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  #11  
Old 01-16-2014, 07:50 AM
LadyLigeia LadyLigeia is offline
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Originally Posted by london View Post
Yes, do ignore the slut shaming that occurred earlier. Sex isn't something you give a man, it's something that should be mutually enjoyable. It isn't a reward a guy earns.

This guy just sounds like he decided he wasn't that into you. Simple as that. And that's a risk of dating. You did say that none of the physical stuff was great, that's usually an indication of incompatibility.

What I would say is that you're so adamant that you're a great kisser, not clingy or pushy etc that you don't leave room for someone to say "actually, I find you overbearing". I can tell already that you wouldn't be prepared to take their opinion on board.
Actually, I really WOULD at least take it into consideration but I've actually been accused of being the opposite. I think I have long had a "dismissive-avoidant attachment" (which I am working on!) and I've been working on it. Also, I can't imagine someone telling me, "Um, you're too overwhelming" and me being all, "PSSSHHH! Yah, OK! *eye roll*" Seriously, how could someone disregard someone telling you that they find you smothering and bad in bed? Actually, a lot of people, so I definitely don't blame you for thinking that because I honestly probably would have thought the same thing if I were reading this. It's crazy how some people will project or just hear/see what they want to ("askholes" if they ask for advice only to confirm their own opinion) so I'm always cautious and even somewhat paranoid or hypervigilant about not misreading stuff. Then again, I guess everyone is susceptible but not everyone is capable of retaining that kind of awareness. Love can be an extremely potent intoxicant, after all... But that's why stuff like this bothers me - BECAUSE I am so afraid of misinterpretation and stuff. I've started to wonder if this caution is holding me back. Fortunately, I don't make it too obvious, or so I've been told. Still, it's there and I've gotta work on it.

If someone DID tell me that I was overwhelming, I'd run for the hills. Actually, I probably would have ran for the hills before they had the chance to tell me because I would have sensed something wrong. I didn't mean to come across as arrogant.

Ignoring social cues for your own convenience + arrogance = not cool

Then again, a lot of people seem more than happy to maintain a personal illusion and shut out all outside perceptions. I don't get it.
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  #12  
Old 01-16-2014, 02:34 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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What? I wasn't trying to slut shame her. (OP, if that is how it came across to you, I apologize. That was not my intent. I was trying to talk about emotional management as related to behavior.)

I was trying to point out that what he does in his behavior is not controllable by OP. She can only control her own self. He behaved less than stellar, but that isn't her fault. It isn't even in her control how he behaves.

I was trying to point out for her emotional management -- that she could go with her own stated boundaries of "not rushing" -- and to me sex on a first date doesn't seem "slow." Her "talk and walk" do not seem to match and the outcome was her feeling UGH. Since she controls what her talk and walk are? She could do something about the mismatch to see if she feels better when they match.

IME, I find that when my talk and walk do not match I end up feeling discombobulated because I made my own waves.

If she prefers to go with a new limit for herself of "I have sex when I feel like it,my partner is agreeable to sharing sex with me" and she shares sex on a first date? Cool. That's another way to get the "talk and walk" to match. This time basing her expectation on "mutual agreeableness" rather than "speed."

I think trying to align her "talk and walk" could be helpful to consider so she doesn't feel discombobulated feelings inside anymore.

Whether she chooses to keep the previous limit and change her walk to match it?
Or keep the walk but update the talk (limit) instead?

However she feels like doing it -- could get them to match and see if she feels better when they line up.

GG

Last edited by GalaGirl; 01-16-2014 at 04:20 PM.
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  #13  
Old 01-16-2014, 02:50 PM
london london is offline
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It wasn't anything you said that I thought was slut shaming.
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  #14  
Old 01-16-2014, 02:56 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Thanks for the response, London. Appreciated.

GG

Last edited by GalaGirl; 01-16-2014 at 02:59 PM.
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  #15  
Old 01-16-2014, 03:58 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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Default Bad kissers - bad sex!

Yeah, I wish identifying as poly automatically made one a decent human being who treats other people as they would wish to be treated. Sadly, it doesn't work that way.

He was an asshole. The reasons why he was an asshole are academically interesting but ultimately have diddly squat to do with you. No need to wrack your brain for understanding - an asshole is sometimes just an asshole.

Spend like a minute thinking 'were my filters off here?'. From my outside perspective, it doesn't seem so to me. Then spend like five minutes mulling if you maybe you did not listen to your inner voice quite enough. (GG has some good thoughts on that) If so, you know what? Experience is what learns us. Now you have experience. That is not a bad thing, not something to be ashamed about.

(And by minutes I don't mean literally. Just to point out, don't spend too much time thinking about this.)

If not having sex on the first date helps to sharpen your filters and allows you to listen to your inner voice, then maybe it's a not a bad idea for you. If it allows you to value your sexual self in a more complete way, then maybe it would be useful.

BUT...

A lot of people recommend this to women - and too often the underlying reason seems to be boys are icky and will treat you bad if you 'give them what they want' quickly. (Like women don't want sex!) As if boys who don't get to fuck you right away will treat you better. -- This is bullshit. -- There is no magical number of days/weeks/months/years that will turn an asshole man into non-asshole, decent man. Assuming you had not slept with this particular jerk for a while - he still would have been a jerk. It just would have taken you longer to find that out about him and you would have wasted more time. There is no correlation between time it takes to fuck you and how men will treat you.

Yes, many women have run into men who have some sort of issue with women who fuck quickly - even if they are ones having sex with the woman. The double standard is a fucking zombie still causing havoc.

My issue with a blanket 'no fucking on first date rule' is that it reinforces the double standard. It doesn't solve the problem of women's sexuality being devalued and feared at the same time. It doesn't solve the problem of the toxic ideas that too many men are taught on how to be a man. (Don't show emotion! Don't be weak! You have to be charge!) It reinforces sex being something women 'give' away, something to be hoarded and parceled out. It makes sex something men pursue, always pushing for more, instead of a joyful mutual dance.

This is not directed at any particular poster. I see this A LOT out and about in the world. I would love to see it less.

***

That said, don't have sex with people who are bad kissers! I've never had good sex with someone whose kissing I did not like. In fact, I kiss people to make a final determination if we are sexually compatible. Bad kisser = not sexually compatible. I've found people tend to kiss how they are in bed. Sloppy, wet, and no technique? Yep, same way in bed. Aggressive, pushy? Yep, same way. Passive, lacking passion? Ditto! (Yes, this is tongue in cheek but I have really found it to be true in my life.)

Last edited by opalescent; 01-16-2014 at 04:00 PM.
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  #16  
Old 01-16-2014, 04:25 PM
InfinitePossibility InfinitePossibility is offline
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He might have backed off for any number of reasons. Maybe he just didn't feel a spark with you, he might be busy, he might struggle with social interaction, he might feel that women who have sex quickly are slutty. Who knows? I'd guess you'll never find out.

I don't like it so much right now but I did used to very much enjoy fairly casual sex and sex with friends I used to make a point of sleeping with people quickly. It's a very good way of weeding out the people who cling onto those old fashioned notions about women who have sex quickly having something wrong with them. And the ones who believe that whole madonna/whore distinction thing. There is a surprising number of those sorts around. For understandable reasons - the media and people's upbringing kind of encourages those sorts of thought patterns. I believe that many people aren't even aware of having them.

So - having sex with them very quickly is a good way to find out. The ones who think like that become weird and uncommunicative and disappear. The ones who think it's okay for women to have sex and enjoy it tend to stick around.

I would work on your worries about misinterpreting things. It seems to me like that might be causing you to have more angst about this situation than it warrants.

The reality is that we all misinterpret things regularly. Nobody can read somebody else's mind and so we are bound to get things wrong.

Plus - people are different and have different likes. I'm often told that I'm a good teacher and I think that there is some truth in that. But I bet that there are people I piss off when I teach them - there will be people who think I'm dreadful at it.

Sometimes they may have a valid point. I'm not perfect at anything and still have more to learn and I fully accept that people who are used to being taught be genius teachers like some of my friends wouldn't think I was any good. All I can do about that is strive to do better.

Sometimes they might just not like the way that I teach. My style may be unfamiliar or challenging and people don't always like the unfamiliar. In that case, I understand and I recommend they find somebody else to teach them. I have the style I have because I think it's the best way to learn but that doesn't mean that everybody likes it.

So - just because lots of people tell us that we are good at something doesn't make it true for everybody.

I think you might find some more peace if you were able to accept that it's okay to make mistakes and that it doesn't invalidate you if some people think you're bad at the things you think you're good at. It reads as though you are really keen to be good at things and that you feel like a failure if that doesn't happen. I wonder if that is part of why you find yourself still so upset about a bloke you slept with who doesn't want to have a friendship with you??

I hope you're feeling better.

IP
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  #17  
Old 01-16-2014, 04:43 PM
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YouAreHere YouAreHere is offline
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Originally Posted by opalescent View Post
That said, don't have sex with people who are bad kissers! I've never had good sex with someone whose kissing I did not like. In fact, I kiss people to make a final determination if we are sexually compatible. Bad kisser = not sexually compatible. I've found people tend to kiss how they are in bed. Sloppy, wet, and no technique? Yep, same way in bed. Aggressive, pushy? Yep, same way. Passive, lacking passion? Ditto!
I have an extremely small sample size for my own study, but my anecdotal data agrees with you.

And I really, really like kissing. Even more now that I found a really good one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by opalescent View Post
(Yes, this is tongue in cheek but I have really found it to be true in my life.)
"Tongue in cheek", eh? I see what you did there...
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  #18  
Old 01-16-2014, 05:00 PM
opalescent opalescent is offline
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Originally Posted by YouAreHere View Post
I have an extremely small sample size for my own study, but my anecdotal data agrees with you.

And I really, really like kissing. Even more now that I found a really good one.



"Tongue in cheek", eh? I see what you did there...
My work here is done.
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  #19  
Old 01-17-2014, 09:56 AM
scarletzinnia scarletzinnia is offline
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There is no correlation between time it takes to fuck you and how men will treat you.

Absolutely true. But how many creeps who are only out to get laid are going to stick around for multiple platonic dates, where they will be presumably required to be charming and engaging and have decent manners, if they can just go find some drunk chick at a bar and get laid the same night? Some, sure, but not many.

Nothing I said here "slut shamed" anyone. Not sleeping with someone right away is a FILTERING TOOL. Nothing more, nothing less.

Let me illustrate with a couple of real-life situations. A couple of years ago, I met the girlfriend of a friend. She and I compared notes about our recent dating experiences and discovered that we had each had an awful experience with the same local "poly" guy.

Mine was this. I had met him on a dating site and had a couple of emails back and forth with him and one phone call. He seemed very eager to meet in person as quickly as possible and was charming enough on the phone that I was willing to do so, even though I felt I barely knew him. We met at a restaurant that didn't take reservations and when we got there, there was an hourlong wait for a table. Since it was a lovely spring evening, we decided to take a walk in an adjoining park while we were waiting.

During that hour, he and I had some very friendly conversation about our work and common interests and what it was like for us to be poly. One thing I brought up was how polyamory, for me, is about building relationships, and to serve that goal, I preferred to get to know someone pretty well as a friend before getting physical with them.

So, my date definitely knew that he wasn't getting any sex that night. I remember that he got quiet after I said that and the conversation lagged. We went back to the restaurant and the hostess was ready to seat us when my date turned to me and told me that he just didn't want to continue the evening, that he was tired (it was about 7 pm at that point) and thought a headache might be coming on.

I didn't argue since I certainly didn't want to have dinner with someone who wasn't interested in having dinner with me. I was pretty annoyed because I'd driven a half hour to meet him, but I just left, there was no point in dragging out a bad situation.

My friend's girlfriend also met this guy on the same site and they met for dinner. She said that unlike me, she didn't set any boundaries about sex early in the evening. After dinner, they went back to his apartment and had what she described as a marathon session of very romantic, passionate sex. She said she had a great time and he seemed to as well. Lo and behold, the next day she texted him and he didn't respond. She continued to try to reach him without success for a couple of days. Then she found an email in her inbox where he told her he didn't want to see her again because she was too fat, too out of shape, and too old for him (even though he was older than she was).

Two first dates with the same creep. Mine left me mildly annoyed. My friend's girlfriend was so demoralized by her experience with said creep that she stopped dating anyone new for months, and she said she even stopped wearing sexy clothes for a while.

OP, I'm sorry about what happened to you, and I hope you have better experiences soon.
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Last edited by scarletzinnia; 01-17-2014 at 09:59 AM.
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  #20  
Old 01-17-2014, 10:48 AM
london london is offline
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Why does it matter if you sleep with someone, then find out they are an idiot? It isn't like you give a little bit of your soul to every guy you fuck.

Why is it better to have wasted x amount of time with them on platonic dates rather than have sex with them on the first date and find out they are an idiot?
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