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Old 05-11-2014, 08:44 PM
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alibabe_muse alibabe_muse is offline
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Default I married a liar - where do I go from here

This is in two posts since it is so long:

My spouse, bassman, has been a liar since he was a kid. Never disciplined for it, enabled quite a bit from his momma and this behavior has been a part of him ever since we first started dating almost 21 years ago this month.

Note: I have forgiven all lies from the past, but the past is part of the present and the future, so it will be brought up.

The lies, until now and that's at least what I am aware of and this part, the doubt, is the sucky feelings that sit inside me. New ones and the most recent was Friday night has created a two-fold situation for me, the realization that although he proclaims primary/secondary hierarchy (I'm not 100% or even close to this relationship structure as stated in my blog), but as a line from Hamlet "the lady (put in man) doth protest too much" seems to spew from his mouth (spew - sounds vindictive, angry but it's more a reality as I feel zero anger just a lot of heartache and pain-both in my heart and my mind) and that in reality I have actually become and actually was months and months ago (he has been seeing wild orchid since the end of October) I am treated sub-par and way below the line of a "secondary" pretty much like shit.

Lying - I have not been able to get him to accept he's a liar, possibly habitual (he has denied when I suggested this with the prior lie to this weekend). I need to do research on why one would lie. Bassman has told me it's because he doesn't want me to hurt if he tells me the truth or he's walking on eggshells

(my reaction this is said to turn the tables and make me feel guilty for his lie - History: first time he lied I was pissed and when we were in our 20's I would just get angrier and angrier every time a lie was discovered--these lies were never about another woman or cheating, but regarding our financial health, the ones that really upset me, since we've struggled with our finances ever since we moved in together--I may not have been justified with the vehemence of my anger back then--it was a learned behavior from my mother and included anger at myself for marrying a man just like my father)

Or he lies just because he isn't ready to face consequences of his decisions made.

The problem I see with the lying is a) it usually is discovered, comes out, found out naturally (I’m so in tune with when he does it, I immediately "know" as soon as it is spoken--I don't search for it...the truth just appears to be confronted--and if my path in life is to be tested by loving and living with a liar, that is some shitty ass charma I have on me b) although I might have been upset by being told a truth my upsetness would have been less c) I’m not allowed to grow d) makes me feel as if I'm feeble minded, unable to cope with reality in his eyes e) and the lie just makes the pain that much more, that much heavier to bear f) the receiver of the lies then self-doubts, loses some self-esteem, pride even, and self-hate.

My crossroads - even after we have our discussions (have had a few yesterday) I don't know if it's worth it to me to stick in this relationship. Looking back over the last 21 years, there has been way more joy than pain. My problem is the pain of receiving treatment from one who says they love me, I'm their soul mate, their best friend, that how can that be love? I'm not much into understanding D/s emotional aspects but I'm pretty sure that between the Dom and sub, there is honesty and respect and love, so then I realize this relationship has turned into way too much yuck for me to accept. As Galagirl would say "I’ve reached my limit".

I do not want to force him to change, I am not giving any ultimatums but only choices for me that will enable my growth, rather than stunting me, intellectually, emotionally and physically (stress inhibits the transmitters to kick start the metabolism and on top of only having 1/2 my thyroid removed, the lies are affecting me physically).

I accept he has his reasons to lie - and that's a crutch of loving him, but I don't know if I can let myself be a victim of it anymore. This is where I believe I need ADVICE:

* How healthy is it to remain in a relationship with a liar - the liar has not offered up resolutions to making the relationship healthier?
* How healthy is it to remain in a relationship with a liar - the liar has offered up resolutions to making the relationship healthier?
* What is constituted healthier? I ask because I am in a highly emotional state and realize my bias will always outweigh an ability to see both sides of a story.
* If I decide that options for change are not enough, am I giving up to easily? I love him so frickin much but in the last two days have realized I haven’t trusted him and that’s been for a long, long time.
* If I decide the options for change (and that’s in both of us because there are other issues involved) are possible to enable and promote healthier, happier individuals that will benefit the dyad and in turn bless our family (NOTE: kids are healthy, happy, not involved with any of this I am their protector and nurturer so no worries on them in all this at this moment) do I set up a timeline for when “goals” need to be accomplished? And do I create a tickler list of what we set up and let’s say that by X time only 2/10 goals were accomplished or 8/10 do we need to create a percentage that says “we will continue forward” or “we will not continue forward”? If so, how do I explain it to bassman?

Whew a little spent writing that out. Cried some as I did, then had to think a bit harder to not lose my focus.
I know I have more to share/background on this part but the big WOW that hit me yesterday is just as important information about ME, where I am emotionally, thought processing. Wait: up until March lies had been about financial things. In March they turned to his relationship with Wild Orchid. Now the truth of the lies are coming from circumstance. Like needing princess’ lunch bag, asking pnutt if they grabbed it from daycare the day before and being told “oh we must have left it in wild orchid’s car”. I didn’t know, which it’s not my place to control what happens if we don’t have family obligations or plan together except we had a “boundary” {we’re supposed to let each other know beforehand an oso will be seen or at least in the very least tell about it afterwards (his request way more than mine) and still since I am supposed to let him know before if I see a fwb or potential}. The day before I had asked if she had been over visiting since things were picked up, doors shut, etc – what he does when he has company, and he said NO. I dropped it but princess said wild orchid bought her the coloring book (three year olds love sharing facts when their happy) and again I asked if she had visited. Told that was princess’ birthday present from his mom. Whatever, I dropped it. So when I need the lunch bag, I’m running late to work and what pnutt said presented the truth of the lie.

So the lie Friday night, let me recap the details:

He’s a chef, was working a double. Texted me 8:29 pm “Should be back by 10:30 give or take”. Then at 11:25 I wake from napping and sense something isn’t “right” (I am intuitive) sent this text “Are you ok?” He responds “I’ll call you in a bit. I’m fine…busy” “Mother’s day prep. I state “Right” “What a lie” “Why are you lying?”. No word from him again, after I started freaking out…he wasn’t at his job (yes I drove by only so I didn’t start feel like I’m going crazy, losing my mind & him saying he was there but left for drinks at whatever time he'd use in his lie, never knowing when he might come home, and then started fearing he was silly, went for drinks with the crew, got pulled over and was in jail or worse yet, dead on the side of the road).

Finally at 3:47 am he texts (he had his cell off this entire time and he had his overnight with her on Thursday, they are back to two a week) “With Wild Orchid. I’ll see you in a bit. I’m totally OK. Phones off. Be home by 5am”. I don’t respond but called him and left him a message we are divorcing. I totally freaked out, but no anger, just done, done with it all. 5:20 receive “Fell back asleep. Leaving in 15”

I am now wounded beyond repair, thank him for the awesome mother’s day weekend, that I’ve always wanted that feeling and would he be making it to the teens soccer game since he promised I could sleep in (I never slept and got in 2 hours since I woke Friday morning until last night at midnight which was Sat) and he’d be there at her tournament.

So he calls me when he finally leaves…actually sent a text first “We need to talk before anyone talks about leaving. Don’t want to text about this. I’m heading home” 6:05 am. And tells me he no longer loves me and that how our home is never perfect (he works, I work, teen is busy, we have an 8 year old and a 3 year old who is the queen of destruction…minutes after an area is organized, you look back and she’s just created chaos) and basically hearing from him it’s over. He says that’s not it. Etc. blah, blah I hope you get the jist. Guess what I’ve been doing since that, laundry, putting away what’s been washed for weeks, getting our bedroom cleaned (except his grossness on his side of the bed—that’s on my list of “issues” in our relationship and living environment (SORRY there is info I haven't shared but we have agreed to discuss, try to resolve and move forward…I’m still not sure what I want or if I want an outcome and we should just end it now).

Last edited by alibabe_muse; 05-11-2014 at 10:14 PM.
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Old 05-11-2014, 08:45 PM
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As I think about that statement, again I feel projection of his self-feeling onto me and the family rather than being accountable for his actions, choices. I am not without my own faults. I have quite a few imperfections…I’ve worked on the anger (that was my weakest part of me years ago, no longer – but I do have days when I just want to die (I feel like that don’t want to commit suicide definitely not that kind of “die) but that is not me and I view that as weak, so I again get into that revolving door of self-loathing. And I have no one in person to discuss this with. IT’s not fair to teen as she is my best friend so I’ve been internalizing a lot. Writing my list has helped. Bassman isn’t allowed to see it until he has his list done. And what time frame do I give for him to create his list? A day, two, a week?

Now to my WOW that is on my list. This one I’ve actually discussed with bassman. The part of Friday that is the explanation for the lie. Wild Orchid’s husband had a doctor’s appointment. Wild Orchid always goes to these appointments with her husband. Husband asked his girlfriend to go with him, telling her he had already discussed with Wild Orchid. The appointment comes and (I don’t know how this act of betrayal which caused ‘HURT’ for wild orchid come to light but it did sometime on Friday) mayhem I guess. Pain, hurt: wild orchid’s husband never discussed his girlfriend going with him instead. (Man I laugh knowing that something triggered in another relationship has put mine in a more dangerous place of being ended…) I read that and think, my husband decided to and made a choice to hurt me for this? Really, this was worth all this heartache and pain and the lie?

Had he at 8:30 told me what was going on with wild orchid (when he got off work and went to her so it wasn’t just one lie but multitude to “cover his tracks”), that she was hurting and she had told him she needed him, HAD HE BEEN HUMAN ENOUGH to just tell me what’s up, I would not be here writing this post. Even though (I haven’t gotten to my WOW yet) this WOW would become obvious to me and it’s a WOW of a realization I wrote in my blog on why I lost compersion and once I recognized what triggered that and my struggles (all in the blog) this WOW was divine ripping of my soul.

Every time a struggle has happened since my surgery for cancer on Dec 5th, 2013, and I’ve needed my paramour for consolation he has made a choice to leave me alone and go be with his paramour, my metamour. This is not her fault and I know that, this is all on bassman. He made the choices that have shown me where I stand as far as a loving, healthy, nurturing relationship. This is THE SLAP IN THE FACE. Friday night, 21 years of love and putting up with so much bullshit and lies, was shown as meaning nothing but shit and that I am shit in his opinion. Man is this hard to write…partly that it is causing me to cry from how painful it feels to realize what I mean to someone who has proclaimed how much they love me, that I’m his primary blah blah blah.

I’ve been reading some other threads and in the one on COUPLE PRIORITY nycindie writes: “An egalitarian approach doesn’t mean that everything is always equally balanced, but it does mean that I strive to never let anyone I’m involved with ever feel that they’ve been treated as less important to me than anyone else”. This hit home for me. I do not believe in hierarchy even if I am legally binded. Anyone I love is as equally important to me. And that hit home part “treated as less important than anyone else”. I realized that is why I’ve struggled. That I was shown I am less than important.

*How do I get over this? This realization that I am no longer as important as another or even really that important. That 21 years, 23 of knowing each other, is nothing but shit?
*Is it due to the restriction of “married” that causes the lies and choices of treating me as bassman has done?
*I love him so much and most of the time, it’s a good life we have, but I feel this marriage restriction, that if it was removed, could help with want each of us really wants versus the ingrained silent thought in the brain that there is an obligation that should be upheld…that till death do us part…is the cause of a lot of this. How do I approach this as another possible solution? That we get divorced legally, still have a relationship, but it’s starting from new, and to try this way on and maybe keep it that way forever.

I know that sounds extreme. It’s not end us, but let’s end this relationship. We were mono when it was created and now we are poly, it just doesn’t fit anymore. I can’t pick up the pieces of what was and try to move that forward. I need it to start anew or not at all.

*Is there benefit to the above paragraph? I think for me, there is, emotionally and intellectually.
*How to present it, without bassman, taking it as an ultimatum? I don’t think it is one but he has never done well with life changes, whether from circumstance or his own choice.

His side on this he has said about me: When you aren’t involved with someone or happy about maybe a new person in your life, you aren’t happy with me and we just don’t treat each other right. He says this hurts him: that when I am happy by other activity in my life, I am more engaging with him, happy and more loving.

I really think deep down that this fuck with me weekend may come from him having issues of me having a poly guy come visit me this upcoming weekend. I’m not saying this is why bassman did this to me. I do know he struggled last weekend with my date with mechanic. Yes he is in a relationship with another but is not okay with me getting serious about someone. He struggles more than he thought he would. LOL and how would he know if he’d struggle since my dating world had been pretty absent during tax season.

*How do I present to him that aside from not wanting to deal with consequences, the pain inflicted, intentionally (yes I say it was intentional – he knew what he did, lying, would do to me and he admits he also realized that wild orchid’s hurt was no different than mine in the past months but he made choices all the way around to not console mine) was actually his reaction to this next weekend, that he actually tried to sabotage it, getting me into a state that I would cancel and be solely focused on “us” on “him”. I do believe this to be true. IT sounds frickin crazy to me, maybe a bit off and due to possibly being “bi-polar” or something?

Drained, I feel that now. It was good to get it down and I’m sorry if some is venting but I’m trying to stay focused and logical. As far as my weekend to have Wolfe over and stay here, that is still on. I realized when I did go there in my thoughts that although I am struggling in one relationship which could end, that I can be happy (as I have been in my conversations with Wolfe this weekend) in a newly developing one while I’m trying to sort out the shit of another.

The * are I believe questions I have regarding the two issues presented above: being lied to over and over and being treated less than.

Ask me questions I will try to respond when I can. And to all the mother’s out there HAPPY MOTHER’S DAY!

Last edited by alibabe_muse; 05-11-2014 at 10:24 PM.
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Old 05-11-2014, 10:14 PM
copperhead copperhead is offline
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Sounds like you are going through a lot. I'm sorry to hear that things are so hard for you right now.

Right now I'm too tired to thoroughly think through all your questions, but I wanted to share a quote I saved after my relationship ended (due to being lied to and cheated on).

Quote:
http://www.truthaboutdeception.com/c...use.html#19288

...lying is a form of psychological and emotional abuse in that it is hurtful to the person being lied to, insults their intelligence and is a sign that the liar doesn't have enough respect for you to be honest and truthful. Just from my own experience, I think being lied to is an assault on my dignity. It sends a message that I am not deserving of the truth, and if done repeatedly, definitely takes its toll on my self-esteem. Every time the liar lies to me he/she is saying: You're not worthy of the truth. And every time I forgive and forget that lie, knowing full well the liar will continue to lie to me, I am diminished just a little more as a person and my pride, self-worth and self-respect are equally diminished. So it's a lot like battered-wife syndrome, the more you stick around and take it, the lower your self-esteem sinks until you are an empty shell devoid of feelings. You simply have to harden to it to survive in the relationship. So you cope by subconsciously agreeing with the liar in believing that you don't deserve to be treated with respect and dignity, thus becoming more and more a victim, and more dependent on them. It's a downward spiral.
This resonated with me and I only took a year of lying. It's hard to even imagine what two decades can do to a person

Also this article might help figure out where you stand (found the link in GalaGirls blog) http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/selfrespect.htm
Are you treating yourself in a self-respecting way?

And a third resource I want to offer you is a list from my blog http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showp...7&postcount=19
It's basically stuff I will not put up with in future relationships. Do you have such a list? Do you know what your boundaries are? Do you respect them?

Hang in there, I hope you find your answers and that things work out for you.
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Me: female, solo poly, two children.
Mir: Lover-friend, with wife and child
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Old 05-11-2014, 10:36 PM
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alibabe_muse alibabe_muse is offline
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@ Copperhead - thank you for the quote and link. Got the tears rolling a little, but that's good as it does help with the healing process too. I have read your lists but will go over again and create mine. I also bookmarked the link from Galagirl and as well plan to read it.

Bassman is staying at work to have a beer with the boss but is home soon. Not sure what will be entailed. Before bed tonight he has an assignment to outline how I can start to not feel less than. As I said, the WOW was discussed last night. He explained that because in the past (like years before poly) I wasn't communicative with him (interesting....is it because I lost self-esteem because I began to believe him I wasn't worthy) and that I no longer trusted him, I never asked for consolation (kinda hard when he was he one causing the pain) and when I did in the last few months, he didn't know how to respond. Not sure to call the explanation bullshit or accept that it's true. So I will read but may not get through all of it, just not sure the time we'll have our next discussion either.
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Old 05-11-2014, 11:09 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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I'm so sorry you hurt.

Let me repeat back the highlights as I understand them so I know I got it, ok? Correct me if I am wrong.
  • Been lied to for 21 years.
  • Have recently reached my personal limit of tolerance with the lying.
    • It usually is discovered, comes out, found out naturally
    • although I might have been upset by being told a truth my upsetness would have been less that being lied to
    • I’m not allowed to grow
    • makes me feel as if I'm feeble minded, unable to cope with reality in his eyes
    • the lie just makes the pain that much more, that much heavier to bear
    • As the one being lied to, I then have self-doubts, loses some self-esteem, pride even, and self-hate.
  • I wish to be free of those things.
  • He is not willing or able to stop with the lies. They are a part of his character.
  • I do not feel valued in this relationship. I feel "less than."
  • After the most recent lie, I told him I wanted a divorce.
  • He came home and basically agrees, says he's not in love with me any more.

MY PROPOSED SOLUTION
  • I am willing to consider divorcing, but still being in relationship/dating each other.

How does that solve you wanting to no longer be exposed to the lying behavior? It doesn't line up with this:

Quote:
My spouse, bassman, has been a liar since he was a kid. Never disciplined for it, enabled quite a bit from his momma and this behavior has been a part of him ever since we first started dating almost 21 years ago this month.
Could deal with things one step at a time.
  • Secure the divorce first.
  • Get stable from that change.
  • See what life is like without lies.
  • Deal with your "today things" first.
  • Worry about "future things" in FUTURE. I would put "reconsider dating him again" in the "future bucket." Signing up for more of same doesn't sound healthy for you.

HIS PROPOSED SOLUTION:

?

EXTRA STUFF
  • I also think he is deliberately sabotaging my date coming up by creating a hooha now. Then I'm all upset going into the date.

Possible, but not really relevant to "divorce" topic. That's a side topic for "staying together" -- not in the "divorce" bucket.

ASSIGNMENT

Quote:
Before bed tonight he has an assignment to outline how I can start to not feel less than.
Is the plan "divorce" or "stay together?" You could get clear on the mission here.

He cannot control your feelings. He controls his behaviors. I do not understand why his assignment is about your feelings rather than his behaviors he could start/stop doing to hold up his end of the stick. The stick is "divorce" right?

If the main thing on the table is "navigate a divorce" -- why is his assignment not divorce related? To me it sounds like divorce. He's not in love with you, and you are at limit reached.

I think "how do I want to get through mediation peacefully" might be the more effective "assignment" for each of you. Especially if you download your forms for your area and practice filling them out for mediation.

There's other stuff in your posts, but the bottom line still seems to be:
  • He is not in love with you. Does not treat you well/how you want to be treated.
  • You are not happy here. You love him, but it isn't enough. You aren't being treated how you want to be treated.

So could get you guys through this transition cleanly, quickly and split. Then you can get to the healing place sooner and start to heal.

I know this is hard and painful, but if in 21 years you guys haven't solved it? The odds for solving it now sound very low to me.

Hang in there!

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 05-12-2014 at 12:10 AM.
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Old 05-12-2014, 12:03 AM
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alibabe_muse alibabe_muse is offline
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@ Galagirl - after said not in love he said he still loves just not our energy level we put, each of us, into the home. He wants to stay together. I am torn. He's suggested talks and goals to work on us. I am conflicted, thus getting it out here and thank you for your advice. The assignment is exactly his behaviors and mine is what could be my response to it.
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Old 05-12-2014, 12:17 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Quote:
He wants to stay together. I am torn. He's suggested talks and goals to work on us.
And his Word and follow-through are trustworthy now because...you decided to leave?

Quote:
I am conflicted, thus getting it out here and thank you for your advice. The assignment is exactly his behaviors and mine is what could be my response to it.
So this assignment is "decide where we want to go next? To actually divorce or stay together?" I'm confused on that.

Again, if it hasn't been solved in 21 years, I think you could accept this IS what you get here. You are not happy here.

How much confidence do you have in him changing his behaviors much?
  • Is it enough confidence to try again?
  • Or too little confidence for you to give your continued investment?

You are conflicted -- like you want to believe it could change. But having a hard time believing it will actually change.

That sounds like a vote of no confidence to me.

I'm so sorry. This sounds terrible.

Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 05-12-2014 at 12:33 AM.
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Old 05-12-2014, 05:46 AM
InfinitePossibility InfinitePossibility is offline
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I just wanted to say how sad I feel for you. I have been following your blog and thought that things had seemed better between you and bassman recently.

I would think that after such a long period of time of lying habitually it would be hard for bassman to change even if he wanted to but I don't read anything in your words that indicate him seeing himself as a somebody who lies a lot. If he doesn't see the problem himself, he isn't likely to be able to do the work to change his behaviour.

He is probably lying regularly to Wild Orchid too. If this is something he does regularly with those close to him, it is unlikely that it's directed just at you.

I wish you luck in getting through this.
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Old 05-12-2014, 06:37 AM
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kdt26417 kdt26417 is offline
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Hi alibabe_muse,

If bassman is a compulsive liar, and the problem is getting worse, not better, to the point where it is driving you out of your mind (and pushing you to the point of many tears), then it seems to me that he desperately needs to get some personal help from a professional therapist. He needs to learn how to stop lying, and it sounds like the problem is just about as deeply ingrained in him as any of us could possibly imagine.

Usually when things get "this bad" -- I define "this bad" as "bad enough that you feel like you want to end the relationship" -- I recommend setting a date that represents the maximum amount of time you think you can and should continue to endure things as they are with no improvement. You tell your partner (bassman) about that date and what it entails. If the date arrives and you see no significant/promising improvement to the situation, you end the relationship.

On the other hand, you mused that perhaps the weight of being legally married is clouding your thoughts and perhaps his as well. I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea to legally divorce. You said it yourself, you guys are dealing with a polyamorous life now anyway, not a monogamous life. And sure your relationship could use a "reset button" at this point. So I wouldn't rule that out, if it's something bassman might go along with willingly. But regardless, it seems to me that bassman needs professional help for his compulsive lying. Of course, no professional can help him if he doesn't see the problem and isn't willing to get help.

If he's completely uncooperative, you'll have a really rough dilemma on your hands because you have kids. You'll end up with a choice between a really messy divorce, or keeping things just the way they are at least until the kids are all grown and moved out into homes of their own. The question is, how will keeping things just the way they are affect you? Will your emotional stability remain intact? Will you be able to continue to be a good mother to your kids? and perhaps the toughest question is, will you be setting the kind of example for your kids that will benefit them as they grow older? Will they understand that they need to stand up for themselves when their boundaries are violated? Will they understand the importance of telling the truth, and being told the truth?

Re (from OP):
Quote:
"If I decide that options for change are not enough, am I giving up too easily?"
If you can't trust him, you have to at least trust yourself. There's giving up too easily, and then there's clinging too hard to what you're used to. You don't want to make either of those mistakes.

Re (from Post #2):
Quote:
"How do I get over this?"
I wish I knew the answer to that. Time. Counseling if possible. Support from the forum here. If bassman sees you as a worthless person, then he is in the wrong and it's his opinion that's worthless. I don't expect you to be able to believe that now, at least not emotionally, but hearing a number of people say it over time might give you the strength to climb out of the well he's pushed you into.

Re:
Quote:
"How do I present to him that aside from not wanting to deal with consequences, the pain inflicted, intentionally, was actually his reaction to this next weekend, that he actually tried to sabotage it, getting me into a state that I would cancel and be solely focused on 'us' on 'him.'"
Do you need to present that to him? Do you need him to validate it in order to preserve your own sense of sanity? Wouldn't it be better if you could just say, "I, alibabe_muse, trust my own judgment on this one." I know I trust it.

And besides, what kind of presentation would you be shooting for? something that would soothe (read: trick) him into validating your concerns? I don't know whether such a presentation exists, but if it does, it can't be a good thing. You need him to admit the truth without you having to beg (using "magic words" of some sort). It should suffice for you to tell him what you suspect, with a simple query about whether you suspect correctly. And maybe that would suffice, but I wouldn't recommend putting my sense of sanity in his hands. He might validate your suspicions, and he might just as likely deny them. You need the strength to trust your own judgment without his help.

I think the big question here, though, is, are you mostly just venting, or are you seriously thinking that you are at your breaking point and are going to break up with him? Who knows, just sleeping on it may make it possible for you to awaken with a happier outlook on the situation. People say things when they're upset. Sometimes they say things that they don't really mean, at least not beyond the moment in which they say it. Maybe that's all bassman's done. But you have to consider his actions too.

I don't know how new his relationship with Wild Orchid is. Maybe he's in the thick of NRE and it's affecting his actions, perception, and judgment. If that's what the problem is, then it might clear up on its own after a few months or years.

In any case, he's not doing right by you now and something's gotta give. I know it's easier to stick with the tried-and-true day-by-day, but don't rule out the possibility of making some major changes especially if things keep getting worse.

Sympathetically,
Kevin T.
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Old 05-12-2014, 09:59 AM
copperhead copperhead is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alibabe_muse View Post
I accept he has his reasons to lie - and that's a crutch of loving him, but I don't know if I can let myself be a victim of it anymore. This is where I believe I need ADVICE:
He might not have a reason, if he is a habitual liar, like it sounds. I had a chance to go through all the lies Salamander had told me and ask for his reasons, and it turned out he himself didn't understand why he had lied. There certainly was nothing to be gained by lying, just everything to lose. Lying doesn't have to make any sense, at least to someone who doesn't lie. As you try to figure out whether it's better to stay or leave, you might want to think if you can live a life where the only thing you can trust is being lied to. It can be a form of trust, it can give you some support as you raise your children in this marriage, but is it something you want to do? Do you have the strenght to do it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alibabe_muse View Post
* How healthy is it to remain in a relationship with a liar - the liar has not offered up resolutions to making the relationship healthier?
* How healthy is it to remain in a relationship with a liar - the liar has offered up resolutions to making the relationship healthier?
* What is constituted healthier? I ask because I am in a highly emotional state and realize my bias will always outweigh an ability to see both sides of a story.
At this point? It seems that either way, staying with a iar is not very healthy for you, but it could be that you are temporarily overwhelmed. And you do realize, that you are at the first *, the second one has not happened. Are you willing to wait for it? How long? And then how long would you give time for the learning process? I stayed too long in my marriage, because I was always thinking that after x things will be better. The x kept changing, but the problems didin't. One day I realized that the situation just wouldn't change unless I changed it. So we divorced before we started to hate each other. This was really important because of the children and because I didn't want to lose the friend I have in my ex-husband. Divorce doesn't have to be a disaster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alibabe_muse View Post
* If I decide that options for change are not enough, am I giving up to easily? I love him so frickin much but in the last two days have realized I haven’t trusted him and that’s been for a long, long time.
How many more decades would you give, before you felt it wasn't too easily? You have tried a lot longer than I did to find a solution and to live life the way that doesn't feel good. I think the bigger risk here is that you'll end up tryin too hard and hurting yourself even more. But only you can know where the line is for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alibabe_muse View Post
* If I decide the options for change (and that’s in both of us because there are other issues involved) are possible to enable and promote healthier, happier individuals that will benefit the dyad and in turn bless our family (NOTE: kids are healthy, happy, not involved with any of this I am their protector and nurturer so no worries on them in all this at this moment) do I set up a timeline for when “goals” need to be accomplished? And do I create a tickler list of what we set up and let’s say that by X time only 2/10 goals were accomplished or 8/10 do we need to create a percentage that says “we will continue forward” or “we will not continue forward”? If so, how do I explain it to bassman?
Definitely a timeline! And precise measurable goals/boundaries. You could do a percentage, but also decide that some goals are not negotiable, they must be met.

I hope you are feeling better and less overwhelmed. There has been so many great answers here.
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