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  #11  
Old 12-03-2013, 05:14 AM
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SchrodingersCat SchrodingersCat is offline
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Are female condoms an option? I'm assuming it's only putting a condom on his penis that affects his ED.
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  #12  
Old 12-05-2013, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dana View Post
It's so convoluted. I don't really *know* why enough to speak on his behalf. After the fact, he said he'd only have sex with condoms with others, but in the past he's lied about it and I can't take the chance with the health of others. It is, what is is. I had hoped we could regain the sexual part of our marriage and the health of the marriage in general, but it's not looking like that will happen. In the meantime, we are still friends enough to raise our kids, share finances, and be supportive of one another. I wouldn't say it's a happy arrangement, but it is functioning for now.
Why not be sexual without PIV sex? so many other things you can do.
I understand that the fact he lied about it is probably a major issue here, but... I always wonder why the PIV is so important to many people..
New bf and I have been seeing each other for months now and haven't had PIV sex, and I kind of doubt we ever will, because he has ED with condoms also, and I won't have sex without one. But we're still having tons of fun ...
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  #13  
Old 12-05-2013, 07:02 AM
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Whilst I may not have PIV sex every time, I wouldn't be happy taking it off the table altogether. There is something magic about it.
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  #14  
Old 12-05-2013, 07:08 AM
london london is offline
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I still don't understand why you can't trust your partner to sleep with people who adhere to safer sex practices. People who have negative test results and use condoms with other people. Don't you trust his judgement? Do you think he would have barrier free sex with someone who he isn't sure about? If so, that is your issue. I'd forget the poly thing altogether and work on establishing trust and respect.

If that was my partner, I'd be okay with him fluid bonding with people who met our criteria for STD prevention. That would mean my partner can only have anal or PIV sex with people he has known for some time and who would be willing to chat with us about how we do things and the importance of all of us adhering to the rules. It must be very difficult for him to think he can never have PIV with anyone other than his wife or give up sex with her and he must desperately try and find loopholes.

Last edited by london; 12-05-2013 at 07:14 AM.
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  #15  
Old 12-06-2013, 01:30 AM
bofish bofish is offline
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In Dana's case, it sounds like it might be a large issue than PIV sex. I would not want to have a relationship with someone who didn't use condoms because I see that behavior as self-destructive.
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  #16  
Old 12-06-2013, 03:48 AM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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Everyone's level of comfort is going to be different and should be respected. That said, make sure you understand the real dangers and not just what you think they are. For instance, at one time I was worried that my partner's partner, who's a sex worker, was at risk from having unprotected oral sex with people whose STI statuses she didn't necessarily know.

Then I actually looked up rates for transmission for various STIs via oral sex, and discovered that the things that can be easily passed on are curable, and the things that are incurable and scary (AIDS!) are virtually impossible to catch via oral unless you have an open, bleeding wound in your mouth, and even then are difficult to transmit. That left HPV and herpes, both of which ARE easy-ish to transmit via oral and ARE incurable. HPV was no big deal to me -- I've already had it, and am vaccinated against the other strains.

So I had to decide, was I scared of the one thing left, herpes? Did I consider that risk an acceptable risk? I did a lot of reading, and eventually decided that it was a risk I was taking already, constantly, with other partners, and that it wasn't actually that big of a deal (basically, in healthy people, an occasional skin condition in an embarrassing place). I surprised myself with that way of looking at something that had always freaked me out so much in theory -- in the end, the big scary monster just wasn't particularly scary.

All of that info, combined with knowing my partner's partner's safer sex practices (talking to clients, always using barriers for PIV and PIA, and getting tested every three months) led to something I never would have expected a year ago -- I'm now fluid-bound with someone who's also fluid-bound with a full-service sex worker, and I'm not worried at all (and I'm a chronic worrier!).

Anyway, that's one person's story of facing the question of safe sex vs. fun sex and making an informed decision. If my decision had gone in a different way, or if yours does, that's ok too, as long as you've really considered it and end up with something you're comfortable with. It was hugely important to me that I be able to make a free, unpressured choice. My partner made no secret that he was interested in fluid-bonding. I, in turn, made it clear to him that that option would be OFF the table if I felt like it was something I *had* to do to make him happy. You can't think clearly under pressure.

One more thing, fluid-bonding is no light matter to me. I've seen other people say things above like "can't you just trust your partner to have un-barriered sex with people they've known for a while and feel comfortable with and who use good practices"? I think that's unfair. With every single non-monogamous person who's added to your circle of fluid-sharing, your risks increase exponentially. That's just math. It's ok to be worried about it. It's ok to be careful. It's ok to not want too many people to be in that circle with you. It's ok to not want ANY to be in there with you!

In the end, safer sex CAN be very, very fun sex. There are a million and one things you can do that involve minimal risk and that bring pleasure and connection. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
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  #17  
Old 12-06-2013, 04:21 AM
london london is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bofish View Post
In Dana's case, it sounds like it might be a large issue than PIV sex. I would not want to have a relationship with someone who didn't use condoms because I see that behavior as self-destructive.
If he puts a condom on, he loses his erection and can't have sex at all.
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  #18  
Old 12-06-2013, 04:47 AM
london london is offline
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Originally Posted by london View Post
If he puts a condom on, he loses his erection and can't have sex at all.
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One more thing, fluid-bonding is no light matter to me.
Who is it a light matter for?

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I've seen other people say things above like "can't you just trust your partner to have un-barriered sex with people they've known for a while and feel comfortable with and who use good practices"? I think that's unfair
.

You think it's unfair to ask someone if they can trust their partner's judgement? Or do you think it's unfair to suppose the average person would like to avoid STDs? Or do you think it's unfair that this guy has ED and despite being in a poly relationship, is expected to never have PIV sex again with anyone other than his wife, even if new person is less of an STD risk than Wifey?

Quote:
With every single non-monogamous person who's added to your circle of fluid-sharing, your risks increase exponentially. That's just math.
Let's say wife is only fluid bonded with hubby, sleeps with three other people regularly using condoms. Newcomer is only fluid bonded with hubby, sleeps with three other people with condoms. Both require negative STD results from all sexual partners before PIV with a condom. Both, or all people are at risk of one of newcomer or Wifey's other partners contracting an STD from their other partners between tests and transmitting it to them despite the use of condoms. Is it okay if Wifey was the one who let the cooties in? is it only bad if newcomer does?

If there are ten people who practice safer sex methods and three people that don't really adhere to them, the ten people are less likely to pass on STDs. So no, less people doesn't always equal safer.
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It's ok to be worried about it. It's ok to be careful. It's ok to not want too many people to be in that circle with you. It's ok to not want ANY to be in there with you!
Agreed. But this OP should recognise that in this instance, an inability to trust her husband may spell the end of her marriage. She already gave him the choice of sex with her or sex with others, and he chose others. That says a lot. If I was her and wanted to get things back on track, I would be thinking seriously about what compromise we can make so I am still protected from STDs but he gets to have full relationships with everyone he is involved with.
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  #19  
Old 12-06-2013, 05:10 AM
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AnnabelMore AnnabelMore is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by london View Post
Who is it a light matter for?
Lots of people. If that weren't true, we wouldn't have the STI problems that we do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by london View Post
You think it's unfair to ask someone if they can trust their partner's judgement? Or do you think it's unfair to suppose the average person would like to avoid STDs? Or do you think it's unfair that this guy has ED and despite being in a poly relationship, is expected to never have PIV sex again with anyone other than his wife, even if new person is less of an STD risk than Wifey?
I meant exactly what I said.

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Originally Posted by london View Post
Let's say wife is only fluid bonded with hubby, sleeps with three other people regularly using condoms. Newcomer is only fluid bonded with hubby, sleeps with three other people with condoms. Both require negative STD results from all sexual partners before PIV with a condom. Both, or all people are at risk of one of newcomer or Wifey's other partners contracting an STD from their other partners between tests and transmitting it to them despite the use of condoms. Is it okay if Wifey was the one who let the cooties in? is it only bad if newcomer does?
I don't see the point of inventing elaborate what-if scenarios and addressing them as if we actually had that level of info about the situation. And I find your questions facetious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by london View Post
If there are ten people who practice safer sex methods and three people that don't really adhere to them, the ten people are less likely to pass on STDs. So no, less people doesn't always equal safer.
Saying "more people means more risk" is not the same as saying "less people always equals safer". You can take my words to mean "more people means more risk, all other things being equal".

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Originally Posted by london View Post
Agreed. But this OP should recognise that in this instance, an inability to trust her husband may spell the end of her marriage. She already gave him the choice of sex with her or sex with others, and he chose others. That says a lot. If I was her and wanted to get things back on track, I would be thinking seriously about what compromise we can make so I am still protected from STDs but he gets to have full relationships with everyone he is involved with.
Dana, to whom you've been referring, was not the OP.

Not having PIV doesn't make something less than a full relationship.
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  #20  
Old 12-06-2013, 05:28 AM
london london is offline
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Many, many people feel that having something they want to do prohibited by someone else prevents them enjoying a full relationship with someone else. It doesn't matter if it's PIV sex or going to the cinema.

You may find my questions facetious but they are totally valid. Unusually, it is the wife who is losing her relationship here, it is in her interests to look at the situation objectively and consider what risks who presents and how they compare to her metamours. Overall, she should be thinking of ways to lower risk and allow everyone to have sex with their partners.
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