I love women. A lot. Is something wrong with me?

Hi all! First post here, and I'm so glad to have found this forum. I am in a primary relationship with a woman. Her name is Karen. We have lived together for quite some time and have been dating for 2 years. All in all, it has been the best open relationship I've had, and I feel grateful to have been able to explore things individually and with my partner that I have not with previous partners.

I am writing you all because Karen and I keep running into a problem. Every time I have expressed interest in another woman, Karen has withdrawn from me or judged my choices in women, even when there is no obvious concern to be made. I readily admit that at times I do not make the best of choices in women (nor do I think I will ever be perfect), but I also believe strongly in my ability to successfully navigate situations and learn something about myself in the process. I am a very self-aware person, and I do not like to remain "stuck." I want to feel free and happy in my own skin -- I strive for that every day of my life!

So I feel a great deal of hurt when Karen -- who I love dearly -- questions my choices. Some examples of women she has taken issue with:

*A woman who wanted romance very quickly

*A woman who had trauma in her past and some current relationship turmoil

*A woman who had zero experience with poly and never really had a long term relationship

*A woman who was a lot younger than me, we had a threesome with, and Karen was uncomfortable with the amount of attention I gave her

*A woman who was an ex of mine and I still had attraction to

On the surface level, some of those do sound like potential problems, and I have no problem accepting that my choices may not be "perfect." But then I think: "Who is perfect?" Is there such a thing as a perfect choice for a poly relationship? I am very much a glass half full kind of person and I tend to see the positive potential more so than Karen in any given situation. I am not afraid to try things out that I am attracted to and address problems as they come up. The thing is, though, that issues often come up between Karen and I before anything actually even happens with the other women. I merely express to Karen my attraction or say what I want with a particular woman and then problems arise in our relationship.

We have both thoroughly explored our wounds through our relationship -- mine being a strong desire not to compromise because of fear of being controlled; hers being fear of abandonment and feeling unloved. But we see how to work through those wounds in very different ways. My personal belief is that even though I am going into a potentially difficult situation, I should always be free to make that choice as long as I don't string Karen along. In other words, I don't believe in "preventing" things from happening that "might be trouble." As I said before, I am fully confident that what I'm attracted to is for a very good reason, even if I'm not fully conscious of it. I always learn something important about myself. Presently I am very interested in exploring other women and learning that way. And I feel very frustrated in Karen's constant need to negate or judge my choices in women, and I don't like when she withdraws as a result.

Anyway, I guess my question is: what changes can I make to make things easier on myself? I really want to date the women I'm attracted to, whether Karen wants to be involved with them or not. I do not feel comfortable slowing down so much for Karen. I also am concerned about losing her support. And I also am hurt when Karen questions my choices and judges my behavior around women. (She says I am desperate, which may be true. It's something I am willing to question in myself.) I feel very confident in my own "personal compass" to guide me, and it pains me when people I love tell me I'm off-course. In my experience, sometimes uncharted territory is necessary to explore before becoming aware of a whole new area.

Anyway, hope all of that made sense. Thanks for any and all replies!

Karen sounds like she will find issues with anyone you meet. Karen needs to trust you and not worry about other women. I feel like who we choose to be with is up to us and if our partners don't like them then they can choose to avoid being around other partner. I don't allow nate to dictate who im allowed to date. Would it be helpful not to share so much information with Karen? Less ammo for her

Thanks for the reply. I think it would be helpful for me to tell her less about the women I'm interested in. The only problem with that is that her and I have agreed to be open and honest about everything, and it would be hard for me not to feel dishonest in keeping information from her.

That is also one of her difficulties in relationships: trusting that her partner is being honest. It is not hard for me to be honest. But it is hard for me to trust that my honesty will not be met with a negative reaction and consequences for our relationship.

I personally asked my husband not to tell me negative things about his potential mates because when I hear negative things about them I think of them in a negative way and since I don't have anything to do with their relationship and I don't have any say on who he datse I don't need to be in the position that I dislike people that i dont have to deal with ever

in the same token if I'm having difficulty adjusting I don't appreciate him going off and telling these potential mates how I feel because it's really none of their business and also it makes me look like I'm some kind of jealous wife when I'm not acting out and I'm not talking with them are having anything to do with them why would they need to know that?

I am sorry you struggle.

Could examine the hurt.

What kind of open model are you guys trying to practice? http://www.cat-and-dragon.com/stef/poly/Labriola/open.html

Do you ask for her opinion and then not like what she says?

Why is it a problem if she withdraws? What is it she does that bothers you? You want her to do what instead?

I think it would be helpful for me to tell her less about the women I'm interested in. The only problem with that is that her and I have agreed to be open and honest about everything, and it would be hard for me not to feel dishonest in keeping information from her.

Click to expand...

Is the agreement too broad with "being honest about everything?" Would highlights do? Does it have to be a play by play? Could the agreement be updated to include what is "newsworthy" and what is "tmi" to you guys?

Galagirl

I see this a good deal on here and I've felt some of this with my own partner's choices. He will readily admit he is not polyamorous. He is polysexual. And he has a tendency to the white knight complex.
Do you love these women? Or do you instead love the female body and sampling? I ask this because there are many female bodies out there to sample and we live in a culture that has men, often not so self aware, thinking of sex as something they DO to women rather than something they share with a woman. This is often exhibited by getting involved with women indiscriminately.
When you see your own partner engaging in the same activities they share with you with people often catagorized as "fragile" or those who seem to not really get the bigger picture of what is or isn't being offered to them, it can send up red flags. Just take stock of how close to this you might be walking.

@ Inyourendo: That's a very good idea not to say negative things about other potential partners. When I share about others, it's usually because I want to make sure Karen has as much information as possible about the situation. If I mention that someone has some troubles, she tends to latch on to that and say it wouldn't be a good idea. But even if I don't say anything, she often finds something that makes the situation unappealing to her. Often it is the way I pursue women that she is uncomfortable with (I do a lot of online seeking), not the woman herself.

@ GalaGirl: We are doing the primary/secondary thing. We both like the idea of a family and home together. We're kind of "traditional" in that sense. But I am not looking for a veto-type relationship, and I feel cornered into choosing Karen's way when an issue comes up because of the threat that she may withhold her love and withdraw. When she does this, I feel scared and unsettled. The times when I have done thing anyway without her being okay with it, it has turned out very bad.

While I understand the need to communicate feelings about any given situation, I would like for those feelings to be communicated from a place of self-ownership, rather than "you're doing this, so of course I feel bad about it." I am compassionate and can take care of partner when she's hurting, but I don't like feeling like I am "wrong" for my choices, or something is unhealthy about my behavior. Especially when I don't have guilt or shame around it at all and feel attracted to an experience. I have slowed down for her a lot. But it becomes more and more difficult to make that compromise lately.

As for amount of information, Karen wants total and complete honesty. In other words, we tell each other everything. I am less inclined to need to know everything, but Karen thinks more information helps her feel safe. It seems like it only cause her to worry more. But she wants to deal with worry and learn how to change it, and I am trying to trust her in that process. But it makes it difficult to share my slightest attraction to women who aren't "good candidates for poly" when she reacts so strongly.

@ Vinccenzo: I have questioned such things in myself. I do wonder if I am just more polysexual. The only thing that has me hesitant to identify that way is the fact that I am more emotionally and intellectually aroused than physically. What I mean by that is: Even though I am initially more sexually driven and attracted to a woman's body/energy/looks, when it comes to having sex, I cannot get fully aroused unless I have a deeper connection. I am very attentive and enjoy sex because of the exchange of eye contact and deep feelings I can have with someone more than the simple act of it. So I don't see sex as something I "do," I don't think. If it doesn't feel shared -- if the woman doesn't seem present, no eye contact, checked out, etc. -- I don't feel comfortable.

As for the White Knight complex, I do often enjoy relationships where I can be a teacher of sorts -- where I'm more experienced, mature, etc. But I don't necessarily feel better about myself in that. It's not an ego booster for me at all. It's just a kind of sexual experience I enjoy. It felt really nice to offer a sexual experience to the young woman that Karen and I were with, for example, because we're both very experienced, and she was starting out exploring. That doesn't mean I'm not open to learning, too, but I maybe I like to feel more in control or something. I don't know.

One thing is for sure: I do not want "save" anybody. That kind of pressure is not appealing to me. When someone has issues, I don't see them as someone I need to fix. I just try to determine if their issues will be a big problem for my connection with the person, or if they will just be background noise. Everyone has sh*t to work on, so I expect that stuff will come up with anyone. But I know it is not my job to take on those issues.

@PolyinPractice: I agree with that. I do find it odd that I tend to choose women who are kind of unavailable, though I do like to remain in touch and continue a relationship. They are often already seriously committed to other people, really busy, moving away soon, etc. I feel less inclined to date someone who is looking for a deep commitment, but I also don't want to date people that aren't able to form some kind of friendship/connection.

So maybe I'm more of an FWB kind of guy? Or maybe I'm that way to start and then open to things developing if it feels right. I don't know. I try to just let relationships unfold if they are going to happen. Karen takes issue so quickly with my choices that the unfolding never really happens, though. I've not been able to feel safe really interacting the way I want with other women, as I fear Karen's emotional reaction. So I just tend to taper off once I connect with a woman, as a desire for something more brings up difficult feeling for Karen.

In other words, I don't know what I prefer in poly because I haven't dated anyone long enough to find out.

While I understand the need to communicate feelings about any given situation, I would like for those feelings to be communicated from a place of self-ownership, rather than "you're doing this, so of course I feel bad about it."

Click to expand...

To me that's just a random announcement. Nobody has to do anything different here. She's not asking you to.

You could ask her if there's something she'd actually like you to do or if this just making you aware of feelings. Clarify. Maybe that helps YOUR anxiety.

You could ask her to stop making random announcements like that because you trigger. Ask her if she's willing to frame it more like "When I see/observe you doing ____, I think ___ and then I feel ____. Could you be willing to ______? So I can _____ instead?" Like the full complete thought and not random bits that you then don't know what to do with.

As for amount of information, Karen wants total and complete honesty. In other words, we tell each other everything. I am less inclined to need to know everything, but Karen thinks more information helps her feel safe. It seems like it only cause her to worry more. But she wants to deal with worry and learn how to change it, and I am trying to trust her in that process.

Click to expand...

So ask her to share less with you because you are ok not knowing it.

And share enough for her to feel safe but not everything so you have some privacy. Find where that balance lies. Sounds to me like she's willing to own it. So let her own it. Share what you want to share, don't share what you don't and tell her so.

It is honest to say "Ok, there is (stuff I share now at this time). Then there's some (other stuff about X in general). But no deep details at this time on that. I would like to keep that part to myself at this time." That's being honest about it. Let her cope with her feelings about it.

Everyone needs a certain amount of privacy and if she's at a place where she wants to learn to deal with it, LET her.

But it makes it difficult to share my slightest attraction to women who aren't "good candidates for poly" when she reacts so strongly.

Click to expand...

So don't tell her you think someone is cute and you are attracted. Keep it to yourself or share somewhere else. That kind of data is not witholding info that could hurt or is hurting anyone. It ok to keep it to yourself.

Galagirl

If I were you, I would say something like the following:

"I've noticed a pattern in your reactions to other women I'd like to date. It seems that you usually disapprove or find fault with them for one reason or another, and then you pull away and distance yourself from me. I wish you were not so negatively affected by my choices, but I really don't think there is anything I can do to make you more comfortable with the kind of women I'm attracted to. So, I am asking that you not share your negative opinions of them with me, and start looking at your reactions to figure out what your issues are. You know that I don't need your approval to date whomever I want, but it would be nice if just once in a while you could be happy or excited for me, and not feel the need for distance. However, I will not apologize for the kind of women I'm attracted to, nor for pursuing them, and I will be open to discussing this issue once you've worked out for yourself what the problem is. Until then, if you want to create distance between us, for whatever reason, that is what you will get and I will continue to date - I will miss you and wish we can be closer, but I won't be manipulated into trying to fix whatever is bothering you. But if you want closeness and to talk about what's bothering you, I'm open to that."

Call her bluff

Newbie here in the forum, but with some experience.

Sounds like OP's primary, Karen, isn't really into polyamory. All her criticisms of other women OP wants to be with sound like passive-aggressive rationalizations designed to sabotage any outside relationship the OP might engage in. If OP pursues the outside relationship, Karen withdraws, forcing OP to drop the outsider and rush back to Karen.

Have I understood the situation correctly? If I have, then this is what I would do:

If/When Karen criticizes/belittles OP's next outside interest, OP should ignore her. Then, when Karen begins to withdraw—which is her passive-aggressive way of presenting OP with an ultimatum, "Her or me"—I would tell Karen, "OK, you want to end our relationship because I'm pursuing this outside interest? Then let's end our relationship."

Karen won't end her relationship. On the contrary, she will pursue the relationship with renewed vigor—and will finally accept OP's outside interests.

This is what I would do, without any desire to offend or insult. But my take is, a bully—especially passive aggressive bullies, which is what Karen seems to me to be—only back off when you call their bluff.

Best of luck.