Polyamory.com Forum  

Go Back   Polyamory.com Forum > Polyamory > Poly Relationships Corner

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 03-31-2014, 12:20 AM
Mahogany's Avatar
Mahogany Mahogany is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Atlantic, GA
Posts: 80
Default

LovingRadiance - Your elaboration on the word "cheat" sums it up. Based on the definition they both cheating, bottom line. They swindled, deceived, and all the above.

Again, if they simply communicated to me that they NEEDED the time, they could have arranged a date for later that night.

Marcus - I agree, thank you for the criticism (sincerely). This is why I posted this thread, I wanted honest outside opinions, including on my actions. I am at fault in not communicating clearly...I honestly didn't think that they would do that with the kids playing downstairs and me downstairs too.


I don't engage in sex with him when she is unaware (if she is with us) because I feel it is disrespectful to her feelings. Sneaking off to enjoy each other and leaving her out when she is around CAN be hurtful...I think away.

I dunno, life isn't black and white, there are other shades...I do need to work on not act so quickly on my emotions, to be sure to process things well and take a breather. Although my lashing wasn't disrespectful....I did call him names or do any thing like that...I simply said in a stern form "I am very upset, disappointed and hurt by you two!" I use "I-statements" not you-statements
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 03-31-2014, 12:50 AM
pulliman pulliman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Eastern US...
Posts: 182
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
I see no reason to label the husband as "dumb" or the gf as "disrespectful" when there is no evidence that this was the case.
Just a clarification - I didn't label the husband as dumb. I think it was a dumb choice, for reasons others have stated with far more clarity, but I'm certainly happy to think about other perspectives and attitudes around the events.
__________________
Willa: my wife
Amy: someone Willa and I have both been involved with
Ella: a many-years long-distance relationship of mine, that I don't blog about
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 03-31-2014, 12:55 AM
Marcus's Avatar
Marcus Marcus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Richardson, TX
Posts: 1,354
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahogany View Post
I don't engage in sex with him when she is unaware (if she is with us) because I feel it is disrespectful to her feelings. Sneaking off to enjoy each other and leaving her out when she is around CAN be hurtful...I think away.
It will be helpful for you to iron our exactly what your expectations are and then make sure that if you plan on holding people accountable for them... they are aware of the expectation and what is at stake. This is in all relationships, including business, friends/family, and romantic partners.

On expectations, it is also helpful to realize that because you would not take an action because you wouldn't want someone taking that action doesn't mean they feel the same. Personally I disagree with pretty much every poster in this thread because I don't find some villainy in sneaking off to the bathroom for a romp. Kids being in the house isn't a good enough reason for me to pass on a hook up with a lover when we are both all hot and bothered. Your hubby and his gf both also clearly don't share this taboo with you or any of the other posters on this thread. We are all quite different and finding fault with a behavior like this doesn't necessarily make it unhealthy or "bad".
__________________
Me: male, 40, straight, single
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 03-31-2014, 01:05 AM
pulliman pulliman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Eastern US...
Posts: 182
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
Personally I disagree with pretty much every poster in this thread because I don't find some villainy in sneaking off to the bathroom for a romp. Kids being in the house isn't a good enough reason for me to pass on a hook up with a lover when we are both all hot and bothered. Your hubby and his gf both also clearly don't share this taboo with you or any of the other posters on this thread. We are all quite different and finding fault with a behavior like this doesn't necessarily make it unhealthy or "bad".
Marcus, it's not about a taboo and it's not villainy (who said it was?). It's about shared responsibility. It's about the management of (presumably small) kids, a many-hands-on-deck perspective during a time of lots of activities. Birthday parties are typically pretty tightly scheduled affairs with lots of moving parts (lots of egos to deal with, kids that can melt down suddenly, etc), and I can assume that's what this was. Mostly, kids can take care of themselves. But parents are typically present and working together on this. As a parent, you're not really expected to sneak off and play. That's not a taboo, that's not even being nice. It's doing your part in an event you're supposed to be doing your part in.

Would it be different if there were just kids in the house? For me, yes. But at a birthday party? I can see why someone would be hurt to shoulder all that space alone, even if only for such a short time. To me, it would the decision that mattered, the surprise of being left alone, not the act itself.
__________________
Willa: my wife
Amy: someone Willa and I have both been involved with
Ella: a many-years long-distance relationship of mine, that I don't blog about
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 03-31-2014, 01:10 AM
Marcus's Avatar
Marcus Marcus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Richardson, TX
Posts: 1,354
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pulliman View Post
I think it was a dumb choice
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus
I see no reason to label the husbands actions as "dumb" or the gfs actions as "disrespectful" when there is no evidence that this was the case.
It doesn't change the thrust of the discussion. The OP was upset for something the hubby, gf, and I find to be perfectly harmless fun. For these actions to be dumb or disrespectful there would need to be a common understanding that what they were doing is somehow inherently dangerous or harmful, which would classify their ignorance of the widely accepted social tradition as such (dumb and disrespectful).

Children aren't made of porcelain. I'm sure that they will survive the dangerous trauma of NOT knowing that a couple of consenting adults quietly had a quicky in the bathroom somewhere in the same house. In my opinion the "children" argument is just obfuscating the reality of this very minor disagreement and need for adult communication.
__________________
Me: male, 40, straight, single
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 03-31-2014, 02:04 AM
nycindie's Avatar
nycindie nycindie is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Apple
Posts: 9,031
Default

First of all, please know that everything I am about to say below is meant to be helpful and is offered in the spirit of "tough love" and tell-it-like-it-is good will...

Personally, I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill. Are they adults? In a relationship in which sex happens? Is it so wrong that an opportunity to have a little sexy fun presented itself and they took it? I am sure they locked the door so no kids would walk in and find them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahogany View Post
. . . I realized that I was upset because (1) he had asked me to sneak off with him and have some adult fun more than once during the party (and although I really wanted to, I said no) I didn't feel comfortable do it upstairs when our kids and others were alert downstairs. So I put my responsibilities first (making an adult decision to wait) but he decided to go ask her and SHE said yes and even him continuing to pursue it, even after I explained why it was not a good idea.
So, you didn't think it was a good idea - but she did. Why does that irk you so much? Is she supposed to be in total agreement with you about everything? Or is it that you are in charge of his sex life and what you say goes? And obviously he thought it was a good idea. Again, what is the harm? Are they in an adult relationship or not? Are each of them in full charge of their bodies and sexuality, or do they need to run it by you every time they feel amorous? It sounds like you require them to seek your permission before they can fool around, and that smacks of a need to be in control of others (but keep in mind, that can only backfire because feeling in control of what other people do is only an illusion - you simply can't control other people, no matter how many rules you pile on top of them).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahogany View Post
In the past I was fully aware of what was going the happen, so I had been able to mentally prepare (if you will)....this was a complete surprise to me. Communication is very important to me, and they failed to do that. If they needed a date, they should have said that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahogany View Post
. . . if they simply communicated to me that they NEEDED the time, they could have arranged a date for later that night.
I am curious why you need to mentally prepare yourself for when your husband has sex with his gf. Are you his keeper, his warden? You are aware he has another relationship and that they are grown-ups who have sex. Why must they give you time to prepare? This seems like a very passive-aggressive way to try and put the brakes on their romantic/sexual relationship, because they can never be spontaneous in expressing their desire for each other for fear of upsetting you. You want it cleared in advance and scheduled to your liking, so you can adjust mentally, emotionally, for some reason. Well, if I were either one of them, that would be a total buzzkill. Are you sure you have actually come to terms with what polyamory is, means to you and your partners, and how it translates in terms of real-world actions and choices?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahogany View Post
There is JUST a time and place for everything. If they would have took some time to talk and connect, I would have been ok with that....sex when kids are alert in the house is weird to me and makes me feel uncomfortable. But I don't know if I am being too uptight about it
I think your perspective is quite uptight - but it's probably something you inherited. If you read your words: "There is a time and place for everything..." that sounds like my grandmother talking. I'm picturing you wagging your finger at them while saying that. "Now, hubby, there is a time and place for everything, you bad boy!" I'm not saying that to be critical or mean, but to suggest that you take a look at your conditioning and how you let it totally throw you into a tailspin, and are using it now to justify being upset.

I am sure there are plenty of parents across the globe who have snuck away for a quickie while the kids were playing. And the world kept spinning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahogany View Post
I am at fault in not communicating clearly...I honestly didn't think that they would do that with the kids playing downstairs and me downstairs too.

I don't engage in sex with him when she is unaware (if she is with us) because I feel it is disrespectful to her feelings.
How is having sex with your partner even remotely disrespectful to his other partner? If it is, then, is it really disrespectful of you if he has sex with her when you're available too? Really? What is the logic behind that? I would think that she knows you two are adults who have sex, and it wouldn't hurt her to know you are doing it. Again, I think you are applying some sort of conditioned reasoning here which has nothing to do with the reality of the situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahogany View Post
Sneaking off to enjoy each other and leaving her out when she is around CAN be hurtful.
Why would it be hurtful? Can you see how you are using the situation to hurt yourself? In actuality, they didn't hurt you, but you are choosing to see it as a hurtful act.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mahogany View Post
. . . morally I feel that it was wrong because of when and how they went about it. Don't you think that it was the wrong time? We had 5 children downstairs with me. What if I wanted to enjoy the acts they were experiencing too, but I couldn't because I was downstairs taking care of the kids. Why do they get to go upstairs and enjoy each other? Why not me? . . . To be honest, hubby had asked me to sneak off and do something with him earlier during the party, but I told him know...maybe later after everyone went to sleep. SO I guess he tried with her and hit the jackpot.
IT COULD HAVE BEEN YOU, BUT YOU REFUSED THE OFFER! You can't cry about not getting any after you turned him down! You want it both ways.

The above sentences I quoted really seem to speak to the crux of the matter, as I see it. You said no, and thought he should be satisfied with that. She said yes, and he got what he wanted from someone other than you. Honey, you are wrapped up in feeling jealous, possessive, competitive, and envious. You probably wish you'd said yes, but you didn't. So now you're telling yourself and the two of them that it's all about "time and place" and protecting the children, and being responsible - I call bullshit! You are kidding yourself because you don't want to look at what's really underneath it. You want to be his first choice, you want to be enough for him, and you only want him to want her when you approve of the circumstances.

Believe me, I know it sucks to admit to feelings we don't want to have, but it's much more freeing and satisfying to be authentic than it is to hide behind some old life-limiting belief system.
__________________
The world opens up... when you do.

"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
"Love and the self are one . . ." ~Leo Buscaglia "

Click here for a Solo Poly view on hierarchical relationships
Click here to find out why the Polyamorous Misanthrope is feeling disgusted.

Last edited by nycindie; 03-31-2014 at 02:15 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 03-31-2014, 02:05 AM
bookbug bookbug is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 757
Default

While I highly doubt hubby and gf meant to upset Mahogany, I, too, would have an issue with being left with the responsibility alone. Since the kids seem to be an emotional issue for everyone, take the kids out of it. Suppose the three adults had were doing chores around the house, and two of them decide on a quickie leaving one working. Use any combo you want - hubby and gf; hubby and wife; wife and gf. The one left working is unlikely to be pleased about it.

Now, it appears that the OP assumed that the other adults were sharing the responsibility with her. However, they obviously didn't see the party as their responsibility. The question is why. Maybe the OP had done all the organizing and preparing and so they saw her as "in charge," which might make them think it was acceptable to leave for a moment. Perhaps responsibilities weren't made clear.

In any case, I applaud the OP for bringing this up for discussion, given that she herself wants to understand the issue in order to be a better communicator.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 03-31-2014, 02:21 AM
nycindie's Avatar
nycindie nycindie is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Big Apple
Posts: 9,031
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pulliman View Post
As a parent, you're not really expected to sneak off and play. That's not a taboo, that's not even being nice. It's doing your part in an event you're supposed to be doing your part in.
The OP already stated that the party was over and all the guests had left when they went upstairs to go have some fun. The OP was occupied with the kids. I don't get why everyone is assuming that the OP's husband and his gf would not have rejoined the group and resumed their responsibilities with clean-up, etc. In situations like this, the aftermath of a party, you see people go out for a smoke or run to the store, and no one says boo. They come back and the people left behind say, "Oh back already? Great, here's the trash, take it out," or "You wash, I'll dry," and so on. But since it was a blow-job, it's insulting, not nice, and cause for alarm?
__________________
The world opens up... when you do.

"Oh, oh, can't you see? Love is the drug for me." ~Bryan Ferry
"Love and the self are one . . ." ~Leo Buscaglia "

Click here for a Solo Poly view on hierarchical relationships
Click here to find out why the Polyamorous Misanthrope is feeling disgusted.

Last edited by nycindie; 03-31-2014 at 02:27 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 03-31-2014, 02:25 AM
vanquish vanquish is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Montgomery, AL
Posts: 294
Default

Marcus reminded me above that it happened after the guests were gone and the party over. With that said, I don't see the big deal.

Furthermore, as Marcus illuminated, there was no standing rule. So LR there was no cheating, even despite the Funk and Wagnall's definition. Colloquially cheating invokves sex, not what happened here. I'm a lawyer who drafts lawsuits based on fraud all the time so I'm aware of thr range of definitions.

NYC and Marcus both said it very well so I won't recap the rest.
__________________
Me - male, 42, poly, straight, in a serious relationship with Audrey, also casually dating.

Audrey - female, 20, poly, pansexual, also casually dating.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 03-31-2014, 02:54 AM
BrigidsDaughter's Avatar
BrigidsDaughter BrigidsDaughter is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 822
Default

I don't know. I still think it was wrong of her hubby to do that when she says she expressed to him why she felt it was inappropriate for her and him to sneak in a quickie when he asked her. I'm sure that she meant for him to realize that it was inappropriate for him to be having sexy times when it was family/ kid time. It's their twins' birthday, not time for him to get a blow job from his girlfriend because his wife said not now. She even told him later that night would be appropriate.

It sounds to me like he wanted to fulfill his fantasy and didn't see the harm. It also sounds like if she noticed they were missing after the party when the guests had left, they likely did go off for said quickie during the party, not after.

I am not someone who cares if my son is home when I'm having sex, but he does have to be in his room with the door closed and some type of media playing so he can't hear me. (He's 12.) My boyfriend and his wife won't allow any type of sexy time when their 17 year old son is in the house. His wife won't have sex with him when their son is home, and hasn't since his birth, so I don't get to either.

Part of being a parent means being available for your children. It means anticipating their needs and twins after a birthday party are going to be wound up and will most likely need both their parents.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:59 PM.