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Old 01-13-2014, 04:21 PM
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YouAreHere YouAreHere is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SoNH
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Thanks for the editorial work, GG. Your synopsis was way more readable than the original.
Dramatis personae:
Me: 46/F, Divorced with 2 kids, 2 cats, fish, a tarantula, and a 1930s house with many projects.
Chops: 47/M, Partner of 6 years, lives half-time with me, half with Xena.
Spinner: 52/M, Friend I've been on a few dates with. Divorced, Mono, wrapping his head around it all.
Xena: 47/F, Chops' other nesting partner of 6 years
Curls: 50/F, Chops' partner of 1 year

Supporting Characters:
Choplet: Chops' son
DanceGirl: My oldest daughter
Pokégirl: My youngest daughter
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Old 01-13-2014, 09:57 PM
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Oldpolyman Oldpolyman is offline
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Usually on the East Coast
Posts: 53

Thanks GG, your rewrite actually made more sense than the original, which to me seemed to be a bunch of psycho babble, on first look.
I try to love my wives this way, unconditionally! Husbands love your wives, even as Christ loved the church, and gave himself up for her. Eph. 5:25
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Old 01-14-2014, 02:44 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Most welcome. Glad it helped.

Like I said... I didn't mind the attempt at a Tantra/ Kundalini / Buddhist angle. Reading a well executed poly piece from that lens would be interesting to me.
But in THIS awkward length of a piece it it was "taking away" rather than "adding" to it to me.

This piece does a nice, SHORT job of explaining that kind of context. Had the author started there with a similar basic premise and then tied it to how the author thinks polyshipping people could "climb the tree" so their polyshipping experience isn't (Crazy Town with plenty of dings to spiritual health) but a (more harmonious ride that doesn't tear down their spiritual health) -- I would have found that interesting.

It seemed like the author was trying to go there by offering (pitfalls to be aware of) and (suggestions for better spiritual health while polyshipping) but missing the mark in this attempt because the author took on big concepts they couldn't quite pin down. It got away from the author and became... soup.

It was frustrating to me to read. So I could totally see why it could be frustrating for others to read too!


Last edited by GalaGirl; 01-14-2014 at 03:24 AM.
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Old 01-21-2014, 12:09 AM
JaneQSmythe JaneQSmythe is offline
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Location: Pennsyl-tucky
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I finally forced myself to read the whole article. And...well, I didn't feel it addressed anything that I was interested in. Each paragraph seemed to encompass so many assumptions and belief structures that are foreign to me that it seems the author was talking about something else.

To be fair:
I don't know shit about Tantra/Tantric Sex...
I don't view sex as being an inherently spiritual practice...(perhaps because I am not a religious/spiritual person)

It seems the focus of the article is on chasing new and stimulating sexual partners...and how that could be detrimental to one's own karma and the life experience of one's children (if present). I fail to see how a rotating panel of lovers would be more detrimental to kids than a rotating panel of "close friends" - certainly parents aren't require to never change/gain friends if they have kids?!

I may not be they "typical" polyamorist (if such a thing existed) but I am not inclined to consider myself in a "serious relationship" until it is at the place where I would want it to continue for "forever" - through sickness and in health (as the author wrote). I can fully envision a future where I am changing two elderly men's diapers and catheters - why? because I love them and it has to be done. We are family now...and family takes care of their own (or, at least, the good ones do).

I was also really turned off by the admonishment that we should/must/have to keep fucking each other when we "hate each other, fear each other, be sick to fucking death of each other" - perhaps sex is the right actions for some, for others it may be the WRONG answer. Everyone has a different history, sex means different things to different people. Telling someone that they MUST fuck when they are filled with hate and fear? I think this could be very damaging.
Me: poly bi female, in an "open-but-not-looking" V-plus with -
MrS: hetero polyflexible male, live-in husband (24+ yrs)
Dude: hetero poly male, live-in boyfriend (6+ yrs) and MrS's BFF
SLeW: platonic hetero girlfriend and BFF
MrClean: hetero mono male, almost lover-friend to me, FWBs to SLeW
+ "others" = FBs, FWBs, lover-friends, platonic G/BFs, boytoys, etc.

My poly blogs here:
The Journey of JaneQSmythe
The Notebook of JaneQSmythe
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Old 01-21-2014, 04:00 AM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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I think the authors point is that while some sex share can be a spiritual practice or spiritual moment or spiritual exchange -- not EVERY sex share is so. Sex could also not be used as "escapism" or "medicine" from the orgasm brain high.

I also think the thing to keep in mind that a Koan can sound "backward" or "paradoxical" sometimes. It is meant to.

To me that bit was weakly linked and I lumped it with "figure out what commitment means" and "deal with your shit" as summary. But if you want to examine those chunks more closely... here's my take.

pg 10 -- Because here is the deal: If your version of "tantra" culminates with mind-blowing athletic sex with a host of available and skilled partners, possibly getting to tenderness, but always riding the freebase of high of novelty and dopamine until it begins to fade into the low tide mud flats of actual living, whereby you reboot and more or less do it again with a differerent of additional partner -- you are not really doing at all.
My translation:
"Don't be an NRE junkie hopping from person to person. Sex share is not "medicine" and it is not a substitute for tending to your spiritual health problems. "
pg 11

You've got to have pulled an Odysseus and lashed yourself to the mast and stuffed wax in your ears not to go mad or lose your mind when the fire of Kundalini really starts to warp and burn anything that's not pure and enduring.

And that requires sacrifice. That requires commitment. That requires setting aside childish things.
My translation:
"Don't use NRE or polyshipping as as escapism from dealing with your shit. Even if solving the shit feels hard and is getting hot and heavy, commit to solving your shit."
pg 12 -- And the only way I'm aware of to get to that place and not get bored or withdraw or go and seek some other numbing diversion or new piece of ass to reboot the franchise, is to commit to sex with a partner as ironclad practice. (see the Buddhist notion of the "Freedom of No Escape.")

What that means sounds distinctly unsexy, often the opposite of the poly-go-round -- something like ok we agree to practice -- OM, sex, dialogue, whatever -- every day whether we feel like it or not. Especially when we don't feel like it. And we're also going to agree to work with whatever comes up psychodynamically and not take it personally -- which means that rather than this being "your issue" or "my stuff" we treat it simply as "stuff" and we approach it with curiosity and commitment.
My translation:
"Don't be seeking new sex partners when there's shit to deal with and conflict resolution to be doing. Commit to no sex with anyone but the partner you are having shit with with. So that you WILL deal with the shit and return to right relationship with yourself rather than avoiding it and dinging your own spiritual health. Not through literally having sex with them, but by engaging with them daily in some fashion until the shit gets solved one way or another. Do your conflict resolution.

Don't waste time spinning the blame game wheel. Move it forward -- here's some shit that happened. How can the shit best be cleaned up? "
The author is asking the reader to commit to "There's no escape from the shit until the shit gets solved one way or another."

There's no other lover but this lover til the shit gets solved -- and since you likely are not wanting sex share with this lover? And since you committed to not have any sex share with other or new lovers but this lover til this is solved? The result is that you REALLY want to get the shit solved and off your plate so you can finally get on with the rest of your life!

The shit could be solved by BREAKING UP with this lover. So deal with the shit and stop avoiding.

That's why I think the author brought in the quote --
pg 13 The English tantric teacher Barry Long used to say "until you rather eat a shit sandwich than sleep with your partner, you are not ready to begin."
If you are an avoidy type personality... until even eating a literal poop sandwich sounds better than continuing to drag this out and having to sleep next to the person you cannot stand anymore -- you are not ready to begin doing conflict resolution to clear the shit from your life. You will be tempted to keep avoiding doing your conflict resolution.

Sometimes I see avoidy dance that way in polyshipping.
"It's great that polyamory means you don't have to get all your needs met with one person... you are free to be with others!"
misused as escapism from having to deal with the shit of a break up and deal with the fact that with THIS lover... things are over. Instead of facing it, the people let it drag on and on and "pad the distance" between themselves with dating other people. Not facing shit? That's bad for spiritual health.

"The Freedom of No Escape" is by Geoffrey Shugen Arnold. He said, "Zazen is to sit in the midst of the entire universe with every gate open. ... to see that there is no escape is the beginning of true liberation."

For polyshipping article? I think that means to know that while you do have (the option of having other partners in polyshipping) -- to see that there is no escape from dealing with (the shit between you and THIS lover) is the beginning of true freedom from (the shit between you and this lover.) When you can finally see and accept that you cannot avoid it no matter how much you try so you may as well just solve it? THEN you starting on the path to finally being free of it.

The author is calling the reader to focus on the thing to hand. You (the reader) do not detach, run away, numb yourself from the pain, try to escape from dealing with the shit between you and this lover by flinging yourself into new relationships to "bandaid" feeling yucky about your problems with the NRE high.

The only way to actually (be free from the shit) is to (solve the shit) one way or another.

Originally Posted by JaneQSmythe
Telling someone that they MUST fuck when they are filled with hate and fear?
I don't think the author is suggesting we literally share sex with people we are angry with.

The author is asking the reader to be willing to pay the short term price of "feeling yucky while doing conflict resolution" so the reader can move on to long term better spiritual health. That is the "sacrifice" the author is calling the reader to make -- "stop avoiding feeling yucky. Go ahead -- be willing to feel yucky. Do the job in front of you even if it does feel yucky to do, even if it means breaking up with the person."

I call this "know when to hang up your hat. Accept." The thing will not fly here any more.

But I can see where it could be interpreted that way. This author enjoys speaking in koan style metaphors and analogies. Odyseuss (Greek) and Kundalini (Sanskrit) in the same metaphor -- sigh. I like reading koans -- but even for me that's getting too much.

Just drives up the word count while confusing readers.


Last edited by GalaGirl; 01-21-2014 at 05:33 AM.
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