My heart is breaking.

I don't know that I'm asking advice; I have made my decision, and I"m sticking to it.

My husband and I have been pretty successfully poly for about four months. He has three women he's interested in; one he's madly in love with, one he's just dating, and another who's a regular playmate.

I have one fellow I'm interested in, but is too busy working to see me right now.

I also have an ex boyfriend I'm in love with. After things have been going so well with my husband (I've been on dates, had sex with one person, but that's it, and he was there, he's been having regular sex outside.) I finally asked if I could be with my ex.

It was an ill-timed request, truthfully, my husband had come home from a bad day at work. He was upset but insisted I go. At this point, even though my head knew it wasn't a good idea, I didn't have the willpower to resist anymore, and I went because dammit, its what I've wanted for so, so long.

It was wonderful. Everything was as I imagined, and more.

But the next day? My husband was cold and distant. We had sex, but he refused to look at me. (Eye contact is huge with him.) It was, point blank, the worst sex I'd ever had.

We had an enormous fight; what it boils down to is that he wouldn't stand in my way of being with my ex, but he wouldn't be able to be close to me. He would support me, love me, but he just couldn't cope with it. Basically, I could have one or the other. It wasn't him asking me, but I know the stakes, and I wasn't willing to pay the price to keep my ex.

So I made my choice. I told my ex I loved him, but I couldn't talk to him nor see him anymore.

It broke his heart, though he hid it well.

It also broke mine. My ex is one of my best friends; I've talked to him almost every day for over a year since he left his wife. What hurts the most is when my husband is chatting on facebook with his girlfriend, being cute and in love, and all I can think is I don't have anyone to do that with anymore.

I love my husband dearly, and he feels terrible. He doesn't neglect me, and the things that hurt me aren't because I'm jealous and don't want him doing them (it makes me happy when he's happy) but I miss doing them with my ex.

I'm bleeding.

And there's no one I can really talk to about it anymore, because my ex was who I talked to about the poly stuff. I can't talk about it with my husband, because he gets all hangdog and it becomes about him and I get tired of him saying he's sorry he hurt me.

He swears the reason he couldn't cope with it was because I was in love with my ex before we went poly. I'll be honest, now I'm almost afraid to date, because if he reacts this way if I fall in love again, I am not going to be able to continue the relationship with him. I'm not going to be held hostage. Especially when I've given him the very thing he couldn't deal with me having. To be honest, I don't know if I want to fall in love again. I don't want someone else. I want my ex.

I've been on one date since then. I don't really like the guy that much; he's okay, but there's just no chemistry. I have another date this week, but it's an out-of-town booty call.

We're full on poly; love accepted, dating separately or together, as it happens naturally. The only rules we have are safe play, and if one has serious objections, we'll listen (but it's not a veto.)

It's worked very well for him, more or less (Although he got a bit polysaturated last week and flipped out, since his ladies have assorted issues, and he gets deeply emotionally involved.) For me? Not so much. And I'm the poly one.

I just don't know what to think or feel. I made the right decision, for me, but it still hurts. All I know is that I miss my ex terribly, and not even that brief night of sex, which I now regret because of what it cost me. I miss my friend. My confidante.

I'm sorry you hurt. Take a time out and do your self care first. When you are more ready to think about problem solving? Could consider communication gaps.

It was an ill-timed request, truthfully, my husband had come home from a bad day at work. He was upset but insisted I go.At this point,even though my head knew it wasn't a good idea I didn't have the willpower to resist anymore, and I went because dammit, its what I've wanted for so, so long.

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I do not see the "question" or"request" there. That reads more like an "announcement." You have decided to go on a date, and are informing him.

Why do you ignore your internal voice? Despite the fact you could see your husband was struggling?

If he prefers planning calendars ahead so he can map out home chores or child care or whatever other shared household responsibilities you guys have in good time rather than you suddenly announcing dates as soon as he walks in the door as you leave? He could acknowledge this "dump and run" method of communication upset him. He could request that you stop doing "announcements" like this. And then ask if you are willing to agree to make time/space to talk about this problem at at a later date. Then you can leave for your date and he can be better about it knowing that time is set for working on this. Not left on a limb.

Or you could learn to consider that ahead of time.

You both could co-own that communication mistake. Do you? I don't get a clear sense of it being a co-owned mistake or that you both have apologize to each other for it.

We're full on poly; love accepted, dating separately or together, as it happens naturally. The only rules we have are safe play, and if one has serious objections, we'll listen (but it's not a veto.)

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Your agreements do not cover communication management. Sounds like it came up and you guys tripped a bit on it.

He swears the reason he couldn't cope with it was because I was in love with my ex before we went poly.

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What is the "it" that he is talking about there? To me you dated the man, it ended. Now you are starting a new thing with the man. Does your husband not view it that way -- more like it is a continuation rather than two separate phases? Is that what he's triggering on?

he wouldn't stand in my way of being with my ex, but he wouldn't be able to be close to me. He would support me, love me, but he just couldn't cope with it.

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Not able to be close to you HOW? What's he MEAN? What would change about his behaviors toward you?

Could this help him articulate what it is more clearly? Or you ask questions better to gain understanding?

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/images/Jealousy_Updated_10-6-10.pdf

If nothing blocks his coping ability other than the fact that you dated this person before? It sounds weird to me. I guess I don't see where a previous partner is a bigger threat to him than a stranger/new partner.

Could he better identify and articulate what it was at this point in time that bothered him that you can try to understand? Is it that you went on the date anyway even though he was upset? He wanted you to NOT take him at his word when he insisted you go?

Well, he isn't presenting serious objections. In fact he says he won't stand in your way. Are you not able to take him at his word because he says one thing but really means another?

Basically, I could have one or the other. It wasn't him asking me, but I know the stakes, and I wasn't willing to pay the price to keep my ex.

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I could be totally wrong on this -- but I am confused. I pick up this "mind reader what I mean!" vibe here sometimes where you are supposed to just KNOW what he means. I cannot tell if it is him actually expecting mind readering or you neglecting to ask clarifying questions and jumping to conclusions. Or a bit of both?

Maybe you could both benefit from adding HALT to your agreements? Not to move forward with anything or do relationship talks or make requests when people are (H)ungry, (A)ngry/(A)nxious, (L)onely, or (T)ired.

Again, I am sorry. I hope in time you are able to feel better and come to terms with this with husband. You guys are four months in -- there's bound to be bumps along the way. Your communication could be improved though so it is more clear as you continue to move forward.

Galagirl

I don't understand it, either. I don't see how it makes a difference whether I met him 20 years ago, or 20 minutes ago, you know? To me, it would actually be better, because this is a person I can trust and know won't take advantage of anything, who cares about him, too.

Coming from a mono place, I understand why you having a history with the guy could be upsetting, but it's based in emotion and fear, not in logic.
You're still with husband. You haven't left him for ex since opening, and wouldn't leave him for ex now.
I'm sorry you're hurting.

Well, if you have had a cheating affair in your past as described in the other post, and if he views dating this ex NOT as two separate dating times but a CONTINUATION -- maybe since to him this relationship with the ex started BEFORE you opened the marriage it trips his "cheating" rat's nest of feelings? It triggers him there in that corner of the mind? Was all that ever resolved and laid to rest fully? (This ex was not your cheating affair partner right? )

Could ask him if that is what is happening here.

Emotions are not always logical. Encourage him to express how he feels so you can understand where he is coming from. Not talk him OUT of feeling what he feels. That can come across as invalidating. But listen for now with no other purpose than to listen.

I had to listen to a poly friend recently telling me stuff in her polyship. It was like two hours of circling around it struggling to articulate what it was before she finally could tell me she felt disappointed. She was just disappointed and didn't know how to process that or let it go or WHAT. I told her maybe it was enough this time to ID the feeling and sit with it. It didn't have to be all solved in one go. It was ok to do nothing and just sit with it.

Some people are not good at expressing in a clear, direct, succinct way. And identifying is the first step to problem solving/coping. If he has a hard time with ID and questions his own coping skills -- then yeah. He's not just coping with the specific situation but strengthening coping skills period. Double whammy for him. Your previous poly dating partners didn't sound all that deep or serious and now here comes one that could be -- because it was before. That's a big leap in intensity.

Where others who KNOW they have coped before and can handle stuff can at least comfort themselves in the moment by thinking "Well, this is a new one. But I've coped before, so I can cope again." He doesn't have that to draw on for self comfort.

Maybe it is helpful to point out where he's coped with hard things before in general, even if not coping with you having "meaningful relationship concurrent with him" before.

Galagirl

GalaGirl said:

Well, if you have had a cheating affair in your past as described in the other post, and if he views dating this ex NOT as two separate dating times but a CONTINUATION -- maybe since to him this relationship with the ex started BEFORE you opened the marriage it trips his "cheating" rat's nest of feelings? It triggers him there in that corner of the mind? Was all that ever resolved and laid to rest fully? This ex was not the cheatee right?

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That could be it. It was fully laid to rest, yes; we went through counseling, an that was well before we had kids. It could very well be tickling that back bit of his brain. No, it wasn't my ex; that affair was thankfully emotionless. There has never even been the slightest impropriety between my ex and me; his marriage ended badly, and he could never forgive himself if he did to someone what was done to him.

Emotions are not always logical. Encourage him to express how he feels so you can understand where he is coming from. Not talk him OUT of feeling what he feels. That can come across as invalidating. But listen and see if that suggests new ways to approach handling this together so he feels safe enough and you feel free enough to date your ex that you want to date without past unresolved baggage weighing it all down.

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Ugh. I wish it were possible; I don't know if it can be, at this point; though he didn't say it, I think my ex is pretty hurt. Little signs, but they're there. I don't know that he'd be willing to expose himself again, even if my husband went to him himself and said it was okay.

I had to listen to a poly friend recently telling me stuff in her polyship. It was like two hours of circling around it struggling to articulate what it was before she finally could tell me she felt disappointed. She was just disappointed and didn't know how to process that or let it go or WHAT.

Some people are not good at expressing in a clear, direct, succinct way. And identify is the first step to problem solving/coping. If he questions his own coping skills -- then yeah. He's not just coping with the specific situations but coping skills at ALL. Double whammy for him.

Where others who KNOW they have coped before and can handle stuff can comfort themselves by thinking "Well, this is a new one. I'll have to figure it out. But I've coped before, so I can cope again."

Galagirl

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HE definitely has coping issues; he's having to learn how to cope with everything, these days; he's been an alcoholic for years, and is now 8 months sober. Learning to cope without substances has been tough.

Invi said:

Coming from a mono place, I understand why you having a history with the guy could be upsetting, but it's based in emotion and fear, not in logic.
You're still with husband. You haven't left him for ex since opening, and wouldn't leave him for ex now.
I'm sorry you're hurting.

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THanks. One thing he has said to others (myself and his girlfriend) is that I'll do anything to be with my ex.

Except I won't. I've proven that unequivocally.

ClockworkDragon said:

I'll be honest, now I'm almost afraid to date, because if he reacts this way if I fall in love again, I am not going to be able to continue the relationship with him.

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How he reacted with your ex is a HUGE red flag to me, and I would make bets that he will do it again.

I wouldn't have reacted the way you did, and broken things off with your ex, because to me it seems your husband is being blatantly controlling and not even trying to learn good communication skills or how to deal with difficult emotions. He's happy enough to have outside relationships of his own, but he has shown that he just "can't deal" with yours and isn't even willing to try. So it's hard for him, it hurts him, wahwah, polyamory IS hard.

Oreadne said:

How he reacted with your ex is a HUGE red flag to me, and I would make bets that he will do it again.

I wouldn't have reacted the way you did, and broken things off with your ex, because to me it seems your husband is being blatantly controlling and not even trying to learn good communication skills or how to deal with difficult emotions. He's happy enough to have outside relationships of his own, but he has shown that he just "can't deal" with yours and isn't even willing to try. So it's hard for him, it hurts him, wahwah, polyamory IS hard.

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He struggles a lot with this. It's definitely not easy for him. Even his own relationships. He's already stated that if it doesn't work out, we're going to get a divorce, because he understands that this is who I am, and he can't ask me to be monogamous anymore.

he has gotten a lot better about communication, honestly. WE communicate so much it hurts.

HE even asks how my other relationships are going.

But this one guy... he's just irrational about.

Yeah, I wouldn't on board with that. Husband gets to date whoever he wants, has three lovers of varying intensity, but you're not able to go be with a guy you love because you dated him before you were poly? I don't follow the logic here.

It sounds to me like your husband is trying to control you so that he doesn't have to do the work to overcome his insecurities about poly.

Have you considered dating your ex and seeing if your husband keeps up with his distance strategy for more than a few weeks? It really seems like an emotional power play on his part to keep you from dating.

Hubs can have as many connections with women, any women he chooses, as he can get while keeping you under his thumb? Egad. He should be grateful you want to be with someone you know well, who will be caring and giving toward you instead of some strange schmuck who hers, "Poly? Great! I'm gonna get myself laid!"

You should not kowtow to his insecurities - it is his job to manage his emotional reactions, and nothing you do or do not do will make it any better for him - coming to terms with you being able to choose your own partners and live your life as you see fit is ultimately an inside job only he can do.

I think you should show him this thread.

He's ok with you dating others and this is the one person on his "messy list?" Everyone has a messy people list whether well articulated or not. I would not love my husband dating my sister or my mother or my boss. I could guess that you would not love your husband dating your boss or mother either.

I have made my decision, and I"m sticking to it.

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In the end though, you made your choice to break up with the ex and stick with the husband. That is your choice to make and you state you are sticking with it. So it's about coming to terms with the choice you made at this point in time. I get that it is fresh right now.

The only thing I can think of is to work on your communication, agree not to do that thing again where he is upset and insists you go anyway and you go anyway ignoring he is upset. That didn't help things.

Articulate the "messy people" list so you are both clear on who they are ahead of time. Let time pass and heal, and then date freely how you want to date when you are ready to date again from a better informed place.

Let the ex heal. If in time he's willing to be active friends again and not date -- deal with that then. You can only do one thing at a time.

Galagirl

I don't think it's a control thing, honestly; I do know he has a lot of insecurities about this poly thing... especially regarding this guy.

AVoiding this problem in the future is going to be a bit easier, now (thanks to the advice here) -- but the problem is putting things back together. HE feels absolutely terrible; at least once a day, usually more, he starts feeling like an ass, and guilty, and whatever. I'm just tired of the conversation. Sometimes he tells me that I need to just go be with my ex (again, we don't want a serious relationship anyway. Just a friends with benefits arrangement) Sometimes he tells me I need to let him go. Or he needs to let me go.

I'm just tired of the roller coaster. I can't grieve in peace, because every day it's "I've wounded you terribly." Well duh. Give me some time to get over it. It's only been two weeks, you know?

I don't know what to do anymore. Do I give up on poly (and bury that part of myself), do I leave him? Do I move on and try to keep dating, since that doesn't seem to bother him? Do I insist on getting what I want, even though its going t hurt him, to prove that he's worrying for nothing?

It seems no matter what I choose... it's going to hurt him more.

How about not making decisions about leaving him or losing poly right now?. Just deal in bite size rather than whole shebang at once? It has only been two weeks for you. You yourself are wobbly and that is ok.

Tell him straight up.

You chose this. You are ok with the choice, just need time to let the ripples settle. Him bringing it up over and over is throwing more rocks in the pond making new ripples. Cut it out already. What does he need to calm down in his pond that you can reasonably provide? A hug? Cuz coming to throw rocks in yours helps nobody. His pond is still rippled and he is messing up yours.

If HE needs to talk and air out, could do that part of it with someone not part of the situation. The people in this situation were him, you, and the ex. So it cannot be one of them. Does not mean you do not love him. Just that you cannot be effective listening ear guy on this one at this time. That is all. Chill.

Just like you do not ask him to be your comfort ear at this time. He is one of the people in the situation. Two weeks in is too soon.

One comforts in and kvetches out instead.

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/apr/07/opinion/la-oe-0407-silk-ring-theory-20130407

Maybe read that together?

Hth!

Galagirl

It does help, actually, and articulates what's been bothering me so much. I can't grieve for myself, because I can't talk to him about it, and if I do, or show grief, he makes it about his misery and guilt. I like the ring theory. Maybe if we institute that, we can stop running in circles of self-perpetuating misery.

One of the other issues that's complicating this is that he is very instable in his head, too; he doesn't deal with all this drama well, and shuts down, physically and mentally. It's not just about me; his girlfriend recently left her long-time live-in boyfriend over a number of issues I don't have permission to share, and he feels guilty about his role in encouraging that. Suffice it to say, it's a GOOD thing that she left him, and while she hurts now, it's the good kind of hurt. But he feels responsible, and thus, guilty. (See a pattern?) His girlfriend and I often joke that he feels too hard (pun intended.) It makes for great sex, but when it comes to serious trauma... not so much. He internalizes everything.

Unfortunately, he doesn't have the coping skills to deal with it. So he doesn't eat or sleep. He's aware of these issues, and is working on them. Well, as well as one can. He's at least eating, but sleep is harder.

I know that I can't control him, nor be responsible for him, but it makes it harder to deal with my issues when I don't want to add more to his.

What's worse? When all this started, he knew I wanted to be with my ex. He was compassionate... weirdly so, at the time. All that compassion disappeared the moment we consummated our desire.

Ring theory can help in crisis to create a chill time out space, but once you are calmer and not wobbly?

You could think about talking and firm boundaries up. You guys sound like you self trigger and/or trigger each other and then it becomes one of those circle things. You have been polyshipping for four months... You are on a learning curve. Be ok with that.

I know that I can't control him, nor be responsible for him, but it makes it harder to deal with my issues when I don't want to add more to his.

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You are not able to share your hard stuff with someone else to deal with your issues instead? A good friend rather than him? What blocks you?

It may come down to accepting you want to be with him, so you accept he can only cover so much and you need a separate friend to process hard stuff with. It is not his strength at this time. That is the current price of admission.

It may be a soft limit that could change over time as his skills change or it might be a hard limit that will never change. This is as good as he gets with that skill set. Time will tell.

My spouse can and will listen but he prefers if I process elsewhere and bring him the cliff notes version where possible. Figure out what works for you guys. Sort it out.

Hang in there,

Galagirl

Re (from OP):

"He swears the reason he couldn't cope with it was because I was in love with my ex before we went poly."

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Damn, I think that's a shitty reason.

kdt26417 said:

Re (from OP):


Damn, I think that's a shitty reason.

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You and me both. TO be honest? I think it's more about him being threatened by it. My ex was his friend, too. The worst part is that he knew that this was what I wanted from the beginning. I dunno.