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Old 03-14-2014, 01:02 PM
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Default Poly is the "new gay"

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews...13-215357.html

While I'm glad that the poly movement is picking up steam (apparently?) I'm not so sure about the common theme of comparing poly acceptance to gay acceptance.

Okay, maybe there are some parallels. I believe that homosexuality is mostly innate (genetic, biological, etc) and I also believe that monogamy/non-monogamy are also largely innate (sexual dimorphism) but I dunno...

Maybe it's because as a white, cis-gendered male I don't see any need to assert that polyamory is oppressed. Legally speaking it is not acknowledged. Socially speaking many people do not understand or accept it. But oppressed? Drawing parallels between the homophobia of the mid-20th century? That's going a little far and I think it's unfair to gay people.

Seriously, gay people still get beat up in school and on the street in NYC! Ever hear of a poly person getting beaten up for being poly? I haven't.

Then again, I'm fairly young and I've never had to hide my lifestyle out of fear of repercussions.

Thoughts? I'm just lacking perspective and/or lucky for not having experienced trouble? Is it fair to draw a parallel between gay rights and poly rights?
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Old 03-14-2014, 01:20 PM
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I think it may be more accurate to say that while poly/mono isn't innate the way that sexual orientation is, it's not a choice either. Perhaps it's more like being vegan or atheist. I became an atheist because I looked at the arguments for and against God and found the arguments lacking and found the ones arguing against God to be pretty good. I didn't choose to be an atheist, but I was faced with what seemed to me to be a truth I just couldn't deny. And I would assume a similar thing happens to people who decide to become vegan. It's just a realisation of something they can't deny.
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Old 03-14-2014, 01:38 PM
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Polyamory, as a term, is new. Poly relationships are not new, but have been surpressed if not oppressed, for a long time.

Sadly, that article promotes the usual misunderstanding of polyamory. It shows a male hand and 2 different women's hands, who seem to want to all marry each other.

Nothing new or particularly controversial about that! Polygyny is still quite common. It was only outlawed in the US back in the late 1800s, when Mormon men were marrying multiple wives, often against the womens' will.

As a poly woman, who is also bi, and was married monogamously for 30 years, I definitely felt oppressed by my culture at large, and husband specifically, for having feelings towards others (sexual or emotional). Heck, my ex was even jealous of my platonic girlfriends taking up my time.

The ability for women to have more than one male sexual partner in her life was suppressed and outlawed as far back as the time when society changed from horticultural to agricultural. Homosexuality was also suppressed in Hebrew culture as a means of encouraging reproduction. But in more secure cultures, such as large empires, Greece, Rome, homosexuality was seen as a good thing.

So you could say, the autonomy of women is linked to the taboo of polyamory, specifically one woman with more than one man. This has been going on for longer, worldwide, than the taboo of homosexuality.
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Old 03-14-2014, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiberius View Post
I think it may be more accurate to say that while poly/mono isn't innate the way that sexual orientation is, it's not a choice either.
Whoa! That might be accurate for you, but not for every practicing polyamorist. For many, including myself, it is a practice and approach we consciously choose, even though we could also be perfectly happy to practice monogamy.
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Old 03-14-2014, 11:06 PM
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Whoa! That might be accurate for you, but not for every practicing polyamorist. For many, including myself, it is a practice and approach we consciously choose, even though we could also be perfectly happy to practice monogamy.
A bit of a misunderstanding here, I think.

I meant that I didn't choose to think that poly is acceptable. I just learned about it and realised that it made sense to me. I can't choose if something makes sense to me or not.

There are people out there who think that poly is just wrong and shoupld never happen. Could you "choose" to believe this? Do you think that those people could just "choose" to believe that poly is suddenly alright? In this sense it isn't a choice. That's what I was getting at.
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Old 03-15-2014, 12:13 PM
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I agree with the OP. While there are similarities between the two fights for acceptance, poly is starting way, way ahead. Homosexuality starting with people being killed over it, going to prison over it. This doesn't happen with polyamory. Homosexuality, when considered wrong, is usually considered wrong even when the person is single. Here again, no such problem with polyamorous people that I've ever been the target of.

I think the concepts are similar, of "let people have relationships with who they want, provided the other party feels the same way" but we don't need to defend our basic human rights the way gay people have.
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Old 04-01-2014, 04:57 AM
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Default but in terms of how we are treated

I do find a lot of parallels. For example, my lesbian sister has a trans boyfriend, and my parents fall all over themselves to welcome him into the family. I have been told that they are not interested in meeting my boyfriend, as I have a husband already, and that should be enough for anyone. (I should mention, my mother is a family therapist). My boyfriend is afraid to introduce me to his daughter, in case it got back to his ex-wife that he is dating someone who is poly. He is nervous that she might use that info to limit his access to his child. No, I haven't been beat up for being poly, but i do think there is a pretty intrinsic discrimination, that many people don't even question.
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Old 04-01-2014, 06:16 AM
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There are parts of the world where people, especially women, are still stoned to death for having multiple lovers. Those are the lucky ones. The unlucky ones have their genitals mutilated and their faces melted with acid so that no one else will want them. There was a woman in Ontario who was killed by her own family (husband, father, brother) a few years ago, because they discovered she'd been having an affair. Granted, that's not "consensual polyamory," but it's hard to be open and honest with your husband when the reward is having your face melted off.

In the western world, I definitely think the discrimination against homosexuals is more widespread and violent than that against non-monogamists. However, that doesn't mean non-monos don't face discrimination. There are people who fear losing their kids, their jobs, their friends, all because they feel trapped by monogamy.

There are two levels of choice. There's the level of acting out on your desires, and then there's the level of having those desires in the first place. While I do agree that any of us can choose what relationships we form, and whether to form relationships that do not satisfy our desires, the same is true of homosexuals. Gays have been faking it with the perfect wife and white picket fence for longer than there have been white picket fences.

I can't choose to be fulfilled within the confines of monogamy any more than a gay man can choose to be fulfilled with a wife and two kids. I would prefer to choose no relationship at all over a monogamous relationship where I'm not free to express my desires.
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Old 04-01-2014, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanor View Post
I do find a lot of parallels. For example, my lesbian sister has a trans boyfriend, and my parents fall all over themselves to welcome him into the family. I have been told that they are not interested in meeting my boyfriend, as I have a husband already, and that should be enough for anyone. (I should mention, my mother is a family therapist). My boyfriend is afraid to introduce me to his daughter, in case it got back to his ex-wife that he is dating someone who is poly. He is nervous that she might use that info to limit his access to his child. No, I haven't been beat up for being poly, but i do think there is a pretty intrinsic discrimination, that many people don't even question.
Yes, I have seen some of that sort of behavior; It's just wrong and that's all there is too it!

I've seen many more detractors of polyamory instinctively make the comparison between homosexuality (marriage equality) and ethical non-monogamy. One famous quote sums it perfectly: "If you give a shit about the future, then yes, non-monogamy is wrong."

This person's implication was that non-monogamy is destructive to natural reproductive cycles (and to hell with what science has to say about mixing genes!) But he was also drawing a parallel between homosexuality - obviously two same-sex individuals generally will not naturally procreate. Of course this is a pretty sterile argument as there are things such as adoption, surrogates, and artificial insemination. Furthermore, it's not anyone's responsibility to procreate.

I call those people moral imperialists - they want to impose responsibility onto everyone else for some strange reason.

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Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post
There are parts of the world where people, especially women, are still stoned to death for having multiple lovers. Those are the lucky ones. The unlucky ones have their genitals mutilated and their faces melted with acid so that no one else will want them. There was a woman in Ontario who was killed by her own family (husband, father, brother) a few years ago, because they discovered she'd been having an affair. Granted, that's not "consensual polyamory," but it's hard to be open and honest with your husband when the reward is having your face melted off.

In the western world, I definitely think the discrimination against homosexuals is more widespread and violent than that against non-monogamists. However, that doesn't mean non-monos don't face discrimination. There are people who fear losing their kids, their jobs, their friends, all because they feel trapped by monogamy.

There are two levels of choice. There's the level of acting out on your desires, and then there's the level of having those desires in the first place. While I do agree that any of us can choose what relationships we form, and whether to form relationships that do not satisfy our desires, the same is true of homosexuals. Gays have been faking it with the perfect wife and white picket fence for longer than there have been white picket fences.

I can't choose to be fulfilled within the confines of monogamy any more than a gay man can choose to be fulfilled with a wife and two kids. I would prefer to choose no relationship at all over a monogamous relationship where I'm not free to express my desires.
My stepbrother came out as gay just before I came out as poly. He comes from a very religious community and his wife + her entire family showed just how horrible they could be.

The thing that struck me the most was the total disregard for HIS wellbeing. They didn't care that he's been suffering with severe anxiety and depression for nearly a decade due to this struggle. All they cared about was their flaming idiotic standards and ideals.

One thing I cannot stand are those people who put their notions of what "God wants" before all else. As if it is their job to enforce what god wants.
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Old 04-01-2014, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
This person's implication was that non-monogamy is destructive to natural reproductive cycles (and to hell with what science has to say about mixing genes!) But he was also drawing a parallel between homosexuality - obviously two same-sex individuals generally will not naturally procreate. Of course this is a pretty sterile argument as there are things such as adoption, surrogates, and artificial insemination. Furthermore, it's not anyone's responsibility to procreate.
Right. Because the human species is facing a dire risk of running out of babies any time soon.

Oh sorry. We're just at risk of running out of "the right kind" of babies. That is, perfect little white Christian ones. No loss, if you ask me.

I mean, that argument may have held some weight some, oh, 3,000,000 years ago when humans were spread out and tribes were limited to 20-30 people over several thousand acres. But seriously... gay is wrong because we need more humans?
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