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  #21  
Old 03-27-2014, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by LoveBunny View Post
Over a year and a half ago I joined this forum in a very similar situation. I, too, was told "leave your husband and be polyamorous or stay and be monogamous." This all-or-nothing approach felt lose-lose to me. I wanted to bring more love into my life, not lose the great love I already had. So I ignored it, and I'm so glad I did.
If someone told you that you needed to divorce your husband and move on with your poly fantasy then that was short sighted advice. Better advice would be much closer to what most of these posters are recommending, "Decide for yourself if you desire poly or mono relationship style and then proceed accordingly". At that point hubby and bf can decide how they want to proceed.

What happens to the relationship should be of lower priority than living a genuine life. With any luck one can live true to their values AND keep their relationships but one without the other is tragic.

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Originally Posted by friskyone4u View Post
Whether it is right or wrong, a very SMALL percentage of men will ever accept a relationship where their partner goes out and has sex with other men. So before you make this choice I would be sure that is what you want and that this is just still not a NRE fog that you are in.
This is true in the US because there is heavy handed social pressure to be monogamous. In a society which polyandry is the social norm you could probably make a similar statement about the very SMALL percentage of men who will be interested in a monogamous relationship.

Dating/romance worldviews on the fringe of current social norms are going to have a smaller dating pool... true enough. If having a lot of dishes to choose from is a high priority for you then you should heed this advice. If instead living a genuine life is important to you then maybe don't give this high priority.

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Originally Posted by friskyone4u View Post
But just remember if you decide you are poly, that means when your husband leaves you and finds someone else, which will probably happen, the next time you meet a man you should tell him you are poly and have no intentions of maintaining an exclusive relationship with him. That will be fine until you find someone who wants to marry you or enter into a real committed relationship. Then you will see how many will stick around.
This is also very true. If you want to be a part of a real committed relationship it needs to be a sexually exclusive marriage because... wait... what?

What about a poly relationship is not "real" or "committed"? Did you really mean it that way?
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  #22  
Old 03-27-2014, 08:04 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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I am glad it helped you some.

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One question: what is DADT?
It means "don't ask, don't tell."

In your situation you are going to feel a whole bunch of things -- its a process. I don't think it is unreasonable in this process to have feelings of "sad" or "guilt." Don't fight it -- just try to be ok feeling whatever it is. At the same time, don't crank yourself up MORE just because you happen to be enduring internal emotional weather right now. Storms eventually pass. Let it blow on through. Wait.

Focus instead on the behavior you need to do/not do that you, husband, and counselor lay out. Weather it's stormy skies or sunny days on the inside -- behavior done is behavior done and behavior not done is behavior not done. YKWIM?

I hope tomorrow's appointment is productive.

GL!
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Last edited by GalaGirl; 03-27-2014 at 08:12 PM.
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  #23  
Old 03-28-2014, 04:45 PM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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And I'm sorry, but there are plenty of ways to get companionship outside marriage without hurting her husband. She can have a hundred platonic friends. She can have emotional support from other women. This is not a choice between (have sex with another man) or (have no social connection or companionship whatsoever apart from husband.)
Just because you are able to satisfy your own need for companionship with platonic friends doesn't mean other people are. How do you know she hasn't tried that, and it hasn't worked? Obviously if her needs were being met that way, she wouldn't be out there with some other guy. People don't do things just for kicks, they do them to satisfy a need. Every time.

Some people need sex. I personally don't. But that would make it completely ridiculous for me to tell other people "You don't need sex, just be happy with platonic friends" just because I myself don't need sex.

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See, with a true NEED, we die without it.
Surviving is not thriving. The needs without which we die are referred to as "physical needs." But stick someone alone in a dark room with ample food, water, and shelter, and tell me how well they do, emotionally and mentally. Obviously humans have "needs" beyond basic survival. Here's an example list: Needs Inventory

She has a need for self-expression and autonomy. Meanwhile, her husband has a need for consideration and respect. She has a desire to sleep with other guys. Being told she's not allowed to do that prevents her need for autonomy from being met. Conversely, doing it means her husband's need for consideration is not being met. Incompatible needs.

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But as has been pointed out here, by me and others, making a decision to continue in behavior that is clearly hurting him is going to damage or end the marriage.
I don't disagree that fulfilling her needs (autonomy, self-expression) is incompatible with fulfilling her husband's needs (consideration, respect). However, I don't like the way you blame her for that, as though it's all her fault she has these feelings, and she's destroying her marriage by having them.

As people grow as individuals, it's not uncommon that they grow in different directions. That's no one's fault and it doesn't mean one of them has destroyed the marriage. It just means that people change, and relationships sometimes end. This is especially true if one person in a relationship wants to limit the ways the other person can grow.
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Last edited by SchrodingersCat; 03-28-2014 at 05:06 PM.
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  #24  
Old 03-28-2014, 05:35 PM
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Dagferi Dagferi is offline
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Originally Posted by friskyone4u View Post
Hoyam,

Some of the others have told you to choose the lifestyle, poly or mono, not the boyfriend or husband. Probably a good idea. But just remember if you decide you are poly, that means when your husband leaves you and finds someone else, which will probably happen, the next time you meet a man you should tell him you are poly and have no intentions of maintaining an exclusive relationship with him. That will be fine until you find someone who wants to marry you or enter into a real committed relationship. Then you will see how many will stick around..
I find this statement extremely offensive.

I am very much in REAL COMMITTED relationships with BOTH my husbands. I share the expenses at both homes. Make huge life decisions with both men. I am saving towards retirement with both.

I am polyfidelous I do not go about looking for other partners. Heck I wasn't even looking for Murf. He found me. And he is MONOGAMOUS and perfectly happy in our relationship and marriage. Butch is perfectly happy too.

Why are you even on this site? You apparently are antipolyamory.
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Last edited by Dagferi; 03-28-2014 at 05:45 PM.
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  #25  
Old 03-28-2014, 06:32 PM
KerryRen KerryRen is offline
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Originally Posted by friskyone4u View Post
Hoyam,

Whether it is right or wrong, a very SMALL percentage of men will ever accept a relationship where their partner goes out and has sex with other men. So before you make this choice I would be sure that is what you want and that this is just still not a NRE fog that you are in.

Again, no one here is telling you anything other than to slow up and continue therapy. How well you listen to that will have a large part in determining the outcome.
Must respectfully disagree. I have encountered what I would call a significant chunk of men who are perfectly happy to have their partner go out and have sex with someone else. Frequently these are straight mono men. They have threesome fantasies; they prefer their partner find another woman. If they aren't allowed to watch or participate, they are willing to be content with material to feed the fantasy.

What they can't deal with is the emotional needs of their partner being met by someone else, or the idea that their partner's partner also has emotional needs that need to be met. Much easier to bounce on the bed with sextoys, not people.

Then there's the swinging community, which can, at its best, divorce the sex from the emotion and yet somehow leave everyone involved content.

Then there's the phenomenon where I've seen people essentially "loan" their spouses to their friends, to satisfy unmet physical needs without jeopardizing friendships or marriages, with everyone's agreement.

Come to think of it, I've seen a lot of non-monogamous behavior promoted by the ostensible straight mono male involved in a committed relationship. Makes me suspect this is yet another case of how society screws men up by demanding they play certain roles.
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  #26  
Old 03-28-2014, 07:04 PM
KerryRen KerryRen is offline
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Originally Posted by friskyone4u View Post
Hoyam,

But just remember if you decide you are poly, that means when your husband leaves you and finds someone else, which will probably happen, the next time you meet a man you should tell him you are poly and have no intentions of maintaining an exclusive relationship with him. That will be fine until you find someone who wants to marry you or enter into a real committed relationship. Then you will see how many will stick around.
A real committed relationship? Oh, define that one for the masses, wise one. And be specific.

I don't call someone a friend until they've stayed in my life for one year. It is an arbitrary time period, yes, but I chose it for valid reasons.

I have found most people can't maintain the demands of a friendship that long, or they exhibit behaviors -- lying, for example -- that eliminates them from the people I want to be friends with.

Once you are my friend, however, I'm there for the long haul. Time and distance may separate us, but I will always be there for those I call friend.

This occasionally blinds me to their faults, and can take the equivalent of setting my house on fire to end the friendship when needed. Fortunately, this is a rare occurrence.

I have seen a lot of marriages that do not maintain the levels of trust, loyalty, and commitment I have in my friendships. To be sure, some of these marriages have lasted a couple of decades or more, but you can see and feel how brittle they are. Others don't survive their own first year.

Certainly I tend to choose romantic partners from my friends, and that seems natural to me -- if I do not first trust someone, why would I let them further into my heart or share my body with them? It's also enabled the friendship to last when the love affair ends. Not always, of course, but often.

A ring and a contract don't make a marriage, or a "real committed relationship", unless everyone agrees on terms and holds to them. Most people in this hetero-mono-centric society assume terms, never discuss them, and then fail to follow what they've nominally agreed to -- hence, infidelity. It's like failing to read the Terms of Service, or your credit card agreement; everyone assumes and no one really knows what they've agreed to until they mess up and get hit with the legal actions.

The terms of _my_ marriage required that it be open; I saw no signs that my would-be husband was naturally monogamous, and I surely wasn't (though unless you knew my early history, most would never guess). The one relationship I've objected to was not because he slept with someone, or even because he developed emotional connections with someone else; I'm good with those. What I objected to was she was _using_ him, was all take and no give, in any meaningful sense, and therefore abusing the friendship, and our family suffered by extension.
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  #27  
Old 03-28-2014, 07:21 PM
london london is offline
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I agree with Frisky to an extent. I've come across many "poly" men who have no intention of having a life long polyamorous relationship. Ie. when they start to share practical entanglements and/or plan a future with their partner, the expectation is that it will be a monogamous relationship. Or monogamish at least.
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  #28  
Old 03-29-2014, 12:47 AM
friskyone4u friskyone4u is offline
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Default How To Deal With mono Partner

As usual here, the thread has gone from people trying to give Hoyam advice that is best for HER (Gala Girl, London, Bookbug,Dagferi,Schrodingers Cat, What Happened) to the expected group that is most interested in informing everyone of how perfect their situation is and what their spouse or partner thinks, and going on the attack towards anyone who they disagree with. Gala Girl is probably the most eloquent poster here and whether you agree or disagree with her she is respectful, does not take others posts sentence by sentence and be rude to them, no matter whether she agrees or disagrees. It is interesting that the experts on everything here always use the term “I, ME’ MY”, and the first group address Hoyam as you and your husband and do not tell her this is what I did. Who gives a shit what you did. She is not sitting across the table from you. It is her husband across the table from her.
Kerry Ryan, I will address you. You called me all knowing. If you bother to talk to anyone other than your select group of contacts (of course your world is all that matters), you will find more research published that estimates that no more than 4-6% of the US population practices ongoing forms of non-monogamy, and if you count the number of swingers clubs going up all over the place you would have to conclude that the overwhelming percentage of the 4-6% are not practicing what you want to call poly since this board is full of people looking for anywhere to meet poly people. So accept the fact that your opinion is not in the majority. Does not mean you are not entitled to it but when you state that you know most men are fine with this is ludicrous. And who cares. Tell me how that helps Hoyam..
Hoyam is now in therapy, just started, and she is in this therapy because she has some interest in trying to salvage her relationship with her husband. I always thought that therapy was supposed to be where two people express their deepest beliefs and try to resolve a problem, and it would be interesting to see what her therapist would say if she knows that after each therapy session Hoyam is going to first come up here to get some cheerleading, and then to go home and get on Skype to share her husbands positions with her boyfriend. Maybe some of you think it would also be helpful for her to invite him over for a few nights of passion in between therapy sessions. I’d love to hear the explanation as to how that is going to help her husband who is totally against poly to not feel more betrayed.
I took an interest in this because my youngest daughter is in the same situation but reversed. Her husband has basically done the same thing Hoyam did to her husband. I took her to three therapists, one who has practiced non-monogamy and has helped my wife and I thru some difficult times, and two others that were very expensive and with extraordinary credentials.. All three told my daughter and her husband that while they were in therapy and until they made a decision that all contact between him and the other women had to cease or they were wasting their money.
There is an old saying “would you rather be right or be married” or “would you rather do anything you want” or be married. Whatever you decided is fine for YOU. That does not make it right for her and her husband.
So in conclusion, those of you that want to dissect what I say to take shots at me fine. Make yourself feel good. I could care less. I can assure you I am as educated as you, have had a 30 year marriage much of which was non monogamous without divorce, make an income that puts me in top 1% of US earners, and live in a multi-millon dollar home. None of that matter to Hoyam so you little cyber bullies out there have a party now attacking me.
Maybe you should name you board Polyamory If You Agr
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  #29  
Old 03-29-2014, 01:38 AM
KerryRen KerryRen is offline
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Originally Posted by friskyone4u View Post
Kerry Ryan, I will address you. You called me all knowing.
It's Ren, not Ryan. And I call you wise one, not all knowing. You indicate you react, not read.

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Originally Posted by friskyone4u View Post
So accept the fact that your opinion is not in the majority. Does not mean you are not entitled to it but when you state that you know most men are fine with this is ludicrous.
Again, I was quite specific that my statements came from my observations and experiences. Like any human being, I can and will generalize from them -- as do you.

I am well aware I am not in the majority. I have never in my life been in the majority, and I expect to die in the far fringes of multiple minorities. So what? That does not render my observations false; I swim in the mainstream, even if I do not live in it.

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Originally Posted by friskyone4u View Post
Maybe some of you think it would also be helpful for her to invite him over for a few nights of passion in between therapy sessions. I’d love to hear the explanation as to how that is going to help her husband who is totally against poly to not feel more betrayed.
You seem to be the only one making that suggestion, and I find it fascinating how you claim to read her husband's mind.

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Originally Posted by friskyone4u View Post
There is an old saying “would you rather be right or be married” or “would you rather do anything you want” or be married. Whatever you decided is fine for YOU. That does not make it right for her and her husband.
I'm seeing a fair variety of suggestions here, but you seem to be advocating the One True Way. That does get people's hackles up, whether talking religion, politics, sex or relationships.

Quote:
Originally Posted by friskyone4u View Post
So in conclusion, those of you that want to dissect what I say to take shots at me fine. Make yourself feel good. I could care less. I can assure you I am as educated as you, have had a 30 year marriage much of which was non monogamous without divorce, make an income that puts me in top 1% of US earners, and live in a multi-millon dollar home. None of that matter to Hoyam so you little cyber bullies out there have a party now attacking me.
Maybe you should name you board Polyamory If You Agr
None of that matters to anyone, I suspect, so why bring it up at all?
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  #30  
Old 03-29-2014, 02:29 AM
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Marcus Marcus is offline
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Originally Posted by friskyone4u View Post
I can assure you I am as educated as you, have had a 30 year marriage much of which was non monogamous without divorce, make an income that puts me in top 1% of US earners, and live in a multi-millon dollar home.
Got us a real live table flipping pout-rage up in here!!

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Originally Posted by Hoyam View Post
What i find diffecult is the fact that i feel here and from my husband that i am selfish to want this.
So are you insisting that your husband be polyamorous, and offer up his love and romance to everyone he meets? Or are you telling him that YOU are polyamorous and that YOU want to retain control over YOUR emotions and body? If you were telling him he needed to go out and date or you're leaving him that would be one thing... you'd be trying to get him to change who he is to suit your personal preference. As it is you are fine with his being monogamous if that's what he wants to do but you want him to accept that you are not monogamous.

Does that sound selfish? Asking a loved one to accept you how you are and telling them that you can handle your own body and emotions?

What about his insisting that you live a monogamous life and that your dreams of polyamory are unacceptable? What about his telling you that you need to change to suit his personal preference? Is that selfish? Maybe, not that it really matters. If he's monogamous and that is not negotiable then he is right to make this clear - If you are polyamorous and that is not negotiable then you need to make that clear...

There's no need for a bad guy, it just may be time to redefine the nature of your association. As difficult and painful as that might be in the short run, in the long run I believe living a genuine life is better than living in service to each others fear of change.

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Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post
I always recommend fixing one relationship before adding others to your life. If your relationship with the other guy has any substance, it will still be there if you take a few months off to really deal with your marriage. If your commitment to your marriage is sincere, you can sacrifice a few months without the other guy while you really repair the cracks.
What makes the relationship with boyfriend less valid than the one with hubby? Treating a relationship as if it is secondary is cruel in my opinion and I hope that people move away from this as the standard response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoyam View Post
Tomorrow therapy. I will deffinately take this all with me.
How did it go? I'm actually quite curious to know how the counselor plans on addressing this situation (though I expect "ditch the boyfriend, be monogamous, everything else is a selfish sin" will be about the extent of it)
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