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  #81  
Old 03-15-2011, 02:21 PM
Fidelia Fidelia is offline
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The cause of the wife's behaviour is not dingedheart's stated concern. Helping his children (specifically his daughter) deal with the damage caused by that behavior is his concern.

Whether the images are Photoshopped collages, she was forced into posing by a horde of alien Pygmies, or she paid double the studio rate to have them done as Glamourshots doesn't change the fact that their daughter has been harmed.

From what I read here, dinged doesn't know or care to know much about bdsm, and shouldn't have his nose rubbed in it if he's not interested. Concerned members of the community have already provided him with links if he wants to learn more about it.

So if the discussion is going to tangent into what could have caused the mother to engage in that behavior, I would like to request that tangent be moved to a separate thread.

Last edited by Fidelia; 03-15-2011 at 02:24 PM.
  #82  
Old 03-15-2011, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fidelia View Post
The cause of the wife's behaviour is not dingedheart's stated concern. Helping his children (specifically his daughter) deal with the damage caused by that behavior is his concern.

Whether the images are Photoshopped collages, she was forced into posing by a horde of alien Pygmies, or she paid double the studio rate to have them done as Glamourshots doesn't change the fact that their daughter has been harmed.

From what I read here, dinged doesn't know or care to know much about bdsm, and shouldn't have his nose rubbed in it if he's not interested. Concerned members of the community have already provided him with links if he wants to learn more about it.

So if the discussion is going to tangent into what could have caused the mother to engage in that behavior, I would like to request that tangent be moved to a separate thread.
This.

DH. The reason I requested you to not show the photo's to others... I mentioned in my earlier post... because of the later damage that would do, or the very real possibility of adding complications now to the emotional/mental state of your daughters mother. Not because I think you should care about her emotional state - but because it will impact on your daughter... whether now or in the future.

The reason I think some of the other posters want you to understand the BDSM dynamics is so you can look your daughter in the eye and say "it was your mother's choice to behave like that - there is nothing wrong with it - even though it is not my choice of behaviour and I don't like it" and be convincing about it.

for the sake of showing my perspective... i left my marriage three years ago by running away on a stormy night.. my then 11 yr old daughter stood watching me run away even as her father was ripping my hair from my scalp as I twisted from his grip... just prior to that she had been screaming at him to "stop hurting mummmy" as he held me prisoner, physically assaulting me. for the years prior to that she and the other children had witnessed other, worse events, her older sister had been a victim of similar and more terrifying psychological abuses by her father...

This daughter though, was her father's princess... and it was not until after I left and began winning the various court actions against him that his behaviour towards her changed and she started receiving the same treatment. I would have been more than justified to tell her explicitly what else her sister and I had been through at his hands... why she was only allowed to see him on certain days...why sometimes weeks and months went past when she didn't see him, why she has her own lawyer... and her lawyers mobile number for contact if needed... BUT I DIDN'T... why?
BECAUSE even though she hated her dad for what he had done to me and her sister (that she saw) - she still loved him. under her anger, and her confusion was this great grief... she still needed him to be her dad. So he is. and I struggle every time she is there, even with all the precautions... even watching right now as the signs of another storm building are starting to show again... i still bite my tongue, and encourage their relationship while i protect her at the same time - it is the finest tightrope I walk... but I do it because it is what she needs me to do.

One day she will make her own decision about whether to continue to have him in her life... she is already showing the signs of reaching that decision in her own mind... she has yet to explain it to her heart... I can't do it for her, it has to be her choice, made for her own reasons... not influenced by things outside her control, or (angry/revengeful/hurtful/sad) thoughts from the most important person (outside of herself) to her...

She needs neutrality from you about this situation.
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  #83  
Old 03-15-2011, 03:21 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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magdlyn,

you said the use of these words was cathartic, How?

You misunderstood the question. How would you "magdlyn" tell your 12/13yr old daughter about these photo's of "you" were in the photo's. You have to explain to your daughter, mother, sisters what they're looking at in emails and pictures.

Tit for tat ....is that code for something I'm again unaware of. Not really thinking in those terms just don't feel like bending to find understanding for their behavior. I feel I've done more than enough work on all of this. I in no way want him involved in conversations with my daughter....would freak her out further. I was just commenting on the complete and total lack of responsibility and perhaps concern. Or if there was concern it slipped bye me.

I think we are of a similar age because I to saw playboy mags in the 60's never saw bdsm photo's .....nothing close to these. Usually girl next door type shots .....not clumslut's bound to a bench being pissed on.

Do you think your parents had that type of a relationship after discovering the de sade book?? What if you discovered polaroids of your mother displayed like a christmas ham in that book?

Her perception of her mother has been destroyed.

Awkward and uncomfortable doesn't capture the moment... pain....just pain .....your family ever lose a pet dog or cat? Its just emotional pain.
You ask what questions has she asked....how could she do this? Why would she or anyone want to be hit with a stick? How could she choose this over our family? How can she use these word and I get in trouble for saying bitch or hell. etc,etc...

hey ...need to find one of those hook devices...what are they called? It looks to be 8-10 inches long... aluminum most likely cast not machined...eye on the long end.... could be stainless steel but that seems expensive and unnecessary.

Thanks D
  #84  
Old 03-15-2011, 04:48 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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viablealtenative

Thank you thoughts

I can not finds any sympathy for the mindset or the people involved. They have in addition to their strange dialog had the misfortune to mention me in a condescending way. Big fucking mistake on their part.

Sorry, these posts have come in too fast and with all the other things I'm doing I'm way too slow to respond to each and in detail.

It seems counter to argue the their is nothing wrong with any of these actions and its a release, cathartic, power exchange, etc...nothing to be ashamed of but for god sakes don't let anyone else see them...it could cause further damage. Could push wife over edge.... what edge? Its just good clean/dirty fun...whats the problem .... I don't think you can have both sides of this issue. Its not shameful but I'd be ashamed if people knew or saw what I've done.

One of my main concerns going down this road in the beginning was to keep the kids out of it.... Wow seems like a fucking joke now. I didn't want them to be unnecessarily burdened by stupid shit their parents think they "need". Or some sort of experiment that is found not to work.
Well Fuck.... poly seems like a fucking joke now.... cake walk.


Rp

How in a discussion on self -empowerment with a young girl going through puberty are these photo's and emails of mother help make that case. A self -empowerment photo essay for a young girl would look little different in teen vogue.

Fidelia

Thank you .... you are right. Way to fucking tired to research this topic. Don't care what anyone does with in their own homes....beat the living shit out of each other ...god bless you all ...... I'm a builder I can build you the sound proof rooms.....done it dozens of times for home theaters.

Would like to see the herd of pygmies in their next foray into this work....
fuck now I got that in my head
thanks again for your support. D
  #85  
Old 03-15-2011, 05:24 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fidelia View Post
The cause of the wife's behaviour is not dingedheart's stated concern. Helping his children (specifically his daughter) deal with the damage caused by that behavior is his concern.

...

From what I read here, dinged doesn't know or care to know much about bdsm, and shouldn't have his nose rubbed in it if he's not interested. Concerned members of the community have already provided him with links if he wants to learn more about it.

So if the discussion is going to tangent into what could have caused the mother to engage in that behavior, I would like to request that tangent be moved to a separate thread.
Fidelia, I appreciate your concern, but if you read dinged last post he did ask me specific Qs about BDSM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dingedheart View Post
magdlyn,

you said the use of these words was cathartic, How?
Not just the words, but in general, being dominated, and getting in "subspace," while it looks painful and morally degrading from the outside, I have learned that it is actually a peaceful euphoric place. And being beaten til one cries, it's a good release of tension sometimes. Of course, again, this is consensual. I would hate to be beaten against my will by an abusive partner. Totally different thing. For me, being beaten by consensual agreement releases endorphins and turns pain into pleasure (orgasm).


Quote:
You misunderstood the question. How would you "magdlyn" tell your 12/13yr old daughter about these photo's of "you" were in the photos? You have to explain to your daughter, mother, sisters what they're looking at in emails and pictures.
Well, I shudder to have to contemplate that scenario, but I guess I'd say something like a prev poster did, that different people have different sexual tastes.Some games adults play look bad from the outside but are actually fun and even healthy to do when mutually agreed upon.

Quote:
Tit for tat ....is that code for something I'm again unaware of. Not really thinking in those terms just don't feel like bending to find understanding for their behavior. I feel I've done more than enough work on all of this.
Well, I just meant if YOU understood BDSM more, you could explain those pix to your daughter more clearly.

Quote:
I think we are of a similar age because I to saw playboy mags in the 60's never saw bdsm photo's .....nothing close to these. Usually girl next door type shots .....not clumslut's bound to a bench being pissed on.
No, you're right, but to a sheltered 1960s kid even Playboy pix looked kinky. The actual kink was more in those books I mentioned.

Quote:
Do you think your parents had that type of a relationship after discovering the de sade book??
No, not really. My mom was very literary and open minded tho, and I am thinking back then was when they first started legally publishing de Sade and so she was curious. Fanny Hill is 18th century bordello erotica, also a literary curiosity.

Quote:
What if you discovered polaroids of your mother displayed like a christmas ham in that book?
LOL Xmas ham. I'd've been shocked and disgusted of course. Heck, when I was 22 she admitted to being involved in an extra marital affair and that shocked me enough, tho I tried not to show it. My dad wasnt satisfying her, and she had her fling.

Anyway, I dont mean to "rub your nose" in BDSM information. I feel hurt to have been accused of that, if it's not obvious already. I am a child advocate and very sorry your daughter was exposed to all this at such a young age. I am just trying to help.



Quote:
Her perception of her mother has been destroyed.

Awkward and uncomfortable doesn't capture the moment... pain....just pain .....your family ever lose a pet dog or cat? Its just emotional pain.
You ask what questions has she asked....how could she do this? Why would she or anyone want to be hit with a stick?
Here is a specific BDSM question that I attempted to answer (despite Fidelia saying it was off topic.) Being beaten causes endorphins to kick in, like a runner's high, or how women stand labor pains. The body releases its own opiates when confronted with pain. Labor pains or consensual pain in BDSM feels much different than say, breaking your leg accidentally. If your daughter is athletic at all, I'm sure she's willingly suffered pain in sports sometimes.

Quote:
How could she choose this over our family?
Well, kids in the teen years find out gradually and painfully that their parents are HUMAN, flawed human beings. They make mistakes, they act in less than rational and unselfish ways at times, they carry pain and hangups and do stupid careless things, just like kids do.

Quote:
How can she use these word and I get in trouble for saying bitch or hell. etc,etc...
Haha, well, 2 people in private can say whatever they want. Anyone could get in trouble for saying asswhore (or whatever) out on the street!
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  #86  
Old 03-16-2011, 01:51 AM
Fidelia Fidelia is offline
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Magdlyn: I had absolutely no offense intended toward anyone, certainly not toward you personally. I hope you know I think you rock.

In my last post, I was just calling it like I saw it. Iím not always right, but I am always honest. If dingedheart wants and needs to know about the power and euphoria of subspace and power exchange, sub frenzy, etc. I have no problem whatsoever with that. I have been interpreting much of dingedheartís commentary on bdsm as mostly the venting of a basically vanilla (straight-up) hetero male with a severely wounded heart, and his questions as primarily rhetorical venting rather than actually seeking to understand the bdsm life (example: the going day rate of a slave). Iíve been wrong before. If Iím wrong here, I sincerely apologize to any offended party.

Like you, Mags, Iím only trying to help. I thought I saw the thread about to tangent off onto why the mother might behave the way she has. IMO, that tangent doesnít help dinged help his daughter. It is important, no doubt, but doesnít much help the immediate situation on the ground at his house now. So I said so. I cannot apologize for that, but I certainly regret any hurt I may have caused.
  #87  
Old 03-16-2011, 10:42 AM
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Actually, understanding why the mother behaved as she had might help the daughter a lot. It might help her father respond in some way other than spewing hate and anger. However well-deserved, that's not going to be what's best for the daughter, and what's best for the daughter is the most important thing.

So, I strongly disagree that it is off-topic.
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  #88  
Old 03-16-2011, 04:04 PM
dingedheart dingedheart is offline
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Flamkat,

Thanks for your reply yesterday, I didn't see it until after I finished my own reply by then it got too late.

Couple thoughts.... how does it make sense for me to make the case that her mothers behavior is fine or normal when her mother is huddle in a corner 200 miles away threatening suicide. Her current actions (wifes) are sending some message....it not the loud and proud.

Reading your story about the abusive relationship was very sad....you have my deepest sympathy for all that you family has had to endure.

Did the "professionals" advise you not relay some of the violence that happened to you and the older daughter??? I would think her safety would trump the need for a father figure....lets not forget the truth....it is the truth. I can see how this would be a very difficult balance for you....I have been deferring to the "pro's" on stuff like that. I have been advised many times not to personally attack "mom" verbally because they are genetically 1/2 mom so they would feel some of the personal attack.

A lot of anger originally was to judgment. Recording these actions and words.... beyond stupid....

Who cares why tiger woods thought it would be a good idea to do all the things he did. Thousands of bad decisions....Why would he want to risk his entire world for hookers.....I don't care....His wife doesn't care...his kid dont care. Bill Clinton President of the USA leader of the free world thinks it was a good idea to fuck around with a intern what a fucking moron....I don't care about the excuse they may offer ...... I do know why ...because he/they were only thinking about their own gratification in the moment and not about the commitments they made or the big picture such actions would have.

How long did it take to regain some normalcy if that's possible?

Thanks again Flamekat




Magdlyn

Thanks for you comments.....

to clarify....you said it was "awkward and uncomfortable" in regard to my daughters late night crying and question fest......not about the mechanics of bdsm.

There was one other question I forgot; "why hasn't mom called billy " her brother to talk?? .....good question. ..... not real name.

I know I asked how you would talk to your daughter or children but I don't know whether you have children or not? And what they know of your situation, poly and bdsm


Fidelia,
Thank you for your prospective....And I think you have summarized my mindset. I was half joking about the day rate if there is one... I had a reason for that question. I do want to find and purchase or have fabricated that hook thing...I think I'll do a web search on one of my employee's computer just for fun .....


Penny

My spewing hate and anger is the result of two thoughtless people who up to now seemed to have slithered back into the dark shadows of their dungeon.

I don't get it. Pain, torture, humiliation the mind control.... big disconnect from the loving beautiful images in my head. Hey...I don't get men fucking farm animals ....women being fucked by large dogs or donkeys either... Saw a guy who got off by popping balloons.... wow don't get it...don't care either.... fuck and pop away.
I guess my position is " she " his slave may need to figure out her position on this and then we can discuss with the appropriate professionals whether to integrate that with what is currently being said.

At this time it mostly about the feelings of betrayal and loss of the family
stuff of that nature.


Rp

you had mentioned not to forget my son ....very much agree... You will be happy to know he and I will be going to his first rock/blues concert together... Joe Bonamassa ...My kid is getting into guitar right now. Joe was a child prodigy. I saw him in B.B. kings club when he was 15 or something..10 or 15 yrs ago . I had purchased the ticket long time ago to take my wife. Thought about trading them in to get three and take my daughter as well but remember what you said and scrapped that idea. Boy's night .... steak house and the concert. He and I may go away for spring break just the two of us.

Thanks D
  #89  
Old 03-16-2011, 04:48 PM
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It is fine for you to spew hate and anger here. You have every right to it.

I am not saying your wife's relationship with her bf was healthy. Obviously it was not.

What I'm saying is that spewing hate and anger could be damaging if that is how you respond to your daughter's questions. Sure, it might afford you some commiserations now, but it will bite you both in the ass in the long run.

Your wife is having a nervous breakdown and is possibly suicidal. It goes without saying that she is severely psychologically damaged, and that this damage has roots that go back before the discovery of the photos and emails.
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  #90  
Old 03-16-2011, 04:56 PM
NeonKaos NeonKaos is offline
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DH, she IS still your wife... Have you thought about having her "committed" to a psychiatric medical facility for a 72-hour evaluation? Basically, you petition the court to determine whether she is a danger to herself/others. If someone is "suicidal", that meets the criteria for "danger to self".

I really think it's time for you to get the professionals involved. From what you have shared, it sounds like you can afford the necessary doctors, lawyers, and court fees. Insurance would probably cover some or all of the hospitalization costs.

This thread is venturing beyond the scope of what this forum is here for. This is not a forum for family crisis intervention and YOU, my friend, have a family crisis.

Please get professional help ASAP.
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