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  #291  
Old 04-24-2012, 09:52 AM
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BlackUnicorn BlackUnicorn is offline
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Default Poly is just like having cats

Well, not for everyone. Personally, I greatly dislike cats. I don't go all ooey-gooey when I see a picture of a kitten in a magazine. I don't want to cuddle other people's cats. I don't want to have cats. Yet, we have two cats, and I was actively involved in the process of procuring cat number 2. Why?

Frankly, it was a choice of either a) working through my hatred of cats in order to be with the woman I love or b) deciding irrational hatred towards those furry critters was not worth losing the woman I love (who also LURVES her cats).

Don't get me wrong: our cats have been the source of acute misery in my life. They have harmed me in very tangible, concrete ways. Vanilla will never understand why I don't like them and why I think they stand in the way of me living my life to the fullest. Whenever my hatred of cats has flared after some cat-related wrong that has been inflected on me, I have asked for more compromises and reassurances to let me know that I am valued too, and my desire to live a life independent of those puffy rodents is respected to a reasonable degree.

When I requested for a study where I can store my stuff free of feline influence and sequester myself whenever I feel like I can take NO MORE CATS, I was given one. I haven't needed that space all that much. Whenever cats do maddening thing x, I go through the following mental steps: (1) I do have rights when it comes to cats. People should go first. If a cat is bothering my meal, it needs to go the bathroom and wait until the meal is over. (2) They are first and foremost Vanilla's cats. When cats break/make a mess of/complicate things, it's Vanilla's job to take care of it. I can do certain things for the cats, but I am not doing them because they are my responsibility, but out of kindness towards my spouse. (3) When cats occasionally manage to make a mess of my stuff, I remind myself that I have chosen this, fully aware that cats occasionally infuriate me. They are not be blamed for eating a very enticing piece of paper that I have left out in the open, nevermind how important that slip of paper subjectively was to me. So it's not alright to be angry at the cats but to change my own behaviour to fit the new situation.

I have trouble asking for the space I need away from Chip. I think I've gotten most of the things I need: no texting/talking with Chip when I am together with Vanilla, no Chip in my immediate vicinity, no need to interact with Chip. I also requested for Vanilla not to be so badly beaten up after every time she sees Chip that it interferes with our cuddling. Vanilla thinks I have a way too negative preconceived image of Chip and that I am not giving him a chance, but I don't really want to. He's Vanilla's cat - let her deal with him.
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  #292  
Old 04-24-2012, 01:11 PM
Vanilla Vanilla is offline
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But when you're in a good mood, you DO cuddle our cats and sometimes even seem to enjoy it. That gives me some kind of hope

It doesn't bother me if you text me 4664838785 times per day, I just hadn't realized it bothers you if I don't always answer.

Rory, I don't think it's unhealthy self-hate, but more like "I didn't realize my behaviour hurts you and I feel sorry for that." I think BU's "our disagreements went like this: "I feel bad when you do x". "OMG, you are so right, I'm a horrible person for doing x". Lots of crying and embracing ensues 0_o." was really overestimated example, or at least that's not how I feel our disagreements usually are. But I think it's normal to feel bad when you realize you've hurt someone you love. This is where people mostly seem to disagree with me; I find it okay to apologise even when I have done something wrong accidentally or without knowing it's not right. Like, I do apologise if I accidentally drop my friend's glass and break it or something like that. People mostly seem to think you can apologise only something you have done consciously, and I just find it weird.

I find it confusing how many of you seem to have really clear opinions about how things are and what would be the best thing for us to do, like, you two really need to move away from each other and you absolutely have to stop seeing other people and I am definately bad to BU in every possible way and so on. I mean, good advice is always welcome, but how could anyone else know for sure, what's best for us? My friends whom I know irl and most of them know BU too, are amazingly supportive and telling us there's nothing we couldn't fix, but have you concidered about doing this or could it be good for you to do that? (except Rory, I really appreciate your way of expressing your opinions and suggestions in this way, thank you! It makes me feel sooooo much easier to think about stuff instead of just going furious. )

I'm sorry, I just become really defensive when anyone tries to tell me straigtly what to do and you HAVE to do like this and that and act like someone could know better for sure. But, of course I can be wrong too. Anyway, I really find it the worst idea ever for BU to move away, 'cause I'm absolutely sure we can fix things easier ways and too radical reactions would just make things worse. Ans BU's mom really, really hates me for unknown reasons and is ashamed of her daughter living with another woman, so if BU now moves there feeling confused and messed up, I'm pretty sure her mom would try her best to manipulate against us, which she tries to do even when things are okay. I can't see that being anyhow helpful with our situation.
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  #293  
Old 04-24-2012, 02:22 PM
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BrigidsDaughter BrigidsDaughter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanilla View Post
But when you're in a good mood, you DO cuddle our cats and sometimes even seem to enjoy it. That gives me some kind of hope

It doesn't bother me if you text me 4664838785 times per day, I just hadn't realized it bothers you if I don't always answer.

Rory, I don't think it's unhealthy self-hate, but more like "I didn't realize my behaviour hurts you and I feel sorry for that." I think BU's "our disagreements went like this: "I feel bad when you do x". "OMG, you are so right, I'm a horrible person for doing x". Lots of crying and embracing ensues 0_o." was really overestimated example, or at least that's not how I feel our disagreements usually are. But I think it's normal to feel bad when you realize you've hurt someone you love. This is where people mostly seem to disagree with me; I find it okay to apologise even when I have done something wrong accidentally or without knowing it's not right. Like, I do apologise if I accidentally drop my friend's glass and break it or something like that. People mostly seem to think you can apologise only something you have done consciously, and I just find it weird.

I find it confusing how many of you seem to have really clear opinions about how things are and what would be the best thing for us to do, like, you two really need to move away from each other and you absolutely have to stop seeing other people and I am definately bad to BU in every possible way and so on. I mean, good advice is always welcome, but how could anyone else know for sure, what's best for us? My friends whom I know irl and most of them know BU too, are amazingly supportive and telling us there's nothing we couldn't fix, but have you concidered about doing this or could it be good for you to do that? (except Rory, I really appreciate your way of expressing your opinions and suggestions in this way, thank you! It makes me feel sooooo much easier to think about stuff instead of just going furious. )

I'm sorry, I just become really defensive when anyone tries to tell me straigtly what to do and you HAVE to do like this and that and act like someone could know better for sure. But, of course I can be wrong too. Anyway, I really find it the worst idea ever for BU to move away, 'cause I'm absolutely sure we can fix things easier ways and too radical reactions would just make things worse. Ans BU's mom really, really hates me for unknown reasons and is ashamed of her daughter living with another woman, so if BU now moves there feeling confused and messed up, I'm pretty sure her mom would try her best to manipulate against us, which she tries to do even when things are okay. I can't see that being anyhow helpful with our situation.
I'm sorry if you felt attacked by what I said. When Runic Wolf and I were just barely out of noob status in open relationships and fairly new to BDSM as well he "rescued" a friend from her "emotionally abusive" family. Initially, we both thought she might be interested in a threesome, but I was quickly shut down and took it in stride. I never really trusted her or felt comfortable with her. She told me that when they'd met, she didn't notice he was married and was looking for an older boyfriend (we were 24/25 and she was 18 or 19). She claimed to be interested in being his 24/7 sub, wanted to wear a dog collar and to be called Little Bitch, seemed to live to cook and clean for him while I worked 60 hours a week and went to school part time. It was very alluring for him - especially considering that at that point in my life, I wasn't even willing to try to be submissive for him. Her attitude towards me, her communication, and many other things were toxic to our marriage. Though he was too blinded by NRE to see it. She convinced him of many things about me that weren't true - including that he wasn't really bi-polar and didn't need to take his meds. The last straw for me happened when our 4 year old drew a family picture at pre-school and I wasn't in it, but she was. I ended up having the night off from class unexpectedly and was at his mother's when he arrived, with her in tow, to pick up our son. They'd planned on taking him to the carnival and she didn't want me to come. We ended up going home, fighting, me telling him I couldn't take her being in our lives any more while she sat out on our balcony listening to every word. He took her home and I told him until he went back on his meds, I couldn't trust him to stay in our house. He moved in with his mother for 5 weeks while we talked through it, attempted counseling. He came over every night to tuck our son into bed and we'd talk, I'd tell him how much I needed him, loved him, and couldn't live without him. I cried myself to sleep when he left and eventually he realized what he really wanted/ needed and came home. That was 7 years ago and we're stronger for it, but damn was it hard.

We didn't go back to being monogamous (we never really were after we were married), but we chose our partners more carefully after that. I'm not saying that you two need to separate, but I do think that what you have been doing isn't working. Something needs to change and you both need to figure out what that is together and commit to sticking to it.
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  #294  
Old 04-24-2012, 04:51 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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We only know what BU and now you tell us. Take what we say, use what is helpful and ignore the rest. No one here expects you to do anything we say. We hope you think about our points, even the harshly worded ones. But really we are electrons on a screen. Use or not as you see fit.

That said, for the people who post regularly, we've been following your story for a while - of course just from BU's point of view. We've heard about your struggles, your happiness and good times. So basically we care. We want you and BU to succeed and be happy (although not at the cost of either your sanity or health). BU sent me a lovely message when my marriage failed. She's become an online acquaintance, and by extension, I feel like I know you a bit too. (Have you read her words about you in her blog? Might be good for perspective.) So we give a damn and see some frightening things going on. So we might respond more strongly than is necessary. That said, you have every right to tell us off, say we got it wrong and give your side. I hope you continue doing so.
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  #295  
Old 04-24-2012, 05:24 PM
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Arrowbound Arrowbound is offline
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Here's what I'm getting from what's been posted so far:

BU is aware of issues that have arisen, and acutely so, to the point of wanting to move home to her disapproving mother.
Vanilla is somewhat aware but is insistent on glazing things over and pressing on.

That's what I'm reading tbh. I feel like there's so much "Yeah, it sounds pretty bad, but it's not reeeeeeally that bad" going on, and I don't know who that's going to help. And honestly with these other immature, self-serving partners when are y'all going to have time to work on YOUR relationship? Especially considering that the shitty things that have happened amuses them.
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  #296  
Old 04-26-2012, 09:17 AM
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BlackUnicorn BlackUnicorn is offline
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Default Happy happy joy joy

I had the greatest day yesterday. I presented my work at a conference and got enthusiastic feedback. Work was great, as usual, and I had a happy relaxing evening at the place I'm volunteering at. I didn't realize how important this feeling of confidence in my work and not-being-trapped-at-home feeling is for my wellbeing.

So I came home, happy and relaxed, and texted Vanilla that it's okay if Chip stays the night, or that at least I would like to try communicating with him on a non-hostile basis. The evening went great! We watched Supernatural and the world was saved again (gosh I love that show) and went to bed. I slept on the couch with my ear plugs, since despite her protests I knew Vanilla and Chip would like to get up to something behind the bedroom door. This had the unintended consequence of me sleeping blissfully through the alarm and just barely getting up early enough for my therapy.

In therapy we talked through how important individuation would be for me, complete with finding people who share my passions and interests. The therapist thinks I fall too easily into the helper role in my interpersonal relationships. She suspects it's due to having grown up surrounded by adults with acute, untreated mental health problems. I honestly can't come up with a single positive close relationship with a healthy adult when I think of my childhood. It was good to hear that it might not be all me being too sensitive and challenging and controlling but rather me being necessarily healthy but having to deal with too many people with too much undeclared baggage at the crucial moments when I was learning how to be with other people, what I can reasonably expect from others etc. .

The funny thing is, when I am at happiest with myself, I feel the most that my relationship with Cookie is a dead-end, and trying to save everybody from themselves isn't healthy. I don't how to break it to him that I honestly deserve better .

Vanilla has, come the new relationship with Chip, come to realize that her earlier d/s relationship with Goblin wasn't a healthy dynamic at all but for 90 % just sheer emotional abuse. She experiences the time as quite traumatic nowadays. Goblin holds on to weird stalking behaviours even now - he spent considerable amount of time and detective work on finding out who Chip is IRL. I think he just gets off on this control fantasy - he insists that Vanilla can never meet anyone that he doesn't already know and have an opinion of.

After work today I'm going to head home to do some connection exercises with Vanilla and hopefully have hawt and not-too-tired sex. I've decided to commit to my own physical health, too - if I can't make it to a krav maga class, I'll do yoga instead.
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  #297  
Old 04-28-2012, 05:17 PM
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BlackUnicorn BlackUnicorn is offline
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The Lord is indeed good. Cookie has found the woman of his dreams, and it ain't me! He cancelled our overnight date tonight to be with this dream broad, and I'm so happy I'm well-nigh bursting. Go happy couple go! I hope he never texts me again.

Vanilla just left for the kink party we we're supposed to go together, but where she'll be going with Chip intstead. She was super-grumpy for all her stuff having mysteriously gone missing and being so very late. I tried to sleep through most of grump. So it just so happens I have the flat to myself, no one to look after expect myself (do have to feed the cats at some point though, poor single cat mother me) and tons of creative crap to do. Yee-haw!

I've talked it over and over again with the psychologist, mum, Vanilla, Flattie, you lot on how I want to find people who share my passions and zest for life and with whom I can feel equal sharing friendship and possible partnership with. I think I'm working there, slowly but surely. Life is good.
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  #298  
Old 04-28-2012, 07:52 PM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Originally Posted by BlackUnicorn View Post
I hope he never texts me again.

...I want to find people who share my passions and zest for life and with whom I can feel equal sharing friendship and possible partnership with.
You do have a say in all of that, you know. You can tell him never to contact you again, and maybe you can even block him from doing so (depending on your service). And you can start building your self-esteem so you make better choices about the people you spend time with. Why hope for other people to make the decisions? Take a stance, honey!
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"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
"Love and the self are one . . ." ~Leo Buscaglia "

An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/
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  #299  
Old 04-28-2012, 08:14 PM
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BlackUnicorn BlackUnicorn is offline
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I did it! Sorta. But it was exciting. Just texting "I hope you are okay with us only seeing each other as friends from now on". Standing up for myself is exciting!

I have a minor issue with poly non-judgement atm. A girl I know has recently moved in with a MFM triad/vee as the newest addition to the bunch. She has dated the other man in the equation since the beginning of this year, and moved in almost immediately. All are bi and most are outside working life. I can't see a way this will not blow up in everyone's faces and magnificiently so. Am I being too narrow-minded? Am I generalizing from my own experience too much?
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Old 04-28-2012, 10:15 PM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is offline
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A girl I know has recently moved in with a MFM triad/vee as the newest addition to the bunch. She has dated the other man in the equation since the beginning of this year, and moved in almost immediately. All are bi and most are outside working life. I can't see a way this will not blow up in everyone's faces and magnificiently so. Am I being too narrow-minded? Am I generalizing from my own experience too much?
Not nearly enough info to know the likelihood of stuff "blowing-up" - so much (everything?) depends on the people involved. Dude moved in with us from essentially day one (maybe before). Made it through the first year okay and all relationships are growing stronger...you never know

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Dude: hetero poly male, live-in boyfriend (4+ yrs) and MrS's best friend
Lotus: poly bi married female, "it's complicated" relationships with Dude/JaneQ/MrS (1+ years)
+ "others" = FBs, FWBs, lover-friends, platonic G/BFs, boytoys, etc.


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The Notebook of JaneQSmythe
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