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Old 08-01-2014, 03:48 PM
Nox Nox is offline
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Exclamation GF came to me with concerns about new man

My girlfriend, Susan, has been involved in a 3 year online friendship with Eduardo. Recently, he confessed he was interested in her more romantically, and they have begun exploring their feelings and embarking on some sex chats. He is very dominant, and she has enjoyed it so far. She is physically submissive, but ONLY in the bedroom. She would never think of herself as a Sub, and absolutely 100% does not like the mental aspect of it.

However, she came to me last night because she was starting to get worried about some of the things he was doing and asking between interludes. He would ask things like 'where are your boundaries, because I have none.' He'd ask her to watch videos to see which she likes best. He wanted her to send videos of things she likes. This doesn't seem that scary; in fact just the opposite as I think he's just finding where the borders are. Except, when she says it's a turn off to talk about things, he presses. When she says she doesn't like the conversation, he claims she's pushing him away. This has happened with things other than sex talk. Even without meeting her face to face, he already says he wants a life with her and wants to be with her forever and will never leave her and could never be just friends with her. That when she sent him a note about some concerns, he told her that he was wounded.

I only know Eduardo only casually. He does live in the same large town with her. He's an ex-cop. He's fairly charming. He's in his early 50s. I like the guy as far as I know him. But she came to me scared and neither one of us is experienced enough to know if these are red flags where he could be a 'bad guy' or if he's just overexcited and a little clumsy. She is considering dating him in real life, but obviously not if there's a threat to her well-being.

I would appreciate if you have any signs to look for and could provide any advice. Specifically, does he seem dangerous? Are we just overreacting? If he is dangerous, is there a way to diffuse?

(Susan reviewed this for accuracy and added to it, so while I'm not unbiased, this is objective as I can be)
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  #2  
Old 08-01-2014, 05:27 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nox View Post
My girlfriend, Susan, has been involved in a 3 year online friendship with Eduardo. Recently, he confessed he was interested in her more romantically, and they have begun exploring their feelings and embarking on some sex chats. He is very dominant, and she has enjoyed it so far. She is physically submissive, but ONLY in the bedroom. She would never think of herself as a Sub, and absolutely 100% does not like the mental aspect of it.

However, she came to me last night because she was starting to get worried about some of the things he was doing and asking between interludes. He would ask things like 'where are your boundaries, because I have none.' He'd ask her to watch videos to see which she likes best. He wanted her to send videos of things she likes. This doesn't seem that scary; in fact just the opposite as I think he's just finding where the borders are. Except, when she says it's a turn off to talk about things, he presses. When she says she doesn't like the conversation, he claims she's pushing him away. This has happened with things other than sex talk. Even without meeting her face to face, he already says he wants a life with her and wants to be with her forever and will never leave her and could never be just friends with her. That when she sent him a note about some concerns, he told her that he was wounded.

I only know Eduardo only casually. He does live in the same large town with her. He's an ex-cop. He's fairly charming. He's in his early 50s. I like the guy as far as I know him. But she came to me scared and neither one of us is experienced enough to know if these are red flags where he could be a 'bad guy' or if he's just overexcited and a little clumsy. She is considering dating him in real life, but obviously not if there's a threat to her well-being.

I would appreciate if you have any signs to look for and could provide any advice. Specifically, does he seem dangerous? Are we just overreacting? If he is dangerous, is there a way to diffuse?
I assume Susan and Eduardo have never met in person but have only interacted online? Is she interested in online domination? Because some people only do BDSM virtually. It wouldn't work for me but many folks like it.

First of all, if Susan's early warning system is going off, trust that. Our intuition is superior at knowing something is off with another person before our conscious minds. If she is getting a bad feeling about this, that is sufficient.

The whole 'where are your boundaries because I have none' can indicate that person has never done BDSM in real life. 'No boundaries' is fine online where it is all fantasy. Everyone has boundaries in actual meat space, top and bottom alike. Tops are often warned about playing with subs or bottoms who say they have no boundaries because it often means they have no idea what they are doing, what they like, dislike, and what their limits are. It's totally ok, indeed expected to have some fuzzy limits - things one might like but haven't experienced yet - as long as that is communicated and there are safewords or other safety protocols in place. These are called 'soft limits' and are where negotiations happen. Soft limits is where experimentation and pushing boundaries - if that is mutually explicitly agreed upon between play partners! - often happens.

It's not an automatic deal breaker, at least for me. It could just mean inexperience. And we all have to start somewhere. But the other part is really worrisome. When Susan says it is a turn off to talk about things, what does she mean? Like if he is chatting about pissing on her boobs (to pick a more extreme example), and she replies this isn't hot for me and he wants to continue with that theme anyway? Does he listen to her feedback at all? Does she explicitly say, I'm not into piss play, let's chat about something else? Does he ignore that? It's important for subs/bottoms to be very clear with their tops/dominants about their hard limits (no piss is common just to go with my example). It's also important to acknowledge, own and talk about one's desires - guessing about a sub's wants/turn ons without any conversation or feedback is no fun. Doms aren't mind readers.

However, if she's not into it, it's his job to find something else both of them find hot. If he just keeps pressing with what he wants and doesn't take her desires into consideration, that is unacceptable. Domination doesn't mean the dom does whatever the fuck he or she wants. It's more of a dance where the dom leads but there is ebb and flow and interaction between dom and sub. And if tango is a hard limit for the sub, they don't tango.

The refusal to gracefully accept and incorporate feedback is really concerning and, yes, a red flag. It is another red flag to turn the tables and make the feedback about his worth to you, about his feelings in that manner. Just saying 'I don't want to be pissed on' is not pushing someone away. Telling someone about likes/dislikes has nothing to do with that other person. There is no reason why doing so would 'wound' him. It's setting boundaries, hard limits. That's really important and should be treated as the gift of trust and respect it is. This is 'where I have no boundaries' is a super huge red flag. He might mean that literally which is terrifying. Someone who cannot accept restrictions, limits in actual real life is someone you never, ever want to play with, or have any sort of a relationship with.

And, yeah, the whole I love you and never want to live you and we can be only lovers not friends now and yeah, we've never actually met in person yet is worrying at best. That verges on potential stalker.

It could be he is just super clueless about domination and is insecure to boot. He could be utterly harmless. But I see why Susan is concerned. She has good reason to be.

She's interacted with him for 3 years online. Has this type of behavior shown up before? (Not really listening to her, can't handle feedback, denigrates her thoughts, shows insecurity, treats other people poorly, etc.)

She could just end things. Say it's not working out for her. Hopefully he would respect that. It would mean staying away from whatever electronic communities they currently are in (forums, boards, etc.).

She could set up a test of sorts. Ask to do an online sex chat that has a safeword system. Red, yellow, green are common safeword system. Red can means stop the scene/chat immediately with no continuation and go back to regular non-sex/kink conversation. Yellow can mean, I'm not enjoying this part and say why, possibly suggest other topic/action. Green can mean this is hot! please continue! See how he reacts to the suggestion. And if he agrees, use the safewords as they come up for her in the chat, and see how he reacts. If he reacts really poorly to yellow or red being used during online chat or doesn't want to experiment with safewords at all, I would not suggest meeting him in real life.

She could also just state very clearly what her concerns are, what she expects him to do to address her concerns and see how he reacts. (It is bs that a sub/bottom never requests things or resolves issues with the dominant. Don't let him pull that nonsense.) He might simply not fully understand this is unacceptable behavior and, once educated, might be just fine. Suggest he check out Fetlife as an educational resource (it's not perfect but a good place to start). Suggest he read SM 101 by Jay Wiseman or other similar educational BDSM book. There are quite a few good ones out there.

But if he reacts poorly, won't hear of the idea and puts Susan down in response, acts unreasonably butthurt about the criticism (no one likes being criticized but adults realize the necessity) - then end things politely but firmly and hope he isn't a stalker. And make sure to document EVERYTHING. Every chat, every email, every phone call just in case. Unfortunately cops can make superior stalkers.

I hope this turns out to no big deal and just an inexperienced person who read 50 Shades of Gray too literally. I really do.
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Old 08-01-2014, 05:56 PM
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LovingRadiance LovingRadiance is offline
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I second everything said before.

He COULD just be clumsy-but clumsy CAN BE LIFE THREATENING.

My husband was very clumsy about how to navigate relationships and BDSM dynamics. I shut it DOWN and insisted that he educate himself. Two years later and a LOT of education about BDSM dynamics and HE said "wow, we need to traverse this slowly and carefully because the last thing I want is to hurt you or destroy us".
Someone who takes time to learn, will be cautious. Someone who is pushing and rushing; NEEDS EDUCATION.

ESPECIALLY in BDSM dynamics (and submission 'in the bedroom') is still a BDSM dynamic; respect of boundaries is CRITICAL.

But in any relationship; it's imperative that parties can respect limits and boundaries. If they can't back off when they are told-it's not safe mentally, emotionally or physically.

If he's a great guy and he's seriously interested; then being told he needs to back up and educate himself on boundary respect isn't going to be a deal breaker.
if it is a deal breaker-it needed to be broken.
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Old 08-01-2014, 06:47 PM
Nox Nox is offline
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Thank you, both. We are seeing very similar responses from all the sources we have looked at. She is going to proceed very cautiously and is hesitant to meet him at all at this point.
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Wife: Kay - mono female - married 18 years
LDR girlfriend: Susan - poly female - 3 year relationship
Stakes - very intimate friend
Ironically named Farmgirl - local interest
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Old 08-01-2014, 07:16 PM
Nox Nox is offline
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Susan really appreciates all the feedback she has gotten. Thank you again.
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Wife: Kay - mono female - married 18 years
LDR girlfriend: Susan - poly female - 3 year relationship
Stakes - very intimate friend
Ironically named Farmgirl - local interest
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  #6  
Old 08-01-2014, 07:35 PM
Nox Nox is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opalescent View Post
I assume Susan and Eduardo have never met in person but have only interacted online? Is she interested in online domination?
They have not yet met in person. He could locate her very easily. After talking this through, Susan is a bottom, not a sub. I do not know how far she would go. Her desires in that regard are more extreme than mine, and she doesn't really like to talk about it. It's new for her. I think to some degree it scares her what she'd let someone do to her and enjoy. We talked about the stoplight system to make ME comfortable and she agreed to it. It's more of analyzing the situation locks her up, not being in the situation.

Quote:
When Susan says it is a turn off to talk about things, what does she mean? Like if he is chatting about pissing on her boobs (to pick a more extreme example), and she replies this isn't hot for me and he wants to continue with that theme anyway?
I think it's more she doesn't want to research her boundaries. She doesn't want to go look at pictures and say "this is good", "this isn't." That's not fun. It's clinical and uninteresting.

Quote:
Does he listen to her feedback at all? Does she explicitly say, I'm not into piss play, let's chat about something else? Does he ignore that? It's important for subs/bottoms to be very clear with their tops/dominants about their hard limits (no piss is common just to go with my example). It's also important to acknowledge, own and talk about one's desires - guessing about a sub's wants/turn ons without any conversation or feedback is no fun. Doms aren't mind readers.
Not sure. I forwarded these responses along. I do not know if she will respond to them. We've gotten many suggestions that she needs to do exactly that and see if he respects, pushes, or dismisses them. That will occur before and in a positive fashion before they meet for sure.

Quote:
She's interacted with him for 3 years online. Has this type of behavior shown up before? (Not really listening to her, can't handle feedback, denigrates her thoughts, shows insecurity, treats other people poorly, etc.)
No. This is coming out of left field. She vaguely recalls one of his former gf's claim he is manipulative. Though if Susan recalls it, it happened. Her memory is flawless. That doesn't necessarily mean anything though, as the number of exes that would claim manipulation is far higher than what actually occurs

Quote:
She could just end things. Say it's not working out for her. Hopefully he would respect that. It would mean staying away from whatever electronic communities they currently are in (forums, boards, etc.).
Much harder said than done, but she can distance herself for sure. So far he has not been demanding of 100% of her time.

I am very thankful she is being receptive to the feedback and not defensive. I think she will be fine.
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Wife: Kay - mono female - married 18 years
LDR girlfriend: Susan - poly female - 3 year relationship
Stakes - very intimate friend
Ironically named Farmgirl - local interest
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  #7  
Old 08-01-2014, 10:44 PM
Memorandum Memorandum is offline
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I'm biased because I watch way too many crime shows. And I caught the repeat of the one involving someone described acting the way this guy does.

Run like the gingerbread man. I'd also start doing some OPSEC if I were her just to make sure she isn't already being stalked .
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Old 08-02-2014, 02:53 AM
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Eduardo sounds creepy and unsafe to me. Run!!!
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Old 08-02-2014, 08:22 AM
sparklepop sparklepop is offline
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Hmm. I'll offer my perspective, for what it's worth.

Firstly, when you say "between interludes", do you mean during pauses *in* play, or do you mean separate conversations outside of play? This is an important difference. If he's talking to her outside of play, the chances are he might be simply trying to assess her boundaries and feels at a loss. If he's talking to her in pauses *during* play, he could be checking in on her, but this is more likely pushy and - at best - sloppy.

Quote:
He would ask things like 'where are your boundaries, because I have none.'
Here, he could be pushing, or he could be communicating everything in one sentence. As a Domme, I would never phrase "where are your boundaries" in the same sentence as "because I have none", because I am aware that even bottoms (rather than submissives) can desperately want to please. If he's genuinely not trying to push, he's likely a sloppy or inexperienced Dom. If he is experienced, he's got more work to do.

Quote:
He'd ask her to watch videos to see which she likes best. He wanted her to send videos of things she likes. This doesn't seem that scary; in fact just the opposite as I think he's just finding where the borders are. Except, when she says it's a turn off to talk about things, he presses.
I too don't see a problem with asking her to watch videos. In what way does he press? For certain, a more considerate Dom would listen to her and ask how she might like to explore and identify her boundaries.

Quote:
When she says she doesn't like the conversation, he claims she's pushing him away. This has happened with things other than sex talk.
This part I'm wary of. A more empathetic response would surely be "I'm sorry - I didn't mean to cause you discomfort."

Quote:
Even without meeting her face to face, he already says he wants a life with her and wants to be with her forever and will never leave her and could never be just friends with her.
The difficulty here is that online relationships can be very intense. I've experienced many and even met my current GF through a virtual game similar to Second Life. He seems intense, but I can't say whether that equates to dangerous.

Quote:
That when she sent him a note about some concerns, he told her that he was wounded.
What concerns did she voice and did he address them, outside of saying he was wounded?

Quote:
I would appreciate if you have any signs to look for and could provide any advice. Specifically, does he seem dangerous? Are we just overreacting? If he is dangerous, is there a way to diffuse?
If Susan's gut is telling her to get out, she should listen to it. If she thinks he might be dangerous, the best way to diffuse would probably be to avoid confronting, attacking or insulting him and simply say that she's changed her mind and isn't ready for this, and kindly depart. She should save a record of their exchanges and any information she has about him (pictures, etc.) just in case.

If, deep down, she doesn't think he's dangerous but is being put off by his pushiness and other behaviour, I'd recommend the following things:

- Ask him if he knows what subspace, sub letdown, aftercare and top drop are and what they involve. Preferably ask these on the phone/over video, so that he's not Googling them, or at least over IM. If he doesn't know, he's not safe for her to play with regardless and needs to educate himself whether he's the psycho-kind-of dangerous or not.

If you and Susan don't know what these things are, feel free to message me, or ask here. I don't want to patronise you or take up your thread

- If Susan is going to bottom to anyone, whether online or in person, she does need to find out what her limits are. If there's really nothing (she'd do taboo things that I won't list here as I don't want to trigger anyone) she wouldn't do, having a firm traffic light system or safeword is fine. If Susan herself doesn't know much about BDSM, it's essential that she educates herself too - never rely on the Dom/me.

- Test him out. Test his empathy. Test his ability to apologise and take responsibility. For instance: if a bottom of mine said "I'm uncomfortable" about something, I'd immediately drop it and tend to their discomfort.

* I've used the word 'Dom' here simply to refer to their new play dynamic - I understand that he isn't necessarily Susan's Dom. Aside from all of that stuff, on a pure relationship level, Susan needs to ascertain whether he's pushy / insensitive / arrogant / etc. in that arena too.
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Last edited by sparklepop; 08-02-2014 at 08:26 AM.
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  #10  
Old 08-02-2014, 01:53 PM
Memorandum Memorandum is offline
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Forgot about the twelve hour edit thing.
Reading through again the guy also seems like a narcissist. But again that's only what's described here, other than a potential serial killer (my bias here, I know I need to stop watching those shows :P).

edit:
OPSEC = operational security. please suggest she do it anyways, you already said he could have easily have found out information on where she lives already. Even an ex-cop has connections.

Last edited by Memorandum; 08-02-2014 at 01:57 PM.
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