, etc. Even if following my fears that way feels scary, eventually I reach a point where I realize my fears are absurd, that of course I'm loved and loveable and that I just need to find something to do to keep my mind off of it for a few hours. Usually a big hug and kiss when he returns quiets those demons up pretty quick. On the other hand, if you follow your fears and they don't seem so irrational, that's something that you need to discuss more. For example, if I feel insecure about my husband being intimate with someone else and the fears center around her being a better lover or him not loving me as much as he used to--totally my hangups. But if he stopped using protection without informing me first, went out of his way to compare me unfavorably to his new girlfriend, or tried to use his upbringing as a bullshit excuse to perform certain sexual acts with her but not me--doing those things are physically dangerous and/or emotionally cruel. It seems like she's disregarding your safety and emotional well-being because she knows she can get away with it right now because you'll file it under "personal baggage" and continue to put up with it.
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  #35  
Old 03-29-2011, 11:36 AM
TruckerPete TruckerPete is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detritus View Post
It seems like she's disregarding your safety and emotional well-being because she knows she can get away with it right now because you'll file it under "personal baggage" and continue to put up with it.
This, especially.
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  #36  
Old 03-29-2011, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TruckerPete View Post
This, especially.
Yup.

People keep beating me to agreeing with other people. I decided this time to just double agree.

Also, you may not feel confident in trusting your gut, but the guts of numerous people who are pro-polyamory are saying the same thing. I'm married and have a boyfriend, so I have every reason to be on your wife's side, but I don't like what I'm seeing here.
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Last edited by Penny; 03-29-2011 at 12:02 PM.
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  #37  
Old 03-29-2011, 02:21 PM
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Also the female hinge of a vee. That's two guts of women in a similar situation. At the very least, is it not worth asking for them to slow down, get tested, and hold off on family time of any sort for another 6 months? Usually NRE is over by then. And ya, use a condom. Keep yourself safe.
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  #38  
Old 03-29-2011, 02:24 PM
TruckerPete TruckerPete is offline
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Three for female hinge of a vee.
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  #39  
Old 03-29-2011, 02:42 PM
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my 'vee' may be in spirit only, but I'd like to add my fourth here... especially as mine is in spirit because of the sheer respect i am showing my partner and the other I love.
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  #40  
Old 03-29-2011, 03:22 PM
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Another female hinge of a MFM V here. Still seeing things a little less harshly (maybe it's my own baggage?!) Hell, I'm rather new here, too, so I hardly have room to question. I feel a little nervous -- am I being too naive? Maybe KIDD "SHOULD" be more upset about some things, but I don't know, maybe he has a remarkable capacity for forgiveness or compassion? Is his wife abusive, or is she just immature? Is the new guy being a creep or is he genuinely interested in building a friendship? How soon is too soon, to jump into love and/or friendship? I'm asking these things because I admit, I have not always been the most healthy person when it comes to relationships. I sometimes get very confused as to what is healthy and what is not. Sometimes I want a friend so badly, I will overlook some pretty rotten behavior, in the hopes that we can grow together. I have had a lot of trouble in the boundary-setting department, in my life -- but sometimes the way people treat me is the way I TAUGHT them to treat me, so I know much of the work is mine to do. Anyway...

I see your wife making mistakes but I know I made some too. In our V, the three of us are learning as we go -- and some great lessons have been learned, a lot of personal growth and growth in our marriage and our friendships has ensued. We have been called to explore our deepest emotions. There have been tremendous opportunities for truth and forgiveness. And lots of self-examination.

KIDD, please encourage your wife to post. Considering the gut reactions of the others on the forum who have been living polyamorously for much longer, I think she could really use the awareness. There is wisdom here -- maybe she could learn from some of our mistakes, and spare you both a lot of pain.
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