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  #11  
Old 05-29-2014, 12:14 PM
KC43 KC43 is offline
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Doing my best to stay out of the conflict I mentioned in my last post. The friendship between Best Friend and the woman has pretty much disintegrated, so now I'm just being a leaning post for BF while he gets used to not having her in his life.

I've gotten a couple of interesting emails on OKCupid. One guy I would be interested in meeting if the conversation continues. The other guy, the conversation tapered off because I refused to give him details about my sex life with Hubby. Ugh.

Been at odds with Hubby this week because of finances. Not so much because we're struggling, but because he doesn't want to help me figure out how to fix the problem. We're doing okay now, but earlier this week was not fun at all. This is the issue with sharing a home/life/bank account... Not that I would trade it, I just wish Hubby would find a way of solving problems that doesn't involve hiding and hoping the problem goes away.

Had a long talk with Guy yesterday about my concerns about him talking to and possibly seeing the other woman. I will never tell him he can't talk to her or see her; I don't have anything against her, and they've been friends longer than Guy has known me. But when irrational fear gets stuck in my head, I've learned to talk to someone about it, and Guy understands that because of my anxiety disorder and depression, I can't always control those fears. I can recognize they're irrational, but sometimes I need help shaking them.

He said she hasn't been talking to him as much as it sounded like to me, and that he's been the one initiating most of the conversations, in preparation for seeing her at the band concert. He also said, "Remember, you have me, she doesn't" and when I told him I was afraid that if she got pissed off at me about the issue between her and Best Friend, or if she gets it into her head that the relationship isn't fair to Guy, she might try to convince Guy to break up with me. (Typing that, I can see how little sense that makes, but again... anxiety disorder.) Guy said our relationship is no one's business but mine, his, and Hubby's, and that he would never end the relationship just on someone else's say-so.

And then he said the best thing ever: "Remember, knowledge is certainty. You know I love you and am with you, so cling to that when fear starts to rear its head."

I'm really, really fortunate...
__________________
Me: 44, cis-het female, poly
Hubby: my husband, 41, monogamous
Guy: my LDR boyfriend, 43, rebukes all labels
S2: male, 44, seeing where things go
Best Friend: male, 37, platonic; the one who keeps me sane through all this!
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  #12  
Old 06-01-2014, 02:22 PM
KC43 KC43 is offline
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Yesterday I went to the wedding of an old friend of mine to her girlfriend. I didn't know many people there; most were friends or relatives of the girlfriend, or people the two of them know in their area.

But two women were there whom I knew in high school. One of them, I lost touch with when she graduated two years ahead of me (making it about 28 years ago!); the other graduated three years ahead of me but I saw her occasionally after that because she was briefly married to one of my dad's cousins.

I had a great conversation with them about pretty much everything. I'd always gotten along with them, but we have more in common belief-wise and life-wise now than we did back then.

I told both of them about my situation with Hubby and Guy. The first woman said it's cool as long as everyone agrees and no one's coercing anyone or giving in on things they'd rather not do. The second one hugged me and said, "I am so happy for you and proud of you, and you deserve having this good in your life. Congratulations!"

I also "came out" to my dad yesterday. My mother has known for almost a year about Guy, but kept telling me not to tell my dad because "he wouldn't understand." My dad used to have three male friends who lived as a triad for nearly two decades; it isn't something he's unfamiliar with. I've been staying in the hotel where Dad works this weekend, because it's halfway between my home and where my friend's wedding was, so yesterday I found him on his meal break and told him.

He rolled his eyes a few times, grimaced a few times, and asked me more than once if Hubby knew about Guy and was really okay with it (and grimaced more when I said Hubby figured out how I felt about Guy before I was willing to admit it, and told me it was all okay), but he didn't react negatively. I think, knowing my dad, that part of his reaction was due to TMI factor more than to the actual situation. I was visiting him and my mom Friday night before I checked into the hotel and mentioned Guy a couple of tmes, but I wasn't comfortable with my dad thinking Guy was just a friend of the family or something. I'm not telling EVERYONE who Guy really is in my life, but I want people who are a big part of my life (like my parents) to know. And I'm slowly telling people I think might be okay with it, like the women at the wedding, because the more I tell people and get positive reactions, the more I'll be able to cope with negative reactions if any come up, if that makes sense.

Meanwhile, my mom keeps saying things like "You have to be careful that you don't treat Guy like he's equal to Hubby. You have to protect Hubby's feelings and not let him think he isn't important. You have to be careful what you say to him about Guy." Um... NO, I actually don't. Guy IS equal to hubby in terms of his role in my life, and Hubby knows it and completely accepts it. Hubby is abundantly capable of telling me if I say too much about Guy or tell him something that makes him feel hurt or uncomfortable, and Hubby has told me many times to say what I want to and not worry about his feelings, he'll tell me if I cross any line.

My mother pretends to be open-minded and stuff, but honestly, she's part of the "women exist to serve men" mindset. My first marriage was abusive, including one incident of sexual assault, and every time including that one incident, my mother told me it was my fault because I wasn't trying hard enough to make the marriage work and I wasn't making my then-husband feel good enough about himself to keep him from acting that way. For whatever reason, she believes women do not have an existence, let alone a life, separate from their husbands, and must be subservient in all ways to the man even if it causes her harm.

Which is bull, and there are times when I want to grab her, shake her, and tell her to get a frigging LIFE that does'nt involve being my father's wife. (To give my dad full credit, he does NOT like that my mother acts this way, and has no desire to have her be subservient to him in any manner, but he accepts it as an unchangeable part of her personality. Though he did go off on her massively when he found out about what my first husband did to me and learned that I stayed in that marriage for 11 more years after the one incident because I had no resources to get out on my own, and my mother refused to help me and told me not to tell my dad anything about it.)
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Me: 44, cis-het female, poly
Hubby: my husband, 41, monogamous
Guy: my LDR boyfriend, 43, rebukes all labels
S2: male, 44, seeing where things go
Best Friend: male, 37, platonic; the one who keeps me sane through all this!
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  #13  
Old 06-05-2014, 12:20 PM
KC43 KC43 is offline
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I talked to Hubby about what my mother said, because I wanted to make sure he knew he could tell me if he had any issues regarding my relationship with Guy.

His response was, "I don't have a single problem with it. I'm HAPPY that Guy is in our lives. He makes you happy, and that's what I want. And it's comforting to me to know if something ever happened to me, you would still have him. So tell your mother to back off." (Which I did.)

I've been leaning on Guy a lot this week because I've been struggling with household/marriage-related stuff that I can't talk to Hubby about. Some of it's stuff he doesn't want to hear about (like finances) and some of it's stuff he isn't able to be supportive about (like my 15-year-old acting like he and I are just ATM and food machines and otherwise aren't worth her time or respect, which is an ongoing issue that her dad and stepmom also experience because she's going through adolescence while navigating life with Asperger's). Hubby knows I talk to Guy about these things; that's another reason he's glad Guy is around, because I have someone else I trust enough to talk to about problems. Guy is able to give support and sometimes advice because he isn't involved in the finances so isn't emotionally affected by those issues; and he also has a child with Asperger's, though his son is only 7 and hasn't been officially diagnosed yet, plus he's been in the situation of having a teenage stepdaughter, so he can empathize with both me and Hubby regarding my daughter.

I've also been having other problems that Hubby doesn't quite understand, because he can only see how *he* would respond to them and can't comprehend the way *I* respond. Guy comprehends, so he's been more supportive and comforting about that too.

Guy has a knack for saying some of the sweetest things... Last night when I was talking to him about all the stuff piling up on me emotionally, I told him I wished he was with me holding me while I talked. He said, "Baby, I *am* there with you holding you."

On another note, I don't usually like it when men call me "baby" even if I'm dating them... Guy is allowed, though. "Honey" is Hubby's pet name for me, so I wouldn't feel right if Guy also called me that (plus that isn't a word Guy would use), and Guy tends to call most of his female friends "Darlin." He wanted to call me something that was exclusive to me.
__________________
Me: 44, cis-het female, poly
Hubby: my husband, 41, monogamous
Guy: my LDR boyfriend, 43, rebukes all labels
S2: male, 44, seeing where things go
Best Friend: male, 37, platonic; the one who keeps me sane through all this!
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  #14  
Old 06-14-2014, 03:36 PM
KC43 KC43 is offline
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Wow... some people just do not ever outgrow high school.

The woman I've mentioned a few times now (I'm gonna call her Betty, for no reason other than that's the first thing that popped into my head and I'm tired of just calling her "the woman")... erg. Yeah.

I mentioned a while back that I was envious of Betty because of what I perceive as her confidence, don't-give-a-crap attitude, and sexual openness. And I mentioned that I was worried about Hubby and/or Guy deciding they liked her better than me, despite the fact that Hubby has barely talked to her in months and Guy keeps reassuring me that would never happen.

She and Best Friend no longer speak, and BF has found a new girlfriend. (I'm meeting her for the first time this afternoon, because I'm an important part of BF's life and she's an important part of his life, so he wants us to be friends.) Because BF has been realizing how many times Betty lied to him or hid things from him during their relationship, and has had others telling him how much she badmouthed him behind his back, he's chosen to stop holding *some* of her secrets. Mainly ones that are about other people. The other night he asked me, if he was afraid that Betty intended to hurt someone emotionally or cause problems for them, should he tell that person. When I said if he thought Betty would actually do something instead of just blowing off steam then he should speak up, he said, "Well, don't trust Betty."

Apparently before I went to visit Guy in April, Betty ranted about me to BF because I was "abandoning" my husband and kids "to fuck someone for a weekend." And she implied that she intended to try to break up Guy and me, which explains all of her thinly veiled hints to me that she's planning to hook up with Guy while she's in his area with the band on tour. She's working both sides; trying to make me believe Guy's hiding something because she knows dishonesty is one of my berserk buttons, and trying to make Guy believe that she's better than I am.

And when I told Guy that BF has been telling me a few things Betty said about me, Guy said, "Yeah, after you visited me she told me she was 'appalled' that you had come out here so soon after you and Hubby's wedding anniversary and that she didn't think you should be doing things like that." That was a couple nights ago; last night, Guy told me that in addition to saying that, Betty told him that if she saw him while she was in his area, she didn't want him to tell me and wanted him to lie to me about it if I asked.

I had told all three guys (Guy, BF, and Hubby) about my jealousy/envy issues regarding Betty, and all of them were reassuring me. But they had also said some negative things about her, and I couldn't quite understand why. And I didn't understand why Guy, who at first was like "Yay, Betty's going to be in my area, we can hook up" had suddenly changed to "I don't care if I see her, if I get to go to the concert it's only to see the band, my world doesn't revolve around Little Miss Betty."

NOW I understand. I've always known Betty is the type who will smile to your face while reaching around to your back with a knife. She has bipolar and possibly borderline personality disorder, and she's very much of the "I have my own rules for me, but everyone else has to follow these other rules" mindset. (For example, she'll talk behind anyone's back and sees no problem with it, but if she finds out anyone has talked about her, even if they've only said GOOD things, she blows a gasket.)

She bitches about people causing drama, but she'll... well, witness what she did to Guy and me, playing both sides of the game trying to make each of us think the other one was hiding something or wasn't good enough. And then there was all the nasty stuff she posted on Facebook about BF, in which she never named him but dropped enough info that everyone who knew them, knew who she was talking about. But she claims she hates drama and never engages in it. And she claims to hate liars, but has obviously been dishonest to me, has asked Guy to be dishonest to me, and BF and I have uncovered at least three things involving Guy, Hubby, and me that Betty lied to BF about.

I do wish I had more confidence. I wish I could go up to a man I'm interested in and say "Hey, wanna fuck". (I can't even do that with Hubby and Guy most of the time...) I wish I could live my life the way I want to without letting other people's opinions get to me.

But I wouldn't want to live my life the way Betty lives hers. She hurts people for the fun of it, or because she believes they deserve it, or whatever. She causes rifts in relationships and marriages as well as friendships.

I almost fell into the trap of hating her and feeling "better" than her when I found out from BF and Guy what she's been up to behind my back, but that isn't me. And that's the point. I don't hurt anyone deliberately, and if I find out I have hurt someone, I want to fix it. I admit I talk behind people's backs, but it's usually "She did this, and wow that's a cruddy thing to do, but she's a good person because she also did that." Still not necessarily okay, but not completely shredding someone and trying to turn other people against them, which is what Betty tries to do. But that doesn't mean I'm a better person than she is. She and I each have different issues, and she has a different way of behaving and dealing with her issues than what I have.

I feel a little sorry for her, because almost everyone who knows her, knows that she does this kind of thing, and because of it, very few people trust her. (Even before I found out all of this, I never completely trusted her, but I'd chalked it up to the fact that I have trust issues and never completely trust anyone.)

By badmouthing me, she began the process of alienating BF, though their friendship didn't completely fall apart until she turned to badmouthing him. She has alienated Guy, who was one of the few people she could talk to about her issues; he hates people who are dishonest, he hates being dishonest, and he is not impressed with anyone who puts me down or tries to hurt me. He says he's still her friend and will still talk to her, but he's sick of her drama and doesn't really want her as much of a part of his life. And Hubby, who has been friendly to her when we see her even though they don't talk much, has completely written her off; even though she wasn't foolish enough to try to turn *him* against me or badmouth me to him, just knowing what she said to BF and Guy is enough for Hubby to consider her nonexistent.

(And for anyone who's wondering, though I don't know if anyone actually reads this blog, the band's tour dates in Guy's city were changed; instead of three dates, one of which was on a day of the week that he might have been able to make it, they're now only doing one date, and it's a day that he has to work third shift and can't take off. So he won't be going to the show.)

I still intend to be friendly with Betty if I see her at parties and such...guardedly so, more guarded than I have been, but even though she's apparently said all these things behind my back, she's been friendly to me when we've seen each other since she said all these things. And in the past, she's helped and listened when I've been dealing with problems. So she's racked up a few goodwill points in my book; not enough to completely offset what I've learned, but enough for me to still be friendly to her when I encounter her.

Meanwhile, she went to two of the three men who care most about me of anyone in my life, and tried to turn them against me... and it backfired on her. And it somewhat amuses me that not only did she not think they would have a problem with the things she said about me, she actually believed they would AGREE with her.
__________________
Me: 44, cis-het female, poly
Hubby: my husband, 41, monogamous
Guy: my LDR boyfriend, 43, rebukes all labels
S2: male, 44, seeing where things go
Best Friend: male, 37, platonic; the one who keeps me sane through all this!
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  #15  
Old 06-15-2014, 06:21 AM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC43 View Post
Wow... some people just do not ever outgrow high school.
My friend, Angel, and I have commented on this...when we were in high school/college we used to look forward to the day when we were "real adults" and wouldn't have to deal with people playing these stupid games. Then we "grew up" and got real jobs with responsibilities and found that...damn it, people were STILL playing these stupid games.

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Originally Posted by KC43 View Post
She bitches about people causing drama, but she'll... But she claims she hates drama and never engages in it. And she claims to hate liars...
Yup, they can't see it in themselves. Because their dramas are REAL (to them) and other people are...just not important.

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Originally Posted by KC43 View Post
I do wish I had more confidence. I wish I could go up to a man I'm interested in and say "Hey, wanna fuck". (I can't even do that with Hubby and Guy most of the time...) I wish I could live my life the way I want to without letting other people's opinions get to me.

But I wouldn't want to live my life the way Betty lives hers. She hurts people for the fun of it, or because she believes they deserve it, or whatever. She causes rifts in relationships and marriages as well as friendships.
You can work on not "letting other people's opinions get to me" without turning into Betty. Those are not the only two options! I don't really have an issue with confidence/insecurity and I only actually care about the opinions of people that I respect (everyone else can take a flying leap as far as I am concerned). But if I behaved as Betty does - from what you are describing she hurts people because she can, it gives her a sense of power - I would not respect myself - hurting other people to boost your sense of self, or out of indifference, or whatever, is NOT respectable behavior in my book.

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Originally Posted by KC43 View Post
I almost fell into the trap of hating her and feeling "better" than her ... but that isn't me. And that's the point. I don't hurt anyone deliberately, and if I find out I have hurt someone, I want to fix it... But that doesn't mean I'm a better person than she is. She and I each have different issues, and she has a different way of behaving and dealing with her issues than what I have.
Yes. You are a decent human being (at least from what I can tell reading your posts here) - you recognize that your words/actions/decisions affect other people, and you care. Does that make you a "better" person? It really depends on whose "scale" you are using for "better" - I know who I, personally, would be more likely to enjoy spending time with (that's you, in case you missed it ).

Now, maybe, unbeknownst to you she rescues abused puppies, donates all her money to charity and reads to the blind. Maybe she suffered horrible abuse that I can't even fathom and that has led to her current state. I don't know. BUT, just because someone is a "good person" or has overcome horrendous circumstances, does NOT mean that we have to befriend them or allow them to have significant influence in our lives. If the association is not a positive one for you ... you can choose to let it go.

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Originally Posted by KC43 View Post
I feel a little sorry for her, because almost everyone who knows her, knows that she does this kind of thing, and because of it, very few people trust her. (Even before I found out all of this, I never completely trusted her, but I'd chalked it up to the fact that I have trust issues and never completely trust anyone.)
This is the type of "non-mystical karma" that I believe...we reap the consequences of the behaviour we sow. She behaves in untrustworthy ways (for whatever reasons) and, then, people don't trust her. That is her choice. Perhaps she is fine with people not trusting her. Perhaps the behavior (unhealthy as it seems to us) is more important to her than trust. Perhaps...lots of things. In this particular case you did not trust an untrustworthy person...you can learn from this. Not all of your "trust issues" are unwarranted...you might just need to learn how to "fine tune" your "trust-worthy" sensor.

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Originally Posted by KC43 View Post
...I don't know if anyone actually reads this blog
Well, I do (and from the "view" numbers I am not the only one)! (We don't tend to comment on the blogs unless a question is asked - it's the only part of the forum where people are given "personal space" to tell their stories and vent. )

Quote:
Originally Posted by KC43 View Post
I still intend to be friendly with Betty if I see her at parties and such...guardedly so, more guarded than I have been, but even though she's apparently said all these things behind my back, she's been friendly to me when we've seen each other since she said all these things. And in the past, she's helped and listened when I've been dealing with problems. So she's racked up a few goodwill points in my book; not enough to completely offset what I've learned, but enough for me to still be friendly to her when I encounter her.
I completely agree with this. I tend to place more credence in how people have interacted with me personally than in what anyone else says they said/did...but you do keep that in the back of your mind. In your shoes, I would move her to the "acquaintance" level, be civil and kind, but be mindful and NOT provide her with any ammunition to use to sabotage your, or anyone else's relations.

I think you are doing a really good job here in analyzing her interactions with the people you know and care about without flying off the handle.

Just my take on what you have written...

JaneQ
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Me: poly bi female, in an "open-but-not-looking" Vee-plus with -
MrS: hetero polyflexible male, live-in husband (together 21+ yrs)
Dude: hetero poly male, live-in boyfriend (together 3+ yrs) and MrS's best friend
Lotus: poly bi female, "it's complicated" relationships with Dude/JaneQ/MrS
TT: poly bi male, married to Lotus, FB with JaneQ
VV and MsJ: bi-women with male primaries, LTR LDR FWBs to JaneQ


My poly blogs on this site:
The Journey of JaneQSmythe
The Notebook of JaneQSmythe

Last edited by JaneQSmythe; 06-15-2014 at 06:27 AM. Reason: clarity...and closed parentheticals
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  #16  
Old 06-15-2014, 03:11 PM
KC43 KC43 is offline
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Thanks, Jane. I appreciate your response. (And I know people sometimes read without commenting... I was more being a wiseass about that, but humor doesn't translate in print...)

Betty has bipolar disorder and possibly other mental health issues as well, and some of the qualities I perceived her as having (confidence, not giving a shit about opinions, etc.), according to Guy is more false bravado than how she really is. I don't know much about her past. I know that *my* past includes a lot of abuse, by people including my mother, grandmother, and first husband. For me personally, I made the choice when I was still a child that I wouldn't treat anyone the way I was treated; I hated it and was scarred by it, so why would I want to do that to anyone else? But I know some people who have been through hell, either intentionally or because they don't know any better inflict that hell on others. I know Betty has trust issues as well and does some of what she does to make sure no one gets close enough to use anything against her; she's said that much to me.

I didn't mean to sound like I thought being like Betty or letting people get to me were the only options; I meant I want to become more confident and care less about other people's opinions *without* being like her.

She and I aren't close friends anyway. We were for a while last year, because she had become sexually involved with Hubby, but she got, in her words, "sick of him being clingy" (he texted or online messaged her once or twice a week to see how she was doing because she was dealing with some stress with her adult kids and with her job; apparently in her mind that was him being clingy), so she pretty much cut off communication with him.

Around the same time, through the conversations they did have, Hubby realized how manipulative and back-stabby she can be, plus we had problems in our marriage because of her, so he'd decided not to talk to her anymore. (She was not the direct cause of the problems; Hubby chose to lie to me twice about his desire and feelings for her, which not only broke the agreements we had established for the open marriage, but... did I mention I have trust issues? And those are the only two times Hubby has EVER lied to me as far as I know. That's been my concern about her as far as Hubby goes; he lied to me twice about her already, so how could I trust that he isn't going to decide to start sleeping with her--and lying to me--again? But Betty wasn't aware that Hubby was doing this.) So now we only run into her at parties sometimes, and that's the only contact.

In other news, I spent yesterday with Best Friend and his new girlfriend, who I'll call Star. When I used to see BF with Betty, even when they weren't actually "together", he always had this frantic, frenetic energy, like "Pay attention to me, love me, like me, I have to make Betty happy so she'll love me," and he was always deeply hurt by how she treated him in general and ignored him at parties. As he put it to me the other day, "She makes you feel like you're the luckiest person in the world to be with her, and at the same time makes you feel like you deserve it less than anyone else." Betty pretty much treated him like her sexy little boy-toy, just as a decoration who shouldn't speak or disagree with her in any way, and a lot of times she was downright cruel to him with things she said.

With Star, though, BF is confident and happy. They're physically affectionate with each other around other people, which was something Betty never allowed (and touch is BF's primary way of connecting with people). Star is 10 years older than BF (as is Betty), but watching the two of them together, it's clear that the age difference isn't a factor at all, they're completely equal and balanced. It was wonderful to see BF like that. And she's a sweetheart; I was worried she would have a problem with BF being friends with another woman, especially as close friends as BF and I are, but she treated me like her long-lost bestie and made it clear there's no jealousy issues.
__________________
Me: 44, cis-het female, poly
Hubby: my husband, 41, monogamous
Guy: my LDR boyfriend, 43, rebukes all labels
S2: male, 44, seeing where things go
Best Friend: male, 37, platonic; the one who keeps me sane through all this!

Last edited by KC43; 06-15-2014 at 03:20 PM.
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  #17  
Old 06-17-2014, 09:11 PM
KC43 KC43 is offline
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Ugh. Parents.

My mother has known that Hubby and I have an open marriage pretty much since we opened it. She hasn't been completely in favor of it, but has tried (or at least pretended to try) to understand and to accept it as being between Hubby and me.

When I told her that Guy had reached a place in my life where he was no longer just a friend with benefits, she didn't quite get it, but claimed to try to understand.

And yet I had that conversation with her a couple weeks ago in which she insisted that I shouldn't put Guy on the same level as Hubby because Hubby's feelings might be hurt, despite my having said numerous times that Hubby was not only okay with but happy about Guy being part of our lives. (And Hubby has made it very clear that Guy is part of *our* lives, not just *my* life.) Even when I told her what Hubby said in response to her concern, she still didn't get it.

Today I told her that for my birthday, I'm asking everyone who would ordinarily buy me a gift to give me the money they would spend instead so I can take another trip to visit Guy in August, when my younger kid will be with her father, my older kid will be in school full time and working almost full time, and Hubby will be working 60 or more hours per week and sleeping odd schedules (his job is year-round, but July and August are exponentially busier than the rest of the year, and he works a different shift during the summer).

She said, "You probably shouldn't do that. You were just out there."

I said, "So? I was there in April. This will be August. Four months, and after that I won't have a chance to see Guy until sometime next year because of younger kiddo's school and activities, holidays, and the fact that Guy is with his kids from December through February."

She said, "But why does that matter?"

*HEADDESK*

I tried... AGAIN... to get through her head that Guy is not just a friend, or even just a friend with benefits. That he and I have a committed relationship. That we love each other the same way Hubby and I love each other, and that Hubby is completely happy about it. And that therefore, I want to see Guy as much as possible, which isn't really very much to begin with.

This time, she at least admitted she didn't understand and was having trouble accepting it. I said, "But Dad's three friends when I was younger were in a committed triad, and you didn't have a problem with that." (My dad's male best friend from high school had a committed relationship with two other men for about 20 years, until Dad's friend passed away.)

She said, "None of them were my daughter."

I thought of a few really snarky, nasty, bitchy responses, but settled on saying, "Look at it this way. Your daughter doesn't only have *one* man who loves her completely and would do anything to take care of her. She has two. So isn't that a good thing?" I also told her I understood she's worried about me, doesn't want Hubby to feel hurt, and is worried about my kids, though she seemed to feel a little better when I said that while my younger kid hasn't been told the situation, the older one has and says she considers Guy her second stepfather.

She still doesn't get it, and she still doesn't think I should visit Guy again "so soon" even though otherwise I would just be sitting here watching TV reruns all alone because of younger kid being gone and older kid and Hubby's schedules. But she did say she would send me money for my birthday to help with the airfare...
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Me: 44, cis-het female, poly
Hubby: my husband, 41, monogamous
Guy: my LDR boyfriend, 43, rebukes all labels
S2: male, 44, seeing where things go
Best Friend: male, 37, platonic; the one who keeps me sane through all this!
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  #18  
Old 06-18-2014, 09:02 PM
KC43 KC43 is offline
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Location: Massachusetts
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I'm feeling a little jealous and petty and I'm trying not to.

On my suggestion, Guy started a profile on OKCupid. He is several hundred miles away from me, and we are in an open relationship; he has maintained his profile on the site he and I met through, but it wasn't really working for him in his current location.

He told me he signed up on OKCupid, and he has told me he's been chatting with a few people. Which is fine. I do admit to a pang or two of jealousy about that, but it's more on the side of "They'll get to see him and I won't" rather than "I don't want him to see anyone else." I suggested OKCupid to him in the first place because I *want* him to be able to find other people to spend time with since we can't get together.

The main issue I'm having sounds small, but I have depression and so my mind takes small things and comes up with all the reasons they're horrible things, which is why I'm typing this.

When he did his profile, he set his relationship status to Single. I mentioned it to him after he told me to go ahead and check out the profile, and he said it was just what it defaulted to. He also said, emphatically and more than once, that he does NOT consider himself single, because he and I are in a committed relationship.

That was a few days ago. He has said three times now that he's going to change his status, but he hasn't yet. His profile doesn't mention any type of relationship at all, and that's bothering me. I know it isn't because he's trying to pretend he isn't in a relationship. That isn't the way he operates. And I know--and have told him--that it's his profile, so what I think it should or shouldn't say doesn't matter, and really isn't any of my business.

It doesn't bother me because someone might think he's single and therefore available for a wonderful monogamous relationship. He has put on his profile that he's only looking for friends or casual sex. It bothers me because I acknowledged his existence on my OKCupid profile, and I want him to acknowledge my existence. The depression demon (Hubby's term) is whispering that it's because Guy doesn't want any potential partners to know about me, and rationally I know that isn't it. Guy has told me many times that if it wasn't for concerns about his ex-wife finding out, he would tell everyone he knows about me, and I've heard him telling coworkers about me when he and I have been on the phone.

It's just one of those things I need to get over. I know if I told him how much it's bothering me and why, he would change the relationship status on his profile, or at least add a note that he's in a relationship with me. But I would rather that if he does that, it's because *he* has chosen to and not solely because of me.
__________________
Me: 44, cis-het female, poly
Hubby: my husband, 41, monogamous
Guy: my LDR boyfriend, 43, rebukes all labels
S2: male, 44, seeing where things go
Best Friend: male, 37, platonic; the one who keeps me sane through all this!
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  #19  
Old 06-20-2014, 04:17 PM
KC43 KC43 is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 313
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The relationship status on Guy's profile finally got to me to the point where I had to talk to him about it. Fortunately for me, he and Hubby both understand that depression does wonky things to my brain sometimes, so he recognized that it wasn't me trying to control him or manipulate him. I said a few times that *I* felt like I was, but that it wasn't my intention, and he kept telling me *he* didn't feel like I was acting that way and I needed to stop being so hard on myself.

Basically, in his mind, it was a very simple issue with a very simple solution. So he changed his profile; he eliminated the section with the relationship status, body type, religion, etc. and added in a narrative bit in which he says he has a long-distance, long-term girlfriend who is also on the site.

He told me when we talked yesterday that he would change it, and to stop apologizing for asking. He didn't actually tell me he *had* changed it; I found out this morning when I was on OKC.
__________________
Me: 44, cis-het female, poly
Hubby: my husband, 41, monogamous
Guy: my LDR boyfriend, 43, rebukes all labels
S2: male, 44, seeing where things go
Best Friend: male, 37, platonic; the one who keeps me sane through all this!
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  #20  
Old 06-25-2014, 06:09 PM
KC43 KC43 is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 313
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I don't know how triggery it might be, but having many "landmines" myself, I didn't want to take any chances...

Fuck PTSD. Fuck triggers. Fuck all the people in my life who've told me I'm bad, dirty, nasty, evil, deserve to be used and abused, etc.

Fuck it all.

On Sunday night, I reached into my nightstand drawer for my vibrator. It wasn't there.

I knew where it had gone. So I called my 18-year-old and asked if she knew anything about it. To be fair, she immediately admitted she'd taken it.

And I lost my shit entirely. She had invaded my privacy. Betrayed my trust. Taken something excruciatingly personal that I don't even like people knowing I own.

She came home. I was at least smart enough to bring her into my room and close the door, and turn on white noise, before I started ranting, raving, and swearing. I felt like she had violated me.

But, to make matters worse... Somewhere in the course of ranting, I picked up my cell phone, and without realizing it hit her father's number. He heard most of what was said, including what she had taken from me. And my 15-year-old, despite the closed door, white noise, and music she was listening to in the basement, heard it all as well.

So not only was I completely and utterly humiliated by my 18-year-old going into that drawer. That wasn't bad enough. My EX-HUSBAND and younger daughter found out about something I'm not even comfortable with Hubby and Guy knowing I owned.

I was raised by a mother with very warped ideas about sex. My body was "nasty." Sex was something good people didn't have, unless they were having kids, and even then sex was bad. Women were supposed to have sex because men wanted it; women weren't supposed to want it. I lost my virginity at age 20, and my mother told me I was a slut who would "want it all the time." (This was after she made me go on the Pill at age 18, because "You'll be having sex and once you have it, you're always going to want it, so you'd better be protected.")

I was molested several times throughout my childhood by various people. I was raped at age 17. And to my mother, those were *my* fault.

And to top it all off, she walked around in a sheer nightgown and walked in on me in the bathroom and told me I had no right to expect privacy because "you don't have anything I haven't already seen".

And then my father... He couldn't cope with having a daughter. As I grew and developed, he became more and more uncomfortable, and often didn't even look at me. I can count on one hand the number of times he hugged me during my childhood and teen years. But he left Playboys lying around all over the house and wrote pornographic poetry--which he also left lying around.

Mixed messages + molestation = very negative view of sex, and the complete belief that if I even considered wanting sex, I was a horrible, vile human being.

Reinforced by my first husband, who insisted on sex with the lights off and wouldn't completely disrobe--but expected me to. Who yelled and swore at me if I made even the slightest sound during sex, and who accused me of cheating if I actually enjoyed sex but told me I hated him and made him feel like he wasn't a real man if I didn't *pretend* to enjoy it.

After I left him, I felt free to explore sexually. For the first time, I wasn't ashamed. I had learned to shut off my body during sex; I learned to turn it back on. I learned that it was okay to make noise, or not; it was MY choice.

Then I met Hubby. When we moved in together, he "forgot" for weeks at a time that sex existed. When I talked to him about it, he told me to initiate, but when I initiated, he got mad at me. When we first got together, I told him I felt like there were some things I still wanted to explore sexually (minor things, like having sex in a car) and he said he would do those with me, but after we moved in together, everything I asked was met with comments like "Only people without beds do that." To him, he was telling me he wasn't interested; to me, he was condemning me for wanting to try those things.

I lost a lot of the ground I'd gained. I learned to be afraid to ask him for anything, because he might judge me negatively. I learned that my wants and desires didn't matter, because he wasn't interested in them. I learned to wait for him to initiate sex, even if I went a month or two without, because that was better than him thinking I was a bad person.

That was a huge factor in the decision to open our marriage. By then, I had learned to speak up for myself at least to an extent, and during Yet Another Sex Discussion, I told him, "You made promises to me about helping me explore, and you've consistently not only refused, but made negative comments. My sexuality has become defined ENTIRELY by yours, and that is not fair to me."

His solution was to tell me he was okay with me going to other men to try things I was interested in trying. That made me feel worse, as if he were saying, "My wife is a slut who wants all this perverted shit, and I'm damn well not going to do it, so she can take her horny self elsewhere."

After we opened the marriage, though, for a while at least, he was willing to stretch his boundaries. He discovered a Dom side he hadn't known he possessed, which dovetailed nicely with my submissiveness. We found some sexual things that he had either forgotten he enjoyed, or had never tried and didn't know he would enjoy.

But in the back of my mind, I had--and have--trouble shaking all the voices from my past, including Hubby's, condemning and judging me. Added to which, I was having sex with men other than my husband, and "society" tells us that's wrong.

So...when I realized my 18-year-old had seen the contents of that drawer, I was horrified and humiliated, and half expected her to tell me I was disgusting and repulsive. Having my ex find out that I owned a vibrator was even worse. And having my 15-year-old, who constantly tells me I don't act like a "real mother" anyway, find out that I had that... I was just waiting for her to tell me that I'm a bad parent for owning things like that, real moms don't do that, etc.

Sunday night, I apologized to the 18-year-old for what I'd said, and to the 15-year-old for my being loud enough for her to hear. Monday, my ex called to see if things were sorted; I apologized to him as well. By then, he seemed more amused than anything, though he was a little disturbed that our daughter had stolen the vibrator. He didn't seem to be judging me for owning the thing, but that didn't matter, I was judging myself just fine.

Yesterday I lost it. Complete, utter trigger/PTSD meltdown. My privacy had been invaded. (Privacy is a hugely sensitive issue for me.) My trust had been violated. (I have massive, massive trust issues.) And I'm a parent and shouldn't be having sex or owning sex toys or enjoying sexual contact even with my own husband, let alone anyone else. I shouldn't have a boyfriend. I should just keep my legs closed and never let anyone touch me. Ever. Because it's bad and nasty and dirty and all that other shit.

I went to Hubby, who spent over an hour just holding me. But he doesn't always know how to handle me when I start spewing the crud from my past. He wants to FIX it, and he knows he can't, so he tries to avoid. I've told him when I'm like that, I don't need him to fix it, just to hold me and reassure me, but he doesn't always remember that.

Guy called and stayed on the phone with me for over an hour. When Hubby realized it was Guy on the phone, he told me, "Just let me know when he starts saying the same things I said." And because Guy and Hubby seem to share a brain, Guy did say most of the same things as Hubby.

But I couldn't shake myself out of it. I spiraled down even further. Regressed. Rocked and whimpered and tried to decide how I should hurt myself. I cleaned out the nightstand drawer and went to Hubby and said, "Is it worth keeping any of this?" He said, "No, I never really wanted to use it anyway."

That set me off worse, because not only was I bad for owning the stuff in the first place, I was bad because Hubby didn't want it, even though when I bought it he'd told me he was willing to "play" with some of it. I threw it all away, everything I'd bought over the past several years. The only thing that didn't get thrown out was the vibrator that started the whole thing, because I told my daughter to keep it since there was no way in hell I wanted it back knowing she'd used it.

All in all, it took about 6 hours, a loud argument, and a lot of tears and whimpering on my part before Hubby and I were able to put me back together. Thank God neither of my kids was home.

I'm still shaky. Hubby offered to replace the vibrator, but I don't want him to, because I don't know if I'll ever be able to trust that my daughter won't go into my room and into that drawer again. Plus I "shouldn't" have stuff like that anyway.

Usually I miss Guy, since he's so far away and I don't get to see him, but right now I'm thankful as hell for that, because I "shouldn't" even be having sex with my husband, let alone another man. And I shouldn't be in a relationship with another man, because that's "wrong" too.

I do recognize the incorrect thinking in some of what I've just typed. And I've been in counseling for years to deal with that stuff, and fortunately I have an appointment with my counselor tomorrow morning. But I don't know if I'm going to be able to get back into a positive mindset about sex, I don't know *how* to do so, and I really kind of don't want to, because if I shouldn't have sex, then I shouldn't think about it positively, because if I think about it positively, I'll want to have it.

So yeah. Ugh. And way too long post.
__________________
Me: 44, cis-het female, poly
Hubby: my husband, 41, monogamous
Guy: my LDR boyfriend, 43, rebukes all labels
S2: male, 44, seeing where things go
Best Friend: male, 37, platonic; the one who keeps me sane through all this!
Reply With Quote
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