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  #11  
Old 07-30-2014, 05:44 PM
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Re (from Vinccenzo):
Quote:
"It takes effort to build a healthy relationship with even just one partner. The effort involved in building a healthy relationship with more than one partner can cause instability for all involved."
And the effort involved in building a healthy relationship with one partner can also cause instability for all involved.

The argument assumes that for each added partner, the odds are (greatly) increased that the overall relationship structure will topple. And while everyone has some saturation point (of maximum number of partners they can maintain), the fact is that I know many polycules (my own included) that are doing just fine, including many healthy polycules that are (successfully) raising kids. Admittedly I do also know of some cases where poly wasn't good for anyone in the family, kids or adults, but that's why I say polyamory isn't for everyone.

The thing to consider is whether it's best for children to have the least possible saturation in the adults that raise them; that is, as few partners as possible. But if that were true, then single-parent households would do better than dual-partner households because hey, one less partner = more stability = less chance of things going wrong.

Re:
Quote:
"How can you have children and put them through the potential unheaval all this might reap? It's not fair to them seeing as they have no power to leave the situation should things get ugly."
No child has power to leave the situation should things get ugly, no matter how (few or) many adults are raising them. My childhood sucked, yet my parents were not only monogamous but also hard-working, God-fearing disciplinarians. From what I've seen, there's just as many crappy monogamous families as there are crappy polyamorous families. In my case, my parents made each other miserable which made them ill-equipped (emotionally) to handle their kids. Everyone would have been happier if they would have divorced (much sooner than they did).

The thing to consider is what the parents are gaining by living polyamorously. If polyamory is increasing the happiness of all the adults, then it stands to reason that they'll be better equipped (emotionally) to handle their kids. Since some adults crave a polyamorous life, it stands to reason that the whole family will benefit if they pursue that life -- provided everyone is consenting of course.
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  #12  
Old 07-30-2014, 06:45 PM
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I don't have a rebuttal for anyone who wants to argue with me. I just walk away (or hang up). If they want to have a level-headed discussion and ask me questions, fine, I will answer and talk - but arguments, no.
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An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/
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  #13  
Old 07-30-2014, 10:33 PM
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I understand that completely. While mine aren't exactly the extremely religious and conservative type(they are religious but I don't think it's that bad) I still feel that they would have problems with it that probably aren't(at least for the most part) related to religion
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  #14  
Old 07-30-2014, 11:05 PM
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Personally, I've never let any family members' opinions affect how I live my life, and if any relatives get all judgmental on me or dump on me for whatever reason, I just stop contacting them. If they want to stay in touch and have a relationship with me, they need to show respect for me as an autonomous person. I have never understood when grown adults are afraid of their parents' wrath or judgment. Just because someone is related to me by blood doesn't mean they get to dominate me or subject me to their crappy behavior. My mother is deceased now, but there were periods when I refused to talk to her for months at a time, until she stopped relating to me as a child. The people who raised me were no longer in a parental role when I moved out to live on my own. In fact, I think we should all start calling our birth parents by their given names as soon as we can. They are just people.
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An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/
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  #15  
Old 07-30-2014, 11:26 PM
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Re:
Quote:
"Just because someone is related to me by blood doesn't mean they get to dominate me or subject me to their crappy behavior."
I totally agree, and have made efforts to live by that philosophy myself. My biomom finally gets it, I think (and my stepdad always did get it). My biodad and stepmom, not so much. [shrug] Oh well, it's not the end of the world.

Re:
Quote:
"I think we should all start calling our birth parents by their given names as soon as we can. They are just people."
Ha -- if only I could get my parents to see that. I call them by their given names. They persist in calling themselves Mom and Dad. Sigh. Parents today.
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  #16  
Old 07-30-2014, 11:48 PM
KerryRen KerryRen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinccenzo View Post
I've only come up against one argument that I couldn't quite dispute.

It takes effort to build a healthy relationship with even just one partner. The effort involved in building a healthy relationship with more than one partner can cause instability for all involved. How can you have children and put them through the potential unheaval all this might reap? Its not fair to them seeing as they have no power to leave the situation should things get ugly.
I still don't know how to answer that one other than by adhering to a heavy primary/secondary model till children become adults.
It's not a bad argument, as it goes. But it completely misses the fact that monogamous relationships -- particularly serial monogamy -- can and do also create upheaval in childrens' lives. Parents in general can and do create upheaval in their children's lives simply by moving, forcing their children to adapt to new people and often a new culture. But no one questions the morality of moving, which is usually done for the parents' benefits, not the children. The parents may decide to follow a particular religion system suddenly, and then require their entire household to convert and conform -- but we do not question that.

Children have no power to leave any any of these situations. They have very little power at all, except what they can manipulate out of the social dynamic. If the argument boils down to "for the children's sake", perhaps the better point is to address the powerlessness of children. Else we should require everyone to freeze in their work/home/religion/relationship situation the moment they have children, if the idea is to prevent upheaval and disruption. (which has been tried from time to time, I think, but not ended well).
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  #17  
Old 07-30-2014, 11:59 PM
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That's a good rebuttal also.
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  #18  
Old 07-31-2014, 12:52 AM
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Even though I don't consider poly to be cheating (and I would defend/argue that "consensual non-monogamy" is not "cheating" anyway)... that's the only one that I can personally see that couldn't ALSO exist in monogamous relationships.

I looked at kdt's long as crap list... and found an argument in monogamy along each issue he brought up (except, as I said, the "cheating" one).
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  #19  
Old 07-31-2014, 01:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poly6 View Post
How do you hide this from your parents? Don't they ever come to visit or anything?
Do you automatically think a poly situation should be hidden from parents? if so, why?
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The world opens up... when you do.

"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
"Love and the self are one . . ." ~Leo Buscaglia "

An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/
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  #20  
Old 07-31-2014, 07:54 AM
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Well no I don't. But not all parents are the same. I'm not saying anyone should hide it but for me personally in the future...... I'm not so sure or certain. In truth their disapproval would be disheartening but wouldn't stop me.
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