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  #11  
Old 12-13-2013, 03:14 PM
SheepMusketeer SheepMusketeer is offline
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Hi GalaGirl -- thank you for your supportive words and helpful questions.

I know that I am protecting myself as much as I feel I'm protecting my husband when I keep my feelings from him. I don't like feeling that I have hurt him or feeling that I have contributed to his feelings of insecurity. At the same time I do, deep down, understand that I'm going to have to be more open if I am to fully gain his trust.

Our conversations over the summer felt very up and down and emotional, and it drained us both. There'd be times when we'd talk for hours, cry our hearts out and both feel like we'd made progress in understanding each other. Then we'd be apart for a couple of weeks and he'd start bringing up the same old questions once again and I would feel frustrated at having to give the same answers.

I told him of how I had fallen for someone about a year ago. To me it was a positive story, of how I could love someone else and yet not lose the love I had for M. But to M it seemed to fuel his insecurity that he was not enough for me. And then recently (in October) I told M I had fallen for D, who I now work with. I was up-front with this from the beginning, but M told me that it hurt him very deeply and he was struggling to cope with his feelings. So now, I try not to talk about the time I spend with D because I don't want M to feel upset about it and work himself up over it. At the same time, it's making me more and more miserable that I can't express my emotions to the person who is supposed to be closest to me.

Is it not being cruel, to speak openly about someone I love, who I see almost every day at work and can share little moments with, to a long-distance partner who would love to have those moments with me but cannot? Holding things back is my way of protecting M from feeling pain.

Last week I was in Copenhagen and shared a taxi from the airport with another stranded passenger. We got along well and he ended up inviting me to his hotel room. I declined, but enjoyed the attention and found the situation amusing. When I told M about it, the conversation turned very awkward in a way I hadn't expected - he felt threatened by this man even though I had turned down the offer. How could I possibly admit that, in an ideal world, I would have quite liked to accept the offer? Wouldn't being honest like this make M feel even more insecure?

I would love to hear any thoughts you have about whether I should be trying to be honest more often, even when I feel it would be hurtful. It is hard to know whether it might make things work out better for the long term or not.
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  #12  
Old 12-13-2013, 06:27 PM
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kdt26417 kdt26417 is offline
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I suppose you'll have to open up to M a little at a time, checking his temperature to be sure he's not "too overwhelmed" (open to interpretation).

Any idea if/how long before the long-distance factor will be removed? Doesn't sound very fun.

Re (from SheepMusketeer):
Quote:
"Thanks for your reply too. And please let me know if this thread is better moved to a different section of the website."
As far as I know this section is fine. Worst case scenario, the mods could probably move it (which wouldn't affect anyone's access to it).
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  #13  
Old 12-13-2013, 07:03 PM
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Inyourendo Inyourendo is offline
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My experience with my ex of 11 years is that 2 years into our relationship he wanted to have sex with another woman he had met. I agrees and this started our poly life. BUT I wasn't allowed to date men. I also was not allowed to have a girlfriend on my own. So he could date, I couldnt unless I could find someone for a triad (not something I wanted) years of begging for a girlfriendand some.affairs on the aide I.finally had enough sneaking to get what I wanted or having constant fights about it.

For me the desire to be free was more important
Than my marriage with him.
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  #14  
Old 12-13-2013, 07:56 PM
GalaGirl GalaGirl is offline
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Quote:
I would love to hear any thoughts you have about whether I should be trying to be honest more often, even when I feel it would be hurtful. ]It is hard to know whether it might make things work out better for the long term or not.
Yes. If you want to be open and honest you, play ball. BE (open and honest you.)

I do not see how you being LESS than honest helps things work out better in the long term in your shared relationship.
I do not see how you being LESS than honest helps you achieve your desired outcome of "Emotional honesty -- that is what I want most" either.

What are you afraid of if you are open, honest you? Can you fill in the blanks?
"I am not able to express myself honestly because then I would have to do __(what?)______?"
  • Take a risk?
  • BE honest?
  • Feel vulnerable?
  • Something else?

Or is it response from him that you fear?
"I am not able to express myself honestly because then I would have to deal with him doing ___(what?)_____? "
  • he will say he no longer wants to participate in relationship with you?
  • Him ask you to do ____ or not do ____?
  • Crying?
  • Something else?

You guys are either open and honest or not.

The relationship is long haul or not.

Putting off being honest for fear of finding out you are not actually compatible in what relationship model you want to practice together serves you HOW?

I do not see how sticking around for a less than honest relationship is great for EITHER of you.
  • To me it sounds like you ultimately want to participate in an (open relationship model where you are both polysexual and polyamorous.)
  • To me it sounds like he wants to be (participate in a monoship with just you) or maybe an (open relationship where you are monoamorous to each other but polysexual.)

You guys could clear that up rather than put it off.

You mentioned jealousy... I do not know if reading any of these together help get an honest convo going between you so you can sort yourselves out. If you both have a hard time articulating, maybe having something to look at and go "Yes, I feel that... no I don't feel that" helps?

http://www.cat-and-dragon.com/stef/p.../jealousy.html
http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/im...ed_10-6-10.pdf

GL!
Galagirl

Last edited by GalaGirl; 12-14-2013 at 01:58 AM.
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  #15  
Old 12-13-2013, 10:08 PM
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idealist idealist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SheepMusketeer View Post
If I have sex, I want it to be with people to whom I have formed some kind of attachment and have a personal connection with, and that seems much more unlikely in a swinging sort of scenario.
In my experience, there are many couples and singles in the swinger community that are looking for personal connections. There is an assumption that is made about swingers which is simply not true in reality.

I actually think getting into the swinger community could be advantageous to you as a couple and help him begin to open up to the entire idea of poly.

I have introduced at least a dozen people (men and women) to the idea of a non-monogamous lifestyle. Some people take to it very naturally....others have more difficulty.

The one thing that I have seen turn people around (it works well with guys) is giving them the opportunity to have some spontaneous multi partner sexual experiences. (safe sex of course). You can talk about things for years, but there is nothing like an actual stimulating sexual experience to turn a person around!

In order to help my primary partner move past the initial doubt (which may have never dissipated since he is so emotional), I organized a string of dates with other couples and private house parties with up to 5 couples in attendance.

It is relatively easy for a female to organize these events. It is, however not as easy for a male to do so. I realized that if I was going to wait for him to find his way into the lifestyle- it was never going to happen because he is a shy guy and wouldn't have made anything happen.

We got right through any doubts he might have had and we are now fully committed to a non-monogamous lifestyle!!

In the process, we have met some people that are interested in developing meaningful emotional connections!!
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Last edited by idealist; 12-13-2013 at 10:12 PM.
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  #16  
Old 12-15-2013, 01:19 AM
SheepMusketeer SheepMusketeer is offline
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Kevin: I'm not sure when we'll be living together again - maybe February. He's looking for a job in academia and they are hard to come by, but even if he doesn't find one he may move in with me to save money etc. This will come with its own issues - it's no fun sitting around at home looking for jobs and having your wife be the sole provider of a social life...

Most of our relationship has been long distance, so the dynamic of living together will be quite a change in itself.

Galagirl: thank you for making me think about those difficult questions. Here are some thoughts:
I am not able to express myself honestly because...
  • I will feel guilty for making him upset
  • I don't want to start an argument which may ruin the short time we have together in a weekend
  • I am scared that he will ask me not to see D any more if he knew how deeply I felt about him

The second point will be fixed by us spending time together over Christmas. Although it's not ideal to have difficult conversations in the midst of family, I intend to have some anyway.

As I said, we had lots of conversations over the summer about open relationships, how we might make it work, what boundaries we might need to have, what his insecurities were, our fantasies of being with others, what I saw an ideal relationship as being like,... So I do feel that most of the difficult stuff is already out there. But, as you say, my own desires have changed from wanting to be polysexual to wanting to be polyamorous, which is quite a different ball game. We're going to have to talk about that again and see where we stand on it. (I think he will struggle very much with this.)

Thanks very much for those articles on jealousy. They are incredibly helpful and I hope I can get M to read them. (I previously showed him a copy of The Ethical Slut that a friend had lent me, and he was reluctant to read it. Said that the title put him off!)

Idealist: Thanks for your perspective on swinging. At the moment I think that I'd be more reluctant to try this than M! When people talk about swinging, do they generally mean:
  • Having sex as a foursome
  • Having sex individually with other people, but in the same room
  • Having sex individually with other people, but maybe in different rooms in the same house?
I think the third option I could do, but I'd feel really awkward doing things together...

I have already pushed M to find other sexual partners, with the hope that he would realise sex with others could be fun and non-threatening to our relationship. He did meet with a few people and had sex with one, and though he told me about it I think he still felt uncomfortable. Hopefully once we live together, I can encourage him again, and being able to come home and talk to me about it afterwards will help him get over the mental hurdles.

Inyourendo: Thanks for telling your story. I hope you've found the life you've wanted since leaving your marriage.
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  #17  
Old 12-15-2013, 01:54 AM
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kdt26417 kdt26417 is offline
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Quote:
"When people talk about swinging, do they generally mean:
  • having sex as a foursome,
  • having sex individually with other people, but in the same room,
  • having sex individually with other people, but maybe in different rooms in the same house?"
From what I've heard, it's any or all of the above. The main thing about swing being the sharing of sex (as a single or with persons outside the couple) without the danger of falling in love (with said persons). There are also swing clubs but I hesitate to describe them in detail as I've no experience there.

Sounds like the thing to do for now is to cool it on poly until February or so. Of course you can still learn more about poly (and swing) in the meantime.
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  #18  
Old 12-15-2013, 03:33 AM
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idealist idealist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SheepMusketeer View Post
Idealist: Thanks for your perspective on swinging. At the moment I think that I'd be more reluctant to try this than M! When people talk about swinging, do they generally mean:
  • Having sex as a foursome
  • Having sex individually with other people, but in the same room
  • Having sex individually with other people, but maybe in different rooms in the same house?
I think the third option I could do, but I'd feel really awkward doing things together...
There are so many more scenarios than those three things that you listed. And couples generally make it up as they go along so whether you want to do things together or seperately is completely up to you! That is the great thing about the lifestyle!!
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  #19  
Old 12-15-2013, 03:20 PM
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Magdlyn Magdlyn is offline
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Ugh, the idea of going swinging with my male partner to show him sex outside the mono couple is fun, just grosses me out. To each their own. I just don't care much for group sex, or sex with strangers, or sex without some kind of conversation/affection/non-sexual interaction first.

That said, welcome to the board, SheepMusketeer.

I feel for you. I was with a very jealous man for over 30 years (married for most of it). I knew deep down I wasn't cut out for monogamy when I married him, but it was 1978, the only non mono model I had was swinging, so I committed to monogamy.

However, we didn't have productive talks about my non mono proclitivities until about 1996. !!! I just always felt evil and sluttish when I got crushes on people, or more than crushes. (I never out and out cheated, but man, did I want to...)

And like your h and the taxi story, my ex would also get jealous over little incidents like that. Once I told him a story about a man going to China to pick up his newly adopted daughter, who was next to me on a plane. A human interest story, I thought. My (now ex) husband got all jealous just that I talked to him and that his story of the adoption touched my heart! Ridiculous things like that would happen regularly.

So, like you, I tried to hide my crushes to protect his feelings. But it didn't work. He was always looking for ways to be jealous, because of his low self esteem. He'd even deny ever being interested in another woman, just to "set a good example," even though it was a lie. This all came out in therapy eventually, but it did no good. We broke up in 2008. We tried polyamory before breaking up, and he found a woman (in 1999), and transferred most of his loving feelings to her. Mono to the core, I guess. She moved to be near him once he moved out of our marital home, and they are still together.

Bless your hearts, getting married with these obstacles to a happy union! Not even living together! You realizing you're not just polysexual, but polyamorous! You finding this man at work, and being with him every day while your new husband is so far away!

Best of luck with the difficult conversations over the holidays. I hope my experience can be a cautionary tale.
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  #20  
Old 12-15-2013, 03:59 PM
Spock Spock is offline
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Sounds tough for the husband. I'm hoping you are being compassionate here?

He's facing three really big life changes and probably needs a lot of emotional compassion:
1) Finding a job; then keeping it
2) Moving in with you and renegotiating your living standards
3) Renegotiating your marriage agreement

On too of that he's trying to date again.

You have to struggle with your own sense of self and worth when finding a job; and again when you're dating, and again when you're trying to open up the marriage.

Have you considered slowing down? It seems fair to ask.
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