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  #11  
Old 03-24-2014, 03:04 AM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Pulliman, it sounds like you misunderstood the point. Nyc obviously wasn't saying that ff relationships aren't real or threatening. She said that opp men might see them that way, despite evidence to the contrary. Just like racists still see blacks as less than human, despite the obvious fallacy of that belief. Insecurities rarely agree with reality.
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  #12  
Old 03-24-2014, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pulliman View Post
Can I object to the pop psychology in this description?
There was no "pop psychology" in my post. It was a criticism based on my observations.

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I know of at least one situation in my family where the woman fell in love with and ran off with the other woman.
Yes, so? That was my point. It's a completely unrealistic and sexist assumption that only another man can be a threat. A woman can fall in love and leave an established relationship for another woman just as much as she can with a man, so a OPP won't be any insurance against that and doesn't protect the relationship at all. All it does is give the male a false sense of security and control over their female partner. OPPs are offensive and degrading to women.
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  #13  
Old 03-24-2014, 09:15 AM
graviton graviton is offline
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Being a male last time I checked I can tell you some of the reasons for the OPP that have nothing to do with the fear of her running away with another man.
1. Men are fiercely territorial and consider their women part of the property.
2. It is gross and highly disturbing to think of another man's penis or semen touching his woman. If there is a chance that during lovemaking with that woman I may encounter some leftover semen from the other man and accidentally taste it or touch it then that is incredibly disgusting and might even be gay. You should also consider this reason to be the equivalent of schoolyard cooties.
3. It is less than masculine to allow another man access to your woman and you are a pussy or a cuckold if you allow it to happen. It simply means you didn't beat your chest hard enough or make loud enough noises to scare the other male away.
4. No man wants to be in competition with another man when it comes to penis length or sexual prowess. Regardless of the other woman being better than us in bed that is less scary than another man being better than us.

I'm not saying that any of these reasons are remotely valid or logical but they are what exist in the majority of men. Ultimately they all boil down to pride and have a lot to do with how men are socialized in our society from childhood. Not to mention some of that is just basic animal instinct. Logically I know the one penis policy is not fair but we are trying to fight millions of years of evolution that have made the male of every mammalian species territorial of their women. I can tell you that when I had my one penis policy the fear of her running away with the other guy wasn't even a remote fear for me. It was these other four reasons that held the policy in place.
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  #14  
Old 03-24-2014, 11:00 AM
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I think a lot of your examples corroborate mine and are indicative of the same mindset I was writing about.

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1. Men are fiercely territorial and consider their women part of the property.
Yep, and society has taught us that. Not only do men think women are their property, but women think they own men, too. Ownership is part of monogamous conditioning. My wife, My husband, don't touch.
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3. It is less than masculine to allow another man access to your woman and you are a pussy or a cuckold if you allow it to happen. It simply means you didn't beat your chest hard enough or make loud enough noises to scare the other male away.
This is another aspect of what I was saying. Gosh, people are only focusing on one point I made instead of looking at the gestalt of my post. I was talking about another man being threatening while another woman is not, simply because she is a woman (sexist thinking!). I only wrote about "running off" with them as just one example of why it's threatening. It's all about a woman being seen as less valuable and less powerful than a man, including the man's partner, not just any other women she might want to be involved with.

So, yes, if a guy's woman (note ownership) cannot be controlled and another guy gains access to what believes is rightfully his property, he is weak, a cuckold, not the master of his domain, etc. But if his woman wants to get it on with another woman, that's hot - especially if he gets to watch! If you drill down even further, there is an underlying belief that women are just meant to serve men anyway. Ugh.

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Originally Posted by graviton View Post
4. No man wants to be in competition with another man when it comes to penis length or sexual prowess. Regardless of the other woman being better than us in bed that is less scary than another man being better than us.
Right. Less scary because even if a man's wife or partner is having the most awesome mind-blowing sex with another woman, better sex than she has with him, it isn't as much of a threat because it's "just" a woman and no competition at all. Nothing to worry about, unless it's a man, because a man, oh wow, that makes it real.

Ultimately, One Penis Policies are used to "protect" the existing relationship because a woman is less threatening than another man is, and that thinking negates a woman's value. If a man's female partner is involved with another woman, that is considered less important, less real, less meaningful, less of a threat, and less of a relationship than what she has with him.
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Last edited by nycindie; 03-24-2014 at 11:08 AM.
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  #15  
Old 03-24-2014, 11:40 AM
graviton graviton is offline
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Originally Posted by nycindie View Post
Ultimately, One Penis Policies are used to "protect" the existing relationship because a woman is less threatening than another man is, and that thinking negates a woman's value. If a man's female partner is involved with another woman, that is considered less important, less real, less meaningful, less of a threat, and less of a relationship than what she has with him.
I'm not sure I totally agree with that. Maybe some men feel that way. I can speak for myself and my own feelings when my wife had a girlfriend. I agree it felt less threatening but I don't agree that it felt less real less important less meaningful or less of a relationship. Mostly it's less yucky and more sexy and less cooties. I know that sounds immature, and it is, but its how I felt and I'm sure it's how the majority of men feel . I also didn't feel threatened because I was the only breadwinner for our household we have been married for 17 years and we have two children together so I had some security in the relationship due to that. She had more invested in our relationship so I had a lot of security due to that.
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  #16  
Old 03-24-2014, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by graviton View Post
Mostly it's less yucky and more sexy and less cooties. I know that sounds immature, and it is, but its how I felt and I'm sure it's how the majority of men feel
No doubt that's how some men rationalize a one penis policy when they are reluctant to recognize what their motivations are. It's pretty natural for people to want to distance themselves from the unwashed emotional masses and to be able to state that they are above the petty motivations that nycindie described.
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  #17  
Old 03-24-2014, 02:01 PM
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I'm sure I misunderstood part of what nycindie wrote, and I am more sure that I wrote the rest of my post inartfully. I meant to be making a case for hearing the humanity behind the OPP, and advocating for listening to whatever may be behind it (if it's even really there). I'm smiling at what graviton wrote - cooties and all. I'm sure that there might be other reasons for it, for other people. Sorry for not writing well, earlier.
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  #18  
Old 03-24-2014, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graviton View Post
Ultimately they all boil down to pride and have a lot to do with how men are socialized in our society from childhood. Not to mention some of that is just basic animal instinct. Logically I know the one penis policy is not fair but we are trying to fight millions of years of evolution that have made the male of every mammalian species territorial of their women.
Socialized, yes. Animal instinct, no.

Sorry, but the evidence just doesn't support the Standard Model of human sexual evolution. Our closest relatives, chimps and bonobos, are both extremely non-territorial about sex. "Come one, come all." That whole "men own women" thing was invented alongside agriculture and property ownership only in the last few thousand years. All over the world, in the last century, immediate return foraging societies have completely debunked the Standard Model. Across the board, they share sex like they share food and shelter, which is freely.

Loud female vocalization during sex, multiple female orgasms, quick male orgasms, the size of male testicles, the shape of the male penis, the huge number of sperm produced, getting turned on by watching other couples fuck... these all speak to an evolutionary model in which multiple male partners is the norm.

If you'd spent the last several million years owning your women, your balls would be the size of a peanut. You'd only produce a few hundred sperm at a time because they wouldn't expect any competition. Your penis wouldn't have a head that creates suction when you thrust, pulling out the sperm of previous men. I wouldn't scream and moan to notify other men nearby that I'm feeling frisky. You would live in social groups containing one alpha male and a harem of females, or you'd live in a tree with just your wife and kids, 40km from the nearest family.
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Gralson: my husband (works out of town).
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Last edited by SchrodingersCat; 03-24-2014 at 04:23 PM.
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  #19  
Old 03-26-2014, 07:48 PM
SkeertAquarian SkeertAquarian is offline
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Default Whoa!

I didn't expect to spark a philosophical debate on the fairness of an OPP! lol. Still, quite interesting the different takes.

Thank you all for responding. I really appreciate it. I just thought I'd clear a few things up. I think several of you had the wrong idea about the rules my husband and I have:

nycindie:
"Your husband obviously has some of these insecurities, and it seems pretty deep ones, too because he does require that he be present whenever you are with someone else. That is so sex-focused, as well as dictator-ish, and speaks of very deep fears and a need to control."

SchrodingersCat:
"You can point to the fact that he already is able to go off with other girls, without you, and because you've realised that this is neither fair not consistent with your desires, you're planning to give yourself the same freedom."

Just real quick: He does not currently have the freedom to go off with other girls without me. I would certainly be willing to let him have that freedom if I were granted the same thing, but under current rules it's a "both or nothing". The exception would be a woman we already had established a relationship with, in which case we would both be free to "go off with" her without the other as long as all parties were aware.

Another thing I wanted to mention was in response to this:
graviton:
"Another possible issue is that you already have someone lined up and waiting in the wings. That seems to cause a lot more stress and anxiety in these situations."

If I did decide to approach the subject with my husband, I'm sure it would be in a more abstract way. If he agreed to open our marriage for me to date other men, I would not immediately go seeking Friend. I might not even tell him until my husband and I had explored our feelings more fully. Like I said, Friend does not expect me to act on anything. I imagine he hopes, :-p but he won't be sitting around waiting for me or anything. I'm sure it helps that he is semi-long distance as well.

I have always had trouble expressing my wants and needs, feeling like I'm selfish for wanting more or different. I mean in general, too, not just in relationships. Opening this discussion with my husband would be a HUGE step for me. I am still waffling back and forth between the desire to express my feelings and the fear of doing so. Haven't said anything yet. Still trying to get my head together.
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  #20  
Old 03-26-2014, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkeertAquarian View Post
I have always had trouble expressing my wants and needs, feeling like I'm selfish for wanting more or different. I mean in general, too, not just in relationships. Opening this discussion with my husband would be a HUGE step for me. I am still waffling back and forth between the desire to express my feelings and the fear of doing so. Haven't said anything yet. Still trying to get my head together.
Conflict resolution is harder for some of us to dive into than others, I get that. The last time I saw my shrink he told me that when I avoid situations which are bothering me I am, in fact, just making it worse. It *seems* like I'm making my life easier by pretending to let things slide but I am just building up resentments (for other people and toward myself). I still suck at addressing issues with people but I'm working on it.

If there is something in your life that you disagree with (this OPP sounds like it is one of those things) then speak up. Life is too short to live it unhappily if all we have to do is speak our minds.
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