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  #51  
Old 08-16-2014, 08:27 PM
LoveBunny LoveBunny is offline
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So I might have a new lover Yeah, I know I was hoping for a woman, but this man is an absolute dreamboat: muscled, blonde, chiseled jaw, successful, and in a non-monogamous life-partnership. Dylan is bisexual and has a male partner, who I'll probably meet when I see Dylan again in a few days. Dylan describes himself as romantically attracted to both genders, whereas his partner is into women sexually but not as much romantically. They like threesomes with women, but Dylan especially also enjoys alone time with a woman.

We were fixed up by my friend Bess, who is Dylan's roommate and former lover. She 'd been meaning to give him my number for months. Not sure why she finally got around to it. Perhaps he's finally over his last relationship with a woman, who left him to seek a monogamous situation (which was also why Bess ended her FWB situation with Dylan-- and because they were all moving in together which they both agreed complicated things.)

When he showed up at the restaurant, I recognized him right away from a fundraiser a few weeks back. Not knowing he was Bess's roomie, I had approached him while he was talking to a female friend of mine. I complemented his muscles or some line. I kind of assumed he was gay, but I definitely noticed him.

Earlier last night, I'd attended at a fundraiser for a local environmental organization for which I'm on the Board of Directors. I'd had a few drinks, and, when I sat down with Dylan, I was uncharacteristically nervous, and not uncharacteristically, a little drunk. Dylan is AA, so I didn't want to act bombed. I think I overcompensated and talked to much.

I was not at all certain Dylan would find me attractive. He and his partner own a local fitness franchise, and I'm not a hard body. I have a healthy outdoor active job which keeps me from getting fat, I spend 15 to 30 hours a week biking, kayaking, and paddleboarding, but I hate "working out," so I don't, plus I love to eat. So, yeah, my middle sometimes muffintops and my butt sags a little.

I'm happy to report, Dylan seemed interested. He gave me long stares, slow smiles, and at the end of the date, we kissed on the lips. So there was some chemistry, but I wonder if there's compatibility. I worry that I'm too much of a party girl/slacker for a guy who is AA, works 60 hours a week, and spends his life in the gym. Is he going to be able to give me enough time and attention to hold my interest? Is he going to be disgusted by my lack of ambition, my absence of hard muscle, and my love of mind-altering substances? Bess was surely more his type: a runner and weight-lifter, AA, and owns her own business....

I explained to Dylan that I'm supposed maintain a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy with men when it comes to Arlo. I recently agreed to this, but it was getting on my nerves last night because Arlo texted me like five times while I was with Dylan, wanting me to meet him for karaoke, and I couldn't just text him back "On a date. TTYL." But I wonder if Arlo might actually make an exception for guy in a gay relationship. Back when we were dating, Arlo didn't care when I had sex with Matt, because Matt was bisexual, and somehow, in Arlo's convoluted straight-guy reasoning, that made Matt "gay" and not a threat. So maybe that's a loophole?

I was unable to linger long with Dylan, but that's okay, left him wanting more, right? I met Arlo and some friends for karaoke, but Arlo was being fucking annoying. I can't stand him when he's drunk, and he kept slapping my ass. Not sure what that was about, I wonder if he sensed I was with someone during the hour I wasn't responding to his texts, and he was trying to claim me? degrade me? sexually in some way. Yuck. I told him this morning not to do that again.

Incidentally, I learned that Bess once hooked up with the male masseuse (masseur is the correct term I just learned) who I was thinking of hitting up for some sexual play. Bess said he was good, but he's "too feminine" for her and "he talked sooo much afterwards." I went to a pole dancing class with him earlier this week, but he didn't want to come out for a drink with me afterwards. I don't think he knows that I'm non-monogamous, and so far, I haven't been interested in saying so straight out. I don't think I'll return to the pole-dancing class. I can feel how well it worked my body, but I just didn't love it and I wasn't particularly good at it. Anyway, I'm not motivated to cultivate anything sexual with the masseur as long as there's a chance Dylan (and his partner?) and I will work out.
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  #52  
Old 08-25-2014, 05:09 PM
LoveBunny LoveBunny is offline
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Default separation--permanent this time?

I threw my husband out of the house the morning after his birthday. I was working an evening shift, and we had plans to celebrate together the next day. As I finished my shift, I started getting calls from my girlfriends that they were at my hubby's favorite wine bar, partying with him, and he was really messed up, and perhaps I should come get him. I told them to put him in a cab; I didn't understand how fucked up he was. One of the girls had given him a Xanax. She's an idiot to give an obvious drunk a pill, but she thought he'd save it for later, not pop it on the spot. Eventually, same girlfriend decided she'd better drive him home. Where the hell were HIS lame-ass friends?!

I cannot describe how ashamed I felt at the sight of my sloppy wasted husband still in his dirty work shirt being carried up my front steps by two of my dressed-to-kill, gorgeous female friends. At one point, he fell and hit his head on the pavement. That's the second time in recent weeks I watched him fall and hit his head. (Last time, we were leaving the same wine bar, I was not drunk, he was, he wanted to ride his bike home. I watched him try to pedal, fall, and hit his head. Then, I put him and his bike in a cab and rode my moped home.)

The rest of birthday night was horrible, he kept falling off the couch, out of the bed. At one point I found him passed out on the bathroom floor. I got little sleep. Morning, he came out sort of pretending like nothing happened, saying, wow, he'd had a great time, I went atomic. I'm ashamed to say I got physical. I pushed him and grabbed his shirt and threated to punch him. He told me to get a lawyer, the marriage is OVER.

A few days later, we had a sit-down and talked in a calm, loving way, and agreed on a trial separation. We're communicating, we're trying to help each other, but if it comes down to it, I'll move out with the pets and he's agreed to pay alimony. I've told him I'm open to reconciliation, but I'd need to see some real positive steps towards him being a healthier, happier person with much more self-control. I gave him some suggestions: see a shrink once a week and join a baseball team, or take up karate and go to A.A. meetings, or try acupuncture and learn to sail. I don't care, but do things to make the sloppy, unreliable, flaccid creature he's become go away. I also told him to really THINK about if he wants to reconcile, because if my lovestyle and sexuality and my reluctance to bear children is a large part of what's making him sick, he needs to divorce me for both our sakes.

My ambivalence to my marriage cannot be denied. I love Arlo to pieces and cannot imagine ever being closer and acting more myself with another human being. Even at his worse, he's a fairly reliable provider and so super talented at what he does. And he's adorable and hilarious. But sometimes he feels like a burden. He lost his license years ago and can't drive. He loses things all the time: his keys, his phone, his bike lock, his bank card. He embarrasses me by getting so wasted when we're out together, and I feel like I'm babysitting. I also cannot deny I've distanced myself from him in many ways over the last few years, and my decision to no longer tolerate monogamy is part of that. As was our separating finances, cultivating separate social lives, etc..

It hurts me to watch him suffer, but he won't go to a doctor when he needs to, won't get help when he needs it. It's exhausting trying to get him to tend to his own needs, let alone mine. I know this needs to happen, change is good, but it's scary and painful. For now, I'm a state of limbo where I don't know if I should be mourning my marriage and moving on, or if I should keep a spark of hope that Arlo will come around and we rebuild ourselves stronger than before.

Dating is probably not a great idea right now, though on the other hand, some romantic attention might salvage my ego and ease the sting of sleeping alone. The dreamboat fitness guy I met last week has been sick and is busy, we've texted a bit back and forth but haven't got together again. Probably for the best, I have so much thinking to do and I don't know what my state will be over the next few weeks and months.
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  #53  
Old 09-05-2014, 07:44 PM
LoveBunny LoveBunny is offline
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Default Recap, With Questions

For anyone just tuning in: I'm a bisexual female, in open/multiple relationships throughout young adulthood, then settled into monogamy with my husband, "Arlo," stayed monogamous over a decade. Two years ago, I fell for a solo-poly female and asked Arlo to open the marriage so I could be with her. After she and I imploded, I did not wish to return to monogamy. I've enjoyed a couple of male lovers since, but nothing serious, and I kept them "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" as per Arlo's desires. Frankly, I'd rather date women, and date openly, but I've had no luck finding compatible females. Currently, there is no one special in my life besides Arlo.

Arlo had no desire for an open marriage, but managed some level of acceptance. In some ways become we became stronger: better communicators, more honest, and personally, I grew more confident, open, and independent. But Arlo was very hurt by my decision not to keep a pregnancy soon after we'd opened up the marriage, and has had to deal with his own feelings of loss--feelings I don't share.

Lately, Arlo's substance abuse has progressed beyond what I deem acceptable, and our sex has deteriorated beyond what I can tolerate. A couple of weeks ago, after much drunk drama, we agreed on a trial separation. We are not seriously discussing divorce, most of his stuff is sill here and he still pays a portion of the rent on the house, though he's rented a room in town where he sleeps. We are not wearing our wedding rings. Some friends know, our families do not.

I'm assessing my ambivalence about my marriage, in limbo, waiting to see if Arlo can get a grip on himself and acknowledge his own ambivalence (he says he still wants me for his wife, but he doesn't act like a happy man.) Needless to say, this is taking up pretty much all of my mental space.

Some self-help books/sites say I shouldn't be dating, I should be focusing on myself and my marriage. But a woman has needs, damn it, and I enjoy dating. I also want to "explore my options," and Arlo has urged me to do so.

But am I setting myself, and others, up for disappointment? What are the chances someone will excite me enough to make me want to revel in my hard-won sexual freedom? Hell, it took over a decade before anyone excited me enough to make me want out of monogamy in the first place. And do disappointing encounters prove that what I have with Arlo is worth giving monogamy another whirl? What about ten years down the road when someone else comes along I can't resist?

During this time of transition and Big Questions, is it ethical for me to date as a journey of self-discovery, or would it better for the world if I put that sort of thing on hold?

For example, the other night, I went out with a guy who contacted me on AdultFriendFinder. Nice, cute, a bit dorky for my tastes, but he smells good and has a nice package (pics on his profile.) My honest thought is that I'm horny and he's nice, so why not hit that?

But I would be insulted if someone told me: "I'm not interested in anything more than a fling with you. I would consider having sex with you once or twice, if you're agreeable. Then I'll probably just stop calling." Ugh, I think I just wrote my new dating profile....

Honestly, I don't want to be a jerk. He seems like a nice guy who would like a real relationship. He'd also, I'm pretty sure, take the sex. Is this taking advantage of another human being? Would you answer differently if I was a man, and the person in question was a woman?

I'm disappointed that Dylan, the hot bi guy I met through my friend Bess, hasn't returned my text from two days ago. He also ignored a "flirt" message on AdultFriendFinder to him and his partner. Bess told me she was surprised he hadn't contacted me again, because he'd told her liked me. I shall not pursue further.
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  #54  
Old 09-20-2014, 02:16 PM
LoveBunny LoveBunny is offline
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Well, Arlo finally delivered the ultimatum: monogamy for the rest of our lives, or he's moving on. I'm trying to give the idea the consideration it's due; what he's asking me for is what most men ask of their wives. I'm just not sure I can give it to him without dimming my own light.

It's been a month of separation, and I alternate between feeling fine, relieved, and hopeful, to terrified, sick, sad, and heartbroken. Ending 17 years of couplehood sucks. We still haven't told our families, his comes to visit in a couple of weeks, and I haven't spoken to mine lately. They will all be sad and worried and won't understand. Yesterday, I finally took down our wedding pictures from the wall, took our framed vacation photos off the bookshelves, and hid our relationship statuses on Facebook. You don't end a marriage all at once, I guess, it gets taken apart in small pieces.

And, universe be cursed, it is time to put a beloved pet to sleep. The animal is 16 years old, blind, immobile, but I am having trouble doing what I know needs to be done. The death of my marriage and the death of my animal companion are just too much at once. I can't seem to make the call to the vet I know I need to make.

Arlo and I still see each other two or three times a week. We are no longer sexual, but there is still love between us and very strong attachment. I will stay in the house the next couple of months until the lease on his room is up, then I need to find an efficiency apartment or a room somewhere, and he takes over the lease on our 1-bedroom house. I can't afford to stay here alone, and he can, plus his credit is bad and he will have trouble finding a landlord willing to give him a lease without riding on my credit. He's agreed to help me with a certain amount of money each month for as long as needed.

Every time we see each other we cry. It is so sad, but I just don't see how we could ever overcome these obstacles and return to a place of passionate, trusting love again. I'm not convinced I can go back to monogamy, not with him anyway and his once-a-month libido with the same three positions every time. Plus there's the fact that he just won't forgive me for my abortion. I had no idea how badly he wanted that child.

I still see him smoking too much and drinking too much, but a least he's no longer falling-down drunk as far as I've seen. He's still doing stupid shit like biking around at night with no lights. The other evening he was at the house and he kept misplacing his eye glasses then getting frustrated because he couldn't find them. I was reminded how little I want to be his caregiver.

Still, the pain of losing Arlo, my only real family, sometimes floors me. In the past, my emotional pain used to express itself as depression. Now it seems to manifest as anxiety. I had a panic attack a couple of days ago at work so bad I nearly fainted. I'm on edge all the time, my hands shake. If it doesn't subside soon, I will see my pill-pusher and try an anti-anxiety.

In better news, I met a man on AdultFriendFinder who I really like. In fact, the resemblances between us are uncanny. He's eco-conscious, doesn't care about sports, has had some experience with open relationships, is vegetarian, etc.. Most significantly, he's just two months separated from his own five-year marriage. He just signed divorce papers, and like Arlo and me, he and his soon-to-be-ex are also feeling their way towards a close friendship. It's great to talk to someone who gets exactly what I'm going through. I'm the first woman he's fooled around with since his wife. We haven't had sex, but I really enjoyed making out and foreplay with him, plus we have a similar geeky, quirky sense of humor.

I should be doing the yard work now, but I'm actively avoiding the next-door neighbors whose backyard abuts mine. I'm pretty sure they know about my separation, as they frequent Arlo's favorite wine bar, and I'm guessing he told them. They are also friends with Coco (I introduced them) and knew about my relationship with her and my strife with Arlo over it. I just feel sooo awkward around them. But I can't hide in my house forever, can I, when the sun and the breeze is so beautiful, and the leaves have fallen and the fishpond needs cleaning???
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Last edited by LoveBunny; 09-20-2014 at 02:25 PM.
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  #55  
Old 09-25-2014, 07:02 AM
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I am sorry he gave you an ultimatum. But... shouldn't he be focusing on getting clean and sober instead of making ultimatums about your relationship? And if he is serious about cleaning up his act, 12-step programs usually recommend not making big life changes during the first year of sobriety. He needs to place his attention on getting well and learning what issues he was avoiding by turning to drink (and drugs?). If I were you, I'd remind him of that. Indeed, he has no place issuing ultimatums - and just because someone does that, does not mean we have to accept those terms.
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An excellent blog post on hierarchy in polyamory:
solopoly.net/2014/10/31/why-im-not-a-secondary-partner-the-short-version/
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  #56  
Old 09-25-2014, 12:47 PM
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@nycindie, I suspect he's trying to finding external reasons for his behavior where he should be looking internally, but whatever. I no longer take responsibility for fixing him, enlightening him, helping him evolve, etc...

Frankly, I flinch at the idea of AA. I know it's helped many people, but the AA folks I know, it's almost like they're in a cult, so dogmatic, AA becomes the new addiction. Personally, I would find the tenets of AA unworkable (the goal is TOTAL ABSTINENCE the first step of which is....TOTAL ABSTINENCE!) Also, the whole "higher power" thing just sticks in my craw as an athiest. I honestly don't believe the universe gives a rat's ass about our tiny individual lives, and Arlo feels the same. So, I looked into Moderation Management and Harm Reduction, of course, we don't have any practitioners of either system here, just AA. I'm not even asking Arlo for total sobriety, just reasonable, adult behavior, and overall leaning towards better physical and emotional health. If he were to choose AA of course I'd support him, but he's rebellious, like me, and I doubt he'd go willingly.

Currently, I see no reason to submit to his ultimatum. I would have to see enormous changes in him to even consider it, and I doubt those are forthcoming.
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Old 09-30-2014, 06:06 PM
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Arlo, my husband from whom I'm separated, seems to be doing well. I guess me throwing him out of the house was the best thing for him, now he's stopped getting so wasted all the time (in front of me anyway,) he's started volunteering for community events, and biking around town every morning. We had sex recently, for the first time in a few months. I'm still processing how I feel about it ,and what it meant.

One of the hardest parts of this separation is watching Arlo detach from me. I know it's what he needs to do, and what I need him to do, but it still hurts to watch the person who has loved me most in my life shutting down when it comes to me. We are kind to each other, or try to be, whenever we spend time together. I do not think he wants to move back in with me. I think he enjoys that no one complains about his smoking, or blows up his phone in the middle of the night when he hasn't come home yet. Now he can concentrate on his work projects without someone clamoring for his attention (me.)

I recently met a guy, Topher, who is also newly separated from his wife of 5 years, and, like Arlo and me, they are still close and trying to be kind to each other. Topher and I had sex last night for the first time, I really enjoy the way his penis tastes and feels in me. He did not spend the night, which was okay--I'm not sure I'm there yet either. But I am feeling some self-pity that I have no one in my life who spends the night with me anymore
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Old 10-04-2014, 09:27 PM
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I ran into Arlo Tuesday night while I was out bar-hopping with girlfriends. He was drunk and grouchy and we ended up arguing. He was very apologetic the next day, and I forgave immediately. I know he's trying to do better, and I believe he's been succeeding mostly; change is never instant.

Arlo showed me where he's been living this last month and a half, and it's a dump, I felt awful. I've got to find myself a cheaper living situation so he's not paying so much of my rent and can get himself a better apartment. He wants me to stay in the house indefinitely, but I don't want to feel this indebted to him.

A female friend I hadn't seen in a while invited me over to her house to watch a show we both follow. She lives with her boyfriend, her two school-age kids, and just got a puppy (who I wanted to meet.) She said the kids would be in bed, we could drink wine, catch up, etc..

When I got there, she was last-minute sitting a friend's teething baby, who would not stop crying, the kids were still up wanting her to do this or that for them, the husband was stomping around saying "Babe, where's my socks?" and "Babe, is the macaroni ready?"

Basically, she is the mother/wife/caregiver I've decided not to be. Ok, I liked the puppy, the puppy was friggin' adorable, though he did poop on the carpet while I was there, but the rest of it just seems so draining. I envy her ability to be happy as a family woman. But this is a path I've very deliberately turned away from.

Topher took me out on his boat yesterday. He is perfect for me right now, this nice, super-laid-back stoner who totally gets what I'm going through with Arlo. We fucked all day in the middle of the ocean, and I'm pretty sure they saw my orgasm from space. He said his soon-to-be-ex-wife never went with him on the boat, let alone had sex with him on it. I admit I cyber-stalked the wife. She's gorgeous, mid-twenties, very fit. Topher is a bit younger than me, mid-thirties, slender. The only thing giving away that he himself isn't twenty-something is his receding hairline.

I keep stumbling across magazine/internet articles written by middle-aged women complaining that the only men they can get are fat, bald, and unable to maintain an erection. Maybe I've been lucky, but I'm finding the men attracted to me in my middle-age to be awesome. They take care of their bodies, they have money and nice toys, and they've learned by now how to please a woman.

I would like to know if Topher plans on sticking around in my life for a bit, but I don't want to ruin our light, easy mood.
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Old 10-17-2014, 05:12 PM
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My friends think it's weird and confusing that Arlo and I still hang out, still make love, still cuddle and watch movies and go to dinner together, though we're separated. I say you don't dissolve 17 years together all at once. Actually, this is the sort of out-of-the-box relationship I love, but I am surprised that Arlo allows it. I keep asking if I'm making things worse for him or confusing things, and he assures me he's comfortable with our current arrangement. We are separated but still romantically involved, I guess.

Arlo has a bit of a new love interest, a woman he did some "heavy petting" with before she went back to her home state, which happens to be his home state, too. She talks about moving here in the near future, I don't know what will happen if she returns, I'd guess my relationship with Arlo would have to change to strictly platonic so he have the monogamous relationship he so desperately desires with her.

Meanwhile, that great guy I had un-freaking-believable sex with a couple of weeks ago, Topher, seems to have disappeared. I even texted him once to ask him if he'd like to see a movie sometime during the week, and he just never replied. I wonder if he went back to his much-younger hottie wife. Such a bummer.
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Old 10-28-2014, 09:36 PM
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Arlo and I have been spending a night or two together a week. I'm getting used to him not living here, and starting to enjoy it. I'm a Highly Sensitive Person, and Arlo's stomping, slamming, leaving his socks wherever, tv-constantly-on personality often irritated me. At least now I don't find him so aggravating. And I don't have to deal with him when he's drunk and surly, only when he's feeling lonely and romantic. Or maybe I'm just looking on the bright side. Sometimes it does feel very lonely in the house without him.

I don't suppose Arlo and I will stay in this state of married-but-separated-but-intimate forever. He'll want to find a monogamous, baby-making, meat-eating, cigarette-smoking woman one of these days, and suddenly he won't have the means for me anymore.

Saturday night I was in the Fantasy Fest parade. I got high on "molly," which I only do during Fest, and I had a perfect, perfect moment. I was giving out beads to people in the crowd, only handing them out if someone gave me a moment of real connection: a genuine smile, a kind word or two, danced with me...

I spotted the most gorgeous creature, a young woman, blonde, sexy outfit--trouble. Totally my type. She lifted her huge doe eyes to me and I put the beads in my teeth. I walked to her and held still in front of her. She bent down, put her lips to one side of my face, then the other, then put her mouth on mine, taking the beads out of my mouth with her tongue, planting a gentle kiss on my lips at the end.

I blushed, suddenly shy, and turned back to my float. A beautiful lesbian friend of mine was watching, and when I walked back to her she said, "That was my favorite moment of the whole night." The music was beautiful, my friends in the parade looked fabulous, life was perfect and lovely.

If only I could just stay inside that moment. If only I could always, always feel so peaceful, confident, and loved, so utterly smitten by the moment.
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Last edited by LoveBunny; 10-28-2014 at 09:41 PM.
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