Returning to polyamory after being badly hurt. Maybe...

Hello from a former and perhaps once again poly. It has taken me five years to get back to this point and I could certainly use a lot of advice.

I am a 42 year old man and have been married to my wife, The Signal, for ten years. A little about myself--although I live the in US, I spent many years in Canada and the UK. I moved back to the US after my first wife left me. I was considering moving back to the UK when I met The Signal. We had both been very unlucky in love and we bonded immediately. We moved to western New York--she from Chicago, me from California--to work in research.

Early in our marriage, The Signal came out to me as bi. She hadn't had any same-sex relationships in her life and we talked about extramarital activity. It took us some time to work out what we wanted to do, but eventually we decided to try out swinging. The first couple we met were K and E. Long story short (and I will definitely unpack it all eventually) K wanted more from our relationship than just sex. She had been in a number of poly relationships before and suggested that the three of us embark on one. The Signal and I had never been in anything like that before and we sort of agreed to it. I'm not even sure we actually talked much about it, it just happened!

At first things went very well and all three of us seemed very happy. Although there were a lot of issues with boundaries and rules, which although K had dealt with before she had a hard time not wanting to break. All three of us were very aglow with NRE. Unfortunately once our NRE wore off it became clear that K wanted more to do with me than she wanted to do with The Signal. My wife became unhappy with the relationship but didn't want to break it off because she was afraid I would be hurt by the breakup. K's love was very flattering to me but also very suffocating and it became obvious that she wanted me to leave The Signal for her, and that she wanted to leave E for me. I did love K very much but when I was able to step back from what was going on I knew I loved The Signal more, whose steady love and heart I needed more than K's fire and passion. Then K made things very easy for both of us by cheating on us all, me, The Signal, and E.

The Signal and I were very hurt by the whole relationship. We decided to pull back from both poly and swinging. She suggested that we revisit our decision in five years, but I didn't think she was serious about that. Nevertheless I thought often about both K and the poly lifestyle. I wondered whether the pain brought on from our relationship was the result of me actually being mono or just the result of K's behavior. K had always said that I was a natural at being poly, and that I must naturally be oriented that way. I never was very sure. Two years ago I moved elsewhere for a job. That was a disaster and I moved back six months ago. For some reason I then started thinking about the idea of being actively poly again, but I never discussed it with The Signal.

Then recently the five-year anniversary of us breaking up with K came up. The Signal mentioned that to me and we started talking about it. To my surprise she said that she wouldn't mind me going out with another woman, as long as I followed two rules: I had to tell her what was going on, and I wasn't allowed to see K again. Well I didn't have any problem with either of those rules! I told her too that I was OK with her seeing someone else as well. She said she wasn't actively doing so but she had been thinking about going out with a woman again (I told her she could see a man but she wasn't as enthusiastic about that). Over the past couple of weeks we have revisited the idea and we think we are still in agreement.

So now comes the difficult part--well I suppose it might all be difficult. As I say we have both been very unlucky in love. I have no idea where I could find a woman either here or in southern Ontario (where I go on work frequently) who might be interested in poly, either for myself, for her, or for both of us. We were very shy about talking about poly, and nobody outside of the three of us and E knew that The Signal and I were doing this. I'm not particularly experienced in love and relationships and before I met The Signal I really struggled to find someone. I am also rather introverted and shy though occasionally I can shine through.

But most of all we are still carrying scars of our relationship with K. The Signal was really hurt by K pretending to love her but secretly (well in hindsight not so much) wanting to run off with me. She is in all honestly more lesbian than straight and having her first same-sex relationship develop that way did hurt her. For me, it was difficult trying to support K through her many troubles while at the same time balancing my love for her with my need to go slow to support The Signal. At the same time I realize I am stronger for knowing that despite being so, so in love with K I was able to make the right decision and walk away.

So The Signal and I are ready to walk into the light again but we greatly fear being hurt once more. I feel that the first time we tried poly we had not thought about it and were not prepared. Now we know more about it but I am concerned that we again are not mentally prepared. And I also fear looking for someone and not finding anyone, or worse being cheated on for a third time.

If you've gotten this far in reading this thank you. I hope that I can find a good place here.

I understand why you would think it was polyamory that hurt you both, but it seems to me that it was really K's dishonesty and cowgirl leanings, and ultimately her cheating, that did it. It's one thing to take time out from non-monogamy to regroup and reconsider what you want, but polyamory done well shouldn't send you scurrying under a rock for five years to lick your wounds. However, selfish, unkind, lying partners could do a lot of damage.

All that is to say, don't be too discouraged by your experience. At least you've had time to recover, so try not to dwell too much on past hurts. Consider it all a valuable lesson. Perhaps now you will each ask more questions and move more slowly before getting involved with someone. Perhaps you would be better off seeking out the local poly community instead of the swinger community where a lot of pent-up feelings are kept under wraps in the name of recreational sex and to "protect" insecurities (which usually backfires). Perhaps your bullshit detector has improved and you will be better able to judge someone's character and whether they would be more appropriate partners.

Keep coming here to ask questions. And why not invite The Signal to join and post here as well?

As for how to meet compatible people, didn't anyone ever tell you about the secret poly handshake???


Just kidding. There is a group for polyfolk in northern NYS called The Birdcage. Someone who was a member here was a founder but they don't post here anymore and I'm not sure if the organization it is still active, but they have a website where they list some NYS poly groups on their Resource page:

http://www.thebirdcage.org/local_resources.html

There are lots of Canadians into polyamory; we have quite a number of Canadian members here. As for Ontario, there are poly groups in Ottawa and Toronto. Check out: http://polyottawa.com/ and http://polyamorytoronto.ca/.

Gosh, we did go into a corner for five years, didn't we? It really didn't seem like that long. There were so many other things going on in our lives, especially us living apart for 18 months. Despite what The Signal said about a five-year plan I'm not sure we seriously planned to be away that long.

We do fear getting hurt again. Our track record in choosing partners is not good. We both went through bad marriages, mine ending when my ex-wife cheated on me and left me for someone else, hers through abuse. Other than that I went through one totally loveless relationship and she through a couple of self-esteem-draining flings...and that's been it, completely it, for our whole lives, other than our emotionally crushing relationship with K. So as much as I want to believe our BS detector is experienced, I'm all too aware that we have not exactly been great at finding love.

I found a journal I'd written about our relationship with K. I realize that I'd forgotten many of the details. I also didn't realize how bad things actually were, that The Signal and I had almost broken up several times, that K and E were fighting constantly, that The Signal spent a lot of time drinking to ease the pain, that for almost the entire relationship I'd tried to convince The Signal to end things and she kept refusing because she thought I'd then just leave her for K. (I also didn't realize how much of my journal was punctuated by song lyrics. I thought that was a recent development of mine.)

Unfortunately it looks like the Birdcage meetups are dead or on life support. Your link shows the Rochester meetups haven't happened in over two years, and the Buffalo meetups are heading that way. But as you say the Toronto meetups are active. If I can get away from work commitments I will certainly give them a try.

I don't know if The Signal will want to post here. During the relationship with K she posted on a different board, and it didn't go well. (Sigh, did anything?)

Funny you mention the handshake. When I was at a conference two years ago I met a woman who was wearing a T-shirt with a big parrot on it. I was DYING to ask her and I just couldn't!

Hello and welcome to the forum,
I hope you find what your looking for to make your decision.

OnceAndFuture said:

Unfortunately it looks like the Birdcage meetups are dead or on life support.

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Confirmed, although it looks like there is more going on up north by you than down south by me.

OnceAndFuture said:

Funny you mention the handshake. When I was at a conference two years ago I met a woman who was wearing a T-shirt with a big parrot on it. I was DYING to ask her and I just couldn't!

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Might Also be a good way to find a Jimmy Buffet fan,
Never had the parrot thing explained, was that a birdcage thing as well?
When I joined them it was being discussed that it may condense due to lack of participation.

drgnfly said:

Never had the parrot thing explained, was that a birdcage thing as well?.

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I had heard that the parrot was a polyamorous symbol ("Polly Parrot"). A little more ambiguous than an infinity symbol. My polydar is not particularly well developed; a little symbolism would be nice for those of us not in the know!

Yeah, the parrot symbology is just a play on the "Polly" being a parrot thing. I think that the heart and infinity sign combined is a much better symbol for polyamory than a stupid parrot. My guess is that the parrot thing is why they named their group The Birdcage.

Well I think the trappings of polyamory are developing quickly and maybe it will take a while to settle on symbols. I mean the word polyamory didn't even exist until 1990 (even if the concept did); in my field of study that is a very short time. I have to admit before our relationship with K, The Signal and I really didn't know anything about polyamory and I wouldn't say we'd been living under rocks. So maybe people try signals and symbols that don't work out, I guess. It does make us feel a little more alone to not see others like us in this life, at least away from places online.

nycindie said:

Yeah, the parrot symbology is just a play on the "Polly" being a parrot thing. I think that the heart and infinity sign combined is a much better symbol for polyamory than a stupid parrot. My guess is that the parrot thing is why they named their group The Birdcage.

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Yes the parrot seems to be a strong theme on that sight. The play on word's makes sense in a way. I agree the infinite love symbol is much better. Someone bearing one isn't definitely poly, but it's more universally known then other symbols I've heard of.

Hi there - My boyfriend and I are new to the poly world. Thank you for sharing your story. This is one of my fears- opening our hearts to someone and having them hurt us. But you can gain without taking a little risk!

We were hurt, yes. But at the same time we realize now how strong our relationship was to survive it. I wouldn't recommend anyone else be tested in this way. Adversity toughens the strong though. Apart we would have been devastated, together we held together. I hope you two are strong as well.

Greetings OnceAndFuture,
Welcome to our forum. Please feel free to lurk, browse, etc.

Thanks for sharing your story, it sounds like you had a real trial by fire and now going back to poly is a leap of faith. I think your best bet is to take it slow this time around, and keep the good folks here updated on how things are going. That way we can give you advice as you go along.

Glad you could join us.
Sincerely,
Kevin T., "official greeter"

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Welcome aboard!

Sorry to hear that your first foray into this life was so hurtful. There is a bit of living and learning to do in any relationship. It was very daunting for me because I get quickly attached to people and it was very hurtful when things did not work out right. Wonderful that you are willing to dip your toe back into the pool!

Hi, Once and Future.

Sorry your first foray into poly was so painful. I went through something very similar when my ex h and I first Opened our marriage in 1999. We had been together since 1974. I knew I was always poly, but never had a word for it til then. We'd had a mono relationship since I was 19 and he was 21.

Like the Signal, I am bi, and I'd never had an actual romantic relationship with a woman. I'd had a couple threeway sex sessions in college, that was it. I also really like men and I'd get crushes all the time, but I never cheated.

So, like you 2, when we opened, we were Unicorn Hunters, looking for a hot bi babe (HBB), "girl to share." For anyone new reading this-- don't do that!! 3ways of FMF is not the way to do poly. Especially when a couple specifically goes looking for someone to share, to do it together. If it happens organically, that's much different.

Like your experience, the "girl" we found to share was more into my husband than me. She wasn't actually bi at all, although she first told us she was. In fact, she didn't trust women at all.

So despite the poly idea supposed to be for me to explore dating women, it ended up my ex h and this woman falling deeply in love. The told me they were soul mates. He wanted to move her in with us and our 3 kids after 2 months of a relationship! I was devastated, depressed, envious, you name it.

We had given each other veto power (I also don't recommend this). So I told my ex he had to end it, although I said they could remain friends. Well, that didn't work. He was extremely resentful. They carried a torch for each other for years, until he and I finally broke up in late 2008. Then they got together, and are still a couple! And mono.

Anyway, I healed from our ignorant attempt at "poly." When the disaster struck, I went on Zoloft for a year, my ex and I had a year of couples counseling, and I went to individual counseling for 3 years.

I've now been practicing polyamory happily for 7 years, with a female partner at my side. She and I DATE SEPARATELY. We are both bi, but we aren't interested in 3way sex, we both date men (or occasionally a woman) of our own choosing. Much better than what I did with my ex!

Back in 1999 the only handbook on poly was The Ethical Slut. Now there is also a website called more than two, and a book of the same name, and another book called Opening Up. Poly should not be entered into lightly, with little forethought. It is much too complicated for that. So, read up!

Once again, I do NOT recommend you still seeking a woman to share. Go get you a woman. And Signal can get her own. Get on OK Cupid (free dating site). That is where I found my partner and all the men I have dated since. Each of you make your own profile. Write a good profile, emphasize you are poly, and answer a good bunch of their questions to help you find a match. Keep the age range open. You might have more luck finding women who are past the age of intense parenting.

And, try to be easy, keep your expectations low. Protect your heart. I've had to kiss a lot of frogs to find people who I really click with. Lots of first one and done dates, but also I have had several good solid enjoyable relationships along the way. I don't expect to find another person as perfect for me as my partner miss pixi. But I do enjoy poly very much, the fun, the sex, the cuddles and laughs and dates. And just learning what makes people tick, the social aspects. I wish you and your wife luck!

nycindie said:

polyamory done well shouldn't send you scurrying under a rock for five years to lick your wounds. However, selfish, unkind, lying partners could do a lot of damage.

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Sadly, there's no way to know, going in, whether poly is being done well or badly by another person or couple. The man I was seeing had had an open marriage and been poly for well over a decade. He said all the right things, but in the end, his wife had never seen him fall in love with someone in real life, he'd never had a relationship longer than 18 months, and although they technically have no vetoes, she started making things steadily more difficult, until I broke up with him--a decision he didn't respect, and pushed and pulled for another 19 months, trying to maintain some connection, but refusing to address his wife's disrespect and games.

These were the experienced poly people. And I had known him for several years beforehand, and thought he could never do such a thing.

Magdlyn--I think we are heading in the direction you suggest. Not that I don't think an FFM triad can be successful, but the way ours happened affected The Signal in particular in such a way that I don't think it could work for us now. I think I will explain more in my journal.

I will probably go on OKCupid at some point, when I have a better understanding of what I am looking for. I am a little nervous about going back to online dating. Back between the time I divorced my ex and met The Signal I once sent out close to 100 messages, winks (or whatever they were called), or emails on one site without getting a single response--I was putting some thought and effort into them too, so it was a bit of a time suck as well as a hit to my self esteem. Had a little better luck on a different website but still spent 18 mostly fruitless months there too. Then when The Signal and I decided to go swinging we sent out I think six messages and got three responses. So the dynamic is a little different out there for single men (or man-seeking-metamour). I'll never know unless I try though. At least K's love gave me more confidence in myself than I had before.

I am amused by the age issue. My (step)kids are in their late teens but around here people my age usually have kids older than we did. I remember going to a PTA meeting where several people asked me what I taught at the school...obviously I wasn't old enough to be a parent! So I will be looking for someone older, someone younger, or someone childless.

WhatHappened said:

Sadly, there's no way to know, going in, whether poly is being done well or badly by another person or couple. The man I was seeing had had an open marriage and been poly for well over a decade. He said all the right things, but in the end, his wife had never seen him fall in love with someone in real life, he'd never had a relationship longer than 18 months, and although they technically have no vetoes, she started making things steadily more difficult, until I broke up with him--a decision he didn't respect, and pushed and pulled for another 19 months, trying to maintain some connection, but refusing to address his wife's disrespect and games.

These were the experienced poly people. And I had known him for several years beforehand, and thought he could never do such a thing.

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That was very true with K and E. K had been in a number of poly relationships while she had been married to E (although she initially lied about that). But all throughout the relationship they were honestly the ones who acted like this had never happened to them before. K kept making rules then breaking them, and E would go from "insanely jealous" to "if I ignore it, it will go away" at the drop of a hat. A couple times K actually said to me, "Are you sure you haven't done this before?"

In lurking on this board before I posted I saw a couple of people writing that they wouldn't go into a relationship with an inexperienced person again. Honestly in my experience I'm not sure it matters so much. Every relationship, mono or poly, pulls up unexpected emotions. What matters is how we deal with them.

OnceAndFuture said:

In lurking on this board before I posted I saw a couple of people writing that they wouldn't go into a relationship with an inexperienced person again. Honestly in my experience I'm not sure it matters so much. Every relationship, mono or poly, pulls up unexpected emotions. What matters is how we deal with them.

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I agree. I'd actually be more leery of becoming involved with someone who had a history of many poly relationships that ended badly than someone new to poly who had done the research and self-work but had no or few poly relationships.