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  #21  
Old 04-26-2014, 10:02 PM
InfinitePossibility InfinitePossibility is offline
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This is tough stuff that you're going through. The drop in your sex drive and your mild disgust are worrying symptoms.

I wonder if you are still feeling the strain of your house move and the difficulties you had with flooding over the winter. I find moving stressful and it can take me about a year to feel okay again after a move - maybe this is playing into your feelings?

I wonder also if you grieve over hopes for the future not happening. Maybe you'd hoped that by moving closer, you and Ginger could merge your lives more while he felt that having you closer meant less effort in travelling and more effort he could spend dating? Sounds like he is a man who enjoys adventure and variety in his life.

You've written also about how hard you found the news that a man you'd dated had attempted suicide. You wrote, I think, that you stopped dating around that time. I wonder if that has contributed to your need for stability in your life.

If these things may be playing a part in how horrible you are feeling, I'd guess that putting boundaries in place around how often you speak to Ginger about his dating and how much information he shares with you is a good idea. Hopefully it'll take the strain from you and allow you to feel more like yourself again. Limiting how much you see him might help also.

You need stability. If Ginger needs variety, then I think a good way to deal with it is to put good boundaries in place so that you can have what you need and Ginger can have what he needs.

I'm sure that you guys will work it out. You are so good together.

IP
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  #22  
Old 04-26-2014, 11:02 PM
graviton graviton is offline
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I also wonder if his behavior might have something to do with his age. I imagine that passing the age of 60 could possibly have been difficult for him. I know that when my dad recently did so it awakened a new zest for life in him. Maybe he is getting it while the getting is good.
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  #23  
Old 04-27-2014, 12:34 AM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Dear, dear Mags... I am sorry things feel so rough for you right now.

I was going to write this when you were wrestling with the Buddhist coming into Ginger's life, but then it seemed you felt better about it and things were lifting before it fizzled out. Anyhoo, here's what I see as a major part of the issue for you:

You know that I know... you had to kiss a lot of fucking frogs before you found Ginger. Dating was a rollercoaster, and you had many hopeful starts, only to find yourself disappointed, and to see those hopes dashed and expectations squashed over and over again. Some guys were clueless, some inconsiderate, and some just plain mean. You wanted kink, you wanted love, you wanted someone you could count on, and you wanted a little bit of domestic bliss. It took a while but eventually you met Ginger, a truly great poly guy with whom you clicked!

For a while at first, you were also dating others. You had two other male lovers, right? The Gentleman for several months, and someone else, I think? Anyway, at some point you let the others go and said, "I'm happy with only miss pixi and Ginger. More than two lovers and I'm polysaturated!" Something in you felt "settled." Been a long road, but now I found the two people I want to be with. Aaah, that's it. And then when you had threesomes with miss pixi and Ginger, it was something very new and exciting, and challenged you in some ways, but perhaps those experiences led you to see the three of you as a unit of some kind, closer, all relating well, moving forward in life together... a poly version of settling down.

So, when an opportunity came along for you to move into a house that is closer to Ginger, you did. I think you must've had expectations about how living in closer proximity to each other would kind of further "solidify" your relationship with Ginger. Maybe it's those expectations you carry around with you that he senses and feels is oppressive. You see miss pixi as a life partner, I believe, and I think you see Ginger as a life partner, too. Then, you were surprised that he wasn't spending more time with you and wanted to date other people. For some reason, you felt that his dating others takes something away from you and lessens what you mean to him. From your blog:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
miss p and I had had this, "Whee! We've moved in together and are setting up a nice little lesbian/bi/poly household" euphoria this past summer, and it just totally faded when the downstairs flooded and Ginger complicated things with Buddhist. I long for stability, feeling centered, and grounded, so much.
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Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
. . . there was just too much polysaturation going on!

. . . One thing I know, there's not much chance *I* will be dating any strangers anytime soon. That would just be crazy. I wonder if other here feel the same. Your partners' dating is so complicated, it suppresses your own desire to date more people?
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Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
I am so uninterested in dating...
Being a life partner probably means something different to Ginger than it does to you. In addition, your ability to feel stable, centered, and grounded should not hinge on anyone else's behavior. You can be the calm within the storm going on around you without letting yourself be tossed around by it. The fact is, Mags, that Ginger is a very poly guy. He did not go through the same frog-kissing you did; he did not reach a point where he said, "Okay, I'm polysaturated, let's all settle down now!" He found you, and loves you, but doesn't see a need to stop being open to more love wherever else he may find it. He didn't say, "I've got enough love, thank you very much, and don't need any more!" For some reason, you think that his wanting more means he is not satisfied and you can't understand why he doesn't have the same tolerance level for the number of relationships he can manage as you do. You wish he would apply your standard for how much is enough to his life. In your blog, you stated that there were times when he wasn't seeing how his dating others was affecting you, but I wonder how much you were affected by your own judgments about what he was doing. Expectations are always a killer.

It seems to me like you want a sort of monogamous version of polyamory. I really have this sense that it is your monogamous conditioning that, for whatever reason, really rises up in you when it comes to Ginger. Is it that you want some kind of definitive word on what your relationship is and how important you are to him? You don't go through the same kind of doubts with miss pixi that you do with Ginger, so what is different? What do you need in order to not feel threatened and sick to your stomach when he pursues someone else in that free-spirited way of his?

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Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
I am feeling distant and unbonded with Ginger . . . I feel like just one of a harem now. A revolving door or conveyor belt of pussy for him, and I am just one of them. Yuck. I said, "I don't feel special," and it didn't help when he replied, "You are all special."

A few days ago miss p and I were running an errand in his town, and I said, do you want to just drop by on Ginger so you can see his new porch? So we did and found him at home. So we were out on the porch, Ginger and I standing there with our arms around each other, and miss p sitting on the bench. We chatted, he told her details of the building process, etc.

Then we went inside his cabin and suddenly he reached out, grabbed miss p and gave her a solid kiss. He let her up for air, and said, "All I've been wanting to do since you got here was that."

Man, that hurt. He had his arm around me and all he wanted to do was grab and kiss miss p? Fuck.
I don't know why you use Ginger's poly-ness to beat yourself down. You're poly and you sought out poly partners. What I find interesting is that you don't go through these crazies with miss pixi. She has been dating and/or had other lovers all along, and you have always been able to hear what miss pixi gets into (sexually) with them, but that doesn't seem to scare or annoy you as much as when Ginger tells you what he's doing, even though you press him for the information. If you could count how many times in your blog you exclaimed "5 partners!" or "5 women!" either about him or Buddhist - something about having that many lovers really rubs you the wrong way. You expressed a few judgments about some of the people he was interested in, saying not-very-nice things about them or wondering if they were worthy of him (even though, frankly, whomever he dates isn't anyone's business but his own), and you also admitted to feeling a bit competitive.

After a potential for him to be with someone dies away, you feel better, like your place in his life is more secure, but when there's someone else who pops into his sphere and he's interested, you feel like just a number, depressed, and not important enough. It's the feeling of being threatened that I think needs a closer look - where does that come from? What is it that throws off your sense of security? Is it your relationship with Ginger, or your relationship with yourself?

I think you need to remember:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
. . . they both love me and lust for me, spend time with me, take care of me and our house, have fun with me. What they do when they aren't focused on me is really none of my business. It's not a threat, just a complication. I hope I can be more graceful if/when Ginger finds a new gf.
I also think you do need to discuss with him how unsure you feel about going to these events and activities that you've been attending with him, where you will possibly see these other women. It probably hasn't even occured to him that you would feel uncomfortable there. Maybe you can ask that he come over and have a date with you after the event ends. There is certainly no reason for you to step back and "dance alone" or sit in a corner. I think you should go there with your head held high, on his arm if you like! Be the fabulous and gracious woman you are, introduce yourself to his other interests, relax, and enjoy being with your rock star boyfriend.
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Last edited by nycindie; 04-27-2014 at 01:35 AM.
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  #24  
Old 04-27-2014, 01:43 AM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Well, for one thing, I am probably triggered back to the memory of when my ex h and I opened our marriage and he and our unicorn fell for each other....

I've had 33 years of mono life, preceded by mono programming from our culture, so needing/desiring 4 or 5 partners just seems excessive and greedy to me, I guess.

I only want 2 partners. 3 partners seems OK. I just can't relate to this need for more and more. I guess it's a hobby for him. I feel like he is stretched too thin with a 4th or 5th woman.

I guess when I first met him he got the idea I was like him, and would remain a power dater (tho he doesn't like that term). But I had had my fun from 2009-2012, sowed plenty of wild oats, and figured I could feel plenty of satisfaction in the poly, queer and kinky department with just him and miss p.

And I didn't expect this dating pattern! Before me he had one mono gf for a year. Before her, a couple women he saw on and off, kind of casually, for like 5 years.

Next thing is, I guess you could call him an alpha male, even though he is gender queer, mild mannered and kind of dorky sometimes. My ex h was low self esteem beta type. So, I was drawn to the opposite, which is more of a challenge, but something I was seeking. I just didn't expect it to be this hard. I didn't expect to be dating Hugh Hefner.

Mick Jagger's longtime gf L'Wren Scott killed herself recently.

miss p has only dated 4 men in the 5 years we've been together, including SubbyBoy, who is current but they mostly just IM, have only met twice, and her new Master, who she's known a couple months.

So, she's only dated 1/5 as often as he has in the past year.

Speaking of miss p, she finds this constant dating of Ginger's kind of exasperating too. I dunno, it almost makes him seem shallow, and almost a NRE junky. Though he claims to dislike NRE, he still seems to be in it a lot!
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Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37

Last edited by Magdlyn; 04-27-2014 at 01:46 AM.
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  #25  
Old 04-27-2014, 03:10 AM
willowstar willowstar is offline
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Hi Magdlyn

Sorry to hear you are going through this. I can relate, but for different reasons. My boyfriend and I have been having a challenging time as he is going through depression right now. He is not available to me, we barely chat or see each other, and he is really unable to participate in our relationship at all. I miss him terribly and am trying to learn how to cope while he seeks treatment. I am hoping he can get better soon.

We also have always shared everything with each other. Not having that is so hard, the thought that we may not be able to get that back hurts so much. He knows I am hurting but really can't even say that he loves me most days or even say he wants to be in relationship with me. He can only say he is sorry but it will not change until he gets back on his meds. Even then we don't know what it will look like.

So, what I am doing to cope is to work every day to accept that this is just where he is right now. I am trying hard to not take it as personal rejection, and to focus on my kids and my husband and my work. I send him texts that say I Love You with no expectation that I will get one in return. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't.

For me, it is an exercise in Unconditional Love... I am truly giving him my love with no expectation of getting anything in return. It is new and different, to say the least!!

I do agree with Nycindie that Ginger dating seems to bother you more then miss pixie. I wonder if this could be a carry over of the difference in how we think of women dating vs men dating? As a woman, you being newly single and exploring your sexuality must have felt very empowering (even if it was not your initial preference). Sexually active dating women being sexy and powerful vs sexually active dating men being selfish dogs? Perhaps exploring your feelings about men who "date around" would help you work through it? Just something that occurred to me, FWIW.

Wish you peace.

Willow
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  #26  
Old 04-27-2014, 03:34 AM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Speaking of miss p, she finds this constant dating of Ginger's kind of exasperating too.
"Constant dating?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Since last June, my bf Ginger has dated or attempted to date one man and four women. The guy and one woman-- those relationships didnt get off the ground. They IMed a lot, but he never ultimately dated the guy, and the other woman was unappealing in person. Shortly after that he took up with Mischa and then, with a slight overlap, with The Buddhist. He saw both of them 3 or 4 times, had some sexy time, much drama, emotions, HSV concerns, and then the relationships ended.

We had a 2 month break, and now he's taken up with one of the woman from his drum and dance community. It's been a week since she started IMing him and hitting on him and they've gone from being mere acquaintances to "romantic and affectionate," on FB chat. They met at an event since then, but were limited to burning gazes across a crowded room.
So, in the timespan of about ten months:
  • one relationship Ginger had hoped for never happened after IM'ing for a while.

  • one potential didn't go anywhere because he wasn't attracted to her when they met in person.

  • Ginger and Mischa communicated online for months before meeting for the first time, and then in your blog it sounded like it took almost two months just trying to schedule a second date with her because she was so busy (and that ended up being mostly cuddling and crying over her herpes diagnosis). Then it was a few more months before they got together again, wasn't it? So, they only got together about 3 times over several months and it eventually fizzled out.

  • He and The Buddhist (whom you called "greedy" and "promiscuous" for wanting to date Ginger and two other guys, hmmm - would you call me that if I wind up dating three men?) had four dates over the course of about a month and then she broke up with him.

  • A woman at his dance circle has recently expressed interest and they have had flirty chats and dancing, but have not been physical.

Mags, darlin', if someone new came here and complained about their partner's "constant dating" and the above is how they outlined their partner's dating life, would you actually agree with them? Do you honestly see that as "constant dating?"
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Last edited by nycindie; 04-27-2014 at 07:11 AM.
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  #27  
Old 04-27-2014, 03:41 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Quote:
Speaking of miss p, she finds this constant dating of Ginger's kind of exasperating too. I dunno, it almost makes him seem shallow, and almost a NRE junky. Though he claims to dislike NRE, he still seems to be in it a lot!
Could be an element of this also. NRE wears off in 6 mos -2 years. I see from your signature line that you guys have been together 2 years. You are moving into a new post-dating groove and if he's after the NRE hit... then yeah. More "power" dating for him.

That doesn't have to mean you are "less than" though -- you want X partners and he wants Y. This talk of you being one "pussy in the pussy parade" is he saying that? Or you?

If you, could not talk about yourself that way. This situation is hard and frustrating enough without that layer of extra ugh

If it is that you are poly and want X number of partners and he is poly and wants to experience Y number of partners -- you do have to determine if that's something you can become ok with or not.

But personal preferences like that isn't about your VALUE. You are a valuable person just as you are.

Hang in there!
Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 04-27-2014 at 05:52 AM.
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  #28  
Old 04-27-2014, 03:42 AM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
"Constant dating?"

Do you honestly see that as "constant dating?"
Yes. I was grateful for a 2 month break. Even though he didnt see those 2 women more than a handful of times, he was IMing, Skpying and all that, daily. Of course, I had the flu for 6 weeks, along with the flood and tiresome renovations, and put my back out from that, really bad. Meanwhile he's got the prostate issues and kidney pain from that... old people aches and pains, making us both grumpy.

Surely what someone else said upthread is true, in fact we've discussed it. He's not getting any younger so might as well be open to as many suitable women as possible while he can!

I just feel uncomfortable with this huge whoosh of his energy out to them, a new one every couple months, not to mention all the other okc profiles he scans and tells me about. I just have to get used to it somehow! I need coping skills. So I thought I'd come here to get some perspective.

FTR, I think Buddhist was juggling 5 men around the time she met Ginger... and she broke up with him because he was trying to get too serious, so I guess she was more polysexual than he is or I am. I dont think promiscuity is bad, per se.

I guess I am a big old hypocrite. He can date whoever he wants. I just didnt expect him to. It all changed over the past year. Takes some getting used to. He is sad I don't want all the details of the ins and outs of his relationships anymore. He likes having someone to retell the story of a date or flirty chat to, and I was that person, til now.
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me: Mags, 59, living with:
miss pixi, 37

Last edited by Magdlyn; 04-27-2014 at 03:53 AM.
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  #29  
Old 04-27-2014, 03:50 AM
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nycindie nycindie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magdlyn View Post
Yes. I was grateful for a 2 month break . . . I need coping skills. So I thought I'd come here to get some perspective.
Oh, I hope don't think I was criticizing you! I'm glad you wanted some perspective - that was what I was attempting to give you with one possible way to look at the situation. Others will have a different take on it. I have a feeling that, if you hadn't also had to deal with a bunch of illnesses, a flood, family stuff, and so on, you might not have seen Ginger's dating life as "constant," a series of dramas, and so exhausting for you.

Anyway, if we all keep offering what we see, hopefully someone's views might click with you and suddenly help shift your viewpoint, and thought processes as well. I really think there's a mindset we need to cultivate when things get tough!
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Last edited by nycindie; 04-27-2014 at 04:40 AM.
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  #30  
Old 04-27-2014, 05:26 AM
london london is offline
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Nycindie spoke a load of sense here.
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