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  #31  
Old 04-01-2011, 06:37 PM
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Carma Carma is offline
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Please don't give up. You've shown your heart here, and I've seen its purity and strength. You and Jen have a love that is rare. Be strong -- you can create a love life that fits you both. You are worth it, both of you.
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  #32  
Old 04-01-2011, 09:32 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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I think to be fair..... Beo has tried very hard to give this a shot....its very painful and he doesn't see a huge up side....only more pain and drama. I don't think any of us can extrapolate his meaning of the word "everything" as it relates to his wife. I know when I was struggling...in a lot of pain.... not sleeping well... the exact or perfect word didn't always reach the screen.....and what I may have typed 3 hrs ago I wouldn't have type later. Lets not forget he/they dated for some period of time then got married and had some kids and now the game has changed...he is asked to adapt... change a core belief.....no small task.

This idea that people aren't responsible for others happiness is true. What about responsible for others pain??? If others aren't connected to happiness then why do Poly people need "others" to feel happy or Loved/complete. So the converse is actually true.... take away the "other(s)" and now someone else isn't happy.

Hey I learned a lot in my experience....I don't want to share...I don't share a car ....in fact I have several non of which I share, Clothes, house, pets,.... the most intimate person in my life...never again. Here's another big thing I don't have to. There are millions of people ...male and female struggling to make one relationship work well let alone several. And if I'm willing to devote my time and focus to one person I think I deserve the same in return. It's become a self worth issue for me. Time and energy, money are all a zero sum game.....want a better relationship with a spouse or partner.... not going to get it by investing in some other outside relationship.

Jen said she was ok with you exploring a second relationship... How would she have been if you had found someone and sprung it on here in the exact same way?? In my situation and I have very limited experience so really doesn't mean much but I think my wife agreed to out of fairness and as way of maintaining or continue what she wanted to have. The pain or discomfort would have been offset by her pleasure. In this poly/ mono dynamic that offset is sometimes hard to find for the mono person.

I know if I had come home lets say a yr or 2 after our second child and pitched this I would have gotten lamp thrown at my head. And in all seriousness that would have been great for everyone at the time. Not the lamp.... the being poly on my part .

She admitted very early in our journey that because of her slight weight gain after the children that she would have felt very threatened had I approached with a similar request. Understandable and reasonable and no amount of spin would have convince her otherwise. I may have been much happier had I explored an outside relationship..... fuck I know I would have.... but at what cost...

Trust your gut....if it feels wrong ...do something that feels better or good. It doesn't matter if the rest of the planet is poly if it feels bad to you then move in a direction that feels better..... Good luck to both of you ... D
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  #33  
Old 04-01-2011, 10:07 PM
JenAgain JenAgain is offline
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Sneacail.. I do relate to your post, and I do feel a lot of pressure to not only make myself happy but be responsible for making sure that he is happy. It seems like there is absolutely nothing I can do to bring him out of his funk, but I'm not giving up. Even "going back" wont make him happy because he knows how I feel about poly.

Carma, I agree whole-heartedly.

Dingedheart, while I also relate to your post in some manners, though I think what you see in poly and what I see are different. I don't, and have never had any problems with our marriage. I've never tried to seek something better or thought that we required something to spice it up. This isn't something I want to do to fix anything that I viewed as wrong. I love my husband dearly, and I do view him as the most important person in my life, but am I not also important?

I did say I would be okay with him exploring a second relationship. I never said that I thought it would be easy for me either, I don't expect it would be, but I also know how to give myself positive affirmations and deal with negative feelings. I have been in relationships before that were not monogamous, and it wasn't with my consent either. However, it was never the infidelity that bothered me, it was always the lying. The bottom line is I probably would have reacted differently than him, because I am not mono-minded.

The problem we've come to is that when trusting our guts, we both have come to different conclusions. For me, it's that I feel I need that freedom. For him, he feels that giving me that freedom takes away from his self worth. However we both feel that we have a very strong and rare type of relationship and we never want to be with out the other, so with time and probably counseling we will find an answer.

That said, I have been in and out of counseling most of my life and actually go now. I contacted a marriage counselor but she didn't want to see us without permission from my current counselor so I will be discussing things with her at my next appointment and we'll go from there. In the meantime I'll keep doing the best I can at showing hubby how much I love him, and how important he is to me.
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  #34  
Old 04-01-2011, 10:27 PM
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SNeacail SNeacail is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JenAgain View Post
Even "going back" wont make him happy because he knows how I feel about poly.
Going back usually doesn't work for exactly that reason. However, slowing down, taking a "time-out" and just being (no more talking or discussions on the subject for a while) can help regulate some of the emotions. Schedule some dates for just the two of you 1-2 a week.

I hate change and will usually flip out with last minute changes unless I have been able to prepare myself ahead of time. I will fight new ideas if it means an immediate change, but once I have had time to process some stuff, I can address some of the problems I see with the new idea and try to incorporate the general premiss of the idea into a working solution. It is also possible to get overloaded with a subject and then it's - "STOP! THE BRAIN IS FULL, NO MORE, SYSTEMS ARE CRASHING."
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  #35  
Old 04-02-2011, 11:59 AM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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hi jen

If your marriage is good, not trying to spice things up, not trying to fix things.....what are the reasons....and yes you are important and I;m sure he thinks that otherwise he wouldn't have put himself through that. I dont want to put words in anyone's mouth but when we first started it felt like my soul was being ripped out....I know that sounds overly dramatic...but that's the only way I could describe it.....affirmations didn't really help me.....I can tell him what did if he wants .....pm me.

I think you are doing a very smart thing by getting your counselors involved. And I agree with SN about taking a break...not going to hurt.
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  #36  
Old 04-02-2011, 02:04 PM
Beodude123 Beodude123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
If your marriage is good, not trying to spice things up, not trying to fix things.....what are the reasons

And I agree with SN about taking a break...not going to hurt.
Maybe this is why I have a hard time accepting it? I don't know. Obviously something was wrong, otherwise she wouldn't feel so right after finding poly. I'm pretty sure it wasn't something in the marriage, but I don't know what was.




It's hard to take a break from talking about it. It's pretty much all I think about at work. This eventually leads to about an hour or so where I don't know what to do with my hands. I'll shake them, move my fingers around... Just something to help get rid of all my emotional energy. If I don't talk about it, it seems to stay around for a lot longer, and it keeps me in the funk.

It's what I think about at home a lot too. I pretty much have no refuge from my brain, and it's absolutely exhausting. The only times I'm really not thinking about it at all, is when I'm driving my RX-8, or when I have so much work to do I don't have time to think about anything else.



Haha I did like the thing about "quitting cold turkey" though. Kinda funny.

Last edited by Beodude123; 04-02-2011 at 02:06 PM.
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  #37  
Old 04-02-2011, 06:30 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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Originally Posted by Beodude123 View Post
Obviously something was wrong, otherwise she wouldn't feel so right after finding poly. I'm pretty sure it wasn't something in the marriage, but I don't know what was.
While I can't know what's actually going on in the intricacies of your relationship, I disagree strongly with the premise of this statement. I can have a job I absolutely love, and then find a hobby I love and that doesn't mean that there was anything whatsoever wrong with my life or my job. It just means that I'm a complex person with room for more than one thing in my life.

The big question, of course, is time... do I really have time to commit myself to both my my job and to a casual hobby (for the sake of the analogy a tertiary partner) or a serious hobby (secondary partner) or even a second job (co-primary)? It might take a lot of juggling and a lot of honest assessment, maybe some other pursuits in my life have to be set aside.

But the desire to try new things doesn't, doesn't, *doesn't* mean that I had some hidden problem in my life, that I love my job any less or that there's anything wrong!!
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  #38  
Old 04-02-2011, 06:36 PM
JenAgain JenAgain is offline
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Right, it wasn't something in the marriage. I didn't say, hey, I feel like I need something else and go looking for it. It landed in our laps, and I was like "Wow, why didn't that feel wrong? Why do I feel like a part of me that was missing has been filled?" It's not that I ever knew something was missing, or felt like something was missing, until it wasn't. It was like being wrapped in comfort, at least until it started affecting hubby negatively.

After that, all of a sudden, my whole relationship/sexual history made sense. I would be lying if I said that it didn't increase my sex drive something fierce, because it did. That made ME feel better about that part of our marriage, but I wouldn't consider it a problem before. Hubby never complained about the infrequency and I did everything I could to try and increase it, but it was difficult. I always assumed it was hormones, fatigue from the kids, etc. It certainly wasn't hubby! I never felt the sex itself was lacking in any way, I've always enjoyed it thoroughly.

So, after some discussion this morning, we're going to try and take a week off of "poly". J is on leave, I'm not going to invite any of my/our male friends over, we aren't going to come and visit the forum, just to have a reprieve and try and give ourselves some time that's just us again. So if we don't respond for a while, that's why!
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  #39  
Old 04-02-2011, 06:41 PM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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Originally Posted by JenAgain View Post
So, after some discussion this morning, we're going to try and take a week off of "poly". J is on leave, I'm not going to invite any of my/our male friends over, we aren't going to come and visit the forum, just to have a reprieve and try and give ourselves some time that's just us again. So if we don't respond for a while, that's why!
I think this is a *wonderful* idea. You shouldn't build additions to a house that doesn't have a strong foundation (I am all about the analogies today, apparently). Take as much time as you both need, yeah?
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  #40  
Old 04-06-2011, 01:39 PM
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MrFarFromRight MrFarFromRight is offline
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Originally Posted by Beodude123 View Post
Love myself? Not really sure. Maybe?

I know I drew a lot of self worth from being Jen's "everything". I felt like I was able to do it all. Now I can't, and it pretty much bear blasted my self confidence. I tend to draw a lot of worth from my relationships, and in acceptance in general. At work, I feel good about myself when I let people out early, and take care of them. Same thing with Jen, but on a waaaaay different level.

I try and talk to myself when I get anxious, but it doesn't seem to work most of the time. Even talking with Jen just seems to bandaid the problem... I feel like I've hit a wall of progress.
Hi, Beodude! You won't read this until you get back from your holiday-from-poly, but since I only get to connect to Internet 2-3 days in a row each week, I'll reply now. What I'd like is to sit down and talk to you leisurely, immediate 2-way (or more, if Jen were in on it) communication...

I was going to comment last week on more of the comment quoted above, but the person with the key wanted to go home for the weekend and got angry at me for holding her up for even 8 minutes. [I can't blame her: when I do get on-line, I'm rarely finished by closing time, so this isn't the first time that I've kept her waiting.] So I sent what I already had done, gathered my things, and scooted!

Now, 5 days later, I'm not sure exactly what I wanted to add. I know that I was thinking of a gentle joke: "Hey, Beo, I hope that you're not planning to let Jen out early!" But only to illustrate that you're both keepers. There's a bedrock of strong Love there, and it's warming to read how much you want Jen to be happy... even when it hurts.

Now - because of something that happened since my last log-in - I want to comment on your "I tend to draw a lot of worth from my relationships, and in acceptance in general. At work, I feel good about myself when I let people out early, and take care of them."

The thing is, I'm a bit like this myself: I don't think that I get my feeling of self-worth from others, but I certainly look after others more than I look after myself. I'm a pretty good cook, and I love to cook for others. But if it's just me... I might just cook some pasta and open a tetra-brick of supermarket tomato sauce. Sometimes I don't even bother to chop up one clove of garlic! (A salad per day is a must, but it's usually much simpler than the amazing salads with improvised and irrepeatable sauces that I prepare at friends' houses.)

Anyway, I thought that I might be getting a visit this week and spent part of 3 days in a cleaning and tidying blitz to get the house quarter-way presentable. Today (via e-mail) I found out that my visitor probably won't be showing up... but my living-room is sooooooooo much more comfortable (for me) than it's been in weeks! (OK: tell the truth - in months!) [Bachelors!!!]

OK! Maybe this is what I wanted to comment on last week: 'being Jen's "everything".' I commented on something like this on another thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFarFromRight View Post
Try playing this game: Imagine yourself wanting to be the one she shares all her pleasures with, getting jealous whenever she wants to go on a shopping trip with one of her friends, dancing every dance with her at every party you ever go to, getting upset when she laughs at other people's jokes (I actually knew someone like this with his girlfriend - my ex.) There are very few people in this world who don't have do deal with jealousy at some time, so you're not alone. [...]

It hurts, I know. And I really was not trying to be flippant with that game suggestion. It might help to put things in perspective. It hurts and it's going to hurt for a while. But you love her and her happiness means a lot to you. And your happiness means a lot to her. So you're going to be gentle and patient with each other... and hopefully grow closer through the painful growing process.
I think that this applies to you and Jen, too: You can't be somebody everything! If Jen wanted you to be her everything ("Tie my shoes for me, Honey!", "Oh, please don't go off to work today! I feel completely lost when you're not here..." etc. etc.), you'd soon get sick of her.
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If I can't dance, I want no part in your Revolution.
- Emma Goldman Anarchist and Polyamorous par excellence
The person who says something is impossible should not interrupt the person who is doing it.
- old Chinese proverb
And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.
~ Anais Nin
I'd rather have a broken heart / Than have a heart of stone.
- from "Boundless Love (A Polyamory Song)" by Jimmy Hollis i Dickson

Last edited by MrFarFromRight; 04-06-2011 at 02:41 PM. Reason: I removed unnecessary (and not-to-the-point) paragraph
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