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  #51  
Old 02-15-2014, 07:59 AM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Ideal is relative, subjective. Your language implies that it's absolute, objective. What's ideal for one person is nightmarish for another. Try to remember that you are not everyone and just because someone's lifestyle makes your own skin crawl, doesn't mean it isn't 100% perfect for all the people involved.

For example, I like to get to know someone BEFORE having sex. It's not part of my "early days" dating process. Meeting someone at a family bbq would be fun for me, because I know there would be fun and games, taking the pressure off awkward chit chat. And then there's food! And, since I don't like having sex with people I don't know very well, I could be guaranteed that at a family bbq, it wouldn't even be a remote issue.

I'm not big on spontaneity. I like to plan my life and know what to expect. I like predictability. Your "ideal" sounds awful to me.

That's why I really hate it when you speak in absolutes, as though your way is the best way for everyone, rather than being what it is: what's best for you personally.
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Gralson: my husband (works out of town).
Auto: my girlfriend (lives with her husband Zoffee).

The most dangerous phrase in the English language is "we've always done it this way."

Last edited by SchrodingersCat; 02-15-2014 at 08:02 AM.
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  #52  
Old 02-15-2014, 08:02 AM
london london is offline
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Not ideal for the adult?
And sorry, I edited this post for clarity.
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  #53  
Old 02-15-2014, 08:12 AM
london london is offline
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Originally Posted by SchrodingersCat View Post
Ideal is relative, subjective. Your language implies that it's absolute, objective. What's ideal for one person is nightmarish for another. Try to remember that you are not everyone and just because someone's lifestyle makes your own skin crawl, doesn't mean it isn't 100% perfect for all the people involved.

For example, I like to get to know someone BEFORE having sex. It's not part of my "early days" dating process. Meeting someone at a family bbq would be fun for me, because I know there would be fun and games, taking the pressure off awkward chit chat. And then there's food! And, since I don't like having sex with people I don't know very well, I could be guaranteed that at a family bbq, it wouldn't even be a remote issue.

I'm not big on spontaneity. I like to plan my life and know what to expect. I like predictability. Your "ideal" sounds awful to me.

That's why I really hate it when you speak in absolutes, as though your way is the best way for everyone, rather than being what it is: what's best for you personally.
Routinely and habitually allowing everyone you date around your kids before you have any indication of where the relationship is going isn't perfect for your kids, regardless of how perfect it is for their parent(s) and any partners they have.

Enjoying the luxury of more than one primary style partners whilst ensuring that it's as difficult as possible for them to form long term relationships with anyone else might be perfect for that person and beneficial for their kids but it's very unfair to the multiple partners who are having to tolerate their partner having other partners but are cut off from also having other partners.

It's ideal when the risk of harm to anyone involved is minimised and everyone is given the opportunity to meet their needs and is supported by the adult network in doing so.
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  #54  
Old 02-15-2014, 08:59 AM
PolyinPractice PolyinPractice is offline
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Some people decide to put poly on hold whilst they have a young and growing family. I completely understand that decision but that should go for everyone. If there isn't time or resources for everyone to have more than one relationship because of the family needs, nobody should have more than one relationship. It shouldn't be that one person gets to enjoy polyamory whilst the other(s) are restricted by parental and partner duties. Make realistic room for everyone to be poly, or nobody is.
Seems like a pretty awful relationship where my partner says, "Hey, honey, I'm going to go out and date cuz I feel like it, so you stay home and take care of the kids every night." :-p
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  #55  
Old 02-15-2014, 09:09 AM
london london is offline
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The way they usually do it is by making sure any partner they have basically skips or avoids any rule or restriction that they set on other relationships.

Example, say I'm with Steve and we have a child. I don't want strange people who we don't know are going to stick around involved with our kid. Steve agrees with this on principle. Fair enough. I go for a partner who is an old friend of ours, someone who is already integrated with our kid and bypasses the concerns I had about strangers. We don't have another poly friendly old friend that is mutually attracted to Steve and I am not supportive in allowing Steve time away from our family and parenting duties which makes it impossible for him to enjoy his time away from us and build successful attachments to other people. I've purposely set this situation up so I can enjoy polyamory whilst not having to deal with the inconvenience of my partner also having other romantic obligations and connections.

It's the very height of selfishness and emotional manipulation.
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  #56  
Old 02-15-2014, 04:19 PM
PolyinPractice PolyinPractice is offline
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It's the very height of selfishness and emotional manipulation.
Sadly, I've experienced worse But that's pretty terrible.
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  #57  
Old 02-15-2014, 04:32 PM
london london is offline
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The reason I think it's so bad is because it's deceptive. It appears they're being supportive but secretly they are just controlling you. But meh.
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  #58  
Old 02-15-2014, 04:40 PM
PolyinPractice PolyinPractice is offline
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The reason I think it's so bad is because it's deceptive. It appears they're being supportive but secretly they are just controlling you. But meh.
Oh, I understand! It's simply that I've seen even worse forms of manipulation. To the point where I just can't even comprehend at first....

At least that I could comprehend happening, even if it's reprehensible.
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  #59  
Old 02-15-2014, 04:52 PM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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It appears they're being supportive but secretly they are just controlling you.
Assuming they're consciously aware of what they're doing. A lot of people are incredibly oblivious to their own methods and motivations. It boggles the mind, but it's true.

A more likely scenario to me is that I'm with Steve and we have a child. Steve has been raised in a patriarchal society and believes it's primarily my responsibility to take care of the kids. He doesn't consciously realize he believes this, it just comes out in his behaviour. If you were to ask him, he would honestly tell you he believes our parenting responsibilities are shared equally. He doesn't realize how much I do behind the scenes.

Because I'm concerned that introducing new acquaintances to our children could be harmful, I ask Steve not to bring anyone home until they've been dating at least 12 months. The people Steve is interested in dating don't really want anything to do with our kids anyway, so he's happy to agree. That's when things take a turn South. Steve gets caught up in NRE and starts spending every other evening with his new girlfriend. When I bug him about never being home, all he can remember is that I made him promise not to bring her around. He thought he was just doing what I wanted.

Workaholics have been guilty of this for decades. They're the bread-winner and it's their responsibility to earn enough income to allow their family to live in comfort and security, especially if the other parent is a stay-at-home. So they work 80-hour weeks and are never around, except to sleep and brush their teeth. Their wives complain, because more than money, what they want is a present husband and father. The men are baffled because as far as they can tell, they're doing it for the family. Of course, the gender roles can be reversed.
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Gralson: my husband (works out of town).
Auto: my girlfriend (lives with her husband Zoffee).

The most dangerous phrase in the English language is "we've always done it this way."
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  #60  
Old 02-15-2014, 05:16 PM
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alibabe_muse alibabe_muse is offline
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The reason I think it's so bad is because it's deceptive. It appears they're being supportive but secretly they are just controlling you. But meh.
Gawd that is so true! And if the one "stuck" voices their discomfort and the unfairness, the other one with the "freedom" tends to say "you're trying to control me" instead of being accountable that its not equitable.
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