What's in it for a unicorn?

Disclaimer: This thread is meant to be a discussion, not about judgement. It is not intended to point others out or show weakness in any way. Everyone's journey is valid.

Why would anyone want to be one? What are the positives (and what are the negatives, for that matter) to being in a position where you are a bisexual woman with a couple, who consider themselves primary to start off with, with the hopes of "bringing you into their relationship?"

Are we limiting this to true unicorns, at least how I have always understood them: bisexual, single, committed to the couple in a poly-fi triad setup?

Everything else becomes infinitely more simple to obtain. (It sounds like I am shopping, but that's always been my take, and I like to have common ground to base a discussion on).

I will quote from my own thread:

Oddly enough, I found a mythical unicorn, one who wanted to talk about relationships. This was not one I wanted to get involved with, but she had some interesting points. Being a very honest unicorn, I found her blatantly honest about her intentions. Low self-esteem, scared to commit, and terrified of being "needed" in a relationship. She was a secondary and a unicorn by choice because she wasn't stable enough to be in a regular relationship. I know poly isn't about the unicorn hunt, but how often does it start that way? I wonder how many people really try to think about why someone would be a unicorn. I am not saying all unicorns are like this, but I know I have wondered about some.

Click to expand...

I would be curious to see answers. I have seen more honest assessments of unicorn hunting on Fetlife, where there are unicorns. They are fully aware of what they want.

If I have time later I will throw in my two cents. I started as a unicorn hunter and am not now. So I do have more opinions than just my cynical one.

First I will say, being a unicorn hunter is a great gateway drug. I would never knock it for being an introduction to possibility. However, I think finding stable well-adjusted people who want to be secondary to two people would be difficult. That's the key. The couples believe, combined, they make up one primary, but that just isn't the case. During the NRE phase this may seem Utopian, but how long can it last? How long until the "couple" becomes enthralled with themselves and their primary life? When does push come to shove? When does one of the couple change perspective on who is primary and lose focus?

Too often we use triad to define a unicorn relationship. In reality it's a scalene triangle. If everyone going in understands that and can live that in a healthy manner, then, sure, it can work. But how often can people slide in and out of primary and secondary roles? And the person getting downgraded is left insulted.

I do believe these can work, but... random thoughts:

Poly is rare
Single poly people looking for a couple are rare
Successful long-term poly relationships are rare

Combine all those and throw a bisexual into the mix, it becomes infinitely more difficult, especially when you start tacking on months and then years.

So, what can a couple offer? Not much, unless the unicorn has no interest in a primary relationship, or, I suppose, if three single people fell into a triad at the same time. Then you could almost eliminate the tiering. But in an existing couple that becomes difficult.

I would think:

1. exploration of relationships
2. sexual adventure
3. no responsibilities
4. no long-term commitment

Other things that may have a bearing: a place to stay and food to eat (if live-in) in return for sex. To some people out there, that might seem a pretty good option.

Do you think that unicorns more often than not have low self esteem? Have they been hurt so often that they want a couple to take care of them? They are not willing to commit to anything with any kind of sustaining depth and future?

If these points are true, and I'm not saying that they are for everyone, adding the combination of a couple that want to take care of a woman, covet her, own her as if she were a puppy dog rather than a person... is that mix healthy? Outside of D/s, that is.

What seems to happen is a couple searches for a unicorn in the way mentioned above and comes up with a woman that is self-motivated, independent, self-assured, interested in fulfilling a desire to be equally loved by two others, and to give in this way, also. The unicorn hunters seem to get a bit bewildered by women like this, no?

On the other hand, a unicorn looking to be owned and taken care of might find a couple that want to make her equal, and love her as such, being loved by her in the same way. Confusion reigns again, I should think.

What of triads where two fall more deeply in love with each other? What is that about? How does that happen? In the scenarios mentioned above, does this happen more or less with one scenario over another do you think?

*ponder*

Do you think that some unicorns are looking for fulfilling relationships with a couple because of issues with their parents?

(I am hoping this topic is not seen as judgmental. I seriously am not. I am interested to learn more, is all. That is where I am coming from.)

redpepper said:

Do you think that unicorns, more often than not, have low self esteem? Have been hurt so often that they want a couple to take care of them? That they are not willing to commit to anything with any kind of sustaining depth and future?

If these points are true, and I'm not saying that they are for everyone, adding the combination of a couple that want to take care of a woman, covet her, own her as if she were a puppy dog rather than a person... is that mix healthy? Outside of D/s, that is.

Click to expand...

Not knowing any unicorns, but just exploring the concept hypothetically, I would guess that becoming a unicorn is the worst thing that someone with low self esteem would need. But I could see that in some inverse way that would be attractive to them. It wouldn't help them improve, but they could sort of function in that environment. Or maybe I am just talking out of my arse here.

One thing: unicorns may not be that rare a thing. I belong to a literary forum where folks talk about books. Of all things, a thread started about open relationships, and one straight woman quite openly came out and said that she thought the highest ideal for her would be to be in a loving relationship with both a man and a woman. She thought that was something that she could really do. I was very surprised to read that on there.

Wow, an interesting thread.

I guess no bona fide unicorns have joined in yet? My reasons to go couple-hunting:

1) I already have a primary I'm not sexual with.
2) I'm not interested in having biological children, but would be very supportive if the couple did. I would cherish a co-mother/auntie position.
3) Bisexuality is a strong factor.
4) I love the energy couples have. It would bring me deep joy and contentment to see to people I love love each other.
5) I have a very high need for physical and emotional space.

I know that point 1) already disqualifies me from true unicornism, and I'd never agree on a polyfi triad. But that might just be general need of space. I'm not the least bit more interested in bigamy than I am in monogamy.

redpepper said:

Why would anyone want to be one? What are the positives (and what are the negatives, for that matter) to being in a position where you are a bi woman with a couple that consider themselves primary to start off with, with the hopes of "bringing you into their relationship?"

Click to expand...

Hey RP,

Wow, it's interesting that this topic may not have come up before, or maybe only as a secondary part of a discussion. It's a very valid and important question.

I'll try to offer some of the positives. The negatives seem to be all over the place anyway, so no sense in rehashing them. For discussion purposes, I'm defining a 'unicorn' as any bi/pan sexual girl willing to share in the lives of a couple to whatever degree suits everyone. I'm not limiting this to a poly-fi arrangement. I can see where a unicorn might easily be involved with, for example, more than one couple because of interests that were different.

But if I'm guessing right, your question is really trying to speak to, "What's in it for a third, when there's no legal commitment, and sometimes even a tenuous emotional one?"

I've seen a number of things that I would find extremely attractive but admit bias because I'm one who admires strength, independence and self confidence in a woman. And these things it seems are at the root of accepting the role of third (or whatever) and being happy in it.

1. Lack of commitment. It allows flexibility in how you can live your life. In other words, it can minimize the codependent parts that often drift into paired relationships.

2. Receiving double the love (and often attention), or more. This is an obvious one to me. I've always been unclear why this isn't given its proper due by most. Maybe that's because some can't be content sitting in the 'recipients' chair without dealing with a guilt issue about how to give back as much as you receive. But it's not that way, and not expected. The giving is what it's all about.

3. Support network. Obviously, the more people that care deeply for you, the more people you have around you to depend on in times of crisis. It happens to everyone, whether it's health, finances, emotional, whatever. The more community we have around us to step up, the easier it is on everyone.

4. Last, but often not least, the sex. If you're bi/pansexual, having the extra partners in the mix just brings certain possibilities that are simply impossible with only two. It can be an-all-at-once thing, when that mood strikes, or each individually, when other certain moods seem to fit best. To me, this was always so obvious, but seems to lack importance for the majority of women. The focus seems to be 90% on the emotional aspects and 10% on various physical possibilities. It is what it is, but that lack of balance never passed the logic test with me. I accept it, like I accept power-mongers developing enough nuclear weapons to destroy the world seven times over. But that doesn't mean it makes sense.

So what's left on the 'negative' side?

It seems that it's *mostly* (not necessarily all) about power and control. If you're a strong, independent person, living your life on your own terms, the flexibility offered would seem to fit well. If you're not, and have no real desire or attraction to that, then it would be at odds with your needs, I guess. There are no guarantees about what tomorrow might hold. We just can't admit that.

Now, if I don't catch a rash of shit over this, I'm going to be hurt ~!
GS

Thank you, GroundedSpirit! I agree fully with the four motivations you listed.

As a clarification, to go unicorn-hunting, does a couple need to hold onto each other as primaries, no matter what? In other words, is a unicorn looking for a couple to have a primary relationship with in for a rude awakening?

Also, maybe this sounds a bit naive and lame (and maybe I am both!), but what about love? Can a woman fall in love with a couple? There are different kinds of love, so maybe falling head-over-heels for two people who happen to be coupled and looking, at the same time, is a bit of a far stretch. But maybe you could fall for one, and be loving friends with the other.

So, a woman can fall in love with a couple, but does that work for the couple? They may love her, but at some point it seems to be just a fantasy. It seems that most of the time they have a naive view that the woman will do as she is told, and she has the naive view that the couple will not struggle with the pulling apart that seems to happen for them. At some point, it isn't the couple and their unicorn any more. It's three people loving each other. That is a huge and painful process for most couples, no?

GroundedSpirit said:

So what's left on the negative side?

Click to expand...

You touched on some good points, GS. I wanted to suggest that if we were to look at the negatives in more depth, it would mean looking at polyamory's negative aspects in more depth, as, to me, it means delving into people's psychological makeup more.

I have asked a few questions about that in above posts, relationship to parents, etc. We could ask the same of any poly relationship dynamic. I think it would boil down to personal placement in one's relationship life.

BlackUnicorn said:

As a clarification, to go unicorn-hunting, does a couple need to hold on to each other as primaries, no matter what? In other words, is a unicorn looking for a couple to have a primary relationship with in for a rude awakening?

Also, maybe this sounds a bit naive and lame (and maybe I am both!), but what about love? Can a woman fall in love with a couple? There are different kinds of love, and maybe falling-head-over heels for two people, who happen to be coupled and looking, at the same time, is a bit of a far stretch, but maybe falling for one and being loving friends with the other.

Click to expand...

I think there are two confusing labels involved here, and ones that get used a lot, not always to our own advantage.

The first is "couple." Is there really any such thing? I ask this with an open mind, as someone in a long-term relationship with the same person. The whole idea that we are so tight and are labeled as a "couple" has absolutely overshadowed the potential relationships with both of us. Because people choose to see us as one unit, they frequently miss the fact that, in reality, we are two individuals. In coming into our lives, you would be forming (likely) very different bonds with each of us. To me, the line is very gray about where you have a relationship with both of us, and where you have individual relationships with each of us. From experience, there is going to be some of both. We often refer to the four relationships that exist in such situations, but I wonder how much thought goes into really understanding that, rather than just parroting it.

You ask can you fall in love with a couple. I suppose you can. technically. The particular chemistry that gets developed between you all as a unit is unique in itself, as are the chemistries that develop with the individuals. I suppose anyone could "fall in love with the structure," as well as the individuals. But somehow I struggle to call that "love," as much as maybe comfort. Maybe, for me, "love" is reserved for entities, rather than concepts. Falling in love with a concept is something I've seen bring much heartache.

The other term I think that has to be handled carefully is "primary." I think the assignment of primacy is not a fixed thing, in many cases. It has to be looked at in the context of a particular element (connection) of a relationship. You might be my primary hiking partner, but not my primary reading partner. So who is really primary? It depends.

In the context that we most often find in the couple/unicorn realm, often the couple is married (legally entangled), has children, financial ties and dependencies etc. For a new person coming in, you don't become a part of this whole web overnight. Maybe you simply shouldn't even desire to. So I kind of scratch my head when I hear potential unicorns crying about how they can't get all this entanglement. It's like, duh... you get the love, you get (double?) the affection, you may get part of the shelter and other life necessities, often at little or no cost to you, you get your freedom to choose how much or how little you want, and STILL you don't get what you want?

Ooookay! Whatever.

But I can see where a unicorn might choose to say that her/his primary commitment is to the two individuals, as well as the triangle it forms, because of the love and respect that exists for them (hopefully). So any outside considerations might have to be filtered through the impact it would have on the existing relationship. But again, that's no different than the filters we have to apply in all poly relationships. It's not unique to the realm of Unicornia.

Sorry for long ramble. This whole topic has been a sore spot with me/us for a long time, as it has for countless others. Holding the views we do, and having the experience we have, being invited into an existing relationship would be a no-brainer. But because we're a "couple" (at least - maybe a tribe) nobody can seem to see the trees (individuals) for the forest (couple/tribe). They assume it's always an-all or-nothing package deal.

Granted, you'll always have to share, you'll always have to get at least a drop or two of the big picture, even if you want only the center. But that, like so many things, is an unfair and unrealistic view. Whenever you engage with another individual, you always get a little more than what you want from their whole life, whether it's work, family, pets, you name it. Really, it's no different.

Oh well...
GS

GroundedSpirit said:

. . . the realm of Unicornia.

Click to expand...

Haha! Sounds like it should be somewhere on Franklin Veaux's map of the Lands of Human Sexuality!

redpepper said:

They may love her, but at some point it seems to be just a fantasy. It seems that most of the time they have a naive view that the woman will do as she is told, and she has the naive view that the couple will not struggle with the pulling-apart that seems to happen for them. At some point, it isn't the couple and their unicorn anymore. It's three people loving each other. That is a huge and painful process for most couples, no?

Click to expand...

RP,

"Just a fantasy"? Why do you say that?

I think this is typical of the stereotypes that have developed over the years. Has this type of thing happened? You bet! Should it have happened? Absolutely not.

We all likely have had utopian fantasies on a variety of levels, but it wasn't always the concept that was a failure, as much as it was the execution. What's the difference/solution? Education, like all who participate here are involved in.

A triad or other number absolutely has all the potential for a much more stable, fulfilling life. But like so many other things with potential, if you don't do it right, it can blow up on you, despite all the potential and best intentions. And if you have no idea what's really involved going in, any success has more to do with luck than the right or wrong of it. And until the last few years, there's been very little in the way of education and communication available for people who want to try.

This can change, but not if everyone continues to spout the same old stereotypes born of the horror shows of ignorance. I can't count the number of individuals that still believe these stereotypes, and consequently cut themselves off from something that would actually offer them much of what they are crying out for, but can't find via the mono worldview.

So, we go forward with the response that it is possible, and it can be beautiful, but you have new skills to master. Get to it!

GS

GS, after a time, often a couples' "fantasy" becomes something that is just not workable because they had a "fantasy idea of what reality is" to begin with, that is not reality. When the NRE is over, does it not usually follow that when the pieces fall into place, the couple comes out together and the unicorn is abandoned? Why does this happen? Is it because couples often have a fantasy that was different from what really is?

It sounds like what you are saying is that, with education, a couple can come through that "stereotyping," as you are calling it (I think I would call it "fantasy" over "stereotype," but whatever... ) and find ways to work out healthy triads. I just want to make sure I understand that that is what you are saying.

Maybe unicorns are the production of people's stereotype, for the most part. Isn't that where these terms come from, a stereotype?

Well, here it is then, the education. I love that. Maybe in five years or less, when people come on here saying they want a unicorn, or when I go to my poly meet, or meet people on a dating site that say they want a unicorn, they will be looking for what we know of triads that work, rather than the fantasy version that seems to be mainstream poly. You never know.

How to be a healthy, happy and long-lived unicorn...

Sort of.

Below my shopping list for successful couple hunting. It might still all go to hell, but hey, no pain no gain.

1) Stay away from married couples with children, mortgages, in transition. They have already made a primary commitment to each other that is the one society recognizes. Should push come to shove, the married couple always comes first. So you love their kid and they say you can never see them again? Tough luck, shoulda seen that one coming.

Also very young couples (lived together for less than 2 years), couples in a major crisis, be it rebounding after infidelity, moving in together, buying a house, getting married, getting pregnant, contemplating ending the relationship, are a risk. Proceed with caution or not at all.

2) Keep seeing other people for love, friendship and sex.

3) Be very cautious about offers to move in with them. What if you want to entertain friends or relatives there with a moment's notice? What if the three of you keep to very different hours? Would you be doing three people's laundry instead of your own? And how secure is your hold on the apartment anyway?

4) Invest in cultivating a relationship with both members of the couple separately. Go out on dates, take a room in a hotel, travel separately. Not everybody needs to be included in all conversations/activities/sex that takes place.

5) Why not go long-distance? The couple (especially if still somewhat closeted) can hold on to their couplish life and you get all the independence you crave.

Also, entirely off-topic: Facebook users, is it possible to be in a relationship with multiple users at the same time?

redpepper said:

After a time, often a couple's "fantasy" becomes something that is just not workable because they had a fantasy idea of what reality is to begin with, that is not reality.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I think we are saying a similar thing using different terms. The point I'm trying to address is that this language itself carries with it the danger of furthering the stereotype that three-or-more-way relationships that start with an existing two are almost never workable/successful.
Has that been pretty accurate in the past? You bet it has! But why? Because the people involved had no experience, no guidance and a generally poor understanding of human psychology and sociology. In other words, they had a dream (fantasy) which was NOT UNREALISTIC, but lacked the knowledge and skills to build a finished product. How often do we see this phenomenon all around us? Great idea + poor implementation = failure.

Does this make more sense? That fact that it turned out "not workable," as you term it, had little or nothing to do with the concept, and its validity, and everything to do with their ignorance (in the true sense of the word).

redpepper said:

When the NRE is over, does it not usually follow that when the pieces fall into place, the couple comes out together, and the unicorn is abandoned?

Click to expand...

Yep, this has happened, and can. But emphasizing this as a drawback is really unfair. It's more than just about the NRE, it's about having sufficient time to really see the insides of how the relationship will develop.

This isn't unique to Unicornia. It happens in every type of relationship. In fact, some might say it's already happened inside the original pairing, and therefore, the unicorn search! Something is finally acknowledged as missing. In some cases, the only thing holding the original pairing together is the list of legal entanglements/advantages. The relationship has already shifted, in some cases, to a point it would evaporate, lacking the binders.

So, in some ways, the couple has little choice but to "come out" together, and the unicorn, at this point, has likely seen enough that they are quite willing to disentangle themselves from the mess. It's not their mess.

This speaks directly to the advantage of of the unicorn. As painful as it is, sometimes, making the right choice to walk away is much simpler.

This separation gets all the press, and nobody mentions the beautiful parts that were experienced. It's like there's this attachment (still) to "happily ever after, or broken." Nobody focuses on what was learned; all the special times and feelings experienced; all the beauty, because it didn't last forever. I call BS on this, sorry. No beautiful sunset lasts forever, but that doesn't make it less beautiful.

I say, forget the whole happily-ever-after BS. Embrace the moment and what you have in front of you. Be fully there. Everything and everyone deserves no less. Let go of the agenda.

redpepper said:

Well, here it is then, the education. I love that. Maybe in five years or less, when people come on here saying they want a unicorn, or when I go to my poly meet, or meet people on a dating site that say they want a unicorn, they will be looking for what we know of triads that work, rather than the fantasy version that seems to be mainstream poly. You never know.

Click to expand...

Yes, it could be that way, couldn't it? It's as simple as understanding that you need to sharpen your people and life skills, and that mistakes may be made along the way. Learn together. Forgive, and love more. Don't condemn the model, only the implementation.

GS

BlackUnicorn said:

... list for successful couple hunting. It might still all go to hell but, hey, no pain no gain.

1) Stay away from married couples with children, mortgages, in transition. They have already made a primary commitment to each other that is the one society recognizes. Should push come to shove, married couple always comes first. So you love their kid and they say you can never see them again? Tough luck, shoulda seen that one coming.

Click to expand...

YIKES!!! See. here is exactly what I'm talking about regarding stereotypes being projected forward.

"Stay away!" Point blank, period. Why? Because you're afraid? Lazy? (I'm not speaking to BU, but the mindset in general.) Why not UNDERSTAND the complexities of multi-partner relationships, families, finances, living arrangements etc., and understand the benefits? At least consider the trade-offs. Nothing worth having comes free, they say. That's obviously true when it comes to love and relationships. Acknowledge that what you have, in the end, is what you build.

Ahh... but you really want a 'free ride,' right? (Again not speaking to BU, but the concept.) You want to bait the hook, lay the line and then sit back and reap whatever reward your agenda pushed forward, with certain built-in securities preventing an easy exit if it turns out less that what everyone needs for happiness. Too damn bad. You got yours, right?

BlackUnicorn said:

Also, very young couples (lived together for less than 2 years), couples in a major crisis, be it rebounding after infidelity, moving in together, buying a house, getting married, getting pregnant, contemplating ending the relationship, are a risk. Proceed with caution, or not at all.

Click to expand...

Some good caution signs there. The same ones that would be caution signs in ANY potential relationship, right? People with complications in their lives... proceed slowly. But you may still proceed, as the complications may pass, or you may help resolve them. Nothing automatic here. Every case deserves its own fair analysis.

BlackUnicorn said:

3) Be very cautious about offers to move in with them.

Click to expand...

Hell yeah. Living together (anyone) is no piece of cake and requires its own skill set. Better work on that one, anyway.

BlackUnicorn said:

4) Invest in cultivating a relationship with both members of the couple separately. Go out on dates, take a room in a hotel, travel separately. Not everybody needs to be included in all conversations/activities/sex that takes place.

Click to expand...

Absolutely agree. Independence is an important part of healthy relationships.

GS

Speaking as a single bi girl, I feel I would get quite a lot from joining an existing relationship. Personally, what I'm looking for in a relationship is something caring and loving, but not all-encompassing. the idea of joining a relationship where i am not the primary focus appeals to me because i have an incredibly hard time being the sole focus.

possibly it appears somewhat selfish?

when i first peeked around here i was expecting the opposite, tbh, that there would be a more singles looking to join couples than the other way around...

perhaps its just personal preference. everyone has their own desires and reasons.

hurricandrunk said:

perhaps its just personal preference? everyone has their own desires and reasons.

Click to expand...

Absolutely. I'm not looking to join anything, as I'm in relationships with two men. If I were a single woman with no kids, I think joining a couple would be cool. I could keep my own place, have my personal space, not feel so "tied down," still have great times with my lovers without feeling guilty about them being "alone" whilst I was gone. Yep, I can see your point of view.

Poly bi wife speaking here

My writing skills are not as eloquent or cultured as many are here, so I will do my best.

I can't speak for my sweetheart on this, but I hope that she has benefits.

The obvious would be that she is also bi, and having a male and female available for sex is great.

I hope that she feels equal to me and our hubby. I would never want to bring someone into my life and make them feel second class. I could go into the details of my upbringing in a patriarchal Mormon home, but that is another discussion. I struggled to break away from the damage done to my self-worth from being taught that I was second class and that is just how God wants it. I never ever ever want to be the one who creates that situation for another human being.

Thank the gods for a loving husband whose love helped me find myself as a whole, important, valued individual.

If she did come to us with a low self-esteem, hopefully we could help change that through being loving and considerately supporting her needs, desires and dreams. I would definitely want her to grow and flourish. I doubt she is too insecure. She is a former Marine. She has a master's degree. She is much more accomplished (and younger) than I am (which makes ME feel insecure, sometimes).

I would be a liar if I didn't point that we are still working on the primary-secondary thing. For instance, when we get into hubby's car to go somewhere, she looks at me to see if I want the seat next to hubby. This is actually progress, however, because initially I couldn't get her to sit next to him, anywhere, unless there was room for me directly next to him on the other side. I think she doesn't want to make me feel less important.

Hubby and I have a more matured relationship, which may make it seem more primary, but the NRE that she brings often outshines it. She has expressed to me that sometimes she feels like hubby and I have each other, and she is a third party, on the side. Wow, how did that happen? I try so hard to avoid it,, and will continue working on it. Perhaps moving in together would help, but she is not ready to give up her apartment. We sure miss her when she is not with us. She has changed our couple relationship, we will never be the same again, with or without her.

She is getting two people who have had to learn to negotiate in order to keep our relationship a loving and fulfilling experience. We carry that into the changing dynamic of our new threesome.

Comprises? Some are easier, because we can take a 2 out of 3 vote in many situations. Hubby might not find this a fair solution, as it is 2 women against 1 man.

I also want to point out that we are talking about poly relationships. Isn't it possible to have a primary and a secondary in any poly relationship? Some mono wives often express feelings of being secondary to a mother-in-law, or her husband's buddies.

Someone might think that a wife who stays with a husband that wants another woman must have some self-esteem issue, Right? Maybe I am the one with the low self-esteem.

I came to this forum searching for answers. I learned that love is not monogamy-dimensional. Being here at this forum helped me to open my mind. When I opened my mind, my heart got bigger. Isn't that what makes poly so awesome?

I would love input. This thread has given me a lot to think about since yesterday.